Name: 禺丕胤乇丕鬲 爻賯乇丕胤蹖
Rating: 4.05 (165 reviews)
ISBN: 9789644870842

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禺丕胤乇丕鬲爻賯乇丕胤蹖

Xenophon, 賲丨賲丿丨爻賳賱胤賮蹖听(Translator)

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Memorabilia (峒埾€慰渭谓畏渭慰谓蔚蠉渭伪蟿伪) is a collection of Socratic dialogs by Xenophon, a student of Socrates. The lengthiest & most famous of his Socratic writings, the Memorabilia is essentially a defense of Socrates, differing from both his Apology of Socrates to the Jury & Plato's Apology mainly in that the Apologies present Socrates as defending himself before the jury, whereas the former presents Xenophon's own defense of Socrates, offering edifying examples of Socrates' conversations & activities along with occasional commentary from Xenophon. Memorabilia is also known by its Latin title Commentarii & a variety of English translations (Recollections, Memoirs, Conversations of Socrates, etc). The Memorabilia was probably completed after 371 BC, as one passage (III.5) appears to assume the military situation after the Spartan defeat at the battle of Leuctra in that year.

GenresPhilosophyClassicsHistoryNonfictionAncientGreeceBiography

216 pages, Hardcover

First published January 1, 371

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About the author

Xenophon

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Xenophon (Ancient Greek 螢蔚谓慰蠁峥段�, Modern Greek 螢蔚谓慰蠁蠋谓蟿伪蟼; ca. 431 鈥� 355 BC), son of Gryllus, of the deme Erchia of Athens, was a soldier, mercenary and a contemporary and admirer of Socrates. He is known for his writings on the history of his own times, preserving the sayings of Socrates, and the life of ancient Greece.

Historical and biographical works:
Anabasis (or The Persian Expedition)
Cyropaedia
Hellenica
Agesilaus

Socratic works and dialogues:
Memorabilia
Oeconomicus
Symposium
Apology
Hiero

Short treatises:
On Horsemanship
The Cavalry General
Hunting with Dogs
Ways and Means
Constitution of Sparta

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Ahmad Sharabiani

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October 14, 2020

峒埾€慰位慰纬委伪危蠅魏蟻维蟿慰蠀蟼蟺蟻峤赶� 蟿慰峤合� 螖喂魏伪蟽蟿维蟼 = Apomnemoneumata Sokratus; Symposion; Apologia Sokratus, Xenophon

The Apology of Socrates to the Jury, by Xenophon of Athens, is a Socratic dialogue about the legal defense that the philosopher Socrates presented at his trial for the moral corruption of Athenian youth; and for impiety against the pantheon of Athens; judged guilty, Socrates was sentenced to death.

鬲丕乇蹖禺賳禺爻鬲蹖賳禺賵丕賳卮: 爻丕賱 1994賲蹖賱丕丿蹖

毓賳賵丕賳: 禺鈥嵷ж坟必ж€� 爻鈥嵸傗€嵷必ж粉屸€屫� 賳鈥嵸堐屫迟嗀団€�: 讴鈥嵷斥€嵸嗏€嵸堎佲€嵸堎� (诏夭賳賮賵賳)貨賲鬲鈥嵷必€嵸�: 賲鈥嵷€嵸呪€嵷€嵷斥€嵸嗏€� 賱鈥嵷焚佲€嵺屸€屫� 鬲賴乇丕賳貙禺賵丕乇夭賲蹖貙 1373貨丿乇賴卮鬲賵 216氐貨卮丕亘讴 9644870840貨趩丕倬丿賵賲 1385貨賲賵囟賵毓: 爻賯乇丕胤丕夭 469倬蹖卮丕夭賲蹖賱丕丿鬲丕爻丕賱 399倬蹖卮丕夭賲蹖賱丕丿丕夭賳賵蹖爻賳丿诏丕賳蹖賵賳丕賳蹖 - 爻丿賴 04倬蹖卮丕夭賲蹖賱丕丿蹖

讴鬲丕亘芦禺丕胤乇丕鬲爻賯乇丕胤賶禄賳賵卮鬲賴蹖芦诏夭賳賮賵賳禄貙丕乇丕卅賴鈥徻┵嗁嗀� 蹖賳诏丕賴賶丿蹖诏乇賵丕夭賳賵毓睾蹖乇丕賮賱丕胤賵賳賶貙亘賴芦爻賯乇丕胤禄丕爻鬲貨芦诏夭賳賮賵賳禄亘乇丌賳丕爻鬲鬲丕亘丕丕爻鬲禺乇丕噩賮賱爻賮賴蹖爻蹖丕爻賶芦爻賯乇丕胤禄貙丕夭丕孬乇賶讴賴賲丕賴蹖鬲夭賳丿诏蹖賳丕賲賴丿丕乇丿貙亘乇丿丕卮鬲賶賳賵蹖賳丕乇丕卅賴讴賳丿貨賲亘丕丨孬賶賴賲趩賵賳乇賵卮诏賮鬲诏賵賶芦爻賯乇丕胤禄貙丕賳爻丕賳鈥徹促嗀ж迟� 賵賲毓乇賮鬲鈥� 卮賳丕爻賶丕賳爻丕賳賶芦爻賯乇丕胤禄貙讴賴賲亘鬲賳賶亘乇鬲賵丕賳丕蹖賶丕賳爻丕賳貙亘乇丕蹖賮賴賲蹖丿賳乇丕爻鬲蹖賴丕賵卮賳丕禺鬲禺賵蹖卮鬲賳丕爻鬲貙鬲卮讴蹖賱噩丕賲毓賴蹖爻蹖丕爻賶賵亘乇倬丕蹖賶丿賵賱鬲貙丕賯亘丕賱卮賴乇賵賳丿丕賳丿乇倬蹖乇賵賶乇囟丕蹖鬲鈥徺呝嗀з嗁� 丕夭賯丕賳賵賳貙賮囟蹖賱鬲鈥徺呚堌辟壺� 賵丌乇賲丕賳噩丕賲毓賴爻蹖丕爻賶貙丕夭噩賲賱賴賲亘丕丨孬賮賱爻賮賶爻蹖丕爻賶丕爻鬲貨倬乇爻卮丕爻丕爻賶丕蹖賳丕爻鬲讴賴丌蹖丕芦爻賯乇丕胤禄蹖讴賮賷賱爻賵賮丕禺賱丕賯賶貙蹖丕蹖讴賮蹖賱爻賵賮爻蹖丕爻賶亘賵丿賴丕爻鬲責賳诏丕乇賳丿賴 (诏夭賳賮賵賳) 亘乇丌賳丕爻鬲貙鬲丕丕孬亘丕鬲讴賳丿貙讴賴芦爻賯乇丕胤禄亘蹖卮丕夭丌賳讴賴氐乇賮丕蹖讴賲毓賱賲丕禺賱丕賯貙賵蹖丕蹖讴賮賷賱爻賵賮丕禺賱丕賯亘丕卮賳丿貙賮蹖賱爻賵賮爻賷丕爻賶亘賵丿賴丕賳丿

鬲丕乇蹖禺亘賴賳诏丕賲乇爻丕賳蹖 22/07/1399賴噩乇蹖禺賵乇卮蹖丿蹖貨丕. 卮乇亘蹖丕賳蹖

础驳颈谤(丌诏赛乇)

437 reviews622 followers

September 23, 2015

丿賱鬲乇丕丕夭趩賴乇丕賴亘丿爻鬲丌賵乇賲責
爻賯乇丕胤诏賮鬲 : 賴乇賵賯鬲賳蹖丕夭賲賳丿賲賳卮丿蹖貙乇丕賴丌賳乇丕禺賵丿讴卮賮禺賵丕賴蹖讴乇丿

爻賯乇丕胤蹖丕丿乇丕氐賱 爻賵讴乇丕鬲爻 丕賳爻丕賳蹖亘夭乇诏賵賵丕賱丕亘賵丿賴讴賴丕賳爻丕賳蹖鬲賲蹖鬲賵丕賳丿亘賴賵噩賵丿卮賮禺乇亘賮乇賵卮丿
賲乇丿蹖讴賴丿乇丕蹖賳噩賴丕賳賲乇诏乇丕噩乇毓賴噩乇毓賴賳賵卮蹖丿鬲丕賳賴賲孬賴诏丕賱蹖賱賴賲噩亘賵乇卮賵丿爻禺賳丕賳蹖讴賴亘賴丌賳丕蹖賲丕賳丿丕卮鬲乇丕賳賮蹖讴賳丿
賵賳賴亘賲丕賳賳丿禺蹖賱蹖丕夭丕賳爻丕賳賴丕丿賵丿爻鬲蹖亘賴爻丕賱賴丕蹖倬丕蹖丕賳毓賲乇卮亘趩爻亘丿讴賴趩賳丿丕賳丕乇夭卮蹖亘乇丕蹖夭蹖爻鬲賳賳丿丕乇丿

:丿賵爻鬲蹖丿乇蹖讴蹖丕夭丕爻鬲丕鬲賵爻賴丕讴丕賲賳鬲噩丕賱亘蹖诏匕丕卮鬲賴亘賵丿賳丿

There is a funny claim that Xenophon's Socrates is closer to the real socrates than that of Plato's because Xenophon was not smart and imaginative enough to make up A Socrates

