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With: Reimagining the Way You Relate to God
Stop Living Your Life Under, Over, From and For God and Start Living in Communion With Him.
207 pages, Paperback
First published August 23, 2011
916 people are currently reading
4,511 people want to read
About the author
Skye Jethani
28Ìýbooks380ÌýfollowersSKYE JETHANI is an author, speaker, consultant and ordained pastor. He also serves as the co-host of the popular Phil Vischer Podcast, a weekly show that blends astute cultural and theological insights with comical conversation. He has been a sought after consultant for groups facing challenges at the intersection of faith and culture like The Lausanne Movement, The White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, and the Interfaith Youth Core. Skye has authored three books, The Divine Commodity: Discovering a Faith Beyond Consumer Christianity, WITH: Reimagining the Way You Relate to God, and Futureville. Skye and his wife Amanda have three children: Zoe, Isaac, and Lucy and reside in Wheaton, IL.
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April 29, 2012
The Barna group recently did an extensive survey and found that the youth are leaving the church. What has previously happened is that they then come back when they get married and have children, however, that trend doesn’t seem to be happening. Nothing we didn’t previously know! But they identified several reasons why. One of which is that their experience of Christianity is shallow and another is that the churches seem overprotective.
This book may well present something of a solution for these issues.
Skye Jethani, editor of Leadership Journal, in this book makes an interesting observation: he sees all religions are based on the idea that the world is a dangerous place. Because it is a dangerous place, this leads to fear. We want to protect ourselves, so this means some sort of control. However, control leads to conflict and so more danger. This may explain why churches want to protect. All religion, Jethani claims is some sort of control based on fear.
In different ways we try and control God. This leads to four postures. In the first half of the book Jethani explains these four postures. Each of the postures contain an element of truth but are parasitic on the truth of the Gospel. But many are passing them off as gospel, which may be why the experience of Christianity for many is shallow.
The first posture is life under God. The best way to maintain control is to try and control the God who created the world. This posture looks to rituals and morality to do that. If we do the right things then God will cooperate. If we obey, God will bless.
It’s the drop the virgin in the volcano approach to religion. We adhere to the rules and rituals, but God won’t cooperate. Christianity then doesn’t seem to work.
The second posture is life over God. In this posture we don’t need to follow divine commands, rituals or morality, we don’t even need God we can get control through science, through laws and principles. The more extreme version of this posture is atheism � we can take God out of the picture. A god-version is deism, god is a clockmaker � he’s set the world up so now it runs according to laws.
For Christians who adopt this posture the principles in the Bible, rather than science, can give us control and help us find success. What happens is that we then have a relationship not with the God of the Bible but with the Bible as god.
Life from God is the third posture. This is perhaps the most popular today, it sees the issue as unmet desires and pleasures. It’s a consumerist gospel, a gospel that’s all about me. God is there to give us our needs and desires, to give us what we want.
We’ve made God into a divine butler or a divine cosmic therapist.
What happens to Christians who adopt this posture when God doesn’t meet our desires? They walk away form the shallow alternative to the gospel, mistakenly thinking that they have tried the real thing.
The fourth posture reverses this approach � rather than life from God it’s life for God. It puts mission or transformation at the centre. God doesn’t exist for us; we exist to serve God. We need to figure out what God’s purpose is for us and do more for God. The more we do for God the better we feel about ourselves.
Jethani points out have produced an activist generation � we want to end world poverty, we want to reach the lost, we want to go out on the streets to heal, we want to see people saved, we want to see culture transformed. But why are we doing it? We are driven not out of compassion but out of a search for significance.
This is a brilliant analysis of false gospels often promulgated as the Gospel. It is no longer people’s experience of Christianity is so shallow � they have been inoculated against the truth.
The second part of the book looks at the posture of the Gospel: life with God.
In all the other postures we use God to achieve some end: it may be success, wealth or it may be significance. But once we get a revelation of who Jesus is � we no longer want to use God. He isn’t the means to an end � he is the end, He’s the beginning and the end, the all and in all.
I found the first half of the book fascinating and insightful � the second less so, it’s hard to write about how we can get a revelation of God, it’s something that’s ‘caught rather than taught�. This is an important book. It may well change your view of God and the Gospel.
