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Loeb Herodotus #1
The Histories
David Grene, one of the best known translators of the Greek classics, splendidly captures the peculiar quality of Herodotus, the father of history.
Here is the historian, investigating and judging what he has seen, heard, and read, and seeking out the true causes and consequences of the great deeds of the past. In his History , the war between the Greeks and Persians, the origins of their enmity, and all the more general features of the civilizations of the world of his day are seen as a unity and expressed as the vision of one man who as a child lived through the last of the great acts in this universal drama.
In Grene's remarkable translation and commentary, we see the historian as a storyteller, combining through his own narration the skeletal "historical" facts and the imaginative reality toward which his story reaches. Herodotus emerges in all his charm and complexity as a writer and the first historian in the Western tradition, perhaps unique in the way he has seen the interrelation of fact and fantasy.
Here is the historian, investigating and judging what he has seen, heard, and read, and seeking out the true causes and consequences of the great deeds of the past. In his History , the war between the Greeks and Persians, the origins of their enmity, and all the more general features of the civilizations of the world of his day are seen as a unity and expressed as the vision of one man who as a child lived through the last of the great acts in this universal drama.
In Grene's remarkable translation and commentary, we see the historian as a storyteller, combining through his own narration the skeletal "historical" facts and the imaginative reality toward which his story reaches. Herodotus emerges in all his charm and complexity as a writer and the first historian in the Western tradition, perhaps unique in the way he has seen the interrelation of fact and fantasy.
784 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 431
190 people are currently reading
2,668 people want to read
About the author
Herodotus
1,360听books752听followersHerodotus (Greek: 螚蚁蠈未慰蟿慰蟼) (c.鈥�484 鈥� c.鈥�425 BC) was a Greek historian and geographer from the Greek city of Halicarnassus, part of the Persian Empire (now Bodrum, Turkey) and a later citizen of Thurii in modern Calabria, Italy. He is known for having written the Histories 鈥� a detailed account of the Greco-Persian Wars. Herodotus was the first writer to perform systematic investigation of historical events. He has been described as "The Father of History", a title conferred on him by the ancient Roman orator Marcus Tullius Cicero.
The Histories primarily cover the lives of prominent kings and famous battles such as Marathon, Thermopylae, Artemisium, Salamis, Plataea, and Mycale. His work deviates from the main topics to provide a cultural, ethnographical, geographical, and historiographical background that forms an essential part of the narrative and provides readers with a wellspring of additional information.
Herodotus has been criticized for his inclusion of "legends and fanciful accounts" in his work. The contemporaneous historian Thucydides accused him of making up stories for entertainment. However, Herodotus explained that he reported what he could see and was told. A sizable portion of the Histories has since been confirmed by modern historians and archaeologists.
The Histories primarily cover the lives of prominent kings and famous battles such as Marathon, Thermopylae, Artemisium, Salamis, Plataea, and Mycale. His work deviates from the main topics to provide a cultural, ethnographical, geographical, and historiographical background that forms an essential part of the narrative and provides readers with a wellspring of additional information.
Herodotus has been criticized for his inclusion of "legends and fanciful accounts" in his work. The contemporaneous historian Thucydides accused him of making up stories for entertainment. However, Herodotus explained that he reported what he could see and was told. A sizable portion of the Histories has since been confirmed by modern historians and archaeologists.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 1,754 reviews
June 24, 2011
What I learned from this book (in no particular order):
1. Ancient Greeks are quarrelsome and love to waste each other鈥檚 city-states for the pettiest reasons.
2. From all forms of government known to man, democracy is the best. Tyrants and oligarchs suck.
3. The Persian Empire is a mighty barbarian nation, but being cowardly, effeminate and slavish, it is eventually defeated by the quarrelsome but brave and civilized Greeks.
4. Among the Greeks, the Spartans are the bravest.Gerard Butler with a six-pack King Leonidas and his 300 Spartans heroically perished in the battle of Thermopylae. They also have the particularly icky custom of marrying their own nieces.
5. The Delphic oracles are 100% accurate, except when someone manages to corrupt the Pythoness. The Gods are, however, a jealous sort and would strike any mortal who has the presumption of calling himself happiest on earth. Therefore, one should call no man happy until he is dead.
6. Egypt is a country of wonders, but its citizens鈥� customs and manners are exactly the reverse of the common practice of mankind elsewhere. For example, the women there urinate standing up, while the men sitting down. The country also abounds in strange fauna, among them the hippopotamus --- a quadruped, cloven-footed animal, with the mane and tail of a horse, huge tusks and a voice like a horse鈥檚 neigh.
7. The Scythians are a warlike nation that practices human sacrifice. The Scythian soldier drinks the blood of the first man that he kills in battle and cuts off all of his enemies鈥� heads, which he must show to the king to get his share of the war booty. They also like to saw off their enemies鈥� skulls, which they make into fancy gold-plated drinking cups.
8. The manners of the Androphagi, being cannibals, are more savage than those of any other race. Darius the Persian smote them.
9. The Atarantians, alone of all known nations, are destitute of names. The title of Atarantians is borne by the whole race in common, but the men have no particular names of their own. They also like to curse the sun because he burns and wastes both their country and themselves.
10. In the Indian desert live ants that are larger than a fox. They like to throw up sand-heaps as they burrow, which are full of gold. This is why India is so rich in gold. In Arabia, there are sheep that have long tails, so long that the shepherds have to make little trucks for their tails. Really.
BUT SERIOUSLY,
Herodotus is a consummate storyteller who had a fine eye for the fantastical, although to his credit, he always qualified his more improbable assertions by stating that they are based on hearsay or other sources that he could not wholly verify. Much of the pleasure of reading his book is found in the lush descriptions of long lost nations and their exotic customs. His 'Histories' does not concern itself solely with history in the modern sense, but it is also a book of travelogue, ethnography, zoology, geography and botany. He is an excellent raconteur, almost always entertaining, except when he drones about speculative geography. We can easily imagine him, a man of seemingly inexhaustible curiosity, interviewing Marathon veterans for firsthand battle accounts, or interrogating Egyptian temple priests about their country鈥檚 history and religion. History for him is not a dry recitation of facts and dates, but an intensely human story acted by a vast cast of monarchs, queens, warriors, tyrants, gods and ordinary citizens. Regicides and rebellions are caused by personal passions, such as in the stories of Caudales and Gyges, and Xerxes and Masistes. Dreams compel Xerxes to invade Greece. Divine intervention decides the course of epic battles.
A skein of tragedy runs through the historical drama that he narrates. The gods are so capricious and jealous that 鈥渙ne should not call a man happy until he is dead.鈥� Xerxes, on beholding his massive force on the Hellespont, laments that 鈥渘ot one will be alive when a hundred years are gone by.鈥� Yet while man lives his short existence he is capable of epic deeds, and Herodotus chronicled them all.
1. Ancient Greeks are quarrelsome and love to waste each other鈥檚 city-states for the pettiest reasons.
2. From all forms of government known to man, democracy is the best. Tyrants and oligarchs suck.
3. The Persian Empire is a mighty barbarian nation, but being cowardly, effeminate and slavish, it is eventually defeated by the quarrelsome but brave and civilized Greeks.
4. Among the Greeks, the Spartans are the bravest.
5. The Delphic oracles are 100% accurate, except when someone manages to corrupt the Pythoness. The Gods are, however, a jealous sort and would strike any mortal who has the presumption of calling himself happiest on earth. Therefore, one should call no man happy until he is dead.
6. Egypt is a country of wonders, but its citizens鈥� customs and manners are exactly the reverse of the common practice of mankind elsewhere. For example, the women there urinate standing up, while the men sitting down. The country also abounds in strange fauna, among them the hippopotamus --- a quadruped, cloven-footed animal, with the mane and tail of a horse, huge tusks and a voice like a horse鈥檚 neigh.
7. The Scythians are a warlike nation that practices human sacrifice. The Scythian soldier drinks the blood of the first man that he kills in battle and cuts off all of his enemies鈥� heads, which he must show to the king to get his share of the war booty. They also like to saw off their enemies鈥� skulls, which they make into fancy gold-plated drinking cups.
8. The manners of the Androphagi, being cannibals, are more savage than those of any other race. Darius the Persian smote them.
9. The Atarantians, alone of all known nations, are destitute of names. The title of Atarantians is borne by the whole race in common, but the men have no particular names of their own. They also like to curse the sun because he burns and wastes both their country and themselves.
10. In the Indian desert live ants that are larger than a fox. They like to throw up sand-heaps as they burrow, which are full of gold. This is why India is so rich in gold. In Arabia, there are sheep that have long tails, so long that the shepherds have to make little trucks for their tails. Really.
BUT SERIOUSLY,
Herodotus is a consummate storyteller who had a fine eye for the fantastical, although to his credit, he always qualified his more improbable assertions by stating that they are based on hearsay or other sources that he could not wholly verify. Much of the pleasure of reading his book is found in the lush descriptions of long lost nations and their exotic customs. His 'Histories' does not concern itself solely with history in the modern sense, but it is also a book of travelogue, ethnography, zoology, geography and botany. He is an excellent raconteur, almost always entertaining, except when he drones about speculative geography. We can easily imagine him, a man of seemingly inexhaustible curiosity, interviewing Marathon veterans for firsthand battle accounts, or interrogating Egyptian temple priests about their country鈥檚 history and religion. History for him is not a dry recitation of facts and dates, but an intensely human story acted by a vast cast of monarchs, queens, warriors, tyrants, gods and ordinary citizens. Regicides and rebellions are caused by personal passions, such as in the stories of Caudales and Gyges, and Xerxes and Masistes. Dreams compel Xerxes to invade Greece. Divine intervention decides the course of epic battles.
A skein of tragedy runs through the historical drama that he narrates. The gods are so capricious and jealous that 鈥渙ne should not call a man happy until he is dead.鈥� Xerxes, on beholding his massive force on the Hellespont, laments that 鈥渘ot one will be alive when a hundred years are gone by.鈥� Yet while man lives his short existence he is capable of epic deeds, and Herodotus chronicled them all.
November 11, 2021
峒赶兿勎肯佄蔽� = The Histories, Herodotus
The Histories of Herodotus is the founding work of history in Western literature. Written in 440 BC in the Ionic dialect of classical Greek, The Histories serves as a record of the ancient traditions, politics, geography, and clashes of various cultures that were known in Western Asia, Northern Africa and Greece at that time.
Although not a fully impartial record, it remains one of the West's most important sources regarding these affairs. Moreover, it established the genre and study of history in the Western world.
The Histories also stands as one of the first accounts of the rise of the Persian Empire, as well as the events and causes of the Greco-Persian Wars between the Achaemenid Empire and the Greek city-states in the 5th century BC.
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鬲丕乇蹖禺 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 蹖丕 讴鬲丕亘 芦鬲賵丕乇蹖禺禄 蹖讴 讴鬲丕亘 鬲丕乇蹖禺蹖 丕爻鬲貙 讴賴 鬲賵爻胤 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄貙 賲賵乇禺 芦蹖賵賳丕賳蹖禄 丿乇 爻丕賱 趩賴丕乇氐丿 賵 趩賴賱 倬蹖卮 丕夭 賲蹖賱丕丿蹖 賳诏丕卮鬲賴 卮丿賴鈥� 丕爻鬲貨 丕蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 芦鬲丕乇蹖禺禄 丿乇 噩賴丕賳 亘賴鈥� 卮賲丕乇 賲蹖鈥屫辟堌� 賵 卮丕賲賱 賳賴 讴鬲丕亘 丕爻鬲 (爻賴 讴鬲丕亘 賳禺爻鬲 亘賴 芦丌爻蹖丕蹖 氐睾蹖乇禄貙 芦賲氐乇禄貙 芦賲蹖丕賳鈥屫辟堌з喡回� 芦丕蹖乇丕賳禄 賵 芦爻賵乇蹖賴禄 賵 芦爻乇夭賲蹖賳鈥屬囏й� 賲噩丕賵乇 丌賳禄貙 讴鬲丕亘 趩賴丕乇賲 丿乇亘丕乇賴贁 芦爻讴丕賴丕禄 賵 讴鬲丕亘 倬賳噩賲 鬲丕 賳賴賲 亘賴 芦噩賳诏鈥屬囏й� 丕蹖乇丕賳 賵 蹖賵賳丕賳禄 丕禺鬲氐丕氐 丿丕乇丿)貨 卮乇丨 夭賳丿诏丕賳蹖 趩賴丕乇 卮丕賴 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖 芦讴賵乇賵卮 亘夭乇诏禄貙 芦讴賲亘賵噩蹖賴 蹖讴賲禄貙 芦丿丕乇蹖賵卮 亘夭乇诏禄貙 賵 芦禺卮丕蹖丕乇卮丕蹖 亘夭乇诏禄 丿乇 丕蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 丌乇賲蹖丿賴 丕爻鬲
卮乇賯 卮賳丕爻 倬乇丌賵丕夭賴貙 賵 讴丕卮賮 禺胤 賲蹖禺蹖 芦賴賳乇蹖 乇丕賵賱蹖賳爻賵賳禄貙 丿乇 丿賵乇丕賳 倬丕丿卮丕賴蹖 芦賲丨賲丿卮丕賴 賯丕噩丕乇禄貙 賲乇亘蹖 賳馗丕賲蹖 丿乇 賮賵噩 芦讴乇賲丕賳卮丕賴禄 亘賵丿賳丿貙 丕蹖卮丕賳 囟賲賳 禺丿賲鬲貙 亘賴 讴丕賵卮 賵 倬跇賵賴卮 亘乇丕蹖 讴卮賮 乇賲賵夭 芦禺胤 賲蹖禺蹖禄 賳蹖夭 賴賲鬲 诏賲丕卮鬲賳丿貙 賵 爻乇丕賳噩丕賲 賲賵賮賯 卮丿賳丿貨 倬爻 丕夭 讴卮賮 趩诏賵賳诏蹖 禺賵丕賳卮 芦禺胤 賲蹖禺蹖禄貙 亘乇丕丿乇 丕蹖卮丕賳 芦噩乇噩 乇丕賵賱蹖賳爻賵賳禄貙 丕夭 丌賳 丕讴鬲卮丕賮 賲賴賲 鬲丕乇蹖禺蹖 亘賴乇賴 诏乇賮鬲賳丿貙 賵 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 鬲乇噩賲賴 讴丕賲賱 丕夭 芦鬲丕乇蹖禺 賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 亘賴 夭亘丕賳 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 乇丕貙 亘丕 丨賵丕卮蹖 賵 鬲賵囟蹖丨 丿乇 趩賴丕乇 賲噩賱丿貙 丿乇 爻丕賱1858賲蹖賱丕丿蹖 賲賳鬲卮乇 讴乇丿賳丿貙 丿乇 爻丕賱1910賲蹖賱丕丿蹖貙 賳爻禺賴 蹖 鬲丕夭賴 丕蹖 丕夭 鬲乇噩賲賴 蹖 賲夭亘賵乇貙 丿乇 丿賵 噩賱丿 賲賳鬲卮乇 卮丿貙 丿乇 丕蹖賳 賳爻禺賴 亘蹖卮鬲乇 賲鬲賳 乇丕 丨賮馗貙 丕賲丕 丨賵丕卮蹖 賵 蹖丕丿丿丕卮鬲賴丕 賵 賲賯丿賲賴 乇丕貙 禺賱丕氐賴 讴乇丿賴 亘賵丿賳丿貙 丿乇 丌睾丕夭 噩賳诏 噩賴丕賳诏蹖乇 丿賵賲貙 賳爻禺賴 蹖 蹖讴 噩賱丿蹖 丕夭 鬲乇噩賲賴 蹖 芦乇丕賵賱蹖賳爻賵賳禄 鬲賵爻胤 芦丕.噩 丕賵丕賳爻禄 丿賵亘丕乇賴 鬲賱禺蹖氐 賵 鬲賳馗蹖賲 卮丿貙 丕蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 亘乇诏乇丿丕賳 噩賳丕亘 芦睾 賵丨蹖丿 賲丕夭賳丿乇丕賳蹖禄貙 丕夭 賴賲丕賳 賳爻禺賴 蹖讴 噩賱丿蹖貙 丕夭 夭亘丕賳 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 賲蹖亘丕卮丿貙 讴賴 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 趩丕倬 丌賳 丿乇 爻丕賱1324賴噩乇蹖 禺賵乇卮蹖丿蹖貙 鬲賵爻胤 丕賳鬲卮丕乇丕鬲 毓賱賲蹖貙 丿乇 丿爻鬲乇爻 倬跇賵賴卮诏乇丕賳 賯乇丕乇 诏乇賮鬲賴 丕爻鬲貨
丕蹖賳 賮乇丕賲賵卮讴丕乇 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 亘丕乇 賲鬲賳 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 讴鬲丕亘 乇丕 禺賵丕賳丿賴 丕賲貙 賵 爻倬爻 亘丕乇賴丕 賵 亘丕乇賴丕 賳蹖夭 丌賳乇丕 丿賵亘丕乇賴 禺賵丕賳丿賴 丕賲貙 賵 賴乇 亘丕乇 讴賴 賮乇氐鬲蹖 丿爻鬲 丿賴丿貙 賵 丨賵氐賱賴 丕賲 亘乇丕蹖 鬲丕乇蹖禺 鬲賳诏 卮賵丿貙 亘丕夭 賴賲 鬲讴賴 丕蹖 丕夭 賲鬲賳 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 乇丕 賲蹖禺賵丕賳賲貙 讴丕睾匕 丌賳 賳爻禺賴 蹖 讴鬲丕亘 噩蹖亘蹖 丕蹖賳 賮乇丕賲賵卮讴丕乇 讴丕賴蹖 丕爻鬲貙 賵 氐賮丨丕鬲卮 夭乇丿 卮丿賴貙 賵 趩卮賲丕賳賲 丨乇賵賮 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 乇蹖夭 乇丕 丕蹖賳 乇賵夭賴丕 禺賵亘 鬲卮禺蹖氐 賳賲蹖丿賴賳丿貙 賵賱蹖 賲蹖禺賵丕賳賲貙 丕蹖賳 賳賵卮鬲賴 蹖 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 卮丕賴讴丕乇蹖 丕爻鬲貙 讴賴 賴賲丕乇賴 亘丕賯蹖 禺賵丕賴丿 賲丕賳丿貙 鬲丕 亘賴 丌蹖賳丿诏丕賳 丌賲賵夭卮 丿賴丿 讴賴 鬲丕乇蹖禺 乇丕 趩诏賵賳賴 亘賳賵蹖爻賳丿
鬲丕乇蹖禺 亘賴賳诏丕賲 乇爻丕賳蹖 01/10/1399賴噩乇蹖 禺賵乇卮蹖丿蹖貨 19/08/1400賴噩乇蹖 禺賵乇卮蹖丿蹖貨 丕. 卮乇亘蹖丕賳蹖
The Histories of Herodotus is the founding work of history in Western literature. Written in 440 BC in the Ionic dialect of classical Greek, The Histories serves as a record of the ancient traditions, politics, geography, and clashes of various cultures that were known in Western Asia, Northern Africa and Greece at that time.
Although not a fully impartial record, it remains one of the West's most important sources regarding these affairs. Moreover, it established the genre and study of history in the Western world.
The Histories also stands as one of the first accounts of the rise of the Persian Empire, as well as the events and causes of the Greco-Persian Wars between the Achaemenid Empire and the Greek city-states in the 5th century BC.