賲胤丕賱亘蹖丕夭讴鬲丕亘賲蹖丌賵乇賲鬲丕丿賵爻鬲丕賳蹖讴賴毓賱丕賯賲賳丿賴爻鬲賳丿亘蹖卮鬲乇亘丕爻賯乇丕胤讴爻賳賵賮賵賳丌卮賳丕卮賵賳丿

丿乇丕亘鬲丿丕亘诏賵蹖賲讴賴爻賯乇丕胤亘賴禺丿丕蹖丕賳亘丕賵乇丿丕卮鬲賵丨鬲蹖丕丿毓丕賲蹖讴乇丿讴賴 匕丕鬲丕賱賴蹖亘丕毓賱丕卅賲賵丕卮丕乇丕鬲蹖亘賴丕賵賮乇賲丕賳賲蹖丿賴丿讴賴趩賴亘丕蹖丿亘讴賳丿賵趩賴賳亘丕蹖丿亘讴賳丿
丕賲丕丿乇讴丕乇賴丕蹖蹖讴賴丿乇丨蹖胤賴禺乇丿亘賵丿賴賲賵丕乇賴賲蹖讴賵卮蹖丿丕夭賲賳胤賯倬蹖乇賵蹖讴賳丿賵丌賳乇丕亘賴亘禺鬲賵丕賯亘丕賱賵丕賳賲蹖诏匕丕卮鬲

賵蹖賲乇丿蹖亘爻蹖丕乇倬乇賴蹖夭讴丕乇亘賵丿賵亘賴賴乇賲賵诏賳爻倬爻乇賴蹖倬賵賳蹖讴賵爻诏賮鬲賴亘賵丿丿乇賴賲賴毓賲乇讴丕乇蹖賳讴乇丿賴丕賲噩夭丕蹖賳讴賴毓丿賱乇丕丕夭馗賱賲鬲卮禺蹖氐亘丿賴賲賵賲賵丕賮賯毓丿賱毓賲賱讴賳賲賵丕夭馗賱賲丿賵乇蹖亘噩賵蹖賲

賵蹖丿賵爻鬲丕賳卮乇丕亘賴禺賵蹖卮鬲賳丿丕乇蹖丿毓賵鬲賵丕夭賱诏丕賲诏爻蹖禺鬲诏蹖爻禺鬲賳賴蹖賲蹖讴乇丿
丕賱亘鬲賴賵蹖賱匕鬲亘乇丿賳丕夭夭賳丿诏蹖乇丕賳賮蹖賳賲蹖讴乇丿賵丨鬲蹖亘賴丿蹖诏乇丕賳賲蹖丌賲賵禺鬲讴賴
:趩诏賵賳賴賲蹖鬲賵丕賳亘蹖卮鬲乇賱匕鬲亘乇丿

丌蹖丕賲毓鬲賯丿蹖丿讴賴丌夭丕丿蹖诏乇丕賳亘賴丕鬲乇蹖賳孬乇賵鬲賴丕爻鬲責
亘賴毓賯蹖丿賴卮賲丕讴爻蹖讴賴丕爻蹖乇賴賵爻賴丕蹖鬲賳丕爻鬲賵亘丿蹖賳噩賴鬲丕夭讴丕乇賳蹖讴賳丕鬲賵丕賳貙丌蹖丕丌夭丕丿丕爻鬲責
丌蹖丕賲乇丿賲丕賳蹖讴賴亘乇賳賮爻禺賵丿鬲爻賱胤賳丿丕乇賳丿貙鬲賳賴丕丕夭讴丕乇賳蹖讴賳丕鬲賵丕賳賳丿貙蹖丕毓賱丕賵賴亘乇丕蹖賳賳丕趩丕乇賳丿讴賴亘丿鬲乇蹖賳讴丕乇賴丕乇丕丕賳噩丕賲丿賴賳丿責

爻禺鬲鬲乇蹖賳丕爻丕乇鬲賴丕鬲爻賱胤賳丿丕卮鬲賳亘乇賳賮爻禺賵蹖卮丕爻鬲
賱诏丕賲诏爻蹖禺鬲诏蹖丌丿賲蹖乇丕丕夭丿丕賳丕蹖蹖貙讴賴亘夭乇诏鬲乇蹖賳賲賵賴亘鬲賴丕爻鬲貙亘丕夭賲蹖丿丕乇丿

賵賴賲趩賳蹖賳賳賲蹖诏匕丕乇丿讴賴丿乇亘乇丕亘乇诏乇爻賳诏蹖賵鬲卮賳诏蹖賵丌乇夭賵蹖亘乇丌賵乇丿賳卮賴賵丕鬲賳賮爻丕賳蹖
倬丕蹖丿丕乇蹖讴賳蹖賲貙丨丕賱丌賳讴賴賲蹖丿丕賳蹖賲禺賵乇丿賳賵賳賵卮蹖丿賳賵禺賵丕亘蹖丿賳賵亘乇丌賵乇丿賳卮賴賵鬲賴賳诏丕賲蹖亘乇丕爻鬲蹖賱匕鬲亘禺卮丕爻鬲讴賴趩賳丿蹖丿乇亘乇丕亘乇丌賳賴丕倬丕蹖丿丕乇蹖卮賵丿. 亘賳丕亘乇丕蹖賳賱诏丕賲诏爻蹖禺鬲诏蹖賲丕乇丕丕夭丌賳賱匕丕蹖匕亘丕夭賲蹖丿丕乇丿貙賵賱蹖鬲爻賱胤亘乇賳賮爻爻亘亘賲蹖卮賵丿讴賴亘乇卮賴賵丕鬲毓賳丕賳亘夭賳蹖賲鬲丕鬲爻讴蹖賳丌賳賴丕賲丕蹖賴賱匕鬲賵卮丕丿賲丕賳蹖诏乇丿丿

爻賯乇丕胤禺賵丿睾匕丕趩賳丿丕賳亘讴丕乇賲蹖亘乇丿讴賴禺賵乇丿賳亘乇丕蹖卮賲丕蹖賴賱匕鬲亘丕卮丿貙賵鬲丕诏乇爻賳賴賳賲蹖卮丿丿爻鬲亘賴胤毓丕賲賳賲蹖亘乇丿.丕夭賴賲賴丌卮丕賲蹖丿賳蹖賴丕賱匕鬲賲蹖亘乇丿貙夭蹖乇丕鬲丕鬲卮賳賴賳賲蹖卮丿趩蹖夭蹖賳賲蹖賳賵卮蹖丿

毓賱賵賲丿乇賳馗乇爻賯乇丕胤

爻賯乇丕胤毓賱賵賲讴丕乇亘乇丿蹖賲丕賳賳丿蹖丕丿诏乇賮鬲賳賮賳賵賳賳馗丕賲蹖亘乇丕蹖丿賮丕毓丕夭賵胤賳賵倬蹖卮賴丕蹖乇丕蹖丕丿诏乇賮鬲賳亘乇丕蹖丕賲乇丕乇賲毓丕卮乇丕賵丕噩亘賲蹖丿丕賳爻鬲賵丿乇賲賵乇丿毓賱賵賲賳馗乇蹖貙亘蹖卮鬲乇丌賳賴丕蹖蹖乇丕賲蹖倬爻賳丿蹖丿讴賴丿乇乇丕亘胤賴亘丕丕賳爻丕賳亘丕卮賳丿
卮丕蹖丿鬲賳賴丕禺乇丿賴丕蹖讴賴亘乇丕賮讴丕乇爻賯乇丕胤丿乇丕蹖賳亘丕乇賴賲蹖鬲賵丕賳诏乇賮鬲丕蹖賳亘丕卮丿讴賴丿賵爻鬲丕賳卮乇丕丕夭倬乇丿丕禺鬲賳讴丕賲賱亘賴毓賱賵賲賴賳丿爻賴賵爻鬲丕乇賴卮賳丕爻蹖賵 ... 亘丕夭賲蹖丿丕卮鬲賵賲孬賱丕賲蹖诏賮鬲 丕賳爻丕賳亘丕蹖丿丕夭鬲賮讴乇丿乇亘丕乇賴賵賯丕蹖毓蹖讴賴丿乇丌爻賲丕賳乇賵蹖賲蹖丿賴丿丿賵乇蹖亘噩賵蹖丿
賴乇趩賳丿禺賵丿丿乇毓賱賵賲蹖賲丕賳賳丿賴賳丿爻賴賵爻鬲丕乇賴卮賳丕爻蹖亘蹖鬲亘丨乇賳亘賵丿賵賱蹖賲蹖诏賮鬲丌賲賵禺鬲賳丕蹖賳毓賱賲賴丕賴賲賴丕賵賯丕鬲丌丿賲蹖乇丕賲蹖诏蹖乇丿賵丕夭亘爻蹖丕乇蹖讴丕乇賴丕賵丿丕賳卮賴丕蹖爻賵丿賲賳丿亘丕夭賲蹖丿丕乇丿

丕賱亘鬲賴卮乇丕蹖胤丌賳夭賲丕賳乇丕亘丕蹖丿丿乇賳馗乇诏乇賮鬲賵亘賳馗乇賲爻賯乇丕胤鬲丕丨丿夭蹖丕丿蹖丨乇賮丿乇爻鬲蹖賲蹖夭賳丿

丌蹖丕禺賵乇卮蹖丿丌鬲卮丕爻鬲責

丕蹖賳丕丿毓丕蹖丌賳丕讴爻丕诏賵乇丕爻亘賵丿賵爻賯乇丕胤丿乇丕蹖賳亘丕乇賴賲蹖诏賵蹖丿讴賴丌丿賲蹖丕賳丿乇丌鬲卮亘丌爻丕賳蹖賲蹖賳诏乇賳丿賵賱蹖丿乇禺賵乇卮蹖丿賳賲蹖鬲賵丕賳賳丿賳诏乇蹖爻鬲賵丕诏乇丿乇丌賮鬲丕亘亘賳卮蹖賳賳丿乇賳诏倬賵爻鬲卮丕賳鬲蹖乇賴賲蹖卮賵丿貙賵賱蹖丌鬲卮丕蹖賳丕孬乇乇丕賳丿丕乇丿