This book may well present something of a solution for these issues.
Skye Jethani, editor of Leadership Journal, in this book makes an interesting observation: he sees all religions are based on the idea that the world is a dangerous place. Because it is a dangerous place, this leads to fear. We want to protect ourselves, so this means some sort of control. However, control leads to conflict and so more danger. This may explain why churches want to protect. All religion, Jethani claims is some sort of control based on fear.
In different ways we try and control God. This leads to four postures. In the first half of the book Jethani explains these four postures. Each of the postures contain an element of truth but are parasitic on the truth of the Gospel. But many are passing them off as gospel, which may be why the experience of Christianity for many is shallow.
The first posture is life under God. The best way to maintain control is to try and control the God who created the world. This posture looks to rituals and morality to do that. If we do the right things then God will cooperate. If we obey, God will bless.
It’s the drop the virgin in the volcano approach to religion. We adhere to the rules and rituals, but God won’t cooperate. Christianity then doesn’t seem to work.
The second posture is life over God. In this posture we don’t need to follow divine commands, rituals or morality, we don’t even need God we can get control through science, through laws and principles. The more extreme version of this posture is atheism � we can take God out of the picture. A god-version is deism, god is a clockmaker � he’s set the world up so now it runs according to laws.
For Christians who adopt this posture the principles in the Bible, rather than science, can give us control and help us find success. What happens is that we then have a relationship not with the God of the Bible but with the Bible as god.
Life from God is the third posture. This is perhaps the most popular today, it sees the issue as unmet desires and pleasures. It’s a consumerist gospel, a gospel that’s all about me. God is there to give us our needs and desires, to give us what we want.
We’ve made God into a divine butler or a divine cosmic therapist.
What happens to Christians who adopt this posture when God doesn’t meet our desires? They walk away form the shallow alternative to the gospel, mistakenly thinking that they have tried the real thing.
The fourth posture reverses this approach � rather than life from God it’s life for God. It puts mission or transformation at the centre. God doesn’t exist for us; we exist to serve God. We need to figure out what God’s purpose is for us and do more for God. The more we do for God the better we feel about ourselves.
Jethani points out have produced an activist generation � we want to end world poverty, we want to reach the lost, we want to go out on the streets to heal, we want to see people saved, we want to see culture transformed. But why are we doing it? We are driven not out of compassion but out of a search for significance.
This is a brilliant analysis of false gospels often promulgated as the Gospel. It is no longer people’s experience of Christianity is so shallow � they have been inoculated against the truth.
The second part of the book looks at the posture of the Gospel: life with God.
In all the other postures we use God to achieve some end: it may be success, wealth or it may be significance. But once we get a revelation of who Jesus is � we no longer want to use God. He isn’t the means to an end � he is the end, He’s the beginning and the end, the all and in all.
I found the first half of the book fascinating and insightful � the second less so, it’s hard to write about how we can get a revelation of God, it’s something that’s ‘caught rather than taught�. This is an important book. It may well change your view of God and the Gospel.
October 15, 2021
I am a fan of Skye Jethani from his work on the Holy Post Podcast, so when I found this book hanging out in a used bookstore, I jumped on that. This book is EXCELLENT and has transformed my view of the Christian life. I see the four ways of relating to God far too often in the church. In the back of the book Jethani has included several practices for living WITH God. I love the blend of tradition and contemporary practices that Jethani champions. This book is practical, intelligent, worshipful, and accessible. Highly recommend.
November 20, 2018
Oh man. Add this to my “If you identify as a Christian, read this right now� list. So so sooooo good.
July 19, 2023
This book was an unexpected find for me at a used bookstore that has turned into what I feel is the most important book I have read in a while.
In the book, different postures of approaching and relating to God are covered:
� Life Under God
� Life Over God
� Life From God
� Life For God
� Life With God
I could relate often to each one in some aspects. For example, the “life from God� posture very much reminded me of my years stuck in false teaching such as seeking for one’s own fulfillment or gifts from God as the prosperity gospel wrongly promotes. Likewise, a passion to somehow live an extraordinary life for God fulfilling His mission that is rooted in fear can leave us finding our worth in what we do versus being His.