毓賳賵丕賳賴丕蹖 趩丕倬 卮丿賴 丿乇 丕蹖乇丕賳: 芦鬲丕乇蹖禺 賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄貨 芦鬲賵丕乇蹖禺禄貨 賳賵蹖爻賳丿賴: 賴乇賵丿賵鬲貨 鬲丕乇蹖禺 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 禺賵丕賳卮: 乇賵夭 賴卮鬲賲 賲丕賴 丌诏賵爻鬲 爻丕賱1972賲蹖賱丕丿蹖
毓賳賵丕賳: 鬲丕乇蹖禺 賴乇賵丿賵鬲貨 賳賵蹖爻賳丿賴: 賴乇賵丿賵鬲貨 鬲乇噩賲賴 亘賴 丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖: 噩乇噩 乇丕賵賱蹖賳 爻賳貨 鬲賳馗蹖賲: 丕.噩 丕賵丕賳爻貨 賲鬲乇噩賲: 睾賱丕賲毓賱蹖 賵丨蹖丿 賲丕夭賳丿乇丕賳蹖貨 鬲賴乇丕賳貙 毓賱賲蹖貙 爻丕賱1324貙 丿乇24氐 賵211氐貨 趩丕倬 丿蹖诏乇 鬲賴乇丕賳貙 亘賳诏丕賴 鬲乇噩賲賴 賵 賳卮乇貙 爻丕賱1360貙 丿乇 賴卮鬲 氐 賵300氐貨 賲賵囟賵毓 鬲丕乇蹖禺 賴禺丕賲賳卮蹖丕賳 - 噩賳诏賴丕蹖 丕蹖乇丕賳 賵 蹖賵賳丕賳 - 丕夭 爻丿賴 卮卮賲 倬蹖卮 丕夭 賲蹖賱丕丿 鬲丕 爻丿賴 趩賴丕乇賲 倬蹖卮 丕夭 賲蹖賱丕丿蹖
毓賳賵丕賳: 鬲賵丕乇蹖禺貨 賳賵蹖爻賳丿賴: 賴乇賵丿賵鬲貨 賲鬲乇噩賲: 睾賱丕賲毓賱蹖 賵丨蹖丿 賲丕夭賳丿乇丕賳蹖貨 鬲賴乇丕賳貙 丿賳蹖丕蹖 讴鬲丕亘貨 爻丕賱1368貨 丿乇573氐 賵4氐貙 賲氐賵乇貨 卮丕亘讴9643461637貨 趩丕倬 丿賵賲 爻丕賱1368貨 趩丕倬 爻賵賲 爻丕賱1386貨 趩丕倬 丿蹖诏乇 賲卮賴丿貙 禺丕鬲賲貙 爻丕賱1391貨 丿乇612氐貨 卮丕亘讴9786006153278貨
毓賳賵丕賳: 鬲丕乇蹖禺 賴乇賵丿賵鬲貨 賳賵蹖爻賳丿賴: 賴乇賵丿賵鬲貨 賲鬲乇噩賲: 賲乇鬲囟蹖 孬丕賯亘 賮乇貨 鬲賴乇丕賳貙 丕爻丕胤蹖乇貙 爻丕賱1389貙 丿乇 丿賵 噩賱丿貨 卮丕亘讴 噩賱丿 蹖讴9789643314699貨 卮丕亘讴 噩賱丿 丿賵賲9789643314705貨
鬲丕乇蹖禺 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 蹖丕 讴鬲丕亘 芦鬲賵丕乇蹖禺禄 蹖讴 讴鬲丕亘 鬲丕乇蹖禺蹖 丕爻鬲貙 讴賴 鬲賵爻胤 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄貙 賲賵乇禺 芦蹖賵賳丕賳蹖禄 丿乇 爻丕賱 趩賴丕乇氐丿 賵 趩賴賱 倬蹖卮 丕夭 賲蹖賱丕丿蹖 賳诏丕卮鬲賴 卮丿賴鈥� 丕爻鬲貨 丕蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 芦鬲丕乇蹖禺禄 丿乇 噩賴丕賳 亘賴鈥� 卮賲丕乇 賲蹖鈥屫辟堌� 賵 卮丕賲賱 賳賴 讴鬲丕亘 丕爻鬲 (爻賴 讴鬲丕亘 賳禺爻鬲 亘賴 芦丌爻蹖丕蹖 氐睾蹖乇禄貙 芦賲氐乇禄貙 芦賲蹖丕賳鈥屫辟堌з喡回� 芦丕蹖乇丕賳禄 賵 芦爻賵乇蹖賴禄 賵 芦爻乇夭賲蹖賳鈥屬囏й� 賲噩丕賵乇 丌賳禄貙 讴鬲丕亘 趩賴丕乇賲 丿乇亘丕乇賴贁 芦爻讴丕賴丕禄 賵 讴鬲丕亘 倬賳噩賲 鬲丕 賳賴賲 亘賴 芦噩賳诏鈥屬囏й� 丕蹖乇丕賳 賵 蹖賵賳丕賳禄 丕禺鬲氐丕氐 丿丕乇丿)貨 卮乇丨 夭賳丿诏丕賳蹖 趩賴丕乇 卮丕賴 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖 芦讴賵乇賵卮 亘夭乇诏禄貙 芦讴賲亘賵噩蹖賴 蹖讴賲禄貙 芦丿丕乇蹖賵卮 亘夭乇诏禄貙 賵 芦禺卮丕蹖丕乇卮丕蹖 亘夭乇诏禄 丿乇 丕蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 丌乇賲蹖丿賴 丕爻鬲
卮乇賯 卮賳丕爻 倬乇丌賵丕夭賴貙 賵 讴丕卮賮 禺胤 賲蹖禺蹖 芦賴賳乇蹖 乇丕賵賱蹖賳爻賵賳禄貙 丿乇 丿賵乇丕賳 倬丕丿卮丕賴蹖 芦賲丨賲丿卮丕賴 賯丕噩丕乇禄貙 賲乇亘蹖 賳馗丕賲蹖 丿乇 賮賵噩 芦讴乇賲丕賳卮丕賴禄 亘賵丿賳丿貙 丕蹖卮丕賳 囟賲賳 禺丿賲鬲貙 亘賴 讴丕賵卮 賵 倬跇賵賴卮 亘乇丕蹖 讴卮賮 乇賲賵夭 芦禺胤 賲蹖禺蹖禄 賳蹖夭 賴賲鬲 诏賲丕卮鬲賳丿貙 賵 爻乇丕賳噩丕賲 賲賵賮賯 卮丿賳丿貨 倬爻 丕夭 讴卮賮 趩诏賵賳诏蹖 禺賵丕賳卮 芦禺胤 賲蹖禺蹖禄貙 亘乇丕丿乇 丕蹖卮丕賳 芦噩乇噩 乇丕賵賱蹖賳爻賵賳禄貙 丕夭 丌賳 丕讴鬲卮丕賮 賲賴賲 鬲丕乇蹖禺蹖 亘賴乇賴 诏乇賮鬲賳丿貙 賵 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 鬲乇噩賲賴 讴丕賲賱 丕夭 芦鬲丕乇蹖禺 賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 亘賴 夭亘丕賳 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 乇丕貙 亘丕 丨賵丕卮蹖 賵 鬲賵囟蹖丨 丿乇 趩賴丕乇 賲噩賱丿貙 丿乇 爻丕賱1858賲蹖賱丕丿蹖 賲賳鬲卮乇 讴乇丿賳丿貙 丿乇 爻丕賱1910賲蹖賱丕丿蹖貙 賳爻禺賴 蹖 鬲丕夭賴 丕蹖 丕夭 鬲乇噩賲賴 蹖 賲夭亘賵乇貙 丿乇 丿賵 噩賱丿 賲賳鬲卮乇 卮丿貙 丿乇 丕蹖賳 賳爻禺賴 亘蹖卮鬲乇 賲鬲賳 乇丕 丨賮馗貙 丕賲丕 丨賵丕卮蹖 賵 蹖丕丿丿丕卮鬲賴丕 賵 賲賯丿賲賴 乇丕貙 禺賱丕氐賴 讴乇丿賴 亘賵丿賳丿貙 丿乇 丌睾丕夭 噩賳诏 噩賴丕賳诏蹖乇 丿賵賲貙 賳爻禺賴 蹖 蹖讴 噩賱丿蹖 丕夭 鬲乇噩賲賴 蹖 芦乇丕賵賱蹖賳爻賵賳禄 鬲賵爻胤 芦丕.噩 丕賵丕賳爻禄 丿賵亘丕乇賴 鬲賱禺蹖氐 賵 鬲賳馗蹖賲 卮丿貙 丕蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 亘乇诏乇丿丕賳 噩賳丕亘 芦睾 賵丨蹖丿 賲丕夭賳丿乇丕賳蹖禄貙 丕夭 賴賲丕賳 賳爻禺賴 蹖讴 噩賱丿蹖貙 丕夭 夭亘丕賳 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 賲蹖亘丕卮丿貙 讴賴 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 趩丕倬 丌賳 丿乇 爻丕賱1324賴噩乇蹖 禺賵乇卮蹖丿蹖貙 鬲賵爻胤 丕賳鬲卮丕乇丕鬲 毓賱賲蹖貙 丿乇 丿爻鬲乇爻 倬跇賵賴卮诏乇丕賳 賯乇丕乇 诏乇賮鬲賴 丕爻鬲貨
丕蹖賳 賮乇丕賲賵卮讴丕乇 賳禺爻鬲蹖賳 亘丕乇 賲鬲賳 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 讴鬲丕亘 乇丕 禺賵丕賳丿賴 丕賲貙 賵 爻倬爻 亘丕乇賴丕 賵 亘丕乇賴丕 賳蹖夭 丌賳乇丕 丿賵亘丕乇賴 禺賵丕賳丿賴 丕賲貙 賵 賴乇 亘丕乇 讴賴 賮乇氐鬲蹖 丿爻鬲 丿賴丿貙 賵 丨賵氐賱賴 丕賲 亘乇丕蹖 鬲丕乇蹖禺 鬲賳诏 卮賵丿貙 亘丕夭 賴賲 鬲讴賴 丕蹖 丕夭 賲鬲賳 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 乇丕 賲蹖禺賵丕賳賲貙 讴丕睾匕 丌賳 賳爻禺賴 蹖 讴鬲丕亘 噩蹖亘蹖 丕蹖賳 賮乇丕賲賵卮讴丕乇 讴丕賴蹖 丕爻鬲貙 賵 氐賮丨丕鬲卮 夭乇丿 卮丿賴貙 賵 趩卮賲丕賳賲 丨乇賵賮 芦丕賳诏賱蹖爻蹖禄 乇蹖夭 乇丕 丕蹖賳 乇賵夭賴丕 禺賵亘 鬲卮禺蹖氐 賳賲蹖丿賴賳丿貙 賵賱蹖 賲蹖禺賵丕賳賲貙 丕蹖賳 賳賵卮鬲賴 蹖 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 卮丕賴讴丕乇蹖 丕爻鬲貙 讴賴 賴賲丕乇賴 亘丕賯蹖 禺賵丕賴丿 賲丕賳丿貙 鬲丕 亘賴 丌蹖賳丿诏丕賳 丌賲賵夭卮 丿賴丿 讴賴 鬲丕乇蹖禺 乇丕 趩诏賵賳賴 亘賳賵蹖爻賳丿
鬲丕乇蹖禺 亘賴賳诏丕賲 乇爻丕賳蹖 01/10/1399賴噩乇蹖 禺賵乇卮蹖丿蹖貨 19/08/1400賴噩乇蹖 禺賵乇卮蹖丿蹖貨 丕. 卮乇亘蹖丕賳蹖
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January 2, 2020What do Herodotus and have in common? Progress through digression.
I suppose my first acquaintance with the work of Herodotus was through that technicolor cold war drama in which a rampantly heterosexual force of Spartans defends freedom, liberty, and all that good stuff from allegedly ferocious yet ineffective, hordes of freedom hating Persians. The appalling, appealing, simplicity of that film is a grave disservice to the genius of Herodotus 鈥� already mauled by Thucydides barely after completing 鈥� if complete it is 鈥� his surviving work.
Later I was shocked into actually reading the first half of an old Everyman edition of Herodotus by a National Geographic article but it was only now at an advanced age - older quite possibly than many of the protagonists described in the Histories - that I have finally read through the complete Herodotus.
The conflicts between the Persians and the Greeks, culminating in the battles of Marathon, Salamis and Plataea, form a framework in which Herodotus digresses his way round the Greek world: physically , intellectually, culturally, but the eventual war is less the story of the clash of civilisations than the clash of relative inequality of development.
Because one of the things that has struck me reading the whole thing in a linear fashion is not so much the framing narrative structure but the repetition of themes and narrative parallels: the wise advisor to the ruler, that a hard land makes for a hard people, that change follows on from transgression.
One of the early starting points in Herodotus' narrative is the rise of Persia under Cyrus. Then, in the beginning, the Persians are poor. They inhabit a harsh land. By the end of the story the Persians possess a mighty empire, they are rich and rule over wealthy peoples but they make war against the Greeks. They have forgotten Cyrus' warning, which Herodotus kindly reminds us of: "Soft countries...breed soft men. It is not the property of any one soil to produce fine fruits and good soldiers too" (p543). For narrative purposes the Greeks in the time of story - already several generations before Herodotus was composing his work - were poor. In their Olympic Games they compete for Olive Branches and honour, rather than gold, silver or bronze like sensible people , simply because they have nothing better, the contrast between a rich Persian meal and a Spartan one is an occasion for laughter.
There's a criticism of Imperialism in this - what is the point of waging war against people who sleep in tents, wear leather, live in a country so unfruitful that they can eat all they can find but can never eat their fill? The repeated lesson, never learnt, taught through repeated harsh blows is that transgression through aggression that is not sanctioned by God, gods, Fate, or Mandate of Heaven, as expressed variously through the opaque words of Oracles, and really this is about expansion beyond your ecological base, ends in grim failure perhaps in the form of having your decapitated head dipped into a bag of blood - such was Cyrus' fate at the hands of Queen Tomyris - ah, another theme here - call no man happy until his death!
By the time Herodotus's work was completed it is the Greeks who in turn are wealthy and powerful, on the verge of fighting the Peloponnesian war (during which, so much for the eternal clash of civilisations, the Spartans will turn to the Persians for aid in defeating the Athenians, but in Herodotian style, I digress, with purpose). We can read this, whether Herodotus intended this is another question, with irony. Success will lead to wealth, an inevitable softening, and pride leads on to a fall .
Since History didn't exist before Herodotus (or Thucydides depending on your point of view) we can hardly say that history in Herodotus is cyclical rather than linear, instead the philosophy that unfolds is that the nature of existence itself is cyclical. Wisdom is the result of hardship, learnt by riding Fate's wheel in a complete cycle. Alienated in self imposed exile Solon is the wise advisor to Croesus. After defeat in the war which he brought about, Croesus can be a wise advisor to Cyrus. In exile the Spartan King Demaratus is a wise advisor to Xerxes.
To judge Herodotus as a writer of history is a little unfair, this is a transitional work. Part of his approach comes from the epic - he is explicitly looking back to Homer and the Iliad, another part we would think of as folktale and fable which is about moral teachings, traditional wisdom, and tropes , another the travelogue - Rebecca West's is a direct descendent . History, though, as a narrative of events with an analysis of causes is one of his gifts just as Egypt was the gift of the Nile, even if in part on account of Thucydides sharp response to Herodotus.
It also manages to capture the transition that occurs when the past and historical memory slips over into fable. This is not only something we can see in the presentation of Cyrus and Cypselus but more pointedly in the examples of Delphi and Thebes. Already by Herodotus' time Delphi was painting over its prior Persian sympathies and we get some fantastical stories instead of how weapons left in the sanctuary divinely appeared around the temple or how a great loud voice was heard shouting from within all of which conflicts completely with the oracular statements that Herodotus records which instead are defeatist if not actually pro-Persian, the effect is a little like a book about occupied France showing that everybody - even Petain, was actually in the Resistance. The Thebians, despite their contingent dying to a man at Thermopylae, are recorded as pro-Persian - this is attributed to Herodotus making use of Athenian informants. I feel that there is fable and folklore also in the victory at Salamis - the Greeks win by playing a trick upon the Persians, Thermistocles is the Odysseus of the piece, wielding the one not entirely defeatist oracle, maintaining the allies in a threatened position, trying to exploit the potential for division amongst the Persian coalition, and finally mauling the enemy fleet, although the cycle must be completed for him too and eventually he ends up as a wise advisor at the Persian court.
Still, I like how archaeology now confirms Herodotus' stories of steppe women wielding weapons, just as zoology confirms that the genitals of both sexes of camel face backwards . Some historians even take things one stage further and prefer Herodotus' account of Athenian strategy developing in reaction to the Persian advance to the discovered inscription at Troezen which gives the retreat down the coast and the evacuation of Attica as previously agreed strategies.
Unlike in the old film, Herodotus' Persians are gallant and honourable foes (if occasionally given to whipping the sea for it's misdeeds), but then we are in the epic tradition. The enemy has to be worthy of the hero. Herodotus is far more effective here than say Livy in his treatment of the war with Hannibal - there we have to read Punic virtues and attractiveness between the lines to understand the fact that Livy doesn't attempt to explain of Hannibal surviving and thriving in Italy for years on end.
I wondered reading if Herodotus would make for a complete elementary education, Aesop meets Aeschylus with the wonders of Egypt thrown in. Admittedly you would have to deal with questions like "Mummy, Daddy, what does 'refused normal intercourse and lay with her in an unnatural way ' mean?" so this would be no course of action for the fainted hearted - but one only for those prepared to bend the bow of the long-lived Ethiopians and to bring up their offspring to respect the Oracle at Delphi, admire wisdom, and be curious about the customs of other countries.
If I may deviate from my current deviation and recover the thread of my narrative the other point that struck me reading the complete work rather than just the first half was how Murray's was in good part a commentary and analysis of Herodotus, drawing its anecdotes about the Oracle at Delphi or Greek Colonies from this work.
On the subject of the latter, pausing to mention the colonists who departing their homeland threw a lump of iron in the harbour swearing never to return until it floated or those told by the Oracle at Delphi to set up a colony in Libya even though they had no idea where Libya was or how to get there, I arrive at the Greek settlers at Miletus who married Carian women after having murdered all their menfolk. The colonists pass a law "forbidding them to sit at table with their husbands or to address them by name" (p60). Later there is a similar story about captured Athenian women whose children born of rape band together to the point that they are all considered dangerous by their captors who put them all to death, this inevitably leads to divine punishment and the need to ask advice of the Oracle at Delphi, but I digress, though before returning to my theme again the pattern of violence as self-destructive behaviour that brings down an entire community - the whole of the Persian wars in Herodotus' account is figured as the culmination of a series of violent abductions that can only ever end in disaster because the human passions can not be stilled until divine retribution forces the community polluted through its violence to offer up propitiation. This reminded me of Michael Wood's point about western Europe having adopted ancient Greece as a forebear - "the glory that was Greece" was not all fine statues and beautiful ruins, heritage isn't a clear cut matter, the baby comes with the bathwater.
The great contrast here in my mind is with the Romans. They have the Sabine women, who despite the violent beginning represent reconciliation and the unity of different peoples. The Romans base an ideology of empire and themselves as an Imperial people on the basis of a myth of reconciliation, the Greeks an ideology of civic distinctiveness on a history of sectarianism enforced beyond the point of self-harm. Something clear from Herodotus' account is how divided the Greeks are, with many supporting the Persians and some opposed, not out of great principals but on account of local rivalries.
Lets finish with the Spartans. Not as laconic, proto-all-American superheroes of the battlefield tanned and oiled fit to star in technicolor, but as examples of Herodotus' style. It is the Spartans and Athenians who breach the norms of international diplomacy by murdering the Persian Ambassadors - Herodotus is no whitewasher (though perhaps his early audiences admired their ancestors precisely for that violation). Best of all is his fascinated treatment of the Spartan King Cleomenes, at once decisive and brilliant, but transgressing acceptable behaviour - for instance having holed up some enemies in a sacred wood he tricks some of them out claiming they have been ransomed and has them slaughtered (pp349-50). The Spartans put him on trial for failing to capture Argos, in his defence he argues that having offered sacrifice at the temple of Hera he saw flame flash from the breast but not the head of the statue he knew from this with absolute certainty that he was not to capture Argos...The Spartans accepted this as a credible and reasonable defence, and Cleomenes was fully acquitted (p350). The outcome of all this is that Cleomenes goes mad, and with a knife, cuts himself into strips while in the stocks. Again: transgression, pollution, and call no man happy until he is dead.
"My business is to record what people say, but I am by no means bound to believe it - and that may be taken to apply to this book as a whole" (p421)
I suppose my first acquaintance with the work of Herodotus was through that technicolor cold war drama in which a rampantly heterosexual force of Spartans defends freedom, liberty, and all that good stuff from allegedly ferocious yet ineffective, hordes of freedom hating Persians. The appalling, appealing, simplicity of that film is a grave disservice to the genius of Herodotus 鈥� already mauled by Thucydides barely after completing 鈥� if complete it is 鈥� his surviving work.
Later I was shocked into actually reading the first half of an old Everyman edition of Herodotus by a National Geographic article but it was only now at an advanced age - older quite possibly than many of the protagonists described in the Histories - that I have finally read through the complete Herodotus.
The conflicts between the Persians and the Greeks, culminating in the battles of Marathon, Salamis and Plataea, form a framework in which Herodotus digresses his way round the Greek world: physically , intellectually, culturally, but the eventual war is less the story of the clash of civilisations than the clash of relative inequality of development.
Because one of the things that has struck me reading the whole thing in a linear fashion is not so much the framing narrative structure but the repetition of themes and narrative parallels: the wise advisor to the ruler, that a hard land makes for a hard people, that change follows on from transgression.
One of the early starting points in Herodotus' narrative is the rise of Persia under Cyrus. Then, in the beginning, the Persians are poor. They inhabit a harsh land. By the end of the story the Persians possess a mighty empire, they are rich and rule over wealthy peoples but they make war against the Greeks. They have forgotten Cyrus' warning, which Herodotus kindly reminds us of: "Soft countries...breed soft men. It is not the property of any one soil to produce fine fruits and good soldiers too" (p543). For narrative purposes the Greeks in the time of story - already several generations before Herodotus was composing his work - were poor. In their Olympic Games they compete for Olive Branches and honour, rather than gold, silver or bronze like sensible people , simply because they have nothing better, the contrast between a rich Persian meal and a Spartan one is an occasion for laughter.
There's a criticism of Imperialism in this - what is the point of waging war against people who sleep in tents, wear leather, live in a country so unfruitful that they can eat all they can find but can never eat their fill? The repeated lesson, never learnt, taught through repeated harsh blows is that transgression through aggression that is not sanctioned by God, gods, Fate, or Mandate of Heaven, as expressed variously through the opaque words of Oracles, and really this is about expansion beyond your ecological base, ends in grim failure perhaps in the form of having your decapitated head dipped into a bag of blood - such was Cyrus' fate at the hands of Queen Tomyris - ah, another theme here - call no man happy until his death!
By the time Herodotus's work was completed it is the Greeks who in turn are wealthy and powerful, on the verge of fighting the Peloponnesian war (during which, so much for the eternal clash of civilisations, the Spartans will turn to the Persians for aid in defeating the Athenians, but in Herodotian style, I digress, with purpose). We can read this, whether Herodotus intended this is another question, with irony. Success will lead to wealth, an inevitable softening, and pride leads on to a fall .
Since History didn't exist before Herodotus (or Thucydides depending on your point of view) we can hardly say that history in Herodotus is cyclical rather than linear, instead the philosophy that unfolds is that the nature of existence itself is cyclical. Wisdom is the result of hardship, learnt by riding Fate's wheel in a complete cycle. Alienated in self imposed exile Solon is the wise advisor to Croesus. After defeat in the war which he brought about, Croesus can be a wise advisor to Cyrus. In exile the Spartan King Demaratus is a wise advisor to Xerxes.