:丿乇賲賵乇丿卮噩丕毓鬲

丕诏乇讴爻蹖丕夭丕賲乇蹖禺胤乇賳丕讴亘丿丕賳噩賴鬲賳鬲乇爻丿讴賴丌賳乇丕賳賲蹖卮賳丕爻丿丌蹖丕卮噩丕毓丕爻鬲責
賳賴亘禺丿丕貙賵诏乇賳賴亘爻蹖丕乇蹖丕夭丿蹖賵丕賳诏丕賳賵鬲乇爻賵蹖丕賳卮噩丕毓亘賵丿賳丿
卮噩丕毓讴爻蹖丕爻鬲讴賴丿乇亘乇丕亘乇丕賲賵乇禺胤乇賳丕讴乇賮鬲丕乇丿乇爻鬲丿乇倬蹖卮诏蹖乇丿貙賵鬲乇爻賵讴爻蹖丕爻鬲讴賴丿乇丕賳賲賵丕乇丿乇賮鬲丕乇卮賳丕丿乇爻鬲亘丕卮丿

:乇賵卮爻賯乇丕胤丿乇诏賮鬲诏賵賴丕

賴賳诏丕賲丕禺鬲賱丕賮賳馗乇丿乇賲爻丕賱賴丕蹖貙亘丨孬乇丕亘賴诏賮鬲賵诏賵丿乇丕爻丕爻賲爻丕賱賴賲蹖讴卮丕賳丿貙賵丨賯蹖賯鬲亘乇讴爻丕賳蹖賴賲讴賴賳禺爻鬲賲禺丕賱賮毓賯蹖丿賴爻賯乇丕胤亘賵丿賳丿乇賵卮賳賲蹖诏乇丿蹖丿
賴賳诏丕賲蹖讴賴賲蹖禺賵丕爻鬲賲胤賱亘蹖乇丕鬲卮乇蹖丨讴賳丿貙亘蹖丕賳禺賵丿乇丕亘丕賲胤丕賱亘蹖丌睾丕夭賲蹖讴乇丿讴賴賲賵乇丿賯亘賵賱賴賲賴亘賵丿賵亘賴乇賵卮丿乇爻鬲倬蹖卮賲蹖乇賮鬲賵賲毓鬲賯丿亘賵丿讴賴丕賳爻丕賳亘丿蹖賳鬲乇鬲蹖亘亘賴賳鬲丕蹖噩蹖讴賴丕夭丕賳丿蹖卮賴禺賵丿賲蹖诏蹖乇丿丕毓鬲賲丕丿鬲賵丕賳丿讴乇丿

:丿乇賲賵乇丿賲丨亘鬲讴乇丿賳

爻賯乇丕胤诏賮鬲: 卮賴丿賲丨亘鬲禺賵蹖卮乇丕賮賯胤亘賴讴爻丕賳蹖亘趩卮丕賳讴賴賲卮鬲丕賯丌賳賳丿 夭蹖乇丕禺賵丿賳蹖讴賲蹖丿丕賳蹖讴賴賱匕蹖匕鬲乇蹖賳禺賵乇丕讴賴丕丕诏乇亘蹖丕卮鬲賴丕禺賵乇丿賴卮賵丿趩賳丿丕賳丿賱倬匕蹖乇賳賲蹖丕賮鬲丿貙賵丨鬲蹖亘乇丕蹖爻蹖乇丕賳亘蹖夭丕乇蹖賵丿賱丕卮賵亘賴賲蹖丌賵乇丿貙丨丕賱丌賳讴賴丿乇诏乇爻賳诏蹖賴乇睾匕丕蹖爻丕丿賴丕蹖丿賱倬匕蹖乇賵诏賵丕乇丕爻鬲
鬲卅賵丿賵鬲賴诏賮鬲: 趩賴亘丕蹖丿亘讴賳賲鬲丕讴爻蹖賲卮鬲丕賯賲卮賵丿責
倬丕爻禺丿丕丿: 賱匕鬲賲丨亘鬲鬲乇丕亘賴爻蹖乇丕賳毓乇囟賴賲讴賳鬲丕诏乇爻賳賴卮賵賳丿. 丌賳诏丕賴賴賲鬲丕賲蹖鬲賵丕賳蹖賲蹖賱蹖亘賴賴賲賳卮蹖賳蹖亘丕丌賳丕賳賳卮丕賳賲丿賴鬲丕诏賲丕賳讴賳賳丿讴賴丕夭丿爻鬲卮丕賳賲蹖诏乇蹖夭蹖賵丌鬲卮丕卮鬲蹖丕賯卮丕賳鬲蹖夭鬲乇卮賵丿夭蹖乇丕賴乇趩蹖夭亘賴賴賳诏丕賲丕卮鬲蹖丕賯亘爻蹖丕乇亘蹖卮鬲乇賲蹖丕乇夭丿鬲丕亘賵賯鬲亘蹖賲蹖賱蹖

:賮囟蹖賱鬲賵乇匕蹖賱鬲

:賴夭蹖賵丿賲蹖诏賵蹖丿
亘丿蹖乇丕亘賴丌爻丕賳蹖賲蹖鬲賵丕賳亘賴趩賳诏丌賵乇丿
夭蹖乇丕乇丕賴亘丿蹖讴賵鬲丕賴賵丌爻丕賳丕爻鬲
賵賱蹖禺丿丕蹖丕賳噩丕賵蹖丿丕賳毓乇賯乇蹖禺鬲賳乇丕卮乇胤乇爻蹖丿賳亘賴賮囟蹖賱鬲丿丕賳爻鬲賴丕賳丿. 乇丕賴賮囟蹖賱鬲讴賵乇賴乇丕賴蹖丕爻鬲丿乇丕夭賵賳丕賴賲賵丕乇讴賴丌睾丕夭卮爻禺鬲賵丕賳噩丕賲卮貙丌賳噩丕讴賴亘賴賯賱賴丌賳賲蹖乇爻蹖貙丌爻丕賳賵賴賲賵丕乇丕爻鬲

:丕倬蹖禺丕乇賲賵爻賳蹖夭賲蹖诏賵蹖丿
禺丿丕蹖丕賳賴乇賳蹖讴蹖乇丕亘賴亘賴丕蹖讴賵卮卮賲蹖賮乇賵卮賳丿

:賵丿乇噩丕蹖丿蹖诏乇賲蹖诏賵蹖丿
丕蹖丕亘賱賴貙乇丕丨鬲蹖賲禺賵丕賴鬲丕亘賴夭丨賲鬲賳蹖賵賮鬲蹖

丿丕爻鬲丕賳夭蹖乇乇丕趩賳丿爻丕賱賯亘賱亘胤賵乇禺賱丕氐賴禺賵丕賳丿賴亘賵丿賲賵禺賵丕賳丿賳讴丕賲賱丌賳賵丕賯毓丕賱匕鬲亘禺卮亘賵丿

:倬乇賵丿蹖讴賵爻丨讴蹖賲賴賲丿乇賵氐賮賴乇丕讴賱爻(賴乇讴賵賱) 趩賳蹖賳賳賵卮鬲賴丕爻鬲

趩賵賳賴乇丕讴賱爻讴賵丿讴蹖乇丕倬卮鬲爻乇賳賴丕丿賵亘賴爻賳亘賱賵睾乇爻蹖丿- 賵丌賳賴賳诏丕賲蹖丕爻鬲讴賴噩賵丕賳丕賳丕爻鬲賯賱丕賱乇丕蹖賲蹖蹖丕亘賳丿賵丿乇爻蹖賲丕蹖卮丕賳賳賲賵丿丕乇賲蹖卮賵丿讴賴丿乇夭賳丿诏蹖亘賴賮囟蹖賱鬲禺賵丕賴賳丿诏乇賵蹖丿蹖丕亘賴乇匕蹖賱鬲- 乇賵夭蹖亘賴诏賵卮賴丕蹖賳卮爻鬲賵丿乇丕賳丿蹖卮賴賮乇賵乇賮鬲鬲丕丿乇蹖丕亘丿讴賴讴丿丕賲蹖讴丕夭丌賳丿賵乇丕乇丕亘丕蹖丿亘乇诏夭蹖賳丿

丕夭丿賵乇丿賵夭賳亘賱賳丿亘丕賱丕倬蹖丿丕卮丿賳丿讴賴蹖讴蹖夭蹖亘丕亘賵丿賵丌孬丕乇賳噩丕亘鬲丕夭趩賴乇賴丕卮賳賲丕蹖丕賳亘賵丿賵噩丕賲賴丕蹖爻賮蹖丿亘賴鬲賳丿丕卮鬲賵夭蹖賵乇蹖噩夭爻蹖賲丕蹖倬丕讴蹖夭賴賵趩卮賲丕賳卮乇賲诏蹖賳賵賯蹖丕賮賴賳噩蹖亘賳丿丕卮鬲
丿蹖诏乇蹖賮乇亘賴亘賵丿賵趩賴乇賴禺賵丿乇丕亘丕诏賱诏賵賳賴賵爻賮蹖丿丕亘乇賳诏讴乇丿賴亘賵丿趩賳丕賳讴賴爻賮蹖丿鬲乇賵爻乇禺鬲乇丕夭丌賳趩賴禺賵丿亘賵丿賲蹖賳賲賵丿賵賲蹖讴賵卮蹖丿鬲丕賯丕賲鬲禺賵丿乇丕亘丕賱丕鬲乇丕夭丌賳趩賴賴爻鬲亘賳賲丕蹖丿. 趩卮賲丕賳蹖丿乇蹖丿賴丿丕卮鬲賵噩丕賲賴丕蹖賳丕夭讴倬賵卮蹖丿賴亘賵丿鬲丕夭蹖亘丕蹖蹖亘丿賳乇丕賴乇趩賴亘蹖卮鬲乇賳賲丕蹖丕賳爻丕夭丿. 賴乇丿賲亘賴禺賵丿賵爻丕蹖賴禺賵丿賲蹖賳诏乇蹖爻鬲賵賲蹖讴賵卮蹖丿鬲丕賳诏丕賴丿蹖诏乇丕賳乇丕亘賴禺賵丿噩賱亘讴賳丿

