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ثيستيس
ثيستيس واحدة من أروع وأعمق المسرحيات التى كتبها سينيكا، والتى من خلالها حاول أن يبين مدى قوة وسيطرة السلطة على العقل البشرى، تلك السلطة التى قد تدفع البشر ببهرجتها إلى إرتكاب أفظع وأبشع الجرائم حتى تجاه أقرب الأشخاص، كما أن لها قدرة كبيرة على أن تعمى بصيرة أى شخص عما يحاك له من مكائد، العمل يصور أفظع آفات النفس البشرية وهى شهوة الانتقام، كما يصور نسلا ملعونا تدفعه اللعنة دفعا إلى ارتكاب سلوكيات شريرة فوق خيال البشر
100 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 65
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562 people want to read
About the author
Seneca
2,329books3,652followersLucius Annaeus Seneca (often known simply as Seneca or Seneca the Younger); ca. 4 BC � 65 AD) was a Roman Stoic philosopher, statesman, and dramatist of the Silver Age of Latin literature. He was tutor and later advisor to emperor Nero, who later forced him to commit suicide for alleged complicity in the Pisonian conspiracy to have him assassinated.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 102 reviews
August 10, 2022
La obra "Tiestes" es una de mis tragedias favoritas. En esta ocasión Séneca aborda de una manera cruel y muy fuerte la venganza de Atreo sobre su hermano Tiestes.
En verdad que esta familia pasó por cosas realmente terribles. Tántalo fue condenado en el Hades a padecer hambre y sed eternamente teniendo un lago hasta su cuello y frutas que nunca podía alcanzar, esto por haber invitado a los dioses un banquete donde el plato principal era su propio hijo Pélope, pero Pélope fue resucitado por los dioses y a su vez tuvo como hijos a Atreo y Tiestes. Este último logró arrebatarle el reino de Micenas a su hermano tras haber seducido a su mujer y obtener de ésta un símbolo de poder real.
La obra narra el momento desde que Tiestes es llamado por su hermano para una reconciliación e invitación a compartir el trono, lo acompañan sus hijos Tántalo y Plístenes. Los diálogos son bien ilustrativos y tensos, así como las peores acciones son descritas de una manera demasiado cruda, cosa que a muchos no gusta pero considero que eso le da el verdadero drama a esta leyenda que ya de por sí es bastante perturbadora.
En verdad que esta familia pasó por cosas realmente terribles. Tántalo fue condenado en el Hades a padecer hambre y sed eternamente teniendo un lago hasta su cuello y frutas que nunca podía alcanzar, esto por haber invitado a los dioses un banquete donde el plato principal era su propio hijo Pélope, pero Pélope fue resucitado por los dioses y a su vez tuvo como hijos a Atreo y Tiestes. Este último logró arrebatarle el reino de Micenas a su hermano tras haber seducido a su mujer y obtener de ésta un símbolo de poder real.
La obra narra el momento desde que Tiestes es llamado por su hermano para una reconciliación e invitación a compartir el trono, lo acompañan sus hijos Tántalo y Plístenes. Los diálogos son bien ilustrativos y tensos, así como las peores acciones son descritas de una manera demasiado cruda, cosa que a muchos no gusta pero considero que eso le da el verdadero drama a esta leyenda que ya de por sí es bastante perturbadora.
February 5, 2024
Tantalus was sent to Hell for serving his own son with a balsamic dressing to the Gods. Several generations later, his descendent Atreus is highly aggreived that his banished brother Thyestes may have shagged his wife, so intends to avenge himself against his sibling by one upping his ancestor and making Thyestes unknowingly eat his own children.
Seneca is a gorehound. He is an unhinged sadist, a lover of misery, torture and violence. He's good but, Jes-us, does he like to hurt his characters. His version of had gratuitous violence; the gross and detailed descriptions of sacrificed children in was nauseous, but something about Thyestes really got to me. You can sense the writers joy in the darkness here, a manic grin as quill is scribbled on parchment, an anticipation of the delicious moment of reveal as sin and taboo are described in vivid, ecstatic detail, and I suspect his toga needed laundering afterwards.
The tragedy has some morals, that being don't trust people you've wronged, or don't sleep with your brother's wife unless you want to be served your youngest as a starter, but it's utterly secondary to the human violence. Sophocles' was a slow build up to recognising your sins, but when I finally get round to reading Seneca's version of that play I'm expecting less a developement of dramatic irony, and more a ten minute monologue on how Oedipus gouges out his eyes and how far the blood splatter flew.
I didn't dislike Thyestes, it's a conte cruel of the most stomach worthy kind and compelling enough, but if I hadn't already known Seneca had to deal with Nero's Christian candle parties, I wouldn't be surprised to hear it now.
Seneca is a gorehound. He is an unhinged sadist, a lover of misery, torture and violence. He's good but, Jes-us, does he like to hurt his characters. His version of had gratuitous violence; the gross and detailed descriptions of sacrificed children in was nauseous, but something about Thyestes really got to me. You can sense the writers joy in the darkness here, a manic grin as quill is scribbled on parchment, an anticipation of the delicious moment of reveal as sin and taboo are described in vivid, ecstatic detail, and I suspect his toga needed laundering afterwards.