To judge Herodotus as a writer of history is a little unfair, this is a transitional work. Part of his approach comes from the epic - he is explicitly looking back to Homer and the Iliad, another part we would think of as folktale and fable which is about moral teachings, traditional wisdom, and tropes , another the travelogue - Rebecca West's is a direct descendent . History, though, as a narrative of events with an analysis of causes is one of his gifts just as Egypt was the gift of the Nile, even if in part on account of Thucydides sharp response to Herodotus.
It also manages to capture the transition that occurs when the past and historical memory slips over into fable. This is not only something we can see in the presentation of Cyrus and Cypselus but more pointedly in the examples of Delphi and Thebes. Already by Herodotus' time Delphi was painting over its prior Persian sympathies and we get some fantastical stories instead of how weapons left in the sanctuary divinely appeared around the temple or how a great loud voice was heard shouting from within all of which conflicts completely with the oracular statements that Herodotus records which instead are defeatist if not actually pro-Persian, the effect is a little like a book about occupied France showing that everybody - even Petain, was actually in the Resistance. The Thebians, despite their contingent dying to a man at Thermopylae, are recorded as pro-Persian - this is attributed to Herodotus making use of Athenian informants. I feel that there is fable and folklore also in the victory at Salamis - the Greeks win by playing a trick upon the Persians, Thermistocles is the Odysseus of the piece, wielding the one not entirely defeatist oracle, maintaining the allies in a threatened position, trying to exploit the potential for division amongst the Persian coalition, and finally mauling the enemy fleet, although the cycle must be completed for him too and eventually he ends up as a wise advisor at the Persian court.
Still, I like how archaeology now confirms Herodotus' stories of steppe women wielding weapons, just as zoology confirms that the genitals of both sexes of camel face backwards . Some historians even take things one stage further and prefer Herodotus' account of Athenian strategy developing in reaction to the Persian advance to the discovered inscription at Troezen which gives the retreat down the coast and the evacuation of Attica as previously agreed strategies.
Unlike in the old film, Herodotus' Persians are gallant and honourable foes (if occasionally given to whipping the sea for it's misdeeds), but then we are in the epic tradition. The enemy has to be worthy of the hero. Herodotus is far more effective here than say Livy in his treatment of the war with Hannibal - there we have to read Punic virtues and attractiveness between the lines to understand the fact that Livy doesn't attempt to explain of Hannibal surviving and thriving in Italy for years on end.
I wondered reading if Herodotus would make for a complete elementary education, Aesop meets Aeschylus with the wonders of Egypt thrown in. Admittedly you would have to deal with questions like "Mummy, Daddy, what does 'refused normal intercourse and lay with her in an unnatural way ' mean?" so this would be no course of action for the fainted hearted - but one only for those prepared to bend the bow of the long-lived Ethiopians and to bring up their offspring to respect the Oracle at Delphi, admire wisdom, and be curious about the customs of other countries.
If I may deviate from my current deviation and recover the thread of my narrative the other point that struck me reading the complete work rather than just the first half was how Murray's was in good part a commentary and analysis of Herodotus, drawing its anecdotes about the Oracle at Delphi or Greek Colonies from this work.
On the subject of the latter, pausing to mention the colonists who departing their homeland threw a lump of iron in the harbour swearing never to return until it floated or those told by the Oracle at Delphi to set up a colony in Libya even though they had no idea where Libya was or how to get there, I arrive at the Greek settlers at Miletus who married Carian women after having murdered all their menfolk. The colonists pass a law "forbidding them to sit at table with their husbands or to address them by name" (p60). Later there is a similar story about captured Athenian women whose children born of rape band together to the point that they are all considered dangerous by their captors who put them all to death, this inevitably leads to divine punishment and the need to ask advice of the Oracle at Delphi, but I digress, though before returning to my theme again the pattern of violence as self-destructive behaviour that brings down an entire community - the whole of the Persian wars in Herodotus' account is figured as the culmination of a series of violent abductions that can only ever end in disaster because the human passions can not be stilled until divine retribution forces the community polluted through its violence to offer up propitiation. This reminded me of Michael Wood's point about western Europe having adopted ancient Greece as a forebear - "the glory that was Greece" was not all fine statues and beautiful ruins, heritage isn't a clear cut matter, the baby comes with the bathwater.
The great contrast here in my mind is with the Romans. They have the Sabine women, who despite the violent beginning represent reconciliation and the unity of different peoples. The Romans base an ideology of empire and themselves as an Imperial people on the basis of a myth of reconciliation, the Greeks an ideology of civic distinctiveness on a history of sectarianism enforced beyond the point of self-harm. Something clear from Herodotus' account is how divided the Greeks are, with many supporting the Persians and some opposed, not out of great principals but on account of local rivalries.
Lets finish with the Spartans. Not as laconic, proto-all-American superheroes of the battlefield tanned and oiled fit to star in technicolor, but as examples of Herodotus' style. It is the Spartans and Athenians who breach the norms of international diplomacy by murdering the Persian Ambassadors - Herodotus is no whitewasher (though perhaps his early audiences admired their ancestors precisely for that violation). Best of all is his fascinated treatment of the Spartan King Cleomenes, at once decisive and brilliant, but transgressing acceptable behaviour - for instance having holed up some enemies in a sacred wood he tricks some of them out claiming they have been ransomed and has them slaughtered (pp349-50). The Spartans put him on trial for failing to capture Argos, in his defence he argues that having offered sacrifice at the temple of Hera he saw flame flash from the breast but not the head of the statue he knew from this with absolute certainty that he was not to capture Argos...The Spartans accepted this as a credible and reasonable defence, and Cleomenes was fully acquitted (p350). The outcome of all this is that Cleomenes goes mad, and with a knife, cuts himself into strips while in the stocks. Again: transgression, pollution, and call no man happy until he is dead.
"My business is to record what people say, but I am by no means bound to believe it - and that may be taken to apply to this book as a whole" (p421)
September 25, 2023
I can see why this book is held in such esteem; for the first time the acts of men are looked at through the optics of investigative inquiry - "Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances" is still the lesson we seem to learn and forget every decade - "Circumstance is the hub of the wheel; men are the spokes that provide traction through connection to the felloes of history" is what this book has taught me.
October 16, 2019
Hubris in History: A Recurring Terror
The prime subject of The Histories is the twenty years (499-479 B.C.E) of war between Greece and Persia for domination of the Greek world. However he intersperses this main narrative with plenty of personal interest stories, 鈥渨onders鈥� about firsts and bests, historical parallels and occasionally his own biased judgements, but always making it clear that he is interested only in presenting a viewpoint 鈥� he leaves the act of judgement to the reader. We can safely say that it was Herodotus who helped create the concept of the discipline of 鈥渉istory,鈥� in part by stressing and criticizing his sources and accepted traditions. My job is to record what I have been told, make of it what you will - that is the dominant warning note wherever H鈥檚 authorial voice intervenes in the narrative. That should be the disclaimer all history books should come with.
All the main themes of the book are evident in its beginning and ending, in keeping with the circular narratives that H prefers to adopt. All the intervening incidents act like reinforcements of the overall thrust inherent in the beginning and ending.
The Beginning: The Parallel Rise of Freedom & Empire
We begin with an insecure Hellenic world, just shaking off the shackles of tyranny and tasting real ambition for the first time. Meanwhile in the other end of the world, an existing empire is being shaped into a fearsome tyrannical force by the new Persian rulers. Soon the Persian empire starts to extend ominously outwards and gobbles up most of the known world. This infringes on a core idea of H 鈥� the concept of natural limits and over-extension. Persia is meant to fall. 鈥淭he Small shall become the Big; and the Big shall become the Small.鈥�
As long as empires are driven by ambition, history is doomed to repeat itself.
The gods set limits and do not allow human beings to go beyond them; Herodotus makes it clear that the Persians have to fail in their plan to conquer Greece, because they have overreached their natural boundaries. Xerxes announces his campaign by telling his advisers that he intends to conquer Greece so that 鈥榳e will make Persian territory end only at the sky鈥� (7.8).
The Middle: The Clash of Civilizations
Then we are taken through the many over-extensions of the Persian empire under a succession of rulers (in Ionia, Scythia, etc), until they are poised to encroach upon the newly non-tyrannical Greek world. Here we enter the climactic middle of the narrative and is drenched in the details of the gory encounter. Many heroes, legends and dramatic material is born here and we emerge on the other side with a clear sense that it was Athens, without the yoke of tyranny, that was able to bring down the fearsome war machine of the Persian empire. David has won out against Goliath. This is achieved due to much luck and much pluck, but in the final analysis H seems to imply that the fault was with the hubris of the Persians.
It needs to be pointed out that: H is quite clear that as human beings Persians are on the whole no better and no worse than Greeks. Structurally, however, Xerxes鈥� great expedition to Greece stands as a monument to the dangerous blindness of massive empires and grandiose thinking鈥攂ut it is also the backdrop against which H has been able to present to us the Greeks鈥� love of their homeland, their valor against incredible odds, and their deep desire to preserve their freedom.
So, even as this main narrative concludes, we are shown what is the inevitable result of Hubris that over-extends its own reaches. And of how tyranny in any form is not going to triumph over people who have tasted what freedom means.
The Ending: A Reenactment of The Beginning
Herodotus could have ended there. But he doesn鈥檛. Instead he takes us to the Ending to rub in the message and to instill that message with its true significance 鈥� what is its bearing on the future? For, an investigation of History is meaningless unless it can educate us about the future. And it is the future that H ironically points to as he takes us through the concluding sections of his Histories.
For now it is the turn of the Greeks to over-extend. In the thrill of victory and in the thrall of a thirst for revenge, in the spirit of competition with its own neighbors, Athens and Sparta launch out on its own imperialistic enterprise to mainland Asia. This is to culminate in H鈥檚 own day with the Ionians looking upon Athens as the equivalent of a Tyrant.
The beginning of this period saw the triumph of the Greek mainland states over the might of the Persian Empire, first in the initial invasion of 490 and the battle of Marathon, and then in the second invasion of 480/79, with the battles of Thermopylae, Salamis, Plataea, and finally Mycaleb in Asia Mnor.
This unexpected victory against what seemed like the mightiest empire on Earth resonated in Greek consciousness through the fifth century and indeed beyond. The Greeks in general, and the Athenians in particular, because they had played the major part in the triumph of 鈥淔reedom鈥�, saw these victories as a triumph of right over might, courage over fear, freedom over servitude, moderation over arrogance. It helped crystallize and reinforce Greeks鈥� attitudes to their own newfound way of life and values, intensified their supreme distrust of monarchy and tyranny, and shaped their attitude to the Persians. And after what they visualized as the great struggle for freedom, the people of Athens entered upon a spectacular era of energy and prosperity, one of the great flowering periods of Western civilization.
In more practical terms, Athens鈥� naval success in the Persian Wars and its enterprise immediately after led to the creation of the Athenian Empire, which started as an anti-Persian league and lasted for almost three-quarters of a century (479-404).
H seems to imply that Athens should learn from these investigations of the past, see what Tyranny can do, see the dangers of over-extension, understand the need for balance, respect certain international boundaries, and stay its own overreaching hand.
And indeed within fifty years of the Persian defeat the dream had faded, and before the end of the century Athens, over-extended abroad and overconfident at home, lay defeated at the mercy of her enemies, a Spartan garrison posted on the Acropolis and democracy in ruins. Much in the intervening years had been magnificent, it is true, but so it might have remained if the Athenians had heeded Herodotus. He had portrayed the Greek victory as a triumph over the barbarian latent in themselves, the hubris that united the invader and the native tyrant as targets of the gods. The Persian downfall, or at least the defeat of their imperialistic ambition, called not only for exultation but for compassion and lasting self-control.
As should be quite obvious, there is much to learn in this for modern times too, but with an added twist. For Hubris did not end its romp through history there. It took on new wings once history started being recorded. Now every new emperor was also competing with history. Alexander had to outdo Xerxes. Caesar had to outdo Alexander. Britain had to outdo Rome. Germany had to outdo Britain. USA had to outdo Britain, etc. A never-ending arms-race with imperial history and the accompanying Hubris that powers it.
So Herodotus, even as he recorded History so as to blunt its devastating force on the lives of men, also unwittingly added new impetus to its influence, by adding the new flavor of recorded glory to the existing receptacle of legendary glory. Hubris drank it up.
鈥淭he conversion of legend-writing into the science of history was not native to the Greek mind, it was a fifth-century invention, and Herodotus was the man who invented it.鈥�
~ R.G. Collingwood
The prime subject of The Histories is the twenty years (499-479 B.C.E) of war between Greece and Persia for domination of the Greek world. However he intersperses this main narrative with plenty of personal interest stories, 鈥渨onders鈥� about firsts and bests, historical parallels and occasionally his own biased judgements, but always making it clear that he is interested only in presenting a viewpoint 鈥� he leaves the act of judgement to the reader. We can safely say that it was Herodotus who helped create the concept of the discipline of 鈥渉istory,鈥� in part by stressing and criticizing his sources and accepted traditions. My job is to record what I have been told, make of it what you will - that is the dominant warning note wherever H鈥檚 authorial voice intervenes in the narrative. That should be the disclaimer all history books should come with.
All the main themes of the book are evident in its beginning and ending, in keeping with the circular narratives that H prefers to adopt. All the intervening incidents act like reinforcements of the overall thrust inherent in the beginning and ending.
The Beginning: The Parallel Rise of Freedom & Empire
We begin with an insecure Hellenic world, just shaking off the shackles of tyranny and tasting real ambition for the first time. Meanwhile in the other end of the world, an existing empire is being shaped into a fearsome tyrannical force by the new Persian rulers. Soon the Persian empire starts to extend ominously outwards and gobbles up most of the known world. This infringes on a core idea of H 鈥� the concept of natural limits and over-extension. Persia is meant to fall. 鈥淭he Small shall become the Big; and the Big shall become the Small.鈥�
As long as empires are driven by ambition, history is doomed to repeat itself.
The gods set limits and do not allow human beings to go beyond them; Herodotus makes it clear that the Persians have to fail in their plan to conquer Greece, because they have overreached their natural boundaries. Xerxes announces his campaign by telling his advisers that he intends to conquer Greece so that 鈥榳e will make Persian territory end only at the sky鈥� (7.8).
The Middle: The Clash of Civilizations
Then we are taken through the many over-extensions of the Persian empire under a succession of rulers (in Ionia, Scythia, etc), until they are poised to encroach upon the newly non-tyrannical Greek world. Here we enter the climactic middle of the narrative and is drenched in the details of the gory encounter. Many heroes, legends and dramatic material is born here and we emerge on the other side with a clear sense that it was Athens, without the yoke of tyranny, that was able to bring down the fearsome war machine of the Persian empire. David has won out against Goliath. This is achieved due to much luck and much pluck, but in the final analysis H seems to imply that the fault was with the hubris of the Persians.
It needs to be pointed out that: H is quite clear that as human beings Persians are on the whole no better and no worse than Greeks. Structurally, however, Xerxes鈥� great expedition to Greece stands as a monument to the dangerous blindness of massive empires and grandiose thinking鈥攂ut it is also the backdrop against which H has been able to present to us the Greeks鈥� love of their homeland, their valor against incredible odds, and their deep desire to preserve their freedom.
So, even as this main narrative concludes, we are shown what is the inevitable result of Hubris that over-extends its own reaches. And of how tyranny in any form is not going to triumph over people who have tasted what freedom means.
The Ending: A Reenactment of The Beginning
Herodotus could have ended there. But he doesn鈥檛. Instead he takes us to the Ending to rub in the message and to instill that message with its true significance 鈥� what is its bearing on the future? For, an investigation of History is meaningless unless it can educate us about the future. And it is the future that H ironically points to as he takes us through the concluding sections of his Histories.
For now it is the turn of the Greeks to over-extend. In the thrill of victory and in the thrall of a thirst for revenge, in the spirit of competition with its own neighbors, Athens and Sparta launch out on its own imperialistic enterprise to mainland Asia. This is to culminate in H鈥檚 own day with the Ionians looking upon Athens as the equivalent of a Tyrant.
The beginning of this period saw the triumph of the Greek mainland states over the might of the Persian Empire, first in the initial invasion of 490 and the battle of Marathon, and then in the second invasion of 480/79, with the battles of Thermopylae, Salamis, Plataea, and finally Mycaleb in Asia Mnor.
This unexpected victory against what seemed like the mightiest empire on Earth resonated in Greek consciousness through the fifth century and indeed beyond. The Greeks in general, and the Athenians in particular, because they had played the major part in the triumph of 鈥淔reedom鈥�, saw these victories as a triumph of right over might, courage over fear, freedom over servitude, moderation over arrogance. It helped crystallize and reinforce Greeks鈥� attitudes to their own newfound way of life and values, intensified their supreme distrust of monarchy and tyranny, and shaped their attitude to the Persians. And after what they visualized as the great struggle for freedom, the people of Athens entered upon a spectacular era of energy and prosperity, one of the great flowering periods of Western civilization.
In more practical terms, Athens鈥� naval success in the Persian Wars and its enterprise immediately after led to the creation of the Athenian Empire, which started as an anti-Persian league and lasted for almost three-quarters of a century (479-404).
H seems to imply that Athens should learn from these investigations of the past, see what Tyranny can do, see the dangers of over-extension, understand the need for balance, respect certain international boundaries, and stay its own overreaching hand.
And indeed within fifty years of the Persian defeat the dream had faded, and before the end of the century Athens, over-extended abroad and overconfident at home, lay defeated at the mercy of her enemies, a Spartan garrison posted on the Acropolis and democracy in ruins. Much in the intervening years had been magnificent, it is true, but so it might have remained if the Athenians had heeded Herodotus. He had portrayed the Greek victory as a triumph over the barbarian latent in themselves, the hubris that united the invader and the native tyrant as targets of the gods. The Persian downfall, or at least the defeat of their imperialistic ambition, called not only for exultation but for compassion and lasting self-control.
As should be quite obvious, there is much to learn in this for modern times too, but with an added twist. For Hubris did not end its romp through history there. It took on new wings once history started being recorded. Now every new emperor was also competing with history. Alexander had to outdo Xerxes. Caesar had to outdo Alexander. Britain had to outdo Rome. Germany had to outdo Britain. USA had to outdo Britain, etc. A never-ending arms-race with imperial history and the accompanying Hubris that powers it.
So Herodotus, even as he recorded History so as to blunt its devastating force on the lives of men, also unwittingly added new impetus to its influence, by adding the new flavor of recorded glory to the existing receptacle of legendary glory. Hubris drank it up.
July 26, 2022
As a history nerd I always had the idea that I would one day read Herodotus. After all he鈥檚 generally regarded as the guy who kicked off the whole show. I had put it off due to the length of the book, but Audible were offering it 鈥渇ree鈥� with my membership for a limited period, and it was that which led me to finally conclude 鈥淚t is time!鈥�
One thing about Audible is that it doesn鈥檛 always tell the reader about the translator. I could tell that the version I had was in 19th century English, and from what I can find out, it seems to be the Rawlinson translation.
Apart from a history the book is also a geography and an ethnology. Herodotus, who was a great traveller, describes the world as it was known to him. The Persian Empire is described in detail, as far as 鈥淚ndia鈥�, which I think are the lands we now know as Pakistan (of course it was all 鈥淚ndia鈥� in Rawlinson鈥檚 day). Egypt is also described in detail, and beyond it lies 鈥淓thiopia鈥�, which I think was the country we now call Sudan. The rest of Africa he calls 鈥淟ibya鈥�, describing how it extends west beyond the Pillars of Hercules, and south to a great sandy desert. Mediterranean Europe is well known but Northern Europe is the subject of garbled rumour. He says he can find out nothing about a northern sea from whence amber is procured (actually true and a reference to the Baltic), nor anything about 鈥渢he Tin Islands鈥�, (probably a reference to The British Isles). He does know of the Danube, which he calls the Ister, and the Black Sea, which he calls the Euxine. To the north of these are the lands of the Scythians, a 鈥渓and without marvels鈥�, excepting huge rivers and 鈥渢he vastness of the plain.鈥�
Herodotus is careful to distinguish hearsay from what he has seen himself. He will frequently make comments along the lines of 鈥淚n this, I merely repeat what the Libyans say鈥� and at other times will repeat a local legend but add that he personally places no credence in it.
One thing I found interesting, if this translation is accurate, is that on a couple of occasions Herodotus seems to suggest that the ancient Egyptians were black-skinned, 鈥渨ith wooly hair鈥�, adding to my own knowledge of the continuing debate on the appearance of the ancient Egyptians, which will of course never be resolved. Opposing Herodotus is the evidence from hieroglyphs and other sources, suggesting that a range of skin tones existed amongst the ancient Egyptians.
In his build-up to the description of the Graeco-Persian Wars, Herodotus describes how the Persians conquered Asia Minor, including the cities of the Ionian Greeks, and how they also conquered Egypt. Subsequent expeditions against the Ethiopians failed, and Herodotus also describes an early example of asymmetrical warfare when he relates how King Darius invaded the lands of the Scythians with a huge army, via Thrace. Being a nomadic people with no cities to defend, the Scythians simply moved away from Darius, driving their herds with them and always keeping at least a day鈥檚 march between themselves and the Persian Army. Darius could do nothing other than simply wander about the plains until his supplies ran out and he had to retreat back across the Danube.
The most dramatic part of the book is of course around the Persian invasions of Greece. The stories of the battles of Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis and Plataea are well-known, but it was great to read the original source material for these events.