趩賵賳亘賴賴乇丕讴賱爻賳夭丿蹖讴卮賳丿貙夭賳賳禺爻鬲蹖賳鬲睾蹖蹖乇蹖丿乇乇賮鬲丕乇禺賵丿賳丿丕丿貨賵賱蹖夭賳丿賵賲
:倬蹖卮鬲乇丕賮鬲丕丿賵禺賵丿乇丕夭賵丿鬲乇亘賴賴乇丕讴賱爻乇爻丕賳丿賵诏賮鬲

賴乇丕讴賱爻貙賲蹖亘蹖賳賲丿乇鬲乇丿蹖丿蹖讴賴讴丿丕賲蹖讴丕夭丿賵乇丕賴乇丕丿乇倬蹖卮诏蹖乇蹖. 丕诏乇賲乇丕亘賴丿賵爻鬲蹖亘乇诏夭蹖賳蹖賵亘賴丿賳亘丕賱賲賳亘蹖丕蹖蹖鬲乇丕亘賴乇丕賴蹖賴賲賵丕乇賵丕爻丕賳乇賴賳賲賵賳賲蹖卮賵賲賵賴蹖趩賱匕鬲蹖乇丕丕夭鬲賵丿乇蹖睾賳蹖賲賵乇夭賲賵賳賲蹖诏匕丕乇賲讴賵趩讴鬲乇蹖賳乇賳噩蹖亘賴鬲賵亘乇爻丿. 讴丕乇蹖賲蹖讴賳賲讴賴賴賲賵丕乇賴丕夭丕賳丿蹖卮賴噩賳诏賵讴丕乇賵讴賵卮卮賮丕乇睾亘丕卮蹖賵禺賵乇丕讴賴丕蹖賱匕蹖匕亘禺賵乇蹖賵賳賵卮蹖丿賳蹖賴丕蹖诏賵丕乇丕亘賳賵卮蹖賵亘丕賴乇倬爻乇蹖讴賴賲蹖倬爻賳丿蹖賳卮爻鬲賵亘乇禺丕爻鬲讴賳蹖賵丿乇亘爻鬲乇賳乇賲亘禺賵丕亘蹖賵亘賴賴乇丌乇夭賵蹖蹖讴賴丿乇爻乇丿丕乇蹖亘丌爻丕賳蹖亘乇爻蹖

丕诏乇丕蹖賳丕賳丿蹖卮賴丿乇丿賱鬲乇丕賴亘蹖丕亘丿讴賴卮丕蹖丿乇賵夭蹖鬲賳诏丿爻鬲卮賵蹖賵亘賴丌賳趩賴丿賱鬲賲蹖禺賵丕賴丿丿爻鬲賳蹖丕亘蹖貙賳诏乇丕賳賳亘丕卮貨趩賵賳賲賳賳賲蹖诏匕丕乇賲丿賵爻鬲丕賳賲鬲賳賵賳賮爻禺賵丿乇丕亘夭丨賲鬲亘蹖賮讴賳賳丿賵亘乇丕蹖亘乇丌賵乇丿賳賴賵爻賴丕蹖禺賵丿鬲賳亘賴讴丕乇賵讴賵卮卮亘賴賳丿亘賱讴賴讴丕乇蹖賲蹖讴賳賲讴賴鬲賵丕夭丨丕氐賱讴丕乇丿蹖诏乇丕賳亘賴乇賴亘乇诏蹖乇蹖賵賴蹖趩賮乇氐鬲蹖乇丕亘乇丕蹖诏乇丿丌賵乇丿賳賲丕賱丕夭丿爻鬲賳丿賴蹖貙夭蹖乇丕賲賳亘賴丿賵爻鬲丕賳賲丕蹖賳鬲賵丕賳丕蹖蹖乇丕賲蹖亘禺卮賲讴賴丕夭賴賲賴噩丕賮丕蹖丿賴亘乇賳丿

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Trevor

1,472 reviews24.1k followers

September 24, 2008

Socrates has always been a hero of mine, when the daughters were very young I told them the story of his death and told them that he died asking questions and his death therefore meant their birthright was to be able to ask questions. Both of them still are just as likely to begin a sentence with, 鈥淒ad, I鈥檝e got a question鈥� and both know they will, if they begin a sentence in that way, be guaranteed my undivided attention. Now, after reading this, I think I need to say that Plato鈥檚 Socrates is my hero.

To be honest, I think I enjoyed the introductions to these four works more than the works themselves. I kept wondering if Plato鈥檚 works had not survived what would we have made of Socrates. It would seem very unlikely that we would still consider him the central figure at the birth of Western Idealist philosophy if all that was left of him were the descriptions in Xenophon鈥檚 rather patchy works.

The thing that would have to be removed from his resume 鈥� or CV if you prefer 鈥� would be his Socratic Method, or the dialectical process of truth through questioning. I was very surprised by how little this was used by Xenophon in any of these works. In fact, Socrates is much too 鈥榩reachy鈥� in Xenophon. This was something that was mentioned in one of the introductions, but I really would have noticed this myself.

Think about the things you really know about Socrates. One must be that he asks lots of questions 鈥� now, I know, even in Plato those questions are pointed, directed and intended to lead pretty much in one direction 鈥� but at least that is how he works. The point of the questioning is that Socrates believes that truth is about 鈥榬evealing鈥� 鈥� in the sense of showing what is already there to be found to show. To Plato鈥檚 Socrates one must essentially find information out for one鈥檚 self. His questions are designed to lead those being questioned towards the truth 鈥� towards a kind of uncovering.

Xenophon鈥檚 Socrates, particularly in the Memoirs (but elsewhere too), talks too much in homilies for my taste. He dispenses wisdom 鈥� and often that wisdom is a bit too much like Dr Phil.

The other thing you know about Socrates is that he was the guy who said, 鈥淎ll I know is that I know nothing.鈥� Which, of course, is the other explanation for all the questions. This really does not come across in any of the works here. Socrates is presented as a god among men 鈥� the sort of man people ought to hang around on the assumption that goodness is in some way contagious.

If Plato鈥檚 works are sublime, Xenophon鈥檚 are much more every day. This is even clear in the difference in the English translations given to the titles of the works written by the two authors. Plato writes the Socratic Dialogues, Xenophon the Conversations 鈥� Plato writes The Symposium, Xenophon The Dinner Party - Plato The Apology and Xenophon Socrates鈥� Defence. Even though the actual titles given by Plato and Xenophon themselves are the same word in Ancient Greek 鈥� the English translations of these titles says much about the substance of the works themselves. I mean, Plato鈥檚 works deserve to have higher sounding titles than Xenophons.

Stylistically too, Xenophon is no match 鈥� but this is really not saying much. Plato is one of the greatest writers of all time. It would be like comparing Pride and Prejudice to some hideous book written by some no hope, second-rater that tells the story of what happened next in the lives of Elizabeth and Fitzwilliam after their marriage. Yes, exactly 鈥� it is hard not to make that face when you think about it, isn鈥檛 it?

What did surprise me, though, was that many of Xenophon鈥檚 works seemed very much 鈥榩atched together鈥�. This was particularly true of the last of the works here 鈥� The Estate Manager. This was two works more or less stuck together and the seams do show 鈥� almost as much as if the shirt was worn inside out.

Plato鈥檚 treatment of women is infinitely better than Xenophon鈥檚. Hypatia, one of the greatest personages of history and one of my greatest heroes (and as good a reason to hate that particular class of Christians Palin represents as any other) only got to have an education because her father was a Neo-Platonist. Hard to imagine her getting that opportunity if her father had been a Neo-Xenophonian. All the same - Xenophon's treatment of women was much better than, say, Hegel's or so many other philosophers. At least the woman in The Estate Manager was able to learn something.

I have often wondered how much the Socrates in history was like the Socrates in the Dialogues 鈥� how much was he a creation of Plato. I guess we will never really know. I am glad that I read these works, because, if nothing else, they make Plato鈥檚 Socrates seem all the more remarkable.

I was also disappointed that Xenophon had Socrates repeatedly say that one should do good to one鈥檚 friends, but bad to one鈥檚 enemies. This is the opposite of what Plato tells us was a core idea of Socrates鈥� philosophy 鈥� once again I鈥檓 going to have to go with Plato.

Of all the works here, The Dinner Party was probably the best. It was quite delightful in places 鈥� particularly when Socrates was explaining why he was better looking than his host. That is the other thing it is important to know about my mate Socrates 鈥� he was quite ugly. He had 鈥榓 face like a well skelped arse鈥� as they say in Belfast.

It is amusing to think that there are essentially three writers extant who knew and wrote about Socrates and each has such a remarkably different opinion of him 鈥� everything from fool through to genius. I am going to have to read The Clouds now by Aristophanes 鈥� it can鈥檛 be helped and ought not to be delayed.

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鉂丑别罢谤耻别厂肠丑辞濒补谤

236 reviews187 followers

July 19, 2018

'I have no doubt that the future, just as the past has done, will attest that I never wronged or harmed anyone, but benefited those I conversed with by freely teaching them any good thing I could.鈥� (Apology)
__________
'So, since my becoming a good man is not entirely out of the question, do please tell me all about what you do, and then, in so far as I can understand what you say, I'll be able to try to follow suit, which is what I'll do, starting from tomorrow morning. For tomorrow is a good day for embarking on a life of virtue.' (Oeconomicus)

__________
This volume collects Xenophon's four Socratic Dialogues: Apology, Memorabilia, Symposium, and Oeconomicus.

Apology is a very short work detailing Socrates' thoughts about his upcoming trial.