The tragedy has some morals, that being don't trust people you've wronged, or don't sleep with your brother's wife unless you want to be served your youngest as a starter, but it's utterly secondary to the human violence. Sophocles' was a slow build up to recognising your sins, but when I finally get round to reading Seneca's version of that play I'm expecting less a developement of dramatic irony, and more a ten minute monologue on how Oedipus gouges out his eyes and how far the blood splatter flew.
I didn't dislike Thyestes, it's a conte cruel of the most stomach worthy kind and compelling enough, but if I hadn't already known Seneca had to deal with Nero's Christian candle parties, I wouldn't be surprised to hear it now.
January 27, 2023
Atreus, powerful but miserable and consumed by rage, is willing to do ghastly things to keep his kingdom. His guard tells him, it's better to live a peaceful life in anonymity, fear nothing, and die unknown.
"Death lies heavily on the man, who dies unknown by himself, but too much known by the rest of mankind!"
I think this advice applies just as well to today's reality TV stars.
His brother, Thyestes, who has betrayed him by sleeping with his wife and stealing the kingdom's golden ram, then escaping to the woods, realizes that actually he likes living in poverty in the middle of nowhere.
"To be able to bear life contentedly without a kingdom, represents to my mind a kingdom vast indeed!"
But it's too late. He can't escape his brother's vengeance. This isn't the kind of kingdom where people chill and eat something other than their own children.
"Death lies heavily on the man, who dies unknown by himself, but too much known by the rest of mankind!"
I think this advice applies just as well to today's reality TV stars.
His brother, Thyestes, who has betrayed him by sleeping with his wife and stealing the kingdom's golden ram, then escaping to the woods, realizes that actually he likes living in poverty in the middle of nowhere.
"To be able to bear life contentedly without a kingdom, represents to my mind a kingdom vast indeed!"
But it's too late. He can't escape his brother's vengeance. This isn't the kind of kingdom where people chill and eat something other than their own children.
July 12, 2018
In the first century of the Roman Empire, Seneca was to write a series of tragedies that, while covering much of the ground of the Greek tragedians, was ever so much darker. Could it be because he was exiled by Claudius for committing adultery (probably a false accusation by Messalina), only to be recalled as tutor and later chief advisor to the Emperor Nero.
The play starts with a Greek Fury cursing the whole line that was to follow Tantalus. Included were Pelops, Atreus and his brother Thyestes, Agamemnon, and Aegisthus.
The play starts with a Greek Fury cursing the whole line that was to follow Tantalus. Included were Pelops, Atreus and his brother Thyestes, Agamemnon, and Aegisthus.
July 16, 2022
المقدمة تحرق الأحداث كمثل معظم كتب المركز القومي للترجمة، لكن أيضا تقريبا كل صفحات المسرحية مزودة بهوامش توضح خلفية قصة إغريقية، أو اسم إله ذُكر في الحوار، إلخ، وهي تحرق الأحداث أيضا، في الحقيقة المسرحية قصيرة تمتلك حدث وحيد يتيم. أظن الهوامش كانت أطول من نص المسرحية نفسه ويمكن أمتع منه🤷♂�. وأريا ستارك ستكون فخورة بأتريوس كثيرا.
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November 25, 2024Ins: Greek tragedies Outs: Shakespeare
October 11, 2023
2.5 �
-
not my favourite. and. a bit too vulgar
-
not my favourite. and. a bit too vulgar
February 10, 2018
This book may have been a tad difficult to read (note: read on an empty stomach because you WILL want to vomit profusely). However, I know Seneca's work is traditionally an attempt to work out his philosophy, and I think he's a successful craftsman with interesting scenes.
October 15, 2015
Had to read this alongside Shakespeare's Titis Andronicus this week. Hands down no comparison! Sorry Seneca!
December 7, 2021
Not me doing the optional reading voor theatre history zodat ik meer boeken op mijn reading challenge heb staan😌😳
Would not recommend dit toneelstuk tho (tenzij je kinderen opeten een leuk thema vindt natuurlijk)
Would not recommend dit toneelstuk tho (tenzij je kinderen opeten een leuk thema vindt natuurlijk)
January 17, 2024
Coro: "nei tuoi mali c'è un solo bene, Tieste, che tu ignori i tuoi mali."
October 3, 2022
"إنه قدري أنْ أعاني من العقاب،
وليس أنْ أكون أنا العقاب."
"الذين يُجبرهم الخوف
على المدح، يحولهم الخوف لأعداء.
ولكن من يسعى لتحقيق المجد عبر التأييد الحقيقي،
سوف يتمنى أنْ يحظى بالمديح من قلب صادق وليس من مجرد صوت."
"إنّ الأمل فيما هو غير مشروع سريع التصديق."
"والآن دعوني أنعم بالسكينة الحلوة؛
وأمكث في مكان منعزل،
وأستمتع بوقت فراغ هادئ،
ولا أكون معروفًا بين أقراني من المواطنين
ولينساب نهر عمري في هدوء.