There are times when Herodotus gets a little tiresome for the modern reader, and there鈥檚 too much mythology in here, but ultimately I鈥檓 really glad that I鈥檝e finally read 鈥淭he Histories.鈥�
One thing about Audible is that it doesn鈥檛 always tell the reader about the translator. I could tell that the version I had was in 19th century English, and from what I can find out, it seems to be the Rawlinson translation.
Apart from a history the book is also a geography and an ethnology. Herodotus, who was a great traveller, describes the world as it was known to him. The Persian Empire is described in detail, as far as 鈥淚ndia鈥�, which I think are the lands we now know as Pakistan (of course it was all 鈥淚ndia鈥� in Rawlinson鈥檚 day). Egypt is also described in detail, and beyond it lies 鈥淓thiopia鈥�, which I think was the country we now call Sudan. The rest of Africa he calls 鈥淟ibya鈥�, describing how it extends west beyond the Pillars of Hercules, and south to a great sandy desert. Mediterranean Europe is well known but Northern Europe is the subject of garbled rumour. He says he can find out nothing about a northern sea from whence amber is procured (actually true and a reference to the Baltic), nor anything about 鈥渢he Tin Islands鈥�, (probably a reference to The British Isles). He does know of the Danube, which he calls the Ister, and the Black Sea, which he calls the Euxine. To the north of these are the lands of the Scythians, a 鈥渓and without marvels鈥�, excepting huge rivers and 鈥渢he vastness of the plain.鈥�
Herodotus is careful to distinguish hearsay from what he has seen himself. He will frequently make comments along the lines of 鈥淚n this, I merely repeat what the Libyans say鈥� and at other times will repeat a local legend but add that he personally places no credence in it.
One thing I found interesting, if this translation is accurate, is that on a couple of occasions Herodotus seems to suggest that the ancient Egyptians were black-skinned, 鈥渨ith wooly hair鈥�, adding to my own knowledge of the continuing debate on the appearance of the ancient Egyptians, which will of course never be resolved. Opposing Herodotus is the evidence from hieroglyphs and other sources, suggesting that a range of skin tones existed amongst the ancient Egyptians.
In his build-up to the description of the Graeco-Persian Wars, Herodotus describes how the Persians conquered Asia Minor, including the cities of the Ionian Greeks, and how they also conquered Egypt. Subsequent expeditions against the Ethiopians failed, and Herodotus also describes an early example of asymmetrical warfare when he relates how King Darius invaded the lands of the Scythians with a huge army, via Thrace. Being a nomadic people with no cities to defend, the Scythians simply moved away from Darius, driving their herds with them and always keeping at least a day鈥檚 march between themselves and the Persian Army. Darius could do nothing other than simply wander about the plains until his supplies ran out and he had to retreat back across the Danube.
The most dramatic part of the book is of course around the Persian invasions of Greece. The stories of the battles of Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis and Plataea are well-known, but it was great to read the original source material for these events.
There are times when Herodotus gets a little tiresome for the modern reader, and there鈥檚 too much mythology in here, but ultimately I鈥檓 really glad that I鈥檝e finally read 鈥淭he Histories.鈥�
April 10, 2009
The kids bought me this for Christmas and it is a thing of infinite beauty. I鈥檝e been meaning to read these histories for years and never quite got around to it. I had never realised quite how remarkable this book would be.
This version of the book is the third that I now own 鈥� I鈥檝e also got a copy of the Penguin Classics and I鈥檝e just finished listening to this as a talking book. But I am going to make my way through this book eventually, as it is hard to focus on many of the details of the wars and so on without a decent map in front of you to refer to 鈥� and this book has lots of maps and drawings and other illustrations, although, annoyingly, no illustration of the Egyptian labyrinth which Herodotus said was even more remarkable than the pyramids.
Along the way Herodotus tells some incredible stories. Some of them sound like they are straight out of the 1001 nights. Others make your jaw drop open.
There are also discussions of things like what is the source of the Nile, that really have whetted my curiosity to read more about the 19th century types who finally discovered the source. Now, why was this such a big question in the ancient world? Well, the problem was that the Nile seemed to come out of the desert and that isn鈥檛 exactly the sort of place where you would expect to find lots and lots of water. The winds that came for where the Nile seemed to flow out from were also always hot 鈥� and so the idea that perhaps the water in the Nile swelled once a year due to the melting of snow (although partly reasonable, obviously) didn鈥檛 seem to make a lot of sense when you thought that the river was coming out of a desert (deserts being the natural enemy of snow). It really is fascinating listening to Herodotus discussing these speculations about the source of the Nile and the paradoxes such speculations provided.
In the immortal words of Bob Dylan, 鈥淭here ain鈥檛 no limit to the amount of trouble women bring鈥�. There are interesting asides about the Trojan war and how Herodotus speculates that Helen was probably dead by the time of the war started and so when the Greeks asked for the Trojans to hand her over they literally couldn鈥檛. He can鈥檛 see why else they would have allowed their civilisation to be crushed for the sake of one woman, beautiful or not.
There is a woman who commanded a ship on the side of the Persians, there are women who come back as ghosts and complain about being cold (which their husband should know as the last time he tried to bake his bread the oven was cold 鈥� this would have taken me a while to understand if Herodotus did not explain that the husband had lain with her after she had died.) But this is not really a history that involves many women 鈥� this is a story about blokes doing what blokes like most 鈥� killing other blokes.
All the same, my favourite bit of this came quite early in the piece. The story of the theft of Rhampsinitos鈥� treasure. I鈥檓 going to give you the short McCandless version of this as it really is a wonderful story and I can鈥檛 leave this review without talking about it.
When Rhampsinitos (an Egyptian king) decided to have a place built for his treasure he didn鈥檛 know that the builder would put a stone into the works that could be easily removed. The builder told his sons about this stone as he lay dying and once the builder had died his sons nipped around to the king鈥檚 treasury and helped themselves to the riches inside. The king noticed this sudden loss of wealth and set a trap to capture those who were all too frequently popping in and stealing his goodies. The trap was quite successful and one of the brothers ended up getting caught. He told his other brother to cut off his head so that they wouldn鈥檛 both be discovered. This his all too obliging brother did. The king then had a body without a head in his treasury, but still had no idea how anyone could get into the treasury room without breaking any of the seals on the locks.
So, he had the body of the thief hung up and guarded so that whoever cried in front of it would be brought before him. The thief who had cut off his brother鈥檚 head was then told by his mother that he had better do something to rescue his brother鈥檚 body or else all hell would break lose. He came up with a plan to get the guards drunk and to steal the body, which he did and also shaved half of their beards off to make sure they quite understood how stupid they had been made to look. The king was, needless to say, bloody furious. (I did mention this reminded me of the 1001 nights, yeah?) Anyway, the king then decides to get his daughter to work in a brothel, but before she sleeps with anyone she is to ask them what is the worst thing they have ever done and if any of them say anything like they cut off their brother鈥檚 head and stole his body from the king鈥檚 guards, she is to grab hold of him and call for the police (or whatever the Egyptian equivalent was at the time). The thief decides to play along, and goes to the brothel with the severed arm of a freshly dead corpse under his jumper. When he tells the king鈥檚 daughter about his exploits she makes a grab for him and he holds out the dead man鈥檚 arm, which she holds onto while the thief cleverly makes his escape. The king is so impressed with this man鈥檚 exploits that he begs him to come forward and receive a reward, which he does and ends up getting to marry the king鈥檚 daughter 鈥� I assume the daughter he gets to marry is the prostitute mentioned earlier, but I guess no one actually ever called her that to her face.
The best bit of this is that it shows something Herodotus does the whole way through these histories. He will be telling one of these stories and suddenly they will start to become completely unbelievable and he will say, 鈥渙f course, I don鈥檛 believe this stuff for a minute, but this is the story I was told in Egypt and what would you have me do? I have to tell you what I was told.鈥�
The other story that held me enthralled was of the self-mutilation of Zopyros 鈥� honestly, this is utterly remarkable. It is worth reading the book just for this story alone.
There are lots of occasions where fathers are forced to do horrible things to their sons 鈥� my favourite is the story of a king who punishes one of his advisors by feeding him his son as the meat portion of a feast. The king then leaves this advisor in a position where he can revenge himself on the king. You know, if I was to feed someone their own child I would probably kill him straight away afterwards 鈥� call me overly cautious, but I鈥檝e a sneaking suspicion that the person who has feed you the flesh of one of your kids is never going to be one of you best friends ever again, no matter what else they do for you.
This book is fantastic and the Landmark edition is like its name implies, really something special.
This version of the book is the third that I now own 鈥� I鈥檝e also got a copy of the Penguin Classics and I鈥檝e just finished listening to this as a talking book. But I am going to make my way through this book eventually, as it is hard to focus on many of the details of the wars and so on without a decent map in front of you to refer to 鈥� and this book has lots of maps and drawings and other illustrations, although, annoyingly, no illustration of the Egyptian labyrinth which Herodotus said was even more remarkable than the pyramids.
Along the way Herodotus tells some incredible stories. Some of them sound like they are straight out of the 1001 nights. Others make your jaw drop open.
There are also discussions of things like what is the source of the Nile, that really have whetted my curiosity to read more about the 19th century types who finally discovered the source. Now, why was this such a big question in the ancient world? Well, the problem was that the Nile seemed to come out of the desert and that isn鈥檛 exactly the sort of place where you would expect to find lots and lots of water. The winds that came for where the Nile seemed to flow out from were also always hot 鈥� and so the idea that perhaps the water in the Nile swelled once a year due to the melting of snow (although partly reasonable, obviously) didn鈥檛 seem to make a lot of sense when you thought that the river was coming out of a desert (deserts being the natural enemy of snow). It really is fascinating listening to Herodotus discussing these speculations about the source of the Nile and the paradoxes such speculations provided.
In the immortal words of Bob Dylan, 鈥淭here ain鈥檛 no limit to the amount of trouble women bring鈥�. There are interesting asides about the Trojan war and how Herodotus speculates that Helen was probably dead by the time of the war started and so when the Greeks asked for the Trojans to hand her over they literally couldn鈥檛. He can鈥檛 see why else they would have allowed their civilisation to be crushed for the sake of one woman, beautiful or not.
There is a woman who commanded a ship on the side of the Persians, there are women who come back as ghosts and complain about being cold (which their husband should know as the last time he tried to bake his bread the oven was cold 鈥� this would have taken me a while to understand if Herodotus did not explain that the husband had lain with her after she had died.) But this is not really a history that involves many women 鈥� this is a story about blokes doing what blokes like most 鈥� killing other blokes.
All the same, my favourite bit of this came quite early in the piece. The story of the theft of Rhampsinitos鈥� treasure. I鈥檓 going to give you the short McCandless version of this as it really is a wonderful story and I can鈥檛 leave this review without talking about it.
When Rhampsinitos (an Egyptian king) decided to have a place built for his treasure he didn鈥檛 know that the builder would put a stone into the works that could be easily removed. The builder told his sons about this stone as he lay dying and once the builder had died his sons nipped around to the king鈥檚 treasury and helped themselves to the riches inside. The king noticed this sudden loss of wealth and set a trap to capture those who were all too frequently popping in and stealing his goodies. The trap was quite successful and one of the brothers ended up getting caught. He told his other brother to cut off his head so that they wouldn鈥檛 both be discovered. This his all too obliging brother did. The king then had a body without a head in his treasury, but still had no idea how anyone could get into the treasury room without breaking any of the seals on the locks.
So, he had the body of the thief hung up and guarded so that whoever cried in front of it would be brought before him. The thief who had cut off his brother鈥檚 head was then told by his mother that he had better do something to rescue his brother鈥檚 body or else all hell would break lose. He came up with a plan to get the guards drunk and to steal the body, which he did and also shaved half of their beards off to make sure they quite understood how stupid they had been made to look. The king was, needless to say, bloody furious. (I did mention this reminded me of the 1001 nights, yeah?) Anyway, the king then decides to get his daughter to work in a brothel, but before she sleeps with anyone she is to ask them what is the worst thing they have ever done and if any of them say anything like they cut off their brother鈥檚 head and stole his body from the king鈥檚 guards, she is to grab hold of him and call for the police (or whatever the Egyptian equivalent was at the time). The thief decides to play along, and goes to the brothel with the severed arm of a freshly dead corpse under his jumper. When he tells the king鈥檚 daughter about his exploits she makes a grab for him and he holds out the dead man鈥檚 arm, which she holds onto while the thief cleverly makes his escape. The king is so impressed with this man鈥檚 exploits that he begs him to come forward and receive a reward, which he does and ends up getting to marry the king鈥檚 daughter 鈥� I assume the daughter he gets to marry is the prostitute mentioned earlier, but I guess no one actually ever called her that to her face.
The best bit of this is that it shows something Herodotus does the whole way through these histories. He will be telling one of these stories and suddenly they will start to become completely unbelievable and he will say, 鈥渙f course, I don鈥檛 believe this stuff for a minute, but this is the story I was told in Egypt and what would you have me do? I have to tell you what I was told.鈥�
The other story that held me enthralled was of the self-mutilation of Zopyros 鈥� honestly, this is utterly remarkable. It is worth reading the book just for this story alone.
There are lots of occasions where fathers are forced to do horrible things to their sons 鈥� my favourite is the story of a king who punishes one of his advisors by feeding him his son as the meat portion of a feast. The king then leaves this advisor in a position where he can revenge himself on the king. You know, if I was to feed someone their own child I would probably kill him straight away afterwards 鈥� call me overly cautious, but I鈥檝e a sneaking suspicion that the person who has feed you the flesh of one of your kids is never going to be one of you best friends ever again, no matter what else they do for you.
This book is fantastic and the Landmark edition is like its name implies, really something special.
April 28, 2025
鈥淗erodotus was the Father of History.鈥� Fans of The English Patient will remember how often the main character, the enigmatic Hungarian count-turned-archaeologist L谩szl贸 de Alm谩sy, utters those words (quoting Cicero in the process). Indeed, Alm谩sy鈥檚 personal copy of Herodotus鈥� Histories, with mementoes from various periods of his life pasted inside, becomes the key to his story of an ill-fated love affair amidst the turmoil of war. And more than 2000 years after Herodotus of Halicarnassus first set down his history of the major states and empires of the Mediterranean basin from the beginnings of recorded history, students of history still turn to Herodotus to learn how history should be written. The Father of History he remains.
When Herodotus wrote the Histories in 440 B.C., the Persian Wars were just forty years in the past, like the Vietnam conflict for Americans today; accordingly, it is no surprise that Herodotus opens the Histories by describing the thematic terms in which he plans to frame his work of history:
鈥淗erodotus of Halicarnassus here displays his inquiry, so that human achievements may not be forgotten in time, and great and marvelous deeds 鈥� some displayed by Greeks, some by barbarians 鈥� may not be without their glory; and especially to explain why the two peoples fought with each other.鈥� (p. 3)
Please note that Herodotus is engaging in a task of inquiry-based learning. Like all the good historians who have come after him, he is not starting with an axe to grind; he plans to ask questions and see where the factually correct and truthful answers take him. He focuses upon observable facts from his time 鈥� the recent conflict between Greek and non-Greek states, and specifically between Greece and Persia 鈥� and works to ascertain where the original causes of those conflicts may be found. The reader notes also Herodotus鈥� determination to be fair-minded, and to assign credit or blame wherever it is legitimately due.
Herodotus was not only a diligent researcher but also a seasoned traveler; accordingly, he writes with the authority of lived experience and observation in passages like the one where he comments on what various writers have claimed regarding the Nile River in Egypt: 鈥淚 have observed for myself that Egypt at the Nile Delta projects into the sea beyond the coast on either side; I have seen shells on the hills and noticed how salt exudes from the soil to such an extent that it affects even the pyramids鈥� (p. 99).
Herodotus offers comparably extensive description of local customs, as when he describes various tribes of Libya. The women of the Adrymachidae 鈥渨ear a bronze ring on each leg, and grow their hair long; when they catch a bug on their persons, they give it bite for bite before throwing it away鈥� (p. 299). The Macae, by contrast, 鈥渨ear their hair in the form of a crest, shaving it close on either side of the head and letting it grow long in the middle; in war they carry ostrich skins for shields鈥� (p. 301).
Among the many features of classical historiography that Herodotus seems to have given the world is the tradition of reproducing important speeches at full length, even when it is not clear who the contemporary authority for the speech is, or how accurately the speech was transcribed. A characteristic example occurs when the Achaemenid emperor Cambyses II responds to a prophecy that someone named Smerdis will usurp the throne by having his own brother Smerdis murdered 鈥� only to learn afterwards that a real rebellion against him is being fomented by two Magi, one of whose name is Smerdis! Fatally wounded by an accidental sword injury, Cambyses still has time to give a long speech in which, among other things, he takes responsibility for what he has done: 鈥淔ailing to grasp the true nature of what was in store for me, I murdered my brother for nothing, and have lost my kingdom just the same鈥� (p. 199).
For modern readers, a highlight of the Histories is likely to be Herodotus鈥� account of how the Athenians under the leadership of Miltiades defeated the Persians at the battle of Marathon in 490 B.C. Herodotus鈥� pride in the Athenians鈥� valour is palpable in passages like the one where he describes how 鈥渢he Athenians came on, closed with the enemy all along the line, and fought in a way not to be forgotten; they were the first Greeks, so far as we know, to charge at a run, and the first who dared to look without flinching at Persian dress and the men who wore it; for until that day came, no Greek could hear even the word 鈥楶ersian鈥� without terror鈥� (p. 401).
Reading that passage made me think of how many American historians of the Revolutionary War, particularly during the early 19th century, emphasized the way Americans' hearts swelled with pride as New England militiamen and soldiers of the United Colonies showed themselves capable of standing up to tough British regulars in the war鈥檚 early battles such as Lexington/Concord and Bunker Hill. No doubt those historians had read their Herodotus as part of their classical education; consciously or unconsciously, they emulated Herodotus鈥� structure and approach in their own work. True, the casualty figures that Herodotus cites for the battle of Marathon 鈥� 6400 casualties for the Persians, to only 192 for the Athenians 鈥� may seem, from the Greek perspective, too good to be true; but the historical importance of the event, and of the way in which Herodotus recounted the event, nonetheless remains evident.
(Please note, however, that you will not find in Herodotus the well-known story of Pheidippides, the courier who is said to have made the 26-mile, 385-yard-long run from Marathon to Athens, gasping out to the waiting Athenians the words 鈥淛oy to you, we鈥檝e won!鈥� before falling dead. For that story, you must go to the Roman author Lucian, writing 500 years later.)
Herodotus鈥� account of how the Spartans, under the leadership of their warrior-king Leonidas, defended the pass of Thermopylae in 480 B.C., at the height of the Second Persian War, is another highlight of the Histories that is likely to resonate with many modern readers, especially in this era when the Spartan heroes of the Frank Miller graphic novel 300 (1998) and its two film adaptations have established a firm foothold in modern popular culture. Herodotus emphasizes the arrogance of the Persian emperor Xerxes in dismissing the warnings of the exiled Spartan king Demaratus that 鈥淵ou have now to deal with the finest kingdom in Greece, and with the bravest men鈥� (p. 489). (Xerxes comes across as a thoroughly evil man in the Histories; the story of the cruelty he inflicted when his passion for the wife of his brother Masistes went unfulfilled is blood-chilling.)
One of the finest passages of narrative and descriptive writing in the Histories 鈥� one that has no doubt inspired many writers of military history in the 2400 years since Herodotus composed this work 鈥� sets forth the climax of the battle of Thermopylae, after the Spartans have been betrayed by one Ephialtes, a Greek who showed the Persians a mountain track that would enable them to render the defence of the pass impossible:
鈥淎s the Persian army advanced to the assault, the Greeks under Leonidas, knowing that they were going to their deaths, went out into the wider part of the pass much further than they had done before; in the previous days鈥� fighting they had been holding the wall and making sorties from behind it into the narrow neck, but now they fought outside the narrows. Many of the barbarians fell; behind them the company commanders plied their whips indiscriminately, driving the men on. Many fell into the sea and were drowned, and still more were trampled to death by one another. No one could count the number of the dead. The Greeks, who knew that the enemy were on their way round by the mountain track and that death was inevitable, put forth all their strength and fought with fury and desperation. By this time most of their spears were broken, and they were killing Persians with their swords. In the course of that fight Leonidas fell, having fought most gallantly鈥︹€� (pp. 493-94)
And Herodotus includes the epitaphs inscribed at Thermopylae after the Greek victory in the war 鈥� one that has been reproduced as a modern stone inscription, for present-day visitors to the pass:
峤� 尉蔚峥栁�', 峒€纬纬苇位位蔚喂谓 螞伪魏蔚未伪喂渭慰谓委慰喂蟼 峤呄勎� 蟿峥囄次�
魏蔚委渭蔚胃伪, 蟿慰峥栂� 魏蔚委谓蠅谓 峥ノ嘉毕兾� 蟺蔚喂胃蠈渭蔚谓慰喂.
鈥淕o tell the Spartans, you who read:
We took their orders, and here lie dead.鈥� (p. 495)
It is perhaps the most famous passage in all the Histories, and one that has unquestionably had a profound influence on the way later historians have written about similar battles in later years. For American readers, the battles of the Alamo and the Little Bighorn are likely to stand out as relevant examples.
The continuing influence of Herodotus鈥� Histories can be easily seen in many areas of modern life. Students of the American Civil War, for example, will recall that Shelby Foote, in composing his epic three-volume history The Civil War: A Narrative (1958-74), consciously drew upon his own reading of Herodotus in crafting a work of history that is truly Herodotean in its storytelling sweep and stylistic grace.