Ultimately, the posture of “life with God� is the one that we as believers are called to in doing life with Him through communion with Him. Appendix 1 was a huge help in finishing the book with some practical application.
My favorite section was when the book covered the topic of prayer specifically regarding communication to God versus communion with God (pp. 112-114).
Above all, I highly recommend this book to be moved to the top of your TBR! It is truly an eye-opener and I took so many notes!
In the book, different postures of approaching and relating to God are covered:
� Life Under God
� Life Over God
� Life From God
� Life For God
� Life With God
I could relate often to each one in some aspects. For example, the “life from God� posture very much reminded me of my years stuck in false teaching such as seeking for one’s own fulfillment or gifts from God as the prosperity gospel wrongly promotes. Likewise, a passion to somehow live an extraordinary life for God fulfilling His mission that is rooted in fear can leave us finding our worth in what we do versus being His.
Ultimately, the posture of “life with God� is the one that we as believers are called to in doing life with Him through communion with Him. Appendix 1 was a huge help in finishing the book with some practical application.
My favorite section was when the book covered the topic of prayer specifically regarding communication to God versus communion with God (pp. 112-114).
Above all, I highly recommend this book to be moved to the top of your TBR! It is truly an eye-opener and I took so many notes!
January 23, 2024
I recently heard about this book while at church and piqued my interest. Especially, when I realized the author is the cohost of the podcast: the Holy Post. The other host is Phil Vischer the creator of the popular Veggie Tales cartoons.
Mr. Jethani talked about 4 postures:
1) life under God
2) life over God
3) life from God
4) life for God
These positions are about how to use God and in the process make us the center.
And then he shares about the ultimate posture to live life with God.
"Stop Living Your Life Under, Over, From and For God and Start Living in Communion With Him."
Mr. Jethani talked about 4 postures:
1) life under God
2) life over God
3) life from God
4) life for God
These positions are about how to use God and in the process make us the center.
And then he shares about the ultimate posture to live life with God.
"Stop Living Your Life Under, Over, From and For God and Start Living in Communion With Him."
Audiobook source: Hoopla
Narrator: Larry Wayne
Length: 5H 42M
December 13, 2022
update: I reread this one today. And it was only 4 stars this time. I am not sure why it didn't resonate with me like it did last time.
============================
This is Nonfiction/Christian/Religion. When I finished this one, I thought about it for a bit and then started it again. There were a few points of doctrine where we didn't agree, but the over all message with this book is definitely 5 star worthy. I loved the focus. And yes, I'd still read this one again....so 5 stars.
============================
This is Nonfiction/Christian/Religion. When I finished this one, I thought about it for a bit and then started it again. There were a few points of doctrine where we didn't agree, but the over all message with this book is definitely 5 star worthy. I loved the focus. And yes, I'd still read this one again....so 5 stars.
June 20, 2023
Jethani gives an overview of how people (genuine believers, nominal Christians, and secular agnostics) relate to God, then proposes what a life of intimacy with God should look like. His reminders were good and fairly accurate, but the practical applications were only flushed out in a short appendix.
In short, he's reminding us of the value of prayer and how communion with God (not works or gifts) is the ultimate goal of the Christian faith.
In short, he's reminding us of the value of prayer and how communion with God (not works or gifts) is the ultimate goal of the Christian faith.
May 29, 2022
A fantastic read. I was definitely challenged in the way I relate to God, and could see myself in a bit of all the wrong ways to relate to God which he mentioned in the first half of the book. I liked what the guy said about the fact that life with God is communion with him. It’s talking to him all throughout the day like a constant conversation. It’s always being aware of his presence. It’s also encouraging to remember that God is our hope! Life lived with him is the only true fulfilment. Definitely have some big takeaway points after reading this! Would recommend.
June 5, 2019
This book discusses four different "postures" that people often use when relating to God -- over, under, from, and for -- all of which have elements of truth to them, but ultimately result in people trying to curry favor with God in order to receive something from him. Parts of this reminded me of , by Tim Keller. I can see ways in which I've subscribed to parts of all of these views at different times in my life, often without thinking too much about it. Sometimes this can be obvious, but other times not so much.
Jethani argues that our need for religion comes from living in a world of fear and uncertainty, and a desire for some semblance of control. In that sense, it's natural to want to relate to God, but often this becomes simply a way for us to try and manipulate him.