Memorabilia is Xenophon's major Socratic work. Comprising four books, it could be simply described as short conversations with Socrates on a variety of topics, both public and private, and nicely displays Socrates' trademark reasoning.

Symposium shows both Socrates' and his follower's humorous side whilst they discuss love, and would nicely complement Plato's Dialogue of the same title.

Oeconomicus contains a discussion of one's Estate, and is a little too long and non-philosophical in my opinion. It can be skipped without much loss, and be left to completionists.

This penguin edition is highly recommended. It contains a good general introduction, as well as excellent introductions to the individual works containing some very useful reference points with Plato's dialogues, as well as very good notes.

With regards to comparisons with Plato, I'll leave this here from Mr. Waterfield's Introduction:

In short, to prefer Plato's portrait to Xenophon's is just to compare Xenophon unfavourably with Plato as both a writer and a thinker. But this is only to say that not everyone is a genius.

__________
' . . . I open and read from beginning to end the books in which the wise men of past times have written down and bequeathed to us their treasures; and when [I] see anything good, [I] take it for [myself]; and [I] regard our mutual friendship as great gain.鈥� (Memorabilia, 1.6)

If they rediscovered their ancestors' way of life and followed it as well as they did . . . (Memorabilia 2.5)
_____
'. . . while others acquire their shop-bought luxuries at a high price, I arrange far greater, mental luxuries at no cost at all . . .鈥� (Apology)

'For instance, when I want to have a good time, I don't buy luxuries in the market 鈥� it costs too much; I supply myself from my own mind.鈥� (Symposium 4)

'Most people . . . never turn to examine themselves. Don't shirk this responsibility, but make a greater effort to take yourself seriously.鈥� (Memorabilia 2.7)

'It's your turn, Niceratus: tell us what accomplishment you're proud of.'
Niceratus said, 'My father, because he was concerned to make me a good man, made me learn the whole works of Homer; and I could now repeat by heart the entire Iliad and Odyssey.鈥� (Symposium 3)

'You know, I presume, that within the poems of that greatest of sages, Homer, is information about practically every aspect of human affairs.鈥� (Symposium 4)

'. . . what ought we to smell of?'
'True goodness, of course,' said Socrates.
'And where can one get this lotion?'
'Not at a perfumery, certainly.鈥� (Symposium 2)

'Don't you realize that this creature which they call the bloom of youth is even more dangerous than spiders? . . . if one looks at it, even from quite a distance, it can inject a kind of poison that drives one crazy. No; I advise you, Xenophon, when you see an attractive person, to take to your heels as fast as you can; and I advise you, Critobulus, to go away for a year. That may give you just enough time to recover.' (Memorabilia 1.3)
_____
One of those present was Apollodorus, who was a great devotee of Socrates . . . He said, 鈥榖ut the most difficult thing for me to bear, Socrates, is that I see you being unjustly put to death.鈥� Socrates (as the story goes) stroked Apollodorus鈥� head and replied with a smile: 鈥榊ou鈥檙e a good friend, Apollodorus, but would you rather see me put to death justly or unjustly?鈥� (Defence)

When I consider how wise the man was, and how high-minded, I am bound to remember him; and when I remember him, I am bound to admire him. If anyone in his search for virtue has encountered a more helpful person than Socrates, then he deserves, in my opinion, to be called the most fortunate of all men. (Defence)
____________________
(Memorabilia 2.1)

鈥楾he same view of moral goodness is also set out by the sophist Prodicus in the story of Heracles, which is one of his most popular displays; it runs like this, as far as I remember. When Heracles was setting out from childhood toward manhood, at the age when the young become independent and show whether they are going to approach life by the path of goodness or by the path of wickedness, he went out to a quiet spot and sat down considering which way he should take. While he was sitting there, he thought he saw two women approach him. Both were tall, but one of them was handsome in appearance with a natural air of distinction, clean-limbed and modest in expression, and soberly dressed in a white robe, while the other was well fed to the point of fleshiness and softness, made up to have a complexion too red and white to be real, and with a carriage more upright than was natural, with a brazen expression, and robed in a way that revealed as much as possible of her charms. She kept on examining herself, and watching to see if anyone was looking at her, and glancing at her own shadow. When they got nearer Heracles, the first of the two continued to advance in the same way, but the other, wishing to forestall her, ran up to him and said:

鈥淗eracles, I see that you cannot make up your mind which way of life to adopt. If you take me as your friend, I will lead you by the easiest and pleasantest road; you shall not miss the taste of any pleasure, and you shall live out your life without any experience of hardship. In the first place, you will not be concerned with wars or responsibilities; you shall constantly consider what food or drink you can find to suit your taste, and what sight or sound or scent or touch might please you, and which lover鈥檚 society will gratify you most, and how you can sleep most comfortably, and how you can achieve all these objects with the least trouble. And if there is ever any suspicion of a shortage of any of these benefits, you need not fear that I shall involve you in any physical or mental effort or distress in procuring them; you shall enjoy the fruits of other people鈥檚 labours, and you shall refrain from nothing from which you can derive any advantage, because I authorise my followers to benefit themselves from all quarters.鈥�

鈥榃hen Heracles heard this, he asked, 鈥淲hat is your name, lady?鈥� She replied, 鈥淢y friends call me Happiness, but people who don鈥檛 like me nickname me Vice.鈥�

鈥楳eanwhile, the other woman came forward and said, 鈥淚 too have come to meet you, Heracles, because I know your parents and I have carefully observed your natural qualities in the course of your education, and this knowledge makes me hope that, if you will only take the path that leads to me, you may become a very effective performer of fine and noble deeds, and I may win much greater honour still, and brighter glory for the blessings I bestow. I will not delude you with promises of future pleasure; I shall give you a true account of the facts, exactly as the gods have ordained them. Nothing that is really good and admirable is granted bu the gods to men without some effort and application. If you want the gods to be gracious to you, you must worship the gods; if you wish to be loved by your friends, you must be kind to your friends; if you desire to be honoured by a State, you must help that State; if you expect to be admired for your fine qualities by the whole of Greece, you must try to benefit Greece; if you want your land to produce abundant crops, you must look after your land; if you expect to make money from your livestock, you must take care of your livestock; if you have an impulse to extend your influence by war, and want to be able to free your friends and subdue your enemies, you must both learn the actual arts of war from those who understand them, and practise the proper way of applying them; and if you want to be physically efficient, you must train your body to be subject to your reason, and develop it with hard work and sweat.鈥�

鈥楬ere Vice, as Prodicus tells, broke in. 鈥淒o you realise, Heracles,鈥� she said, 鈥渨hat a long and difficult road to enjoyment this woman is describing to you? I will put you on a short and easy road to happiness.鈥�

鈥淚mpudent creature!鈥� said Virtue. 鈥淲hat good have you to offer, or what do you know of pleasure, you who refuse to do anything with a view to either? You don鈥檛 even wait for the desire for what is pleasant: you stuff yourself with everything before you want it, eating before you are hungry and drinking before you are thirsty. To make eating enjoyable you invent refinements of cookery, and to make drinking enjoyable, you provide yourself with expensive wines and rush about searching for ice in summer. To make going to sleep pleasant, you provide yourself not only with soft blankets, but also with bases for your beds, for it is not work but boredom that makes you want to go to bed. You force the gratification of your sexual impulses before they ask for it, employing all kinds of devices and trading men as women. That is the sort of training that you give your friends 鈥� exciting their passions by night, and putting them to sleep for the best part of the day. Although you are immortal, you have been turned out by the gods, and you are despised by decent men. You are denied the hearing of the sweetest of all sounds 鈥� praise of yourself 鈥� and you are denied the seeing of the sweetest of all sights, for you have never contemplated any act of yours that was admirable. Who would trust your word? Who would assist you if you needed someone? What sane person would have the face to join your devotees? When they are young, they are feeble in body, and when they get older, they are foolish in mind; they are maintained in their youth in effortless comfort, but pass their old age in laborious squalor, disgraced by their past actions and burdened by their present ones, because in their youth they have run through all that was pleasant, and laid up for their old age what is hard to bear.

鈥樷€淚 associate both with gods and with good men, and no fine action, human or divine, is done independently of me. I am held in the highest honour both among gods and men who are akin to me. I am a welcome fellow worker to the craftsman, a faithful guardian to the householder, a kindly protector to the servant, an efficient helper in the tasks of peace, a staunch ally in the operations of war, and the best partner in friendship. My friends can enjoy food and drink with pleasure and without effort, because they abstain until they feel a desire for them. Their sleep is sweeter than the sleep of the easy-living, and they neither are vexed when they have to give it up, nor make it an excuse for neglecting their duty. The young enjoy the praise of their elders, and the older people are happy in the respect of the young. They recall their past achievements with pleasure, and rejoice in their present successes, because through me they are dear to the gods, loved by their friends, and honoured by their country. And when their appointed end comes, they do not lie forgotten in obscurity, but flourish celebrated in memory for all time.