And because I grew up in Cold War times, I recall how often American leaders during the Cold War spoke of an 鈥渋nevitable conflict鈥� between West and East, between NATO and the Warsaw Pact, between the United States of America and the Soviet Union. And I wonder how many of those leaders had read their Herodotus and had been influenced by his presentation of the 鈥渋nevitable conflicts鈥� of his time 鈥� between West and East, between Hellenes and 鈥渂arbarians,鈥� between the Greek city-states and the Persian Empire. As long as the history of nations and their wars is set down, Herodotus and his Histories will continue to exert that sort of influence.
When Herodotus wrote the Histories in 440 B.C., the Persian Wars were just forty years in the past, like the Vietnam conflict for Americans today; accordingly, it is no surprise that Herodotus opens the Histories by describing the thematic terms in which he plans to frame his work of history:
鈥淗erodotus of Halicarnassus here displays his inquiry, so that human achievements may not be forgotten in time, and great and marvelous deeds 鈥� some displayed by Greeks, some by barbarians 鈥� may not be without their glory; and especially to explain why the two peoples fought with each other.鈥� (p. 3)
Please note that Herodotus is engaging in a task of inquiry-based learning. Like all the good historians who have come after him, he is not starting with an axe to grind; he plans to ask questions and see where the factually correct and truthful answers take him. He focuses upon observable facts from his time 鈥� the recent conflict between Greek and non-Greek states, and specifically between Greece and Persia 鈥� and works to ascertain where the original causes of those conflicts may be found. The reader notes also Herodotus鈥� determination to be fair-minded, and to assign credit or blame wherever it is legitimately due.
Herodotus was not only a diligent researcher but also a seasoned traveler; accordingly, he writes with the authority of lived experience and observation in passages like the one where he comments on what various writers have claimed regarding the Nile River in Egypt: 鈥淚 have observed for myself that Egypt at the Nile Delta projects into the sea beyond the coast on either side; I have seen shells on the hills and noticed how salt exudes from the soil to such an extent that it affects even the pyramids鈥� (p. 99).
Herodotus offers comparably extensive description of local customs, as when he describes various tribes of Libya. The women of the Adrymachidae 鈥渨ear a bronze ring on each leg, and grow their hair long; when they catch a bug on their persons, they give it bite for bite before throwing it away鈥� (p. 299). The Macae, by contrast, 鈥渨ear their hair in the form of a crest, shaving it close on either side of the head and letting it grow long in the middle; in war they carry ostrich skins for shields鈥� (p. 301).
Among the many features of classical historiography that Herodotus seems to have given the world is the tradition of reproducing important speeches at full length, even when it is not clear who the contemporary authority for the speech is, or how accurately the speech was transcribed. A characteristic example occurs when the Achaemenid emperor Cambyses II responds to a prophecy that someone named Smerdis will usurp the throne by having his own brother Smerdis murdered 鈥� only to learn afterwards that a real rebellion against him is being fomented by two Magi, one of whose name is Smerdis! Fatally wounded by an accidental sword injury, Cambyses still has time to give a long speech in which, among other things, he takes responsibility for what he has done: 鈥淔ailing to grasp the true nature of what was in store for me, I murdered my brother for nothing, and have lost my kingdom just the same鈥� (p. 199).
For modern readers, a highlight of the Histories is likely to be Herodotus鈥� account of how the Athenians under the leadership of Miltiades defeated the Persians at the battle of Marathon in 490 B.C. Herodotus鈥� pride in the Athenians鈥� valour is palpable in passages like the one where he describes how 鈥渢he Athenians came on, closed with the enemy all along the line, and fought in a way not to be forgotten; they were the first Greeks, so far as we know, to charge at a run, and the first who dared to look without flinching at Persian dress and the men who wore it; for until that day came, no Greek could hear even the word 鈥楶ersian鈥� without terror鈥� (p. 401).
Reading that passage made me think of how many American historians of the Revolutionary War, particularly during the early 19th century, emphasized the way Americans' hearts swelled with pride as New England militiamen and soldiers of the United Colonies showed themselves capable of standing up to tough British regulars in the war鈥檚 early battles such as Lexington/Concord and Bunker Hill. No doubt those historians had read their Herodotus as part of their classical education; consciously or unconsciously, they emulated Herodotus鈥� structure and approach in their own work. True, the casualty figures that Herodotus cites for the battle of Marathon 鈥� 6400 casualties for the Persians, to only 192 for the Athenians 鈥� may seem, from the Greek perspective, too good to be true; but the historical importance of the event, and of the way in which Herodotus recounted the event, nonetheless remains evident.
(Please note, however, that you will not find in Herodotus the well-known story of Pheidippides, the courier who is said to have made the 26-mile, 385-yard-long run from Marathon to Athens, gasping out to the waiting Athenians the words 鈥淛oy to you, we鈥檝e won!鈥� before falling dead. For that story, you must go to the Roman author Lucian, writing 500 years later.)
Herodotus鈥� account of how the Spartans, under the leadership of their warrior-king Leonidas, defended the pass of Thermopylae in 480 B.C., at the height of the Second Persian War, is another highlight of the Histories that is likely to resonate with many modern readers, especially in this era when the Spartan heroes of the Frank Miller graphic novel 300 (1998) and its two film adaptations have established a firm foothold in modern popular culture. Herodotus emphasizes the arrogance of the Persian emperor Xerxes in dismissing the warnings of the exiled Spartan king Demaratus that 鈥淵ou have now to deal with the finest kingdom in Greece, and with the bravest men鈥� (p. 489). (Xerxes comes across as a thoroughly evil man in the Histories; the story of the cruelty he inflicted when his passion for the wife of his brother Masistes went unfulfilled is blood-chilling.)
One of the finest passages of narrative and descriptive writing in the Histories 鈥� one that has no doubt inspired many writers of military history in the 2400 years since Herodotus composed this work 鈥� sets forth the climax of the battle of Thermopylae, after the Spartans have been betrayed by one Ephialtes, a Greek who showed the Persians a mountain track that would enable them to render the defence of the pass impossible:
鈥淎s the Persian army advanced to the assault, the Greeks under Leonidas, knowing that they were going to their deaths, went out into the wider part of the pass much further than they had done before; in the previous days鈥� fighting they had been holding the wall and making sorties from behind it into the narrow neck, but now they fought outside the narrows. Many of the barbarians fell; behind them the company commanders plied their whips indiscriminately, driving the men on. Many fell into the sea and were drowned, and still more were trampled to death by one another. No one could count the number of the dead. The Greeks, who knew that the enemy were on their way round by the mountain track and that death was inevitable, put forth all their strength and fought with fury and desperation. By this time most of their spears were broken, and they were killing Persians with their swords. In the course of that fight Leonidas fell, having fought most gallantly鈥︹€� (pp. 493-94)
And Herodotus includes the epitaphs inscribed at Thermopylae after the Greek victory in the war 鈥� one that has been reproduced as a modern stone inscription, for present-day visitors to the pass:
峤� 尉蔚峥栁�', 峒€纬纬苇位位蔚喂谓 螞伪魏蔚未伪喂渭慰谓委慰喂蟼 峤呄勎� 蟿峥囄次�
魏蔚委渭蔚胃伪, 蟿慰峥栂� 魏蔚委谓蠅谓 峥ノ嘉毕兾� 蟺蔚喂胃蠈渭蔚谓慰喂.
鈥淕o tell the Spartans, you who read:
We took their orders, and here lie dead.鈥� (p. 495)
It is perhaps the most famous passage in all the Histories, and one that has unquestionably had a profound influence on the way later historians have written about similar battles in later years. For American readers, the battles of the Alamo and the Little Bighorn are likely to stand out as relevant examples.
The continuing influence of Herodotus鈥� Histories can be easily seen in many areas of modern life. Students of the American Civil War, for example, will recall that Shelby Foote, in composing his epic three-volume history The Civil War: A Narrative (1958-74), consciously drew upon his own reading of Herodotus in crafting a work of history that is truly Herodotean in its storytelling sweep and stylistic grace.
And because I grew up in Cold War times, I recall how often American leaders during the Cold War spoke of an 鈥渋nevitable conflict鈥� between West and East, between NATO and the Warsaw Pact, between the United States of America and the Soviet Union. And I wonder how many of those leaders had read their Herodotus and had been influenced by his presentation of the 鈥渋nevitable conflicts鈥� of his time 鈥� between West and East, between Hellenes and 鈥渂arbarians,鈥� between the Greek city-states and the Persian Empire. As long as the history of nations and their wars is set down, Herodotus and his Histories will continue to exert that sort of influence.
January 4, 2018
I think I would like to invite my 欧宝娱乐 friends to browse any Book you like, then take heart to start with Book I as the inception of the whole inquiry unthinkable to those Greek scholars at that time, but Herodotus could make it and you cannot help admiring him when you read his famous preamble:
This preamble, I think, in the 1970 edition may entice you as well:
Moreover, the one in this 1988 edition published by the University of Chicago Press is also interesting:
First of all, don't be intimidated by its length, that is, 543 pages in the 1996 Penguin edition, please find any translation you're familiar with its style or wording then keep reading a few pages once in a while, don't hope to finish it in a few days/weeks since it's one of the masterpieces in ancient history, you need time to think, take notes and ask yourself why.
Secondly, this is definitely his magnum opus for posterity of all nations to read, reflect and interpret in terms of reciprocal toleration as fellow human beings so that we learn not to make unthinkable mistakes again. In many engagements there, you can witness various unimaginably ruthless deeds instigated by the powers that be, fate and godlike valour of those true Greek and Persian soldiers. Those fallen heroes including all innumerable soldiers killed in various battles deserve our respect with awe, admiration and gratitude as our exemplary models of humankind.
And finally, scholars should honour and keep him in mind since Cicero called him 'the father of history' and we can enjoy reading his second to none narrative. However, some chapters might not be interesting when he sometime told us about the flora/fauna seemingly unrelated to the looming hostilities. I take them as relaxing moments and we can learn from what he told us frankly and good-humoredly. Those ruthless war scenes, for instance from Chapter 20 onwards in Book IX, are amazingly described to the extent that we can visualize such ruthless gory scenes with increasingly stupefying horror in which it is hopelessly put into words.
That's it and I think I would reread the University of Chicago version for solace and advice in there whenever I'm free from work. It'd teach us of course to mind our own business, be kind, have mercy towards our fellow colleagues, friends, cousins, etc. since we all have limited time to live on earth.
Note: In fact, I have another Penguin copy with its front cover showing a painted vase depicting two soldiers in action (Persian vs. Greek), not this one so the page numbers as mentioned above may vary. Therefore, I've reposted my review since I don't know how to return to its previous book cover.
Herodotus of Halicarnassus here displays his inquiry, so that human achievements may not become forgotten in time, and great and marvellous deeds -- some displayed by Greeks, some by barbarians -- may not be without their glory; and especially to show why the two people fought each other. (p. 4)
This preamble, I think, in the 1970 edition may entice you as well:
HERODOTUS of Halicarnassus, his Researches are here set down to preserve the memory of the past by putting on record the astonishing achievements both of our own and of other peoples; and more particularly, to show how they came into conflict. (p. 41)
Moreover, the one in this 1988 edition published by the University of Chicago Press is also interesting:
I, Herodotus of Harlicarnassus, am here setting forth my history, that time may not draw the color from what man has brought into being, nor those great and wonderful deeds, manifested by both Greeks and barbarians, fail of their report, and, together with all this, the reason why they fought one another. (p. 33)
First of all, don't be intimidated by its length, that is, 543 pages in the 1996 Penguin edition, please find any translation you're familiar with its style or wording then keep reading a few pages once in a while, don't hope to finish it in a few days/weeks since it's one of the masterpieces in ancient history, you need time to think, take notes and ask yourself why.
Secondly, this is definitely his magnum opus for posterity of all nations to read, reflect and interpret in terms of reciprocal toleration as fellow human beings so that we learn not to make unthinkable mistakes again. In many engagements there, you can witness various unimaginably ruthless deeds instigated by the powers that be, fate and godlike valour of those true Greek and Persian soldiers. Those fallen heroes including all innumerable soldiers killed in various battles deserve our respect with awe, admiration and gratitude as our exemplary models of humankind.
And finally, scholars should honour and keep him in mind since Cicero called him 'the father of history' and we can enjoy reading his second to none narrative. However, some chapters might not be interesting when he sometime told us about the flora/fauna seemingly unrelated to the looming hostilities. I take them as relaxing moments and we can learn from what he told us frankly and good-humoredly. Those ruthless war scenes, for instance from Chapter 20 onwards in Book IX, are amazingly described to the extent that we can visualize such ruthless gory scenes with increasingly stupefying horror in which it is hopelessly put into words.
That's it and I think I would reread the University of Chicago version for solace and advice in there whenever I'm free from work. It'd teach us of course to mind our own business, be kind, have mercy towards our fellow colleagues, friends, cousins, etc. since we all have limited time to live on earth.
Note: In fact, I have another Penguin copy with its front cover showing a painted vase depicting two soldiers in action (Persian vs. Greek), not this one so the page numbers as mentioned above may vary. Therefore, I've reposted my review since I don't know how to return to its previous book cover.
January 14, 2014
It wasn't just Vollmann's fourth reference to Herodotus in a span of 20 pages in Rising Up and Rising Down, it was the reality and shame that I'm in my 40s and the most I know about the war between Persia and the Hellenic city states is what I learned from the movie 300. Thus, The Histories.
First: I can't imagine what it would have been like reading these nine books by Herodotus in any format other than this simply amazingly researched and presented volume. The Landmark has to be the final word on Herodotus: the maps, the footnotes, the appendices, indices, forwards and notes - it is an astounding collection created for the layperson like me to approach a subject that is seemingly dry and yawn-worthy. But The Histories is anything but boring. At times, even page-turning, jaw-dropping awesome. When you say to your partner, "Honey, listen to this -" and then quote Herodotus, you know something amazing has happened.
Herodotus does more than just recount tales of war, he goes to great lengths to describe the culture and the history of dozens of the denizens in his world. An astounding undertaking in any age - made even more incredible given that this was written 600+ BCE. His even-handed histories and details of Persia, a nation looking to conquer and subjugate his own, is an astounding feat of scholarship and academia - even before those words had meaning.
I was so impressed with The Landmark that I purchased their publications on Thucydides and Xenophon. By the time I've finished both of those, I'll be able to play horseshit bingo the next time I watch 300.
First: I can't imagine what it would have been like reading these nine books by Herodotus in any format other than this simply amazingly researched and presented volume. The Landmark has to be the final word on Herodotus: the maps, the footnotes, the appendices, indices, forwards and notes - it is an astounding collection created for the layperson like me to approach a subject that is seemingly dry and yawn-worthy. But The Histories is anything but boring. At times, even page-turning, jaw-dropping awesome. When you say to your partner, "Honey, listen to this -" and then quote Herodotus, you know something amazing has happened.
Herodotus does more than just recount tales of war, he goes to great lengths to describe the culture and the history of dozens of the denizens in his world. An astounding undertaking in any age - made even more incredible given that this was written 600+ BCE. His even-handed histories and details of Persia, a nation looking to conquer and subjugate his own, is an astounding feat of scholarship and academia - even before those words had meaning.
I was so impressed with The Landmark that I purchased their publications on Thucydides and Xenophon. By the time I've finished both of those, I'll be able to play horseshit bingo the next time I watch 300.
September 11, 2023
When reading this book, I was a bit obsessed, something that is not out of the ordinary for me when reading a book that I thoroughly enjoy, and I found myself incessantly offering up unsolicited little tales from the histories to friends and family, finding good use of these stories in many situations in my life, especially when someone was complaining about the present. Little consolations, you could call them. Calls to reality. Someone would say,
"Oh, thank God it鈥檚 Friday, this week has been pure hell!"
to which I would respond,
"be glad it鈥檚 not the week that the Persians came to your city like they did to Barce, whose men ended up impaled on poles around the city walls, then whose wives' breasts were cut off and pinned on the wall next to them. That sounds a little bit more hell-like to me. I mean, it鈥檚 all about perspective, right guys!?"
Or when the people in my life complained about how bad the world is today, I would shell out gruesome tales from Herodotus to remind them just how good it actually is for us in terms of pain and suffering. I found this whole sharing-of-Herodotus thing to be quite cathartic. Maybe, I should take up writing inspirational, encouraging, and consoling hallmark cards utilizing gruesome tales from ancient history. Not an entirely bad idea, I don't think. Sharing some of these stories is a wonderful way of dropping a bomb on political discourse between the right and the left too! The left complaining about oppression, justice, and inequality, brought on by the right And the right complaining about the impending doom of the apocalypse brought on by the left. It is very easy through many of these tales to bring a better perspective to both of these extreme views. But, my dad ended up asking me a question that I think is important to address, something that we should all contemplate, he was understandably annoyed I think, by the fact that I had talked about nothing else but Herodotus for several weeks, and asked, 鈥淲hy should I care about this Herodotus guy at all. Who cares?鈥�
So, as fascinating to me personally as all of these enquiries of Herodotus are, and as consoling as they are to me personally, my dad鈥檚 comment put the brakes on my excitement and got me thinking. Well, what exactly is the point to all of this? And Why should I care? All of this history is kind of pointless unless we鈥檙e able to utilize this information in some way.
So, why read Herodotus?
Or, why study history at all?
I鈥檓 gonna offer up what I think are three important reasons. That are helpful to all of mankind.
1. History teaches us to think critically
2. History helps us understand the present
3. History teaches us to be humble
History provides us with the tools to think critically, as students of history we evaluate evidence rationally and with an open-mind, letting the evidence guide us. It is obvious in the world that we live in today with constant misinformation and the seemingly ever expansive lack of critical thinking abilities employed in modern discourse that our society would largely benefit from the use of the critical thinking skills that are required of us as students of history.
History provides us with the tools to better understand the present, and through the critical analysis of past events history helps us to better maneuver future dilemmas. The famous aphorism 鈥渢hose who don鈥檛 learn from history are doomed to repeat it鈥� rings true in that as the Preacher of Ecclesiastes says, 鈥淭here is nothing new under the sun鈥� Humanity is sinful and broken and falls into the same old traps over and over again in new ways. History helps us to identify these patterns.
Lastly, and most importantly History teaches us to be humble. We all have the tendency to believe that we are the most important beings in the universe, that there is no time before or after our own existence that is as important as today. Especially within our consumerist, psychological, identity-based, self-focused society where we are always looking inside ourselves and zooming in on our time and what is happening immediately around us. We see the world and the events happening around us as the most important, but if we zoom out from our small existence and our small place in time, Like the psalmist was humbled when contemplating the vastness of the night sky, in Psalm 8, wondering who man is that God is mindful of him, we too will begin to be humbled when looking into the vastness of History as we contemplate the reality of our small existence in comparison to the deep space of time that expands out from the present to both past and future. As GK Chesterton said in his book, Orthodoxy: 鈥淚f a man would make his world large, he must be always making himself small.鈥� And the study of history does exactly that.
These first principles of history are found in abundance in Herodotus.
Herodotus (unlike most people of his time and of ours for that matter) does not see the world in terms of black and white. Bad and Good. He does not see Greece as the only ones in the universe that matter. He is aware from the research he has done, and through his contemplation of history and culture that mankind is immensely complex. That each person brings with them a different perspective and worldview seeped through with hundreds or thousands of years of cultural infusion.
He is constantly moving about from tangent to tangent due to the fact that he cannot help himself from being drawn in by these people, and places, with all of their differing customs and traditions, and in his exploration of these things, he leaves for us a sort of guide on how to navigate a complex world of differing worldviews. Something that has never been as relevant to mankind in the way that it is today. Especially in a place like the United States of America were walking down a random street in L.A. or New York, would easily provide a cultural sensory-overload as you take in differing food smells, languages, appearances of different people and imagine their accompanying worldviews. How are we to make sense of anything in a world like this?
I watched a great interview with Tom Holland whose translation of The Histories was published in 2013. He brought to my attention the exemplary tale of Cambyses who was Cyrus鈥檚 elder son. He takes over after Cyrus鈥� death and immediately takes on the Egyptians. He struts into Egypt following his victory over them in battle, and some of the Egyptians were worshiping a calf who they believed to be the God Apis. Cambyses is angered with the Egyptians for celebrating this calf believing that he should have received the same type of celebration. Herodotus then goes on to give us more examples of this Cambyses guy making a fool of himself. That he violated graves in Memphis, mocked the Egyptian Hephaestus in his temple and burned the Cabiri at their shrine. Making it obvious that Cambyses was a bit of a petulant tyrant.
Herodotus writes,
鈥淸3.38] In view of all this, I have no doubt that Cambyses was completely out of his mind; it is the only possible explanation of his assault upon, and mockery of, everything which ancient law and custom have made sacred in Egypt.鈥�
鈥淚f anyone, no matter who, were given the opportunity of choosing from amongst all the nations in the world the set of beliefs which he thought best, he would inevitably - after careful considerations of their relative merits - choose that of his own country. Everyone without exception believes his own native customs, and the religion he was brought up in, to be the best; and that being so, it is unlikely that anyone but a madman would mock at such things. There is abundant evidence that this is the universal feeling about the ancient customs of one's country.鈥�
What Herodotus does here through this amazing story is to show us a bit of the workings of his own mind. His empathetic perspective toward the Egyptians concerning Cambyses lack of consideration concerning the Egyptian culture and their religion. And his incredibly wise and non-partisan perspective toward all men. He understood that we all believe our cultures and customs to be the best, and that because of that Cambyses would have had to have been completely out of his mind insane to make a mockery out of someone鈥檚 beliefs.