The concept of "with" helps to open up a more eternal perspective on how we relate to God. Someday, natural laws, moral rules, physical needs, and missional acts (that the other four postures revolve around) will be obsolete. From a spiritual perspective, this book calls us to aim for something greater, not by shaming or guilting, but by painting a picture of eternal things: faith, hope, love. Ultimately, the reader is encouraged to *commune* with God, not merely communicate. Appendix A gives some suggestions on prayer and meditation based on centuries of Christian history -- as someone from a "low church" background, this was particularly helpful to me.
Jethani argues that our need for religion comes from living in a world of fear and uncertainty, and a desire for some semblance of control. In that sense, it's natural to want to relate to God, but often this becomes simply a way for us to try and manipulate him.
The concept of "with" helps to open up a more eternal perspective on how we relate to God. Someday, natural laws, moral rules, physical needs, and missional acts (that the other four postures revolve around) will be obsolete. From a spiritual perspective, this book calls us to aim for something greater, not by shaming or guilting, but by painting a picture of eternal things: faith, hope, love. Ultimately, the reader is encouraged to *commune* with God, not merely communicate. Appendix A gives some suggestions on prayer and meditation based on centuries of Christian history -- as someone from a "low church" background, this was particularly helpful to me.
January 5, 2019
The book is strong, fresh and insightful. It ended with a flurry of wonderful insights on God with us. Grateful to have read this.
May 4, 2024
I think this book is truly so good. I'd heard mixed reviews about the author and his views, so I really wasn't sure if I would agree with him, or learn anything at all. But I feel like I learned a lot. This read really challenges you to figure out what your relationship with God is like. And if it's even a relationship with Him, or a relationship under, over, from, or for Him, which is the entire view of the book.
A life under God is living under Him simply just so nothing bad will ever happen to you, for immunity to bad almost.
A life over God represents putting your views and what you want over what God and the Bible says.
A life from God is only following God for the rewards.
A life for God is for your own self validation, so you feel like you're doing good, rather than glorifying God.
A life WITH God, however, is living to glorify Him in any way you can. Whether it's planting seeds, watering seeds, or practicing the fruits of the spirit in your daily life. Being a listening ear, helping people who are struggling. It doesn't necessarily have to be something evangelistic. From that, you may receive peace and love to give.
That's a basic summary of the book, but I would recommend you read and think about your personal relationship with God as you go. See what examples you relate to and see where you can grow. So glad this was recommended to me!
A life under God is living under Him simply just so nothing bad will ever happen to you, for immunity to bad almost.
A life over God represents putting your views and what you want over what God and the Bible says.
A life from God is only following God for the rewards.
A life for God is for your own self validation, so you feel like you're doing good, rather than glorifying God.
A life WITH God, however, is living to glorify Him in any way you can. Whether it's planting seeds, watering seeds, or practicing the fruits of the spirit in your daily life. Being a listening ear, helping people who are struggling. It doesn't necessarily have to be something evangelistic. From that, you may receive peace and love to give.
That's a basic summary of the book, but I would recommend you read and think about your personal relationship with God as you go. See what examples you relate to and see where you can grow. So glad this was recommended to me!
October 11, 2024
"What brings a person value, significance, and hope is not what he does but with whom he does it."
- Skye Jethani
This line captures the entire argument of the book. From the start, he outlines four false postures toward God that are commonly found all around us (Life For God, Life Under God, Life From God, and Life Over God). Skye reveals how Christians are encumbered by these wrong postures and how Life With God is the only healthy posture. For the most part, these postures are criticized for taking an individual piece of Christianity and making it the focus. In contrast, Life With God puts God at the center of our faith from which everything else should follow. This book helped remind me that I am not in a religion but a relationship :)
- Skye Jethani
This line captures the entire argument of the book. From the start, he outlines four false postures toward God that are commonly found all around us (Life For God, Life Under God, Life From God, and Life Over God). Skye reveals how Christians are encumbered by these wrong postures and how Life With God is the only healthy posture. For the most part, these postures are criticized for taking an individual piece of Christianity and making it the focus. In contrast, Life With God puts God at the center of our faith from which everything else should follow. This book helped remind me that I am not in a religion but a relationship :)
June 26, 2024
This is a book I think every American Christian needs to read. I think of its impact as very similar to Gentle and Lowly in accomplishing a deep heart level correction in our understand of who God truly is. Jethani corrects four common ways we incorrectly and harmfully approach out relationship to God and casts an amazing vision for the solution of Life With God. And that is mainly what this book is about, casting vision for a life the treasures and sets it’s affections on God above all other things. I would have loved some more practical instructions on spiritual disciplines that accomplish this great vision. These instructions are not complete absent however, he does suggest some things to do which I think are a great starting point! But at the end of the day this book isn’t a to do list but rather an amazing case as to why life with God, true communion with God, is the key to experiencing God himself and the fullest life we are capable of experiencing this side of heaven.