鈥楾hat is roughly how Prodicus describes the education of Heracles by Virtue, except that he actually dressed up the sentiments in language still more splendid than I have used now. At any rate, Aristippus, you had better think this over and try to take some account of the factors that will affect the life that lies in front of you.鈥�

philosophy primary-greek-literature

Uro拧膼urkovi膰

836 reviews215 followers

August 26, 2021

Ksenofontov Sokrat je, za razliku od Platonovog, konkretniji, jasniji, pragmati膷niji, okrenutiji ovozemaljskim pitanjima i, usudi膰u se 膷ak re膰i 鈥� 啪ivotniji. Istina, nezgodno je ovakvo pore膽enje i nipo拧to ne treba da se 膷ita u vrednosnom klju膷u, ve膰 u kontekstu mogu膰nosti razlike 鈥� jer Sokrat je, izabrav拧i da ni retka u svoje ime ne napi拧e, odabrao da bude, evo ve膰 dve i po hiljade godina, odjek drugih, a time i glas dinamike zajednice. To nije u膷inio iz skromnosti, nego upravo iz temeljnog uverenja o potrebi saglasja teorije i prakse. Sokrat je bio, pre i posle svega, delatnik, 膷ije su re膷i doslovno dosledno menjale svet. Zapisivanje bi predstavljalo (privremeno) udaljavanje od neposredne dru拧tvenosti, a 膷ak bi otvorilo prostor razlici izme膽u re膷i i dela. Sokrat je ostao nem da bi bio govorljiviji od svega onoga 拧to je mogao da napi拧e, jer bez zajednice u vrlini, nema ni njega. A vrlina je tu prikladnost koja se ispunjava samosavla膽ivanjem, do kojeg se dolazi 膷uvenim gn艒thi seauton (spoznaj sebe!). Ali ja je (kao 拧to Rembo ka啪e) neko drugi i tek kroz odgovor sredine mo啪e da 啪ivi ne samo na拧e dru拧tveno bi膰e, nego i na拧a misao (o sebi i svetu). Sokrat je pre svega, kao majeuti膷ar, bi膰e dijaloga 鈥� a dijalog predstavlja susret dva logosa, koji iz me膽usobnog kontakta daju ne拧to 拧to je nesvodljivo na po膷etne razgovorne pozicije. Dijalog je i ukr拧taj, preplet, sukob, samoostvarenje misli i tra啪enje mere. A mera je najve膰a vrlina 鈥� mera kao samoprevazila啪enje i samosavla膽ivanje (21), jer 膷ime se to 膷ovek razlikuje od najnerazumnije 啪ivotinje ako svakog momenta ne ide za onim 拧to je najbolje ve膰 za onim 拧to je najprijatnije (118)? Mera je taj prekopotrebni 啪ivotni k么d 鈥� susret 鈥� i sve, shodno tome, da bi bilo vredno mora da bude i PODESNO (103). A 拧ta to zna膷i? Sokrat ne razdvaja kategorije lepog od dobrog 鈥� jer, kako tvrdi 鈥� i zlatni 拧tit je ru啪an ako je r膽avo (nefunkcionalno) ura膽en (79). Svaki pojedinac, stoga, ima i du啪nost prema sopstvenoj meri, odnosno, prema svojim potencijalima koji tek kroz obrazovanje mo啪e da bude dostignuto. Ksenofantov Sokrat tako mnogo pa啪nje posve膰uje nezi tela, koje predstavlja na拧 nu啪an uslov slobode, a slobodan je samo onaj koji nije neuzdr啪ljiv (116). Osim pretnji lenjosti i prejedanja, Sokrat izdvaja i opasnosti 鈥瀘d ljubavnog u啪ivanja 拧to ga pru啪aju lepi momci鈥� jer nije lako biti razborit ko se takvih doti膷e (19). U tom svetlu, sasvim je fascinantan taj homoerotski sloj dela, neuporediv sa sada拧njim vremenom. Tu je, me膽utim, jo拧 sijaset interesantnih, krajnje 啪ivotnih pitanja i, mogu膰e, poznatih situacija, pre svega vezane za porodi膷ne odnose.

Velika je ovo pri膷a, ali ja samo da spomenem dve trivije, 拧to poti膷u odavde:
1) SIKOFANTI su bili oni pakosni pojedinci koji su optu啪ivali nekoga ko je iz Atine da je, uprkos zabrani, iznosio smokve na prodaju. (134) Gadni ljudi. Ne budite sikofanti.
2) Cena za jednog roba u Gr膷koj iznosila je 2 mine (= 200 drahmi). Sokrat razgovara o tome imaju li prijatelji cenu.

I tre膰a 鈥� bonus trivija o triviji 鈥� trivija zna膷i 鈥瀟roputje鈥�, 拧to mo啪e predstavljati u izvesnom smislu i raskrsnicu. Nipo拧to trivijalno, zar ne?

Erick

261 reviews236 followers

April 1, 2017

I read this book fairly quickly but I think I absorbed it well enough to say that it was an excellent defense and portrayal of Socrates.
I really feel no need to make Xenophon's portrayal of Socrates compete with Plato's. The impressions I get of him in both accounts is not all that incompatible. Xenophon mentions early on that Socrates was not given to discourses on metaphysics, and I must conclude that this is most likely correct. The times when Plato portrays Socrates this way must be seen as Plato using Socrates as his own mouthpiece for subjects and questions that interested him personally. Plato was most likely influenced by philosophers like Pythagoras and Anaxagoras for this element of his thought. Xenophon mentions more than once that Socrates thought that those kinds of speculations were vain and frivolous; even going so far as to make Anaxagoras a byword for that kind of frivolity. Xenophon's portrayal of Socrates as being more concerned with ethics is almost certainly more correct historically.
Another interesting divergence is that Xenophon's Socrates is unabashedly against the kind of eros that would have any kind of pederastic overtones; Plato made this somewhat ambiguous. Other than in Plato's erotic motifs and in his metaphysics, the two versions of Socrates are not that disparate. You still have a man who was dedicated to investigating truth and given to meticulous interrogations of interlocutors. The elenchus of the Socratic method is still unquestionably there, but maybe not quite as overwrought as in the Platonic dialogues. Book 4 Chapter 2 is a worthy comparison to the Socrates of the early Platonic dialogues. Here you have Socrates seeking to convince Euthydemus that he really knows nothing -and of course- Socrates is successful. Many of the cast of characters, such as Euthydemus, make appearances in both accounts of Socrates. Xenophon even mentions Plato once. It seems though that Xenophon's portrayal is purposely polemical in regards to Plato. Even though I am very much a Plato enthusiast, I am not that bothered by Xenophon's tendency for polemics.
Xenophon's portrayal of Socrates gives us a much more rounded picture of the kind of man Socrates was. Somewhere between his and Plato's accounts we really do get a feel for who the man was. That makes this work an important historical document and thus very essential reading.

ancient-hellenistic-philosophy philosophy

david

480 reviews18 followers

November 24, 2017

This is a quick read. The Man asks a lot of questions. A teacher perhaps but not in the casual definition of the word. He, like others, paid the ultimate price, for his personal quest to be virtuous. This is one component of human nature, false and creative verdicts, repeated without interruption, before him and after him. And like all who exist within the realm of a mind, whether it was shared, written, adjudicated or kept privately, these thoughts are buried with their body when all is finished. And the earth continues to spin.

A final note; is whether he, like a Shakespeare, ever even existed?

ancient-greeks

Massimo Pigliucci

Author听82 books1,122 followers

November 3, 2022

One of the most interesting and lively texts about Socrates, a must read for those interested in ancient practical philosophy. While Plato's Socrates has a philosophical agenda that is often hard to distinguish from Plato's own, Xenophon's version of the sage of Athens is more credible and very refreshing. We see Socrates giving advice to wannabe politicians as well as courtesans, and even to his own son, Lamprocles! Moreover, we hear a very credible explanation from Xenophon for why Socrates did not defend himself effectively at his famous trial.

Ben Loory

Author听4 books729 followers

January 17, 2014

interesting as an alternate (non-platonic) take on socrates. but mostly it just makes you realize how brilliant plato was. still though, there are a lot of really good lines.

Upon this, Socrates asked him whether he had ever been at Delphi, and Euthydemus answered that he had been there twice.

"Did you not take notice," said Socrates, "that somewhere on the front of the temple there is this inscription, 'Know thyself'?"

"I remember," answered he, "I have read it there."

"It is not enough," replied Socrates, "to have read it."

Cassandra Kay Silva

716 reviews321 followers

August 6, 2012

Ok so Xenophon is no Plato we all know that. I would have still loved this collection anyway though just for the dinner party alone! Who knew Socrates was both the best looking man of the bunch and also apparently the best potential pimp? Yes that is it folks, lets not be fooled, Socrates is the greatest potential pimp of all time. One star lost for the estate manager (although I was surprised to find out how much I too know about agriculture! Perhaps I would also make a good farmer!)

books-of-antiquity philosophy

Czarny Pies

2,755 reviews1 follower

November 23, 2019

In this work one encounters a qualitatively different Socrates from the one found in Plato's dialogues. As Nietzsche observed Plato's Socrates strikes the reader as a fictional creation of Plato rather than a real person. Xenophon's Socrates however has every appearance of being a real person.

Plato's Socrates constantly performs virtuoso acts of dialectical reasoning. Xenophon's Socrates in contrast relies primarily on personally living a life of virtue in order to teach his students how to live the good life. Late in this book Xenophon offers a demonstration of Socratic dialectics which he regards as a secondary tool. In Xenophon's view, Socrates believed that one became a better person by practicing virtue not by logical passe passe.

greek-and-roman philosophy

Bernie Gourley

Author听1 book110 followers

April 20, 2015

Xenophon gives us an alternative to Plato鈥檚 accounts of the lessons of Socrates. As you probably know if you are reading this, Socrates left nothing behind by way of written teachings. All we know of the great philosopher鈥檚 teachings come from the accounts of his students. Xenophon鈥檚 version (Memorabilia of Socrates) is stylistically different from Plato鈥檚 dialogues(e.g. Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, and Phaedo), though Socrates鈥� wisdom and method (questioning) remain consistent.

I enjoyed Plato鈥檚 dialogues on the last days of Socrates more than Xenophon鈥檚 Memorabilia. This owes to Plato鈥檚 narrative approach, which tells us the story of Socrates鈥� trial, conviction, and execution. Philosophy is more palatable embedded in a story. However, all of these works (Xenophon鈥檚 and Plato鈥檚) are short, readable translations, and so it is worth reading all of them to get a broader access to the thoughts of Socrates.