He continues,
鈥淥ne might recall, for example, an anecdote of Darius. When he was king of Persia, he summoned the Greeks who happened to be present at his court, and asked them what they would take to eat the dead bodies of their fathers. They replied that they would not do it for any money in the world. Later, in the presence of the Greeks, and through an interpreter, so that they could understand what was said, he asked some Indians of the tribe called Callatiae, who do in fact eat their parents' dead bodies, what they would take to burn them. They uttered a cry of horror and forbade him to mention such a dreadful thing. One can see by this what custom can do.鈥�
Custom, tradition, and culture help formulate our perspective, for each one of us. Herodotus realized this, and hoped to teach others this valuable lesson. To lock ourselves into black and white thinking where we leave no room for caution and grace when dealing with fellow human beings is foolish and ignorant.
And I think I will end this review with what is another beautiful case in the latter part of the histories where Herodotus once again shows us a bit more of the workings of his mind. It is In Part 7 if I鈥檓 not mistaken when Xerxes is up on a hill looking down over the Hellespont and his vast armies, Herodotus writes of Xerxes weeping, when asked why he is crying Xerxes responds,
鈥淭here came upon me, a sudden pity when I thought of the shortness of man鈥檚 life, and considered that of all of this host, so numerous as it is, not one will be alive when a hundred years has gone by.鈥�
And Herodotus through this passage writes into Xerxes with these words a tragic Greek perspective, exemplifying an empathetic view of the great Persian that brought about the destruction of Greece, and showed him to be a man of wisdom who like Herodotus understood from the contemplation of time and history, something that King David of Israel, and The preacher of Ecclesiastes, Homer, Sophocles, etc, all contemplated as well, which is the great futility of human endeavors when viewed through long scope of History.
I for one am glad that Herodotus wrote this book, and started this wonderful western tradition of research and enquiry concerning past events, and I hope that just as it effected Herodotus鈥� worldview and perspective to be more open-minded and humble toward his fellow man, the study of history would likewise do the same for all of us who enjoy to peer back into the annals of the past. May we defy the age that we live in, and step out of the increasingly polarized dialogue of modern politics to contemplate the immense complexity of the age we live in, may we be graceful to people who think differently than ourselves, and may we be humbled to think about all of the ways in which our existence is fleeting and our human endeavors are futile.
"Oh, thank God it鈥檚 Friday, this week has been pure hell!"
to which I would respond,
"be glad it鈥檚 not the week that the Persians came to your city like they did to Barce, whose men ended up impaled on poles around the city walls, then whose wives' breasts were cut off and pinned on the wall next to them. That sounds a little bit more hell-like to me. I mean, it鈥檚 all about perspective, right guys!?"
Or when the people in my life complained about how bad the world is today, I would shell out gruesome tales from Herodotus to remind them just how good it actually is for us in terms of pain and suffering. I found this whole sharing-of-Herodotus thing to be quite cathartic. Maybe, I should take up writing inspirational, encouraging, and consoling hallmark cards utilizing gruesome tales from ancient history. Not an entirely bad idea, I don't think. Sharing some of these stories is a wonderful way of dropping a bomb on political discourse between the right and the left too! The left complaining about oppression, justice, and inequality, brought on by the right And the right complaining about the impending doom of the apocalypse brought on by the left. It is very easy through many of these tales to bring a better perspective to both of these extreme views. But, my dad ended up asking me a question that I think is important to address, something that we should all contemplate, he was understandably annoyed I think, by the fact that I had talked about nothing else but Herodotus for several weeks, and asked, 鈥淲hy should I care about this Herodotus guy at all. Who cares?鈥�
So, as fascinating to me personally as all of these enquiries of Herodotus are, and as consoling as they are to me personally, my dad鈥檚 comment put the brakes on my excitement and got me thinking. Well, what exactly is the point to all of this? And Why should I care? All of this history is kind of pointless unless we鈥檙e able to utilize this information in some way.
So, why read Herodotus?
Or, why study history at all?
I鈥檓 gonna offer up what I think are three important reasons. That are helpful to all of mankind.
1. History teaches us to think critically
2. History helps us understand the present
3. History teaches us to be humble
History provides us with the tools to think critically, as students of history we evaluate evidence rationally and with an open-mind, letting the evidence guide us. It is obvious in the world that we live in today with constant misinformation and the seemingly ever expansive lack of critical thinking abilities employed in modern discourse that our society would largely benefit from the use of the critical thinking skills that are required of us as students of history.
History provides us with the tools to better understand the present, and through the critical analysis of past events history helps us to better maneuver future dilemmas. The famous aphorism 鈥渢hose who don鈥檛 learn from history are doomed to repeat it鈥� rings true in that as the Preacher of Ecclesiastes says, 鈥淭here is nothing new under the sun鈥� Humanity is sinful and broken and falls into the same old traps over and over again in new ways. History helps us to identify these patterns.
Lastly, and most importantly History teaches us to be humble. We all have the tendency to believe that we are the most important beings in the universe, that there is no time before or after our own existence that is as important as today. Especially within our consumerist, psychological, identity-based, self-focused society where we are always looking inside ourselves and zooming in on our time and what is happening immediately around us. We see the world and the events happening around us as the most important, but if we zoom out from our small existence and our small place in time, Like the psalmist was humbled when contemplating the vastness of the night sky, in Psalm 8, wondering who man is that God is mindful of him, we too will begin to be humbled when looking into the vastness of History as we contemplate the reality of our small existence in comparison to the deep space of time that expands out from the present to both past and future. As GK Chesterton said in his book, Orthodoxy: 鈥淚f a man would make his world large, he must be always making himself small.鈥� And the study of history does exactly that.
These first principles of history are found in abundance in Herodotus.
Herodotus (unlike most people of his time and of ours for that matter) does not see the world in terms of black and white. Bad and Good. He does not see Greece as the only ones in the universe that matter. He is aware from the research he has done, and through his contemplation of history and culture that mankind is immensely complex. That each person brings with them a different perspective and worldview seeped through with hundreds or thousands of years of cultural infusion.
He is constantly moving about from tangent to tangent due to the fact that he cannot help himself from being drawn in by these people, and places, with all of their differing customs and traditions, and in his exploration of these things, he leaves for us a sort of guide on how to navigate a complex world of differing worldviews. Something that has never been as relevant to mankind in the way that it is today. Especially in a place like the United States of America were walking down a random street in L.A. or New York, would easily provide a cultural sensory-overload as you take in differing food smells, languages, appearances of different people and imagine their accompanying worldviews. How are we to make sense of anything in a world like this?
I watched a great interview with Tom Holland whose translation of The Histories was published in 2013. He brought to my attention the exemplary tale of Cambyses who was Cyrus鈥檚 elder son. He takes over after Cyrus鈥� death and immediately takes on the Egyptians. He struts into Egypt following his victory over them in battle, and some of the Egyptians were worshiping a calf who they believed to be the God Apis. Cambyses is angered with the Egyptians for celebrating this calf believing that he should have received the same type of celebration. Herodotus then goes on to give us more examples of this Cambyses guy making a fool of himself. That he violated graves in Memphis, mocked the Egyptian Hephaestus in his temple and burned the Cabiri at their shrine. Making it obvious that Cambyses was a bit of a petulant tyrant.
Herodotus writes,
鈥淸3.38] In view of all this, I have no doubt that Cambyses was completely out of his mind; it is the only possible explanation of his assault upon, and mockery of, everything which ancient law and custom have made sacred in Egypt.鈥�
鈥淚f anyone, no matter who, were given the opportunity of choosing from amongst all the nations in the world the set of beliefs which he thought best, he would inevitably - after careful considerations of their relative merits - choose that of his own country. Everyone without exception believes his own native customs, and the religion he was brought up in, to be the best; and that being so, it is unlikely that anyone but a madman would mock at such things. There is abundant evidence that this is the universal feeling about the ancient customs of one's country.鈥�
What Herodotus does here through this amazing story is to show us a bit of the workings of his own mind. His empathetic perspective toward the Egyptians concerning Cambyses lack of consideration concerning the Egyptian culture and their religion. And his incredibly wise and non-partisan perspective toward all men. He understood that we all believe our cultures and customs to be the best, and that because of that Cambyses would have had to have been completely out of his mind insane to make a mockery out of someone鈥檚 beliefs.
He continues,
鈥淥ne might recall, for example, an anecdote of Darius. When he was king of Persia, he summoned the Greeks who happened to be present at his court, and asked them what they would take to eat the dead bodies of their fathers. They replied that they would not do it for any money in the world. Later, in the presence of the Greeks, and through an interpreter, so that they could understand what was said, he asked some Indians of the tribe called Callatiae, who do in fact eat their parents' dead bodies, what they would take to burn them. They uttered a cry of horror and forbade him to mention such a dreadful thing. One can see by this what custom can do.鈥�
Custom, tradition, and culture help formulate our perspective, for each one of us. Herodotus realized this, and hoped to teach others this valuable lesson. To lock ourselves into black and white thinking where we leave no room for caution and grace when dealing with fellow human beings is foolish and ignorant.
And I think I will end this review with what is another beautiful case in the latter part of the histories where Herodotus once again shows us a bit more of the workings of his mind. It is In Part 7 if I鈥檓 not mistaken when Xerxes is up on a hill looking down over the Hellespont and his vast armies, Herodotus writes of Xerxes weeping, when asked why he is crying Xerxes responds,
鈥淭here came upon me, a sudden pity when I thought of the shortness of man鈥檚 life, and considered that of all of this host, so numerous as it is, not one will be alive when a hundred years has gone by.鈥�
And Herodotus through this passage writes into Xerxes with these words a tragic Greek perspective, exemplifying an empathetic view of the great Persian that brought about the destruction of Greece, and showed him to be a man of wisdom who like Herodotus understood from the contemplation of time and history, something that King David of Israel, and The preacher of Ecclesiastes, Homer, Sophocles, etc, all contemplated as well, which is the great futility of human endeavors when viewed through long scope of History.
I for one am glad that Herodotus wrote this book, and started this wonderful western tradition of research and enquiry concerning past events, and I hope that just as it effected Herodotus鈥� worldview and perspective to be more open-minded and humble toward his fellow man, the study of history would likewise do the same for all of us who enjoy to peer back into the annals of the past. May we defy the age that we live in, and step out of the increasingly polarized dialogue of modern politics to contemplate the immense complexity of the age we live in, may we be graceful to people who think differently than ourselves, and may we be humbled to think about all of the ways in which our existence is fleeting and our human endeavors are futile.
April 28, 2020
Accordingly the Psylli took counsel among themselves, and by common consent made war upon the southwind---so at least the Libyans say, I do but repeat their words---they went forth and reached the desert; but there the south-wind rose and buried them under heaps of sand: whereupon, the Psylli being destroyed, their lands passed to the Nasamonians.
I read most of this edition (as opposed to the Landmark) picking up donated food for our residential component. It is a strange time. Therefore, it was perhaps appropriate that I sat in the back of van engrossed in this tome. Vacant streets signifying something amiss. My only contact on many of these sojourns was the sudden appearance of masked figures bringing out cases of produce and other foodstuffs. I believe my foundations for approaching this were typical: largely The English Patient and Persian Fire: Tom Holland's book on Thermopylae. Coincidentally, I became aware that Holland himself had translated the Histories and I admit I find that prospect intriguing.
Despite the attempts at objectivity, it is the personalities which I find fascinating: Xerxes and Leonidas are voices for the ages, however apocryphal.
I read most of this edition (as opposed to the Landmark) picking up donated food for our residential component. It is a strange time. Therefore, it was perhaps appropriate that I sat in the back of van engrossed in this tome. Vacant streets signifying something amiss. My only contact on many of these sojourns was the sudden appearance of masked figures bringing out cases of produce and other foodstuffs. I believe my foundations for approaching this were typical: largely The English Patient and Persian Fire: Tom Holland's book on Thermopylae. Coincidentally, I became aware that Holland himself had translated the Histories and I admit I find that prospect intriguing.
Despite the attempts at objectivity, it is the personalities which I find fascinating: Xerxes and Leonidas are voices for the ages, however apocryphal.
March 19, 2018
What I read: Histories by Herodotus
What I expected: Thucydides + Persians
What I got: Mountable battle dolphins
The complete discography of Kid Rock
Eyewitness testimony that Ethiopians produce pitch black semen (no homo)
"Our flying snakes will block out the sun!"
On all levels except physical I am a Mede *Whips the sea*
"Herodotus can I borrow 100,000 Persians?" "1,000,000 Persians? What do you need 5,000,000 Persians for?"
The Virgin Greek pederasty, the Chad Persian piss fetish
What I expected: Thucydides + Persians
What I got: Mountable battle dolphins
The complete discography of Kid Rock
Eyewitness testimony that Ethiopians produce pitch black semen (no homo)
"Our flying snakes will block out the sun!"
On all levels except physical I am a Mede *Whips the sea*
"Herodotus can I borrow 100,000 Persians?" "1,000,000 Persians? What do you need 5,000,000 Persians for?"
The Virgin Greek pederasty, the Chad Persian piss fetish
July 3, 2016
丿賵爻鬲丕賳賽 诏乇丕賳賯丿乇貙 亘丕 丌賳讴賴 夭賳丿賴 蹖丕丿 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 丕蹖賳 賲賵乇禺 賳丕賲蹖貙 丿乇 亘乇禺蹖 丕夭 丕禺亘丕乇蹖 讴賴 丕乇丕卅賴 賳賲賵丿賴貙 丿乇 賲賵乇丿 丕蹖乇丕賳 禺氐賲丕賳賴 亘乇禺賵乇丿 讴乇丿賴 賵 丿乇 噩丕賴丕蹖蹖 賳蹖夭 賳賵卮鬲賴 賴丕蹖卮 亘爻蹖丕乇 亘丕 賵丕賯毓蹖鬲 賮丕氐賱賴 丿丕乇丿貙 丕賲賾丕 丿乇 賴乇 丨丕賱 賲蹖鬲賵丕賳 诏賮鬲 讴賴 蹖讴蹖 丕夭 讴鬲亘賽 鬲丕乇蹖禺蹖 賲乇噩毓 賲蹖亘丕卮丿 讴賴 亘乇禺蹖 丕夭 丕禺亘丕乇 賵 乇賵蹖丿丕丿賴丕蹖蹖 讴賴 賳賵卮鬲賴貙 鬲賳賴丕 丿乇 賴賲蹖賳 讴鬲丕亘 蹖丕賮鬲 賲蹖卮賵丿... 丕蹖賳 賲賵乇禺 賳丕賲蹖 夭丨賲丕鬲 亘爻蹖丕乇 夭蹖丕丿蹖 亘乇丕蹖 亘乇 噩丕蹖 賲丕賳丿賳 鬲丕乇蹖禺 亘乇丕蹖 丕賳爻丕賳賴丕蹖 丕賲乇賵夭蹖 讴卮蹖丿賴 丕爻鬲 賵 賲卮讴賱 賮賯胤 賵 賮賯胤 賴賲丕賳 鬲丨乇蹖賮 賴丕蹖蹖 丕爻鬲 讴賴 亘毓囟丕賸 亘賴 丿賱蹖賱 丿卮賲賳蹖 丿蹖乇蹖锟斤拷賴 亘丕 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖丕賳貙 賵丕乇丿 丕禺亘丕乇卮 讴乇丿賴 丕爻鬲... 丕賱亘鬲賴 丕禺亘丕乇蹖 乇丕 讴賴 鬲丨乇蹖賮 卮丿賴 丕爻鬲 乇丕 丕诏乇 亘乇 鬲丕乇蹖禺 丕蹖乇丕賳 鬲爻賱胤 丿丕卮鬲賴 亘丕卮蹖丿貙 亘賴 禺賵亘蹖 賲鬲賵噩賴 賲蹖卮賵蹖丿.. 亘賴 诏賵賳賴 丕蹖 讴賴 丿乇 賴乇讴噩丕 讴賴 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖丕賳 蹖丕 賮賱丕賳 倬丕丿卮丕賴 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖 乇丕 讴賵趩讴 丕賳诏丕卮鬲賴貙 亘丿丕賳蹖丿 讴賴 讴蹖賳賴 賵 亘丿丕賳丿蹖卮蹖 丕夭 爻賵蹖 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄貙 丿乇 倬卮鬲賽 丌賳 乇賵蹖丿丕丿 賵 禺亘乇貙 賳賴賮鬲賴 丕爻鬲
丿乇讴賱貙 亘賴 毓賳賵丕賳 賲讴賲賱 賲蹖鬲賵丕賳丿 讴鬲丕亘 賲賳丕爻亘蹖 噩賴鬲 賮賴賲 鬲丕乇蹖禺 爻乇夭賲蹖賳賲丕賳 賵 賴賲趩賳蹖賳 鬲丕乇蹖禺 蹖賵賳丕賳蹖丕賳 賵 乇賵賲蹖丕賳 亘丕卮丿
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丿乇 亘賳丿 141 丕夭 鬲丕乇蹖禺 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 丕禺亘丕乇蹖 丕夭 芦讴賵乇賵卮 亘夭乇诏禄 賳賵卮鬲賴 卮丿賴 讴賴 亘丿賵賳 鬲乇丿蹖丿 丕夭 禺賵丕賳丿賳 丌賳 賱匕鬲 賲蹖亘乇蹖丿 賵 亘賴 卮毓賵乇 賵 禺乇丿 賳蹖丕讴丕賳賲丕賳 丕賮鬲禺丕乇 賲蹖讴賳蹖丿
丿乇 亘賳丿 141 賳賵卮鬲賴: 蹖賵賳丕賳蹖丕賳賽 丕蹖賳 爻乇夭賲蹖賳 (賲賳馗賵乇 丌爻蹖丕蹖 氐睾蹖乇 亘賵丿賴 丕爻鬲) 讴賴 賲睾賱賵亘賽 芦讴賵乇賵卮禄 卮丿賴 亘賵丿賳丿貙 爻賮蹖乇蹖 賳夭丿 丕賵 賮乇爻鬲丕丿賳丿 賵 鬲賯丕囟丕 讴乇丿賳丿 讴賴 亘丕 丌賳賴丕 亘賴 賴賲丕賳 賳丨賵 乇賮鬲丕乇 讴賳丿 讴賴 亘丕 倬丕丿卮丕賴 賲睾賱賵亘賽 賱蹖丿蹖賴 (讴乇夭賵爻) 乇賮鬲丕乇 讴乇丿賴 亘賵丿. 蹖毓賳蹖 丿乇 丕賲賵乇 丿丕禺賱蹖 丌賳賴丕 丿禺丕賱鬲 賳讴賳丿 賵 賴賲丕賳 丕賲鬲蹖丕夭賴丕 乇丕 亘乇丕蹖卮丕賳 亘卮賳丕爻丿. 芦讴賵乇賵卮禄 噩賵丕亘 賲爻鬲賯蹖賲蹖 亘賴 丌賳賴丕 賳丿丕丿貙 賵賱蹖 丕蹖賳 賲孬丕賱 乇丕 亘乇丕蹖卮丕賳 丌賵乇丿: 賳蹖 夭賳蹖 亘賴 讴賳丕乇 丿乇蹖丕 乇賮鬲 賵 丿蹖丿 賲丕賴蹖 賴丕蹖賽 禺賵卮乇賳诏 丿乇 丌亘 卮賳丕 賲蹖讴賳賳丿. 倬蹖卮 禺賵丿 诏賮鬲: 丕诏乇 賳蹖 亘夭賳賲 蹖賯蹖賳丕賸 丕蹖賳賴丕 亘賴 禺卮讴蹖 禺賵丕賴賳丿 丌賲丿. 賵賱蹖 趩賳丿丕賳 讴賴 賳蹖 夭丿貙 丕孬乇蹖 丕夭 賲丕賴蹖賴丕 賳蹖丕賮鬲... 倬爻 鬲賵乇蹖 亘乇丿丕卮鬲 賵 亘賴 丿乇蹖丕 丕賮讴賳丿 賵 毓丿賴 丕蹖 丕夭 賲丕賴蹖賴丕 丿乇 丌賳 丕賮鬲丕丿賳丿... 賵賯鬲蹖讴賴 賲丕賴蹖賴丕 丿乇 鬲賵乇 賲蹖噩爻鬲賳丿 賵 賲蹖 丕賮鬲丕丿賳丿貙 賳蹖 夭賳 诏賮鬲: 丨丕賱丕 亘蹖賴賵丿賴 賲蹖 乇賯氐蹖丿貙 賲蹖亘丕蹖爻鬲 丌賳賵賯鬲 讴賴 賳蹖 賲蹖夭丿賲 賲蹖乇賯氐蹖丿蹖丿.(乇賯氐蹖丿賴 亘丕卮蹖丿)...倬丕蹖丕賳
蹖丕丿 芦讴賵乇賵卮禄貙 丌賳 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖 亘夭乇诏 賵 禺乇丿賲賳丿貙 鬲丕 賴賲蹖卮賴 夭賳丿賴 賵 倬丕蹖賳丿賴 亘丕丿
芦倬蹖乇賵夭 亘丕卮蹖丿 賵 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖禄
丿乇讴賱貙 亘賴 毓賳賵丕賳 賲讴賲賱 賲蹖鬲賵丕賳丿 讴鬲丕亘 賲賳丕爻亘蹖 噩賴鬲 賮賴賲 鬲丕乇蹖禺 爻乇夭賲蹖賳賲丕賳 賵 賴賲趩賳蹖賳 鬲丕乇蹖禺 蹖賵賳丕賳蹖丕賳 賵 乇賵賲蹖丕賳 亘丕卮丿
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丿乇 亘賳丿 141 丕夭 鬲丕乇蹖禺 芦賴乇賵丿賵鬲禄 丕禺亘丕乇蹖 丕夭 芦讴賵乇賵卮 亘夭乇诏禄 賳賵卮鬲賴 卮丿賴 讴賴 亘丿賵賳 鬲乇丿蹖丿 丕夭 禺賵丕賳丿賳 丌賳 賱匕鬲 賲蹖亘乇蹖丿 賵 亘賴 卮毓賵乇 賵 禺乇丿 賳蹖丕讴丕賳賲丕賳 丕賮鬲禺丕乇 賲蹖讴賳蹖丿
丿乇 亘賳丿 141 賳賵卮鬲賴: 蹖賵賳丕賳蹖丕賳賽 丕蹖賳 爻乇夭賲蹖賳 (賲賳馗賵乇 丌爻蹖丕蹖 氐睾蹖乇 亘賵丿賴 丕爻鬲) 讴賴 賲睾賱賵亘賽 芦讴賵乇賵卮禄 卮丿賴 亘賵丿賳丿貙 爻賮蹖乇蹖 賳夭丿 丕賵 賮乇爻鬲丕丿賳丿 賵 鬲賯丕囟丕 讴乇丿賳丿 讴賴 亘丕 丌賳賴丕 亘賴 賴賲丕賳 賳丨賵 乇賮鬲丕乇 讴賳丿 讴賴 亘丕 倬丕丿卮丕賴 賲睾賱賵亘賽 賱蹖丿蹖賴 (讴乇夭賵爻) 乇賮鬲丕乇 讴乇丿賴 亘賵丿. 蹖毓賳蹖 丿乇 丕賲賵乇 丿丕禺賱蹖 丌賳賴丕 丿禺丕賱鬲 賳讴賳丿 賵 賴賲丕賳 丕賲鬲蹖丕夭賴丕 乇丕 亘乇丕蹖卮丕賳 亘卮賳丕爻丿. 芦讴賵乇賵卮禄 噩賵丕亘 賲爻鬲賯蹖賲蹖 亘賴 丌賳賴丕 賳丿丕丿貙 賵賱蹖 丕蹖賳 賲孬丕賱 乇丕 亘乇丕蹖卮丕賳 丌賵乇丿: 賳蹖 夭賳蹖 亘賴 讴賳丕乇 丿乇蹖丕 乇賮鬲 賵 丿蹖丿 賲丕賴蹖 賴丕蹖賽 禺賵卮乇賳诏 丿乇 丌亘 卮賳丕 賲蹖讴賳賳丿. 倬蹖卮 禺賵丿 诏賮鬲: 丕诏乇 賳蹖 亘夭賳賲 蹖賯蹖賳丕賸 丕蹖賳賴丕 亘賴 禺卮讴蹖 禺賵丕賴賳丿 丌賲丿. 賵賱蹖 趩賳丿丕賳 讴賴 賳蹖 夭丿貙 丕孬乇蹖 丕夭 賲丕賴蹖賴丕 賳蹖丕賮鬲... 倬爻 鬲賵乇蹖 亘乇丿丕卮鬲 賵 亘賴 丿乇蹖丕 丕賮讴賳丿 賵 毓丿賴 丕蹖 丕夭 賲丕賴蹖賴丕 丿乇 丌賳 丕賮鬲丕丿賳丿... 賵賯鬲蹖讴賴 賲丕賴蹖賴丕 丿乇 鬲賵乇 賲蹖噩爻鬲賳丿 賵 賲蹖 丕賮鬲丕丿賳丿貙 賳蹖 夭賳 诏賮鬲: 丨丕賱丕 亘蹖賴賵丿賴 賲蹖 乇賯氐蹖丿貙 賲蹖亘丕蹖爻鬲 丌賳賵賯鬲 讴賴 賳蹖 賲蹖夭丿賲 賲蹖乇賯氐蹖丿蹖丿.(乇賯氐蹖丿賴 亘丕卮蹖丿)...倬丕蹖丕賳
蹖丕丿 芦讴賵乇賵卮禄貙 丌賳 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖 亘夭乇诏 賵 禺乇丿賲賳丿貙 鬲丕 賴賲蹖卮賴 夭賳丿賴 賵 倬丕蹖賳丿賴 亘丕丿
芦倬蹖乇賵夭 亘丕卮蹖丿 賵 丕蹖乇丕賳蹖禄
September 27, 2019
One of the surprising things about this book is that, despite its antiquity, the author鈥檚 personality comes through. Of course I鈥檓 hearing his voice through translation, but I couldn鈥檛 help but imagine that I was on the listening end of an extended conversation with the book鈥檚 narrator who had traveled widely, met many people, and read much. The book鈥檚 narrative sounds almost conversational with numerous digressions and detours that indicate extensive knowledge of the background of the characters and incidents being described. I almost feel like I鈥檝e met the author who lived nearly 2.5 thousand years ago.