Thanks for coming to me Ted Talk
Thanks for coming to me Ted Talk
August 14, 2024
quite possibly my new go-to book recommendation for anyone in/considering relationship with God. Jethani’s writing is earnest, compassionate, and compelling as he unpacks the commonly held ideas of life under, over, for, and from God within the Church—and offers up an alternative posture of life with God as God’s deeply beloved. 6/5.
November 1, 2023
Absolutely STUNNING book. We went through it with his videos from RightNow Media as well as a sermon series at church and a small group discussion afterwards. A really great look at how we are imagining God in our lives and how we relate to Him. I cannot recommend this book enough!
January 9, 2025
4.5 stars. This was encouraging, although I felt it could have done more practically at the conclusion.
November 25, 2020
A great read full of insight and practical application, thoughtfully and effectively communicated without a bunch of sensationalized writing. I have always appreciated Jethani's ability to communicate with diagrams. His Twitter feed has often been full of profound truths communicated in less than 280 characters and a great picture. This book was full of those gems and had some great commentary to accompany them throughout.
His ultimate premise, I loved. His descriptions of our typical approaches of theology and practice were illuminating and convicting. He spoke of how Christian practice often comes from four distinct postures: Life under God, Life from God, Life over God, or Life for God. However the best understanding and practice comes from a life WITH God.
In his first appendix in the back, he does admit that the book is largely about the "what" and not about the "how" and then offers some concise and helpful notes to that end. I prefer a conceptual read over a "how to" manual personally, so this didn't bother me. A great book to consider looking at if so much of your Christian practice feels a little "empty" or disempowered.
His ultimate premise, I loved. His descriptions of our typical approaches of theology and practice were illuminating and convicting. He spoke of how Christian practice often comes from four distinct postures: Life under God, Life from God, Life over God, or Life for God. However the best understanding and practice comes from a life WITH God.
In his first appendix in the back, he does admit that the book is largely about the "what" and not about the "how" and then offers some concise and helpful notes to that end. I prefer a conceptual read over a "how to" manual personally, so this didn't bother me. A great book to consider looking at if so much of your Christian practice feels a little "empty" or disempowered.
December 9, 2013
This book is now my intro book for one-on-one discipleship interactions. This book uncovers our tendency to approach our relation to God from a posture that has shades of truth but is, at the core, misleading and catastrophic. The author describes these false postures, living life FOR God, UNDER God, OVER God, or FROM God. He then discusses how Scripture clearly paints a picture of life WITH God. While the majority of the book is conceptual, he does conclude with some practical tips on how to pursue life WITH God.
This should be required reading!
This should be required reading!
May 9, 2018
Enjoyed the first half. Didn't feel like the rest of the book had much to say.
December 13, 2021
A great introduction to life in the kingdom.
November 19, 2022
Solid book! Really enjoyed learning about the different ways we relate to God. It made me constantly think of how I approach God and do life with him. This one will stick with me!
August 2, 2023
This book reshaped my view of striving to live for something to simply living with someone. There is just so must joy to be found in living with God when He is our greatest treasure. In an attempt to seek control over my fears in life I often find myself seeking God out for what He can do for me or feeling shameful that I'm not living my whole life for Him. This book talks about how we should instead have a posture of living with God. Knowing and experiencing Him still takes practice, but the focus of these practices is now on God not us. We can start with prayer, which is how we can experience this treasure right now. Next, we surrender all control to him because we have faith in a God who fully knows and loves us (how freeing right?). Lastly, we should attempt to fill every crevice of our existence with the life-giving love God has already surrounded us with.