As with Apology, Xenophon conveys Socrates thoughts on piety and corruption of the youth (these were the charges raised against Socrates that resulted in his hemlock sentence.) Socrates maintained that he was pious, but he did think it a weakness to trouble the gods with questions that men should be able to solve for themselves. His emphasis on self-reliance and fortitude is part of why we so respect Socrates. One sees the imprint of Socrates on the school of Stoicism that would come later. In Memorabilia, Socrates openly mocks those men who cannot bear adversity as well as their slaves. (Yes, Socrates wasn鈥檛 so infallibly wise as to see the folly of slavery. I no more advocate paleomania [irrational exuberance for old thinkers / ideas] than I do neomania [irrational exuberance for new ideas.] Still, people live in the context of their times, and if one expects a person to be ahead of their time in all aspects, one will be disappointed.)

Socrates discusses governance and politics frequently in this volume. To a large extent, this is by way of trying to convince men that he believed would be good for governance to participate, and convincing those who he believed wouldn鈥檛 be effective leaders (e.g. Euthydemus) not to participate. Toward the end of book (part IV) he talks about the various forms of government (e.g. Monarchy, Aristocracy, Plutocracy, Tyranny, and Democracy.) These ideas no doubt informed Plato鈥檚 illumination of eight forms of government in The Republic.

What I appreciate most about Socrates was his groundedness and appreciation of the importance of the body. One can read a lot of philosophy without hearing mention of the body (beyond the thought that it might be an illusion created by the program that runs our brain-in-a-vat system.) One gets the idea that proponents of this discipline largely think of the body as a cart that drags around their great, big, lovely brains. Not so with Socrates. In fact, he rebukes philosophers for not taking care of themselves. He mentions the importance of nutrition, exercise, and sleep [this is where he鈥檚 ahead of his time.] Also, Socrates recognizes the damage done by having too great an attachment to comfort. (Here one sees an interest point of overlap with Eastern philosophies that derive from yoga--with its niyama of tapas [austerity and self-discipline.] By the way, that isn鈥檛 the only correlation between the Eastern and Western mindset we see in Socrates. e.g. At one point, a wealthy man complains about the poor behavior of his servant, to which Socrates asks upon whom this condition should reflect poorly鈥攖he master not the servant. Confucius made a similar statement to this one.)

I think this classic is well worth reading. It鈥檚 short, readable, and offers a great deal of food for thought. If you don鈥檛 have time for multiple accounts of Socrates鈥� teachings, you might be kept more enthralled by the Platonic dialogues, but surely you can make time for Socrates.

Darwin8u

1,774 reviews8,946 followers

December 4, 2012

I love Xenophon. He is a rare breed: philosopher, soldier, historian and mercenary. I imagine him as a 4th century BC combination of Teddy Roosevelt and William T. Vollmann. Memorabilia is a nice piece to read along with Plato's dialogues. While Plato's remembrances of Socrates are more philosophic and cerebral, Xenophon presents a slightly different and more down to earth picture of the great ethical philosopher.

2012

Rez

152 reviews3 followers

February 23, 2023

诏賮鬲芦毓噩亘丿丕乇賲丕夭讴爻蹖讴賴趩賵亘丕賳蹖诏賱賴贁诏丕賵丕賳乇丕亘賴毓賴丿賴诏乇賮鬲賴丕爻鬲賵亘丕丕蹖賳讴賴诏丕賵賴丕乇賵夭亘賴乇賵夭賳丕鬲賵丕賳鈥屫� 賲蹖鈥屫促堎嗀� 賵毓丿賴鈥屫簇з� 讴賲鬲乇貙亘丕夭丌賲丕丿賴賳蹖爻鬲丕毓鬲乇丕賮讴賳丿讴賴趩賵倬丕賳蹖賳丕丿丕賳丕爻鬲. 亘丿鬲乇丕夭丕賵讴爻蹖丕爻鬲讴賴夭賲丕賲噩丕賲毓賴鈥屫й� 乇丕亘賴丿爻鬲丿丕乇丿賵賲乇丿賲丕賳乇丕乇賵夭亘賴乇賵夭亘丿鬲乇賵鬲毓丿丕丿卮丕賳乇丕讴賲鬲乇賲蹖鈥屭┵嗀� 賵亘丕丕蹖賳賴賲賴卮乇賲賳丿丕乇丿賵賳賲蹖鈥屬矩佰屫必┵� 夭賲丕賲丿丕乇蹖賳丕丿丕賳賵賮丕爻丿丕爻鬲. 3.5

Rosa Ram么a

1,570 reviews80 followers

November 24, 2014

"Existem,na esp茅cie humana,seres inferiores aos outros,tal como o animal em rela莽茫o ao Homem.A guerra 茅 um meio leg铆timo de adquirir escravos.Uma fam铆lia completa comp玫e-se de homens livre e escravos."

Takeo Choe

22 reviews3 followers

June 20, 2023

pretty good book. long review is to come later in the summer. I enjoyed this book. It was one of the harder books ive read recently, one of the first philosophy books ive ever read, and because of that i am pretty new to the whole looking at a page for 30 minutes trying to make something out of it. Never the less it was a really interesting read, i got to learn a lot about socrates and his peers alike as well as a lot of historical information about how people used to live back in the day.
good book. 3.7/5

ancient-greek great physical-books

Anmol

281 reviews56 followers

March 7, 2024

Xenophon's Socrates is too much of a goody two-shoes to have anything interesting to say. Nor does he possess any of the philosophical depth or the literary flair of Plato's Socrates. I'd go so far as to say that if it were not for Plato's dialogues, Socrates would barely be remembered today, much less considered an important thinker in the history of philosophy, if we only had Xenophon and Aristophanes' representations of him. The only value I could see in this text was historical, and in some cool passages on sense-restraint, but that gets old very soon if you're out of your young male 'stoic' phase - that reminds me, Xenophon's Socrates can be seen as an important bridge in connecting Socrates to the later stoics, since he's all about restraining yourself, not being a slave to the body, enjoying poverty, yada yada - I'm not saying that that's bad advice, I'm just saying that it's no fun to read, especially when you're already doing most of that (whether voluntarily or not...)

Kaberoi Rua

220 reviews27 followers

March 1, 2017

Xenophon鈥檚 Conversations of Socrates is a great addition to the home library of any lover of Socratic philosophy. Xenophon鈥檚 work can easily be described as four books within a book. His four topics include Socrates鈥� Defense, Memoirs of Socrates, The Dinner-Party, and Estate Manager. Xenophon is no Plato but most believe that the image we receive from Plato is the only portrait of Socrates. It then would only make logical sense to have Xenophon鈥檚 image as well. A must read and great asset along-side Plato鈥檚 portrait of the greatest philosopher to walk the earth.

Cat Noe

430 reviews21 followers

October 5, 2013

I seem to be in the minority here, but in many ways I prefer Xenophon to Plato. This book was a breath of fresh air. His simple pragmatism makes him sound like someone I'd want to be friends with, invite to dinner or the ilk. Apparently he's not for everyone, but he has my vote.

non-fiction worth-revisiting

Jim

2,334 reviews768 followers

October 2, 2010

Socrates is by no means the exclusive property of Plato: Xenophon also wrote well, if not quite so brilliantly as Plato, but reflecting his own more common-sensical and conventional approach to life.

This collection consists of four works:

(1) Socrates' Defence, probably the weakest work, shows only that Xenophon could never rise to the heights that Plato did with Apology and Phaedo. It is still of interest because, like Socrates, Xenophon was clearly of the oligarchical party and thought the philosopher got a raw deal.

(2) Memoirs of Socrates is a series of short dialogues, in more or less random order, showing a Socrates that is more an apostle of common sense than a deep philosopher.

(3) The star of the collection is Xenophon's The Dinner-Party, his answer to Plato's Symposium, and a good deal more fun to read.

(4) Finally, there is The Estate-Manager, in which Xenophon shows how kingship, military leadership, and agriculture are closely allied.

As Robin Waterfield, the co-translator, writes in his excellent introduction, Xenophon deserves to be read more, if only to show that Socrates caught the imagination of the Ancient Greeks in more ways than just one.

ancient_greece philosophy

Sergiy

84 reviews4 followers

May 5, 2015

Boethius should be ashamed for writing that load of crap 'consoaltion of philosophy' 800 years after Socrates, and adding nothing new or original to the discussion. Both guys died, but I feel like Boethius only found consolation in philosophy after he was already sentenced to death. As you will see from reading 'The Memorable thoughts of Socrates' the eponymous philosopher lived a life of virtue and justice, so dying according to the laws of his country suited him just fine. (there were some other reasons he was ok with his death sentence, but you should read the book to find out)

What made this book really easy to read and accessible was Xenophon's spartan writing style, which translates very well into modern language. I did not feel bored or confused at any point, Socrates always seems to get to the point rather quickly, and makes his points well.

I recommend this book to all.

Also I really enjoyed reading this in the context of all the myths and legends I have been reading recently. Socrates and Xenophon lived in an ancient society and this book is a window on our distant past.

David Sarkies

1,911 reviews363 followers

August 16, 2022

In Defense of Morality
12 August 2022 鈥� Oxford

Originally this was going to be my Canterbury review, however it turned out to be much longer than I expected, and I had left the collection of Lovecraft short stories back at the hotel, so I didn鈥檛 get around to actually reading, and then writing, anything in Canterbury. Oh well, maybe another time, if I manage to get back there. However, it turned out to be a pretty good Oxford Book, even though the editor and translator were actually from Cambridge. Still, being a university town, reading some Ancient Greek philosophy seemed to be somewhat appropriate.