This book is generally recognized as the founding work of history in Wester literature. Published around , the year the author died, it recounts the traditions, politics, geography, and wars of that era. The actual writing of the work had probably stretched over a number of prior years. The work is divided into nine books beginning with founding myths and Trojan War and proceeding through Greek history until the .
It鈥檚 interesting to note that the second Persian invasion occurred approximately fifty-five years prior to the publishing of this account. Those intervening years were the zenith of the golden years of Ancient Greece during which Athens dominated over the other Greek city states. However, the beginning rebellions of what later became known as the Peloponnesian War (431 BC 鈥� 404 BC) were underway.
LINK to my review of History of the Peloponnesian War, by Thucydides.
LINK to my review of Herodotus: The Father of History, by Elizabeth Vandiver (24 lectures)
Postscript added Sept 24, 2019:
One story told by Herodotus I found of particular interest鈥攈e reported being told of a Phoenician ship that circumnavigated around Africa (a.k.a. Libya in Herodotus鈥� era). This would have occurred about 2,000 years prior to . I was amazed to learn this, but Herodotus referenced the incident only as a reason for concluding that Africa was a smaller continent than Europe. Herodotus said the Phoenicians reported that the sun passed to the north of the ship while they were in the southern part of Africa鈥擧erodotus believed this to be impossible. Ironically, Herodotus referenced the report of a northern sun as a reason for doubting to whole story, whereas today we recognize it as a reason to conclude that the reported circumnavigation to be credible.
This book is generally recognized as the founding work of history in Wester literature. Published around , the year the author died, it recounts the traditions, politics, geography, and wars of that era. The actual writing of the work had probably stretched over a number of prior years. The work is divided into nine books beginning with founding myths and Trojan War and proceeding through Greek history until the .
It鈥檚 interesting to note that the second Persian invasion occurred approximately fifty-five years prior to the publishing of this account. Those intervening years were the zenith of the golden years of Ancient Greece during which Athens dominated over the other Greek city states. However, the beginning rebellions of what later became known as the Peloponnesian War (431 BC 鈥� 404 BC) were underway.
LINK to my review of History of the Peloponnesian War, by Thucydides.
LINK to my review of Herodotus: The Father of History, by Elizabeth Vandiver (24 lectures)
Postscript added Sept 24, 2019:
One story told by Herodotus I found of particular interest鈥攈e reported being told of a Phoenician ship that circumnavigated around Africa (a.k.a. Libya in Herodotus鈥� era). This would have occurred about 2,000 years prior to . I was amazed to learn this, but Herodotus referenced the incident only as a reason for concluding that Africa was a smaller continent than Europe. Herodotus said the Phoenicians reported that the sun passed to the north of the ship while they were in the southern part of Africa鈥擧erodotus believed this to be impossible. Ironically, Herodotus referenced the report of a northern sun as a reason for doubting to whole story, whereas today we recognize it as a reason to conclude that the reported circumnavigation to be credible.
April 28, 2017
Years ago, I was on jury duty in LA. This was back when jury duty largely consisted of waiting around in a large room each day for a week. I brought along a copy of The Histories (the Rawlinson translation published by Everyman's Library) and found myself engrossed by all the stories, tall tales, gossip, rumors, etc. It's a wonderful panoply that's on offer here! Sure, Herodotus was criticized by many for not writing "facts," but the power of stories is far greater, and he knew it.
May 19, 2019
Unreal book, at the intersection of Greek, Lydian, Persian and Egyptian history, and at the intersection of history and legend. Full of fascinating anecdotes and surmises, signs and wonders.
August 3, 2016
賱賲 鬲賰賳 鬲賱賰 賮賰乇鬲賷 毓賳 (鬲丕乇賷禺 賴賷乇賵丿賵鬲) 賯亘賱 賯乇丕亍鬲賷 賱賴 貙 賰賳鬲 兀胤賳賴 兀賰孬乇 毓賱賲賷丞 賲賳 匕丕賰 賱賰孬乇丞 賲丕鬲賲 丕賱廿爻鬲卮賴丕丿 亘賴 賵 丕賱乇噩賵毓 廿賱賷賴 兀賰丕丿賷賲賷丕
***
丨賰丕賷丕鬲 賱胤賷賮丞 賵 賲卮賵賯丞 毓賱賶 兀賷 丨丕賱 :) 貙 賵 賲賳 兀賰孬乇 丨賰丕賷丕鬲賴 丕賱鬲賷 賱賮鬲鬲 賳丕馗乇賷 丨賰丕賷丞 賯賲亘賷夭 賲毓 賲賱賰 廿孬賷賵亘賷丕 ...貙 賵
(丕賱兀賲丕夭賵賳賷丕鬲)
賰賳賲賵匕噩 賲賳 丕賱賳賲丕匕噩 丕賱兀賳孬賵賷丞 丕賱賮乇賷丿丞 賮賷 丕賱鬲丕乇賷禺 丕賱賯丿賷賲
***
丨賰丕賷丕鬲 賱胤賷賮丞 賵 賲卮賵賯丞 毓賱賶 兀賷 丨丕賱 :) 貙 賵 賲賳 兀賰孬乇 丨賰丕賷丕鬲賴 丕賱鬲賷 賱賮鬲鬲 賳丕馗乇賷 丨賰丕賷丞 賯賲亘賷夭 賲毓 賲賱賰 廿孬賷賵亘賷丕 ...貙 賵
(丕賱兀賲丕夭賵賳賷丕鬲)
賰賳賲賵匕噩 賲賳 丕賱賳賲丕匕噩 丕賱兀賳孬賵賷丞 丕賱賮乇賷丿丞 賮賷 丕賱鬲丕乇賷禺 丕賱賯丿賷賲
February 18, 2021
Herodot - turista i istori膷ar? Nije ba拧 pravedno predstaviti ga u ovakvom redosledu, ali da je putovao, putovao je... Zami拧ljam te avanture pe拧ice, na konjima, zapregama, brodovima鈥� Koliko vremena da se stigne na sva ta mesta, a bilo je i opasno. Egip膰ani nisu ni 啪eleli da putuju velikim plavim morem, dr啪ali su se Nila, a ni Grci se nisu odu拧evljavali kad se udalje od obala. Herodot ne samo da je proputovao Gr膷ku, posetio Skitiju, ve膰 je dospeo do Persije, proveo par meseci u Egiptu, stigao i do ju啪nih egipatskih oblasti, dana拧njeg Sudana.
Ovog fascinantnog Grka, ro膽enog 484 p.n.e. u dana拧njem Bodrumu, Ciceron je nazvao Otac istorije, a Plutarh Otac la啪i. Tek ovo je nepravedno - njegova zadu啪bina u obliku Istorije je kolosalna. Koliko je Herodot danas citiran, mo啪e da zna膷i da bi bez njega gomila istorijskih 膷injenica bila izgubljena. O Skitima skoro da i nema drugih zapisa, 膷itava istorija jednog vremena ne bi postojala. Da je neki Herodot posetio stare Slovene...
Neki njegovi zapisi jesu u najmanju ruku nesigurni, ali ja imam pomalo romanti膷arski (naivan?) pogled na to. Sigurno nije namerno prenosio neistine, ve膰 je skupljao informacije i preneo dalje. Ponekad su pri膷e pojednostavljene, umesto istorijskih dokumenata dobijamo seriju anekdota, ali ovo jeste sjajan pogled na gr膷ku istoriju, mentalitet tog (i drugih) naroda. A opisom obi膷aja dobijamo ne samo po膷etak istorije, ve膰 i po膷etak etnografije.
A kad sam ve膰 kod te reke anekdota, ona zna膷i i da se ovo 膷ita kao literatura. Nema suvoparnog prenosa 膷injenica, ovo su pri膷e koje te zovu da im se vrati拧. Te拧ko se zaboravlja pri膷a o odrastanju persijskog vladara Kira Velikog ili o tome kako je Kserks kaznio lokalnog vladara koji je molio da mu ne odvede svih pet sinova u rat (presekao ih na pola i proterao celu persijsku armiju putem izme膽u njih).
Istorija je podeljena u devet knjiga koje simpati膷no nose imena devet muza, a po膷inju pri膷om o kralju Krasu iz kraljevstva Lidija, kao po膷etku evropsko-azijskog konflikta, a Kras se kasnije neo膷ekivano pojavljuje na nekoliko mesta. Grci protiv Varvara (鈥渂arbari鈥� su tako nazvani po拧to su Grci njihov govor razumeli samo kao 鈥渂ar bar bar鈥�, a tako su nazivali sve ne-Helene). Nastavlja usponom Persijskog carstva pa duga膷kim putovanjem u Egipat.
Ima iz tog dela o Egiptu interesantna pri膷ica koja govori o Herodotovoj odu拧evljenosti detaljima, ali i o njegovoj naivnosti. Obilazi tako sa svojim vodi膷ima groblje i nailazi na razbacane kosti i lobanje. Ovo se de拧ava pedesetak godina nakon velike bitke na tom mestu, a kad upita svoje vodi膷e kakve su to kosti, odgovaraju mu da su ostale tu nakon bitke. Pedeset godina kasnije? Ve膰 i ovo navodi na sumnju, ali sledi jo拧 nerazumnije obja拧njenje - pogledajte kako Egip膰ani imaju deblje lobanje, po拧to su navikli da nose 拧lemove i kape, dok Persijanci imaju tanke lobanje zato 拧to hodaju gologlavi, pa im sun膷evi zraci tanje kosti.
U Egiptu se bavi i pogre拧nim prevodom hijeroglifa na piramidama, pa tako ti znakovi navodno govore o tome 拧ta su radnici jeli i pili za vreme gradnje istih, 拧to nema nikakve veze sa stvarnim prevodom. Mogu膰e da je vodi膷 bio nepismen, nije hteo to da prizna, pa je izmi拧ljao dok su i拧li? Ipak, proces mumificiranja je opisan dosta verno i po拧to egipatski mumifikatori nisu ostavljali nikakve zapise o tom procesu (valjda su ljubomorno 膷uvali znanje u okviru bran拧e), ispada da je Herodotovo upustvo za mumifikaciju najbolje koje imamo.
U poslednjoj tre膰ini Istorije, Herodot se vra膰a u Gr膷ku i tu sledi klimaks - gr膷ko-persijski ratovi. Ovo je zapis o tada skorijoj istoriji, o doga膽ajima od pre par decenija, kao kad bismo danas pisali o o ratu u Vijetnamu. Imao je mnogo izvora, pre啪ivelih svedoka, sigurno i zapisa iz tog doba. Prvi put imamo delo koje se bavi skora拧njim doga膽ajima umesto o legendama. Jonska pobuna protiv Persijanaca, pa manje bitke koje slede i prvi vrhunac sa atinskom pobedom kod Maratona (490 p.n.e.). Nakon Darijeve smrti, detaljna pri膷a o velikom Kserksovom pohodu u kom 啪eli da kazni Atinjane za nesre膰u svog oca. Nakon juna膷kog poraza Spartanaca kod Termopila, Atinjani nekim 膷udom (mo啪e se re膰i ni sami ne znaju kako) uspevaju da poraze persijsku flotu u pomorskoj bitci kod Salamine 480 p.n.e. Ako je anti膷ka gr膷ka civilizacija temelj evropske i generalno zapadne civilizacije, koliko bi samo evropska istorija bila druga膷ija da nisu?
Ima i ovde stvari kojima na prvi pogled nije mesto u istorijskom delu. Uticaj bogova, na primer. Na trenutke je kao da 膷ita拧 Ilijadu, pa su ljudi u glavnim ulogama, ali bogovi redovno interveni拧u i povla膷e niti. 膶ak i kad ne tvrdi da je neki doga膽aj posledica odluke bo啪anstva, ne postoji velika odluke koja nije done拧ena na osnovu 啪rtve bogovima i toga 鈥渄a li je 啪rtva bila ugodna鈥�. Uzme拧 kozu ili bika, zavisno koliko je veliko pitnaje, 啪rtvuje拧 ga, onda je secira拧 i na osnovu toga kako izgledaju jetra ili srce, proceni拧 da li treba da primi拧 bitku ili da se povu膷e拧.
Ali 膷ak i ti religiozni izve拧taji diraju u srce. Detaljan opis dana koji prethode bitci kod Salamine govori kako Atinjani 拧alju ambasadore u proro膷i拧te u Delfima kako bi proverili 拧ta da rade povodom nadolaze膰e persijske invazije. Dobijaju odgovor 鈥淏ednici, a 拧to sedite? Be啪ite na kraj sveta! Ostav鈥檛e domove va拧e i bre啪uljke okruglog grada. Jer mi ni glava 膷itava, ni telo ostati ne膰e鈥� 膶ist鈥檛e se sad iz hrama i na nevolje spremni bud鈥檛e.鈥�
Kad su ve膰 pali u o膷ajanje posle ovoga, vrate se jo拧 jednom, sa novim 啪rtvama i mole za ugodnije proro膷anstvo: 鈥淕ospode, smiluj se na ove gran膷ice s kojima smo ti do拧li i proreci nam ne拧to bolje o na拧oj otad啪bini, u protivnom slu膷aju ne膰emo oti膰i iz hrama, nego 膰emo ostati tu dok ne umremo.鈥� Sre膰om, dok sam ovo prepri膷avao 膰erki, seckao sam luk za ramstek, pa nije mogla biti sigurna zbog 膷ega tati suze o膷i.
Herodot poku拧ava da bude objektivan i ne predstavlja varvare kao proste divljake, ali ipak se radi o ratu izme膽u sila porobljavanja (Persije) i sila slobode (Atina) i njegova strast izbija sa svake strane. I ta strast se kroz ovo (ina膷e, prvo pre啪ivelo duga膷ko delo u prozi) prenosi i na 膷itaoca. Priznajem, ponekad nije lako ispratiti sve sitnice - poznavanje gr膷ke mitologije je skoro pa preduslov, a ne treba zaboraviti da je ovo istorija bez godina, pa je fino pratiti Vikipediju za dobijanje ose膰aja o vremenu - ali vredi truda. Herodot u uvodu ka啪e da je ovo delo pisao 鈥渞adi toga da se vremenom ne bi umanjio zna膷aj onoga 拧to je 膷ove膷anstvo stvorilo, te da velika i divna dela, i ona koja su stvorili Heleni, kao i ona koja su stvorili varvari, ne bi bila zaboravljena, i zato da bi objasnio za拧to je izme膽u Helena i varvara dolazilo do ratova.鈥� 膶itamo ga 2.500 godina kasnije, moglo bi se re膰i da je uspeo u tome.
P.S. Pre 膷itanja odgledao sam sjajan
.
Ovog fascinantnog Grka, ro膽enog 484 p.n.e. u dana拧njem Bodrumu, Ciceron je nazvao Otac istorije, a Plutarh Otac la啪i. Tek ovo je nepravedno - njegova zadu啪bina u obliku Istorije je kolosalna. Koliko je Herodot danas citiran, mo啪e da zna膷i da bi bez njega gomila istorijskih 膷injenica bila izgubljena. O Skitima skoro da i nema drugih zapisa, 膷itava istorija jednog vremena ne bi postojala. Da je neki Herodot posetio stare Slovene...
Neki njegovi zapisi jesu u najmanju ruku nesigurni, ali ja imam pomalo romanti膷arski (naivan?) pogled na to. Sigurno nije namerno prenosio neistine, ve膰 je skupljao informacije i preneo dalje. Ponekad su pri膷e pojednostavljene, umesto istorijskih dokumenata dobijamo seriju anekdota, ali ovo jeste sjajan pogled na gr膷ku istoriju, mentalitet tog (i drugih) naroda. A opisom obi膷aja dobijamo ne samo po膷etak istorije, ve膰 i po膷etak etnografije.
A kad sam ve膰 kod te reke anekdota, ona zna膷i i da se ovo 膷ita kao literatura. Nema suvoparnog prenosa 膷injenica, ovo su pri膷e koje te zovu da im se vrati拧. Te拧ko se zaboravlja pri膷a o odrastanju persijskog vladara Kira Velikog ili o tome kako je Kserks kaznio lokalnog vladara koji je molio da mu ne odvede svih pet sinova u rat (presekao ih na pola i proterao celu persijsku armiju putem izme膽u njih).
Istorija je podeljena u devet knjiga koje simpati膷no nose imena devet muza, a po膷inju pri膷om o kralju Krasu iz kraljevstva Lidija, kao po膷etku evropsko-azijskog konflikta, a Kras se kasnije neo膷ekivano pojavljuje na nekoliko mesta. Grci protiv Varvara (鈥渂arbari鈥� su tako nazvani po拧to su Grci njihov govor razumeli samo kao 鈥渂ar bar bar鈥�, a tako su nazivali sve ne-Helene). Nastavlja usponom Persijskog carstva pa duga膷kim putovanjem u Egipat.
Ima iz tog dela o Egiptu interesantna pri膷ica koja govori o Herodotovoj odu拧evljenosti detaljima, ali i o njegovoj naivnosti. Obilazi tako sa svojim vodi膷ima groblje i nailazi na razbacane kosti i lobanje. Ovo se de拧ava pedesetak godina nakon velike bitke na tom mestu, a kad upita svoje vodi膷e kakve su to kosti, odgovaraju mu da su ostale tu nakon bitke. Pedeset godina kasnije? Ve膰 i ovo navodi na sumnju, ali sledi jo拧 nerazumnije obja拧njenje - pogledajte kako Egip膰ani imaju deblje lobanje, po拧to su navikli da nose 拧lemove i kape, dok Persijanci imaju tanke lobanje zato 拧to hodaju gologlavi, pa im sun膷evi zraci tanje kosti.