Ya'll should read this! Especially applicable in my life as I am feeling the pressure of preparing to pursue a new direction and career (thanks for the recommendation Levi!).
Some of my favorite thought-provoking quotes:
"People who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there." - John Piper
"Hope is a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul."
"How could Paul say that love is greater than gifts, knowledge, faith, and service? Because love never ends."
"Identity is not something that can be fully revealed in this age, and it is not a quest that we can complete on our own. Identity is something that our Creator alone can bestow on us."
Ya'll should read this! Especially applicable in my life as I am feeling the pressure of preparing to pursue a new direction and career (thanks for the recommendation Levi!).
Some of my favorite thought-provoking quotes:
"People who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there." - John Piper
"Hope is a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul."
"How could Paul say that love is greater than gifts, knowledge, faith, and service? Because love never ends."
"Identity is not something that can be fully revealed in this age, and it is not a quest that we can complete on our own. Identity is something that our Creator alone can bestow on us."
April 5, 2022
This was brilliant. The primary thesis of the book is that life is supposed to be lived with God. Jethani goes about his argument in two ways, firstly, he addresses the ways in which people commonly relate to God (under, over, from and for) and shows their shortcomings. Secondly, he looks at what life with God looks like and why it is superior to any other form in which we could relate to God. For most people in my circles living over God, or under God isn't really something that happens. But living for God and from God are in many ways encouraged. Jethani's critique of these modes is enlightening and refreshing. He dispels the ideas that you aren't doing enough for God, or your faith isn't radical enough with the clear message that seeking to live for these things is hollow and unfulfilling. It is only when we live with God that we find the purpose and joy and of course as we do this we will do things for God but their source is true and pure.
Anyway that's a poor explanation of some brilliant ideas so just read it yourself. You'll be better for it.
Anyway that's a poor explanation of some brilliant ideas so just read it yourself. You'll be better for it.
July 23, 2023
This book was both simple and deeply encouraging. It was a beautiful reminder of the importance of living life with God versus living life from, above, under, and for Him. I felt challenged to find the same joy that the apostle Paul did in his relationship with the Lord and not what he did for Him. Paul was not able to do all that he did for the Lord out of duty, but deep love for the Lord that came from living life with Him. THIS BOOK WAS SO GOOD FOR MY SOUL
May 6, 2022
brilliant…every person who grew up in church needs to read this book.
Jethani walks through 4 different heart postures that people have toward God: Life Under God, Life Over God, Life From God, and Life From God. He illustrates How each one of these is a detrimental and unbiblical to interact with God. The Solution?
Life With God
really really Good!
Jethani walks through 4 different heart postures that people have toward God: Life Under God, Life Over God, Life From God, and Life From God. He illustrates How each one of these is a detrimental and unbiblical to interact with God. The Solution?
Life With God
really really Good!
Read
April 26, 2024Another book for seminary…I had been introduced to this book before and had a basic understanding of the 5 postures of how we relate to God. The book didn’t expand on that prior knowledge too much. But I think the concept is super interesting and it cultivates a strong desire to live life with God. May we all say yes to the invitation God gives to live life with Him because it is a beautiful thing!
July 15, 2023
This book is simple and not too long but it really spoke to me profoundly about the wrong ways we approach God/the faith and the simple way of communing with God. I felt like this correctly diagnosed so many things in my relationship with God and rather than shaming me it deeply encouraged me
December 31, 2023
One of the most impactful books I’ve read this year. Since the garden of Eden our relationship with Gid has been skewed. This book looks at 4 common approaches to relationship towards God “for, over, under and with) and explains why with God should be our desire and what we rest in.
June 26, 2024
Convicting - made me rethink about the ways I connect to God. I love how it talks about why the church and people are the way they are. This book explains why we’re not necessarily living in the freedom God intended us to live in.
July 14, 2023
Wow- so much here that makes complete sense to me that I never understood before. It helped me understand so much about how I was misunderstanding my connection to God which lead to some obvious frustrations. I would encourage anyone, especially someone raised in the church in America to read this book.
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