One thing that stood out, that sort of made me wonder what the editors were talking about, was that there was no mention of the purpose of the book in the introduction. This was a little odd considering that Xenophon clearly spells this out at the beginning and the end. Sure, there is a lot of Socratic philosophy in these pages (which shouldn鈥檛 surprise anybody considering that it is called 鈥�
The Memoirs of Socrates鈥�), but Xenophon opens by stating that this work鈥檚 purpose is to prove that Socrates was not guilty of the crimes for which he was executed, but rather that it was his enemies that were looking for an excuse to do him in.

In the end, this work isn鈥檛 going to convince anybody who is dead set against Socrates, in much the same way that arguing with somebody who is dead set in their ways isn鈥檛 going to change their minds (I was going to say 鈥榓rguing with an idiot鈥�, but some people tend to have good reasons for being set in their ways, though there are others that, well, you just want to walk away from because you are doing more damage to your sanity than anything else). Actually, Xenophon points this out in one of his anecdotes, namely that we shouldn鈥檛 argue with people to change our opponent鈥檚 mind but instead change the mind on those who are listening to the debate. In fact, I believe this is the whole point of the debate, not to convince the otherside, but to convince the audience.

There are some interesting things that come out of this text, and some of them no doubt will make people rather uncomfortable. I鈥檓 not going to mention them here (though these issues also arise in The Symposium) except to say that, well, these are issues that we assume go without saying, yet in this text, and in the Platonic texts, there is a debate as to whether they are right or not. It makes you realise how much we don鈥檛 know about Ancient Athens. Like, homosexuality was a big thing, though it was vastly different than what we have today. There certainly were lovers (Achilles and Patroclus is a clear example), but they didn鈥檛 marry and have children (or adopt children as the case may be). It was also an incredibly patriarchal society, so women hardly got a mention.

We see a lot of Xenophon鈥檚 military background coming to play here. In fact this is one of the first topics (the other being sex). The suggestion, which we see in Plato as well, is the concern about how completely incompetent people can be elected to high positions. Actually, I don鈥檛 think there is a real solution because we can鈥檛 take away the right to vote from people who don鈥檛 have an education, namely because even if one has an education doesn鈥檛 mean that they will wisely cast their vote, nor will an uneducated person unwisely cast their vote. In fact, there is an awful lot of educated people that will be charmed by a demagogue, as well as quite a few educated people that don鈥檛 care about voting, and have no interest in finding out about the candidates, or even turning up at the voting booth.

Yet they do have a point 鈥� only highly skilled carpenters become master carpenters, and you need some pretty good qualifications to get there. However, to become a politician all you need to do is convince people to vote for you. In fact, to become Prime Minister all you need to do is convince the party room to vote for you. The problem is that completely incompetent people end up getting elected. Here in Australia we had to put up with some advertising executive (that wasn鈥檛 particularly good in any case) make announcements for the entire time he was in office, but do absolutely noting. After his tenure came to an end, he chucked a hissy fit and blamed pretty much everybody for voting him out because he was a half-decent person and the population didn鈥檛 appreciate how good they had it under him. In fact, he now sits on the backbench with a foul look on his face (though I find it interesting that despite being a pentacostal Christian, that he isn鈥檛 asking any questions as to why God might have deserted him).

Still, we can鈥檛 forget that in Ancient Athens the military leaders were also elected, which I have to admit seems like that is only going to lead to endless amounts of trouble. I was going to suggest imagining DT being elected into such a position until I realised that he was actually commander in chief. Mind you, if the generals end up screwing up, they also ended up being put on trial, and if found guilty of incompetence, then the penalty was generally death. I guess with that hanging over your head would probably provide a disincentive for demagogues from taking over the army, but honestly, when have laws and penalties ever stopped people from being dodgy?

However, I would have to say that this work differs significantly from that of Plato, one thing being that Xenophon was a general whereas Plato was a teacher. Still, while people might not consider Xenophon to be anywhere in the league of Plato, we do need to remember that the nature of this work is twofold 鈥� first of all it is a defence of Socrates and of his teaching, and secondly it is a means of preserving what Socrates taught down through the millennium. It is clear that Xenophon held Socrates in high regard, though he might not have been associating with him for as long as Plato was. Still, it is an interesting work, and does give us a different view on much of his teachings.

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Mary Catelli

Author听54 books198 followers

March 25, 2016

Plato was not the only one who wrote about Socrates. And this gives a rather different view. . . .

Not in Socratic method. That's one thing that is unquestionably constant. But while Xenophon's Socrates does talk about virtue, he talks differently than Plato's. Also, he deals at a much more practical level. For instance, in one discussion, he talks a man into providing for his crowds of female relatives by putting them to work making textiles. Indeed, the last of the documents is nothing except talking about how to manage an estate.

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Ben

2,721 reviews218 followers

June 24, 2022

This was an okay read.

I wasn鈥檛 too impressed with it.

I didn鈥檛 find it the best philosophy in my opinion.

3.4/5

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Felipe Oquendo

180 reviews23 followers

February 28, 2023

Muito melhor do que eu imaginava. Transmite uma imagem de S贸crates que 茅 congruente com a plat么nica, mas, sem a idealiza莽茫o, acaba soando mais humana.

lido-em-2023

Alex Obrigewitsch

487 reviews136 followers

July 16, 2017

I must begin by stating that I agree with what Kierkegaard writes in his Concept of Irony - that the quaint Xenophon fails to understand Socrates; that he delivers a surface portrait even of his thought, but fails to cut into the negative heart of this thought, wherein lies the import of Socrates as a figure (for ancient Athens and for all of history). Plato does much better at addressing this thoughtful import over the splay of his dialogues (though he does of course at times (mis)use the figure of Socrates for his own ends; but who is to say that Xenophon, with his pragmatic interests in estates and morality, did not do the same in turn.

Xenophon displays only the positive side of what we know of Socrates' thought - his ideas on recollection and self-discipline, for example. But his Socrates spends much time espousing a positive doctrine, which is in direct opposition to the Socrates that Plato portrays ( the Socrates of his Apology especially). Socrates' wisdom was that he knew nothing - and this incited his incessant questioning; his search which is his very wisdom. Socrates' negativity opened up different avenues for interpreting or thinking the simply positive or posited.

As Waterfield notes in his introduction, Socrates was a revolutionary figure; "he trained people to be individuals" (36). He did so through his subversive questioning, which negated or worked against the law, the state, and thus the whole or the general, in the name of freedom and individuality, or difference. This Socrates, that is, the thinker as questioner, fails to appear in Xenophon's texts. Thus, with Kierkegaard, do I find that Xenophon only grasped the positive aspect of Socrates, and failed to really ascertain the true greatness of the man, or rather, of his thought. Xenophon's Socrates is no revolutionary; he, and the texts in which he is portrayed, are rather dull.

Richel

44 reviews5 followers

March 19, 2012

Obviously, the book is not a literary piece, but it fed my curiousity for the Philosopher who taught and influenced the equally great minds who were: Plato and Aristotle (who in turn tutored Alexander the Great).

Known as one of the founders of Western Philosophy, Socrates was well-remembered for the Socratic method which consisted in a series of questions to find the truth; lawyers use this. And who wouldn't know the saying: I only know that I know nothing, by which he acknowledges his limitations. However, it only showed that he was a notch higher than the rest.

Because he did not write philosophical texts, Xenophon wrote the book presenting the thoughts of his great teacher.

In general, Socrates' teachings were morally, intellectually, and politically at odds with his fellow Athenians. For his attempts to improve Athenian's sense of justice, he was condemned as a heretic.

Sentenced to die, for corrupting the minds of the youth and not believing in the Gods of the Republic, he did not attempt to escape, even if he had the chance to do so, his reason being, it was the right time for him to die; if he lived, he won't be able to take the rigors of old age. Also, that if he died on that occasion, he was positively certain that his memory will be honored than those who condemned him. True enough, until today, his philosophy, is relevant.

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Jose Villalobos

19 reviews1 follower

October 9, 2015

Socrates is basically the father of modern thinking. I still need to read Plato's version of Socrates, but started with Xenophon not knowing much of the difference between both.
The book contains introductory chapters to each book. Sometimes I feel that they extended a little too much but all in all, these chapters gave a clear view of life in Greece in those times, Socrates' train of thought and so on.
You must read the book not focusing only on the main topic of a conversation, but on the analysis that Socrates does on any possible topic. As an example, don't take "The State Manager" as a book on agriculture, but on discipline and education.
The main problem I faced is that this is a little dense at times. Also, at some points I have to admit I ended up hating Mr. S, because the portarit of him sometimes is of a nosey old man that liked to judge people. Nothing farther than the truth, of course but gets to happen.
Keep in mind that society was very different, specially with the passages on the place of women and men. Some people can cringe to it.
All in all, I am thankful for having read this book, as it allowed me to develop a more critical and ordered thinking. It gets to touch the way you analyse things and that you deal with others in a day to day.
It is highly recommended but know you will take a while to read and completely enjoy it.

Jacob Hurley

Author听1 book42 followers

February 10, 2021

Not a very good companion to Plato's works, or to Greek history at large. Xenophon, perhaps history's first midwit, seemed to have been impressed from his association with Socrates but generally unimproved; his presentation of Socrates does not seem fundamentally different from the logic of the sophists, and his understanding of the disputes against Socrates seems merely to have been that Socrates advocated a more pragmatic, Spartan virtue as opposed to compliance to Athenian democracy (against whom Xenophon was also pretty bad at arguing). The similarities to Plato's works are relatively superficial, and because both Xenophon and Plato appear to have had strong personal and political parapraxes guiding their presentation of Socrates this book only opens more questions about Socrates than it answers. A couple of amusing anecdotes are scattered throughout, like Crito's friend who goes around defending people on the streets in exchange for a place to live and the farmer's wife in Oikonomokos, but they're sewn pretty widely across dialogues full of practical advice shorn of their practicality on account of their author's apparent eagerness but inability to recreate the Socratic 'dunk'.

greek-literature philosophy

Armin

157 reviews

September 4, 2024

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