U Egiptu se bavi i pogre拧nim prevodom hijeroglifa na piramidama, pa tako ti znakovi navodno govore o tome 拧ta su radnici jeli i pili za vreme gradnje istih, 拧to nema nikakve veze sa stvarnim prevodom. Mogu膰e da je vodi膷 bio nepismen, nije hteo to da prizna, pa je izmi拧ljao dok su i拧li? Ipak, proces mumificiranja je opisan dosta verno i po拧to egipatski mumifikatori nisu ostavljali nikakve zapise o tom procesu (valjda su ljubomorno 膷uvali znanje u okviru bran拧e), ispada da je Herodotovo upustvo za mumifikaciju najbolje koje imamo.
U poslednjoj tre膰ini Istorije, Herodot se vra膰a u Gr膷ku i tu sledi klimaks - gr膷ko-persijski ratovi. Ovo je zapis o tada skorijoj istoriji, o doga膽ajima od pre par decenija, kao kad bismo danas pisali o o ratu u Vijetnamu. Imao je mnogo izvora, pre啪ivelih svedoka, sigurno i zapisa iz tog doba. Prvi put imamo delo koje se bavi skora拧njim doga膽ajima umesto o legendama. Jonska pobuna protiv Persijanaca, pa manje bitke koje slede i prvi vrhunac sa atinskom pobedom kod Maratona (490 p.n.e.). Nakon Darijeve smrti, detaljna pri膷a o velikom Kserksovom pohodu u kom 啪eli da kazni Atinjane za nesre膰u svog oca. Nakon juna膷kog poraza Spartanaca kod Termopila, Atinjani nekim 膷udom (mo啪e se re膰i ni sami ne znaju kako) uspevaju da poraze persijsku flotu u pomorskoj bitci kod Salamine 480 p.n.e. Ako je anti膷ka gr膷ka civilizacija temelj evropske i generalno zapadne civilizacije, koliko bi samo evropska istorija bila druga膷ija da nisu?
Ima i ovde stvari kojima na prvi pogled nije mesto u istorijskom delu. Uticaj bogova, na primer. Na trenutke je kao da 膷ita拧 Ilijadu, pa su ljudi u glavnim ulogama, ali bogovi redovno interveni拧u i povla膷e niti. 膶ak i kad ne tvrdi da je neki doga膽aj posledica odluke bo啪anstva, ne postoji velika odluke koja nije done拧ena na osnovu 啪rtve bogovima i toga 鈥渄a li je 啪rtva bila ugodna鈥�. Uzme拧 kozu ili bika, zavisno koliko je veliko pitnaje, 啪rtvuje拧 ga, onda je secira拧 i na osnovu toga kako izgledaju jetra ili srce, proceni拧 da li treba da primi拧 bitku ili da se povu膷e拧.
Ali 膷ak i ti religiozni izve拧taji diraju u srce. Detaljan opis dana koji prethode bitci kod Salamine govori kako Atinjani 拧alju ambasadore u proro膷i拧te u Delfima kako bi proverili 拧ta da rade povodom nadolaze膰e persijske invazije. Dobijaju odgovor 鈥淏ednici, a 拧to sedite? Be啪ite na kraj sveta! Ostav鈥檛e domove va拧e i bre啪uljke okruglog grada. Jer mi ni glava 膷itava, ni telo ostati ne膰e鈥� 膶ist鈥檛e se sad iz hrama i na nevolje spremni bud鈥檛e.鈥�
Kad su ve膰 pali u o膷ajanje posle ovoga, vrate se jo拧 jednom, sa novim 啪rtvama i mole za ugodnije proro膷anstvo: 鈥淕ospode, smiluj se na ove gran膷ice s kojima smo ti do拧li i proreci nam ne拧to bolje o na拧oj otad啪bini, u protivnom slu膷aju ne膰emo oti膰i iz hrama, nego 膰emo ostati tu dok ne umremo.鈥� Sre膰om, dok sam ovo prepri膷avao 膰erki, seckao sam luk za ramstek, pa nije mogla biti sigurna zbog 膷ega tati suze o膷i.
Herodot poku拧ava da bude objektivan i ne predstavlja varvare kao proste divljake, ali ipak se radi o ratu izme膽u sila porobljavanja (Persije) i sila slobode (Atina) i njegova strast izbija sa svake strane. I ta strast se kroz ovo (ina膷e, prvo pre啪ivelo duga膷ko delo u prozi) prenosi i na 膷itaoca. Priznajem, ponekad nije lako ispratiti sve sitnice - poznavanje gr膷ke mitologije je skoro pa preduslov, a ne treba zaboraviti da je ovo istorija bez godina, pa je fino pratiti Vikipediju za dobijanje ose膰aja o vremenu - ali vredi truda. Herodot u uvodu ka啪e da je ovo delo pisao 鈥渞adi toga da se vremenom ne bi umanjio zna膷aj onoga 拧to je 膷ove膷anstvo stvorilo, te da velika i divna dela, i ona koja su stvorili Heleni, kao i ona koja su stvorili varvari, ne bi bila zaboravljena, i zato da bi objasnio za拧to je izme膽u Helena i varvara dolazilo do ratova.鈥� 膶itamo ga 2.500 godina kasnije, moglo bi se re膰i da je uspeo u tome.
P.S. Pre 膷itanja odgledao sam sjajan
.
February 26, 2018
If you are an English speaker there is no reason for you to consider buying any other edition of this text. Brilliantly translated, filled with just the right amount of footnotes, maps and pictures, and there is an appendix for pretty much everything you could think of.
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July 7, 2010"When the moment finally came to declare their purpose, the Babylonians, in order to reduce the consumption of food, herded together and strangled all the women in the city - each man exempting only his mother, and one other woman whom he chose out of his household to bake his bread for him."
As the British Government bludgeons the nation with its ideologically-driven 'Austerity Budget', note that the ancients had a strategy or two for surviving straitened times themselves. And they managed to protect 'front-line' services. Who doesn't like to wake up to the smell of freshly-baked rolls? Now, how does one get one's hands on Theresa May?
"...As for Samos, the Persians took the entire population like fish in a drag-net, and presented Syloson with an empty island. Some years later, however, Otanes contracted some sort of disease of the genital organs and that, in conjunction with a dream he had, induced him to repopulate the place."
Seriously. Wtf?! I mean, who hasn't dreamed of personally repopulating an island [I know I have:], but just how fertile does a guy have to be that an std leaves him debilitated to the degree that he can only re-seed an entire race like some Zeus on the loose? I thought all these dudes preferred boys so what's with that? If I didn't know Herodotus had such a downer on hearsay I'd swear someone was pulling his leg.
"...for I have never heard of a man who after an unbroken run of luck was not finally brought to complete ruin. Now I suggest that you deal with the danger of your continual successes in the following way: think of whatever it is you value most - whatever you would most regret the loss of - and throw it away: throw it right away, so that nobody can ever see it again. If, after that, you do not find that success alternates with failure then go on using the remedy I have advised."
Harsh.
"...He was blind for ten years, after which he received an oracle from the city of Buto to the effect that the time of his punishment being now ended, he would recover his sight, if he washed his eyes with the urine of a woman who had never lain with any man except her husband.
He tried his wife first, but without success - he remained as blind as ever."
Jeez, there has to be an easier way to discover you're a cuckold.
As the British Government bludgeons the nation with its ideologically-driven 'Austerity Budget', note that the ancients had a strategy or two for surviving straitened times themselves. And they managed to protect 'front-line' services. Who doesn't like to wake up to the smell of freshly-baked rolls? Now, how does one get one's hands on Theresa May?
"...As for Samos, the Persians took the entire population like fish in a drag-net, and presented Syloson with an empty island. Some years later, however, Otanes contracted some sort of disease of the genital organs and that, in conjunction with a dream he had, induced him to repopulate the place."
Seriously. Wtf?! I mean, who hasn't dreamed of personally repopulating an island [I know I have:], but just how fertile does a guy have to be that an std leaves him debilitated to the degree that he can only re-seed an entire race like some Zeus on the loose? I thought all these dudes preferred boys so what's with that? If I didn't know Herodotus had such a downer on hearsay I'd swear someone was pulling his leg.
"...for I have never heard of a man who after an unbroken run of luck was not finally brought to complete ruin. Now I suggest that you deal with the danger of your continual successes in the following way: think of whatever it is you value most - whatever you would most regret the loss of - and throw it away: throw it right away, so that nobody can ever see it again. If, after that, you do not find that success alternates with failure then go on using the remedy I have advised."
Harsh.
"...He was blind for ten years, after which he received an oracle from the city of Buto to the effect that the time of his punishment being now ended, he would recover his sight, if he washed his eyes with the urine of a woman who had never lain with any man except her husband.
He tried his wife first, but without success - he remained as blind as ever."
Jeez, there has to be an easier way to discover you're a cuckold.
April 27, 2020
Astyages had a daughter called Mandane, and he dreamed one night that she urinated in such enormous quantities that it filled his city and swamped the whole of Asia.
These Landmark editions are an amazing resource. The Father of history reveals the story of the Persian Wars and by achieving such he contextualizes with anthropological glosses on all the relevant parties. Each succession, each tradition is explored. Is there speculation and conjecture? Well, of course. The approach aspires to an objectivity, affording itself a modernity away from the paen or heroic song. Logistics becomes the order of the day, people grasp that such and not portents or divine favor are what matter. Internecine squabbling appears to be the yoke of civilization. The anecdotes which punctuate are the feats which resound.
Accordingly the Psylli took counsel among themselves, and by common consent made war upon the southwind---so at least the Libyans say, I do but repeat their words---they went forth and reached the desert; but there the south-wind rose and buried them under heaps of sand: whereupon, the Psylli being destroyed, their lands passed to the Nasamonians.
The maps which dominate the Landmark Edition are essential to grasping this sociology of war. The appendixes in the back of the tome were intriguing, particularly exploring the estimation of the sizes of the armies and the consequent impossibility of provisioning for such. I was rather familiar with these arguments, as Delbruck is adamant about the challenges of even feeding mid-sized minatory bands, much less what constitutes nations at war. Incredibly cumbersome, it has been one of the few benefits of the stay at home order: after work, there have few distractions to pull one away from Herodotus.
These Landmark editions are an amazing resource. The Father of history reveals the story of the Persian Wars and by achieving such he contextualizes with anthropological glosses on all the relevant parties. Each succession, each tradition is explored. Is there speculation and conjecture? Well, of course. The approach aspires to an objectivity, affording itself a modernity away from the paen or heroic song. Logistics becomes the order of the day, people grasp that such and not portents or divine favor are what matter. Internecine squabbling appears to be the yoke of civilization. The anecdotes which punctuate are the feats which resound.
Accordingly the Psylli took counsel among themselves, and by common consent made war upon the southwind---so at least the Libyans say, I do but repeat their words---they went forth and reached the desert; but there the south-wind rose and buried them under heaps of sand: whereupon, the Psylli being destroyed, their lands passed to the Nasamonians.
The maps which dominate the Landmark Edition are essential to grasping this sociology of war. The appendixes in the back of the tome were intriguing, particularly exploring the estimation of the sizes of the armies and the consequent impossibility of provisioning for such. I was rather familiar with these arguments, as Delbruck is adamant about the challenges of even feeding mid-sized minatory bands, much less what constitutes nations at war. Incredibly cumbersome, it has been one of the few benefits of the stay at home order: after work, there have few distractions to pull one away from Herodotus.
September 19, 2019
Talk about an on point beard!
A surprisingly fun read and certainly worth it for historical significance alone.
A surprisingly fun read and certainly worth it for historical significance alone.
August 14, 2021
If Herodotus only kept to his main story, the growth of Persia and its eventual halt by Greece, the book would probably be only 200 pages long. Thank God he didn't do this. The Histories is a narration of the known world and the people living in it. When introducing a new character, even unimportant ones, he gives very interesting backstories. One of my favourite stories is about Cleisthenes of Sicyon who organized a competition whose winner was to marry his daughter Agariste. Cleisthenes tests the suitors' courage, character, education and manners by spending time with them for a year. Some Athenian guy named Hippoclides pleases the tyrant of Sicyon the most, but then he does something very embarrassing. He dances on a table and then dances while standing on his head, like modern breakdancers. Cleisthenes doesn't want this man to marry his daughter anymore and says: "Son of Tisander, you have danced your marriage away." Hippoclides has the greatest comeback in history and simply replies: "Hippoclides doesn't care!" as if he participated in the competition for a year just to have fun and party. You might wonder what this story has to do with Persia's conquest of Greece. Well, not a lot. Cleisthenes is just an ancestor of the important statesman and general Pericles, who doesn't have anything to do with the main story either.
Herodotus doesn't just narrate about individuals, but also about whole nations. Book 2 focuses mainly on Egypt. Herodotus tells about its geography, the animals living in the country, the religion, its culture and its history. The Egyptians have customs which seem very weird to Herodotus. He explains a typical Egyptian party: "After the meal at a party of well-to-do Egyptians, a man carries round the room in a coffin a corpse made of wood, which has been painted and carved so as to be as lifelike as possible, and whose length is about a cubit or two. The man shows the corpse to all the guests, one by one, while saying: 'Look on this while you drink, for this will be your lot when you are dead'. That is what happens at Egyptian parties." Especially the last remark seems really funny to me. I can see a hint of distate in this sentence.
Herodotus doesn't just write down what he has heard, he also comments whether he thinks the story could be real or is fabricated. That's really great about him. He writes like a real scientist who doesn't just believe everything he's been told. It's really a great book and I recommend everyone to read it. You will learn a lot about how people used to live.
Herodotus doesn't just narrate about individuals, but also about whole nations. Book 2 focuses mainly on Egypt. Herodotus tells about its geography, the animals living in the country, the religion, its culture and its history. The Egyptians have customs which seem very weird to Herodotus. He explains a typical Egyptian party: "After the meal at a party of well-to-do Egyptians, a man carries round the room in a coffin a corpse made of wood, which has been painted and carved so as to be as lifelike as possible, and whose length is about a cubit or two. The man shows the corpse to all the guests, one by one, while saying: 'Look on this while you drink, for this will be your lot when you are dead'. That is what happens at Egyptian parties." Especially the last remark seems really funny to me. I can see a hint of distate in this sentence.
Herodotus doesn't just write down what he has heard, he also comments whether he thinks the story could be real or is fabricated. That's really great about him. He writes like a real scientist who doesn't just believe everything he's been told. It's really a great book and I recommend everyone to read it. You will learn a lot about how people used to live.
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February 3, 2024A really interesting historical document. There's an appropriate balance between action and analysis, but with an introduction that is quite too long. Sometimes there are too many flashbacks and digressions about all kinds of details. But nevertheless a great read, as a story teller Herodotus is unparalleled, illustrating that - regardless of issues of method - history is and always will be a narrative.
It's clear Herodotus sees history as the story of great men and their greed, ambition, courage and sacrifice. But also dreams (predictive value), oracles (always right!), and a few times even the intervention of the gods play a key role. Fate is present in the background.
Noteworthy is the light adoring undertone concerning the Persians, especially Cyrus; on the other hand the Greeks are described as a bunch of scum (especially the Ionians), only Sparte is treated by Herodotus in a neutral way.
It's clear Herodotus sees history as the story of great men and their greed, ambition, courage and sacrifice. But also dreams (predictive value), oracles (always right!), and a few times even the intervention of the gods play a key role. Fate is present in the background.
Noteworthy is the light adoring undertone concerning the Persians, especially Cyrus; on the other hand the Greeks are described as a bunch of scum (especially the Ionians), only Sparte is treated by Herodotus in a neutral way.
January 11, 2019
Herodotus tells a story of how Croesus, King of Lydia, the richest and 鈥╩ost favored leader of his time, asked Solon the Athenian, a leading question.鈥� He would not have asked it if he had he not been worried about the answer.鈥�'Who, he asked, 'is the luckiest person in the world?' He must have been eaten鈥� with doubt, and hungry for reassurance. Solon told him of three lucky people in鈥� old times. And Croesus more than likely did not listen; so anxious was he 鈥╝bout himself. And when Solon did not mention him, Croesus was forced to say, 'Do鈥� you consider me lucky?' Solon did not hesitate in his answer. 'How can I 鈥╰ell?' he said. 'You aren't dead yet.'
Later, Croesus sent to the great Oracle at Delphi to know whether he should go to war against the Persians, and the oracle replied: "If Croesus goes to war he will destroy a great empire." Pleased by this answer, Croesus made his necessary alliances and preparations and went out to meet the Persian army. Croesus and his troops were defeated. Croesus鈥� wife committed suicide and Croesus was dragged before King Cyrus in chains. Croesus figured out that the great empire that would be destroyed would be his own, not the Persian. Most modern-day scholars and historians believe that Croesus died on the pyre where he was placed by Cyrus.
Herodotus opines: "No one is stupid enough to prefer war to peace; in peace sons bury their fathers and in war fathers bury their sons." But the Greeks were great believers in fate, so he adds "However, I suppose the god must have wanted this to happen."
Later, Croesus sent to the great Oracle at Delphi to know whether he should go to war against the Persians, and the oracle replied: "If Croesus goes to war he will destroy a great empire." Pleased by this answer, Croesus made his necessary alliances and preparations and went out to meet the Persian army. Croesus and his troops were defeated. Croesus鈥� wife committed suicide and Croesus was dragged before King Cyrus in chains. Croesus figured out that the great empire that would be destroyed would be his own, not the Persian. Most modern-day scholars and historians believe that Croesus died on the pyre where he was placed by Cyrus.
Herodotus opines: "No one is stupid enough to prefer war to peace; in peace sons bury their fathers and in war fathers bury their sons." But the Greeks were great believers in fate, so he adds "However, I suppose the god must have wanted this to happen."
February 13, 2016
Oh Herodotus, in some ways I feel like he was my college roommate - fore I spent that much time with him... very enjoyable reading from the "Father of History" about the spread of Hellenism and the Persian empire. Read for my senior thesis in undergrad - it was good to read these classics.
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May 21, 2017More Infinite Jest than The History of the Peloponnesian War. Honest.
Wish I had the Landmark edition at the time. But Oxford does make nice books.
Wish I had the Landmark edition at the time. But Oxford does make nice books.
October 19, 2010
Although he is the very first historian in Western Civilization, Herodotus has something of a bad reputation for being too gullible. Current critical opinion tends to favor Herodotus's near contemporary, Thucydides, the author of an equally great history of The Peloponnesian War. And yet, as I re-read the earlier book, I was surprised that Herodotus frequently notes that he doesn't always believe what he has been told, but presents it anyhow, if only because the Greek word for "history" is the same as the Greek word for "investigation." There is something of the ethnologist in Herodotus: He is an Ionian from Halicarnassus, a people who have had a much longer acquaintance with the Persians, Medes, Assyrians, and other peoples of the East than the mainland Greeks.
The first five of the nine books of The Histories are mostly a survey of the peoples who allied themselves with Darius and Xerxes in their invasions of Greece. It is here that most of the outlandish anecdotes are concentrated, in his investigations of such peoples as the Egyptians, Libyans, and Scythians. Once the invasions themselves begins, his history becomes more exciting, with fewer digressions and greater plausibility.
I would recommend that readers take the first five books slowly and savor the strangeness. Once the battles of Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis, Plataea and Mycale had been fought, Herodotus showed himself to be a true Greek and one fiercely proud of his heritage.
The first five of the nine books of The Histories are mostly a survey of the peoples who allied themselves with Darius and Xerxes in their invasions of Greece. It is here that most of the outlandish anecdotes are concentrated, in his investigations of such peoples as the Egyptians, Libyans, and Scythians. Once the invasions themselves begins, his history becomes more exciting, with fewer digressions and greater plausibility.
I would recommend that readers take the first five books slowly and savor the strangeness. Once the battles of Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis, Plataea and Mycale had been fought, Herodotus showed himself to be a true Greek and one fiercely proud of his heritage.
June 27, 2017
Bir solukta okursunuz, destans谋 眉slubunu seversiniz, ba艧ta sayfa say谋s谋 莽ok gibi gelir, ne zaman bitti anlamazs谋n谋z.
Yunan-Pers m眉cadelesi 枚zellikle Leonidas ve Kserkses aras谋 m眉cadeleleri anlat谋ld谋臒谋 b枚l眉m nefisti!
K眉t眉phaneden alarak okudum, Calibromda e kitap olarak var ama en k谋sa zamanda bas谋l谋 bir versiyonu da k眉t眉phanemizde olsun isterim.
Ba艧 ucu eseri!
Ayr谋ca M眉ntekim 脰kmen'de harika dip notlar hazm谋艧. Kafan谋z tak谋l谋nca h谋z谋r gibi yeti艧iyor. 脰lmeden mutlaka okuyun, okutun!
Yunan-Pers m眉cadelesi 枚zellikle Leonidas ve Kserkses aras谋 m眉cadeleleri anlat谋ld谋臒谋 b枚l眉m nefisti!
K眉t眉phaneden alarak okudum, Calibromda e kitap olarak var ama en k谋sa zamanda bas谋l谋 bir versiyonu da k眉t眉phanemizde olsun isterim.
Ba艧 ucu eseri!
Ayr谋ca M眉ntekim 脰kmen'de harika dip notlar hazm谋艧. Kafan谋z tak谋l谋nca h谋z谋r gibi yeti艧iyor. 脰lmeden mutlaka okuyun, okutun!
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