وهكذا عندما تمر أيامي في هدوء،
سأموت عجوزًا كفرد بسيط من العامة.
ولكن بالنسبة للملك فربما يكون الموت ثقيلًا،
فالذي يكون معروفًا للجميع،
يموت مجهولًا لنفسه."
"فالمُلك الذي لا حد له هو أنْ تستطيع أنْ تكون سعيدًا بلا مملكة."
وليس أنْ أكون أنا العقاب."
"الذين يُجبرهم الخوف
على المدح، يحولهم الخوف لأعداء.
ولكن من يسعى لتحقيق المجد عبر التأييد الحقيقي،
سوف يتمنى أنْ يحظى بالمديح من قلب صادق وليس من مجرد صوت."
"إنّ الأمل فيما هو غير مشروع سريع التصديق."
"والآن دعوني أنعم بالسكينة الحلوة؛
وأمكث في مكان منعزل،
وأستمتع بوقت فراغ هادئ،
ولا أكون معروفًا بين أقراني من المواطنين
ولينساب نهر عمري في هدوء.
وهكذا عندما تمر أيامي في هدوء،
سأموت عجوزًا كفرد بسيط من العامة.
ولكن بالنسبة للملك فربما يكون الموت ثقيلًا،
فالذي يكون معروفًا للجميع،
يموت مجهولًا لنفسه."
"فالمُلك الذي لا حد له هو أنْ تستطيع أنْ تكون سعيدًا بلا مملكة."
May 26, 2011
As befits a tragedy, "Thyestes" isn't a very hopeful story. I've read the play in translation before but the Latin really drives home Seneca's masterfully bloody language. Most scholarship denigrates Senecan tragedy and while I wouldn't say it supersedes or even equals some of the best Greek tragedies, "Thyestes" for one is definitely worth reading.
Never having read a Roman tragedy in the original language, I found Tarrant's edition really helpful for its supplementary material and assistance through some of the trickier choral odes.
Never having read a Roman tragedy in the original language, I found Tarrant's edition really helpful for its supplementary material and assistance through some of the trickier choral odes.
May 29, 2013
Lo bueno, si breve, dos veces bueno. Tragedia oscurísima sobre la historia de Tiestes, ese que se comió a sus propios hijos y el sol horrorizado por tal suceso no se atrevió a salir ese día.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
December 26, 2018
"أي صرخات أطلقها أنا البائس
وأي شكوى؟ أي كلمات تكفيني؟" - ثيستيس
وأي شكوى؟ أي كلمات تكفيني؟" - ثيستيس
June 12, 2023
A particularly lurid tragedy.
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December 22, 2021gejmotrouns spavaš li mirno???
June 7, 2022
3.5 rounded down, a lot of long monologues but a terrifying, Gothic story
September 30, 2023
Shockingly dark and I loved every word of it. I could easily imagine finding this play on Hannibal Lecter’s shelf.
November 23, 2024
love seneca
this was rly gross, I loved the messenger scene
this was rly gross, I loved the messenger scene
Read
November 23, 2024this was gory and insane and terrifying. seneca does not mess around
February 13, 2025
dang artreus does not come to play
February 20, 2025
this is my favorite play we’ve read in class so far - so so so so amazing I can’t even begin to describe in this short review so I’ll just leave this with: that was such an incredible read.
April 15, 2025
cannibalism is never the answer!
November 16, 2019
Sêneca escreveu, além de um conjunto relativamente grande de obras filosóficas, algumas peças de teatro � 9.
Aqui, temos a expressão da teoria política de Sêneca. Conhecido por ser um dos homens mais ricos (ou talvez o mais) de Roma, ao longo de parte considerável da sua vida adulta, ele esteve bem próximo ao topo do Poder.
Muito é desconhecido da sua real ligação com Nero do qual foi preceptor. Isso é especialmente verdade em relação aos anos finais do imperador romano, quando a contagem de cadáveres aumenta.
Parece que Sêneca fechou os olhos quando Nero matou o próprio irmão � Britânico � mas teria tentado se afastar depois que o imperador matou a própria mãe � Agripina. De qualquer modo, as ideias políticas de Sêneca, apresentadas em “Sobre a Clemência�, vão ter um veículo em suas peças. Há, ainda, hoje, não se sabe se elas eram representadas ou se eram apenas para leitura. De qualquer modo, serviram como meio de expressão de suas ideias.
Em Tiestes, está representado o longo conflito da família de Tântalo e que continuou com a luta entre seus netos Atreu e Tiestes. Atreu é o tirano total, preocupado não apenas em se vingar do irmão, mas, principalmente em ter uma vingança inesquecível pela crueldade e vileza. Consegue e a maldição que assombra a família continuará pelas gerações seguintes.
A tradução, evidentemente, tem um viés acadêmico bastante claro, inclusive em relação à métrica. No entanto, acho que em alguns momentos alguns termos mais usuais poderiam ter sido utilizados para que o leitor pudesse ter uma experiência mais interessante.
Uma escolha editorial me incomodou. As notas de rodapé (e são muitas!) foram postas após o texto da peça, o que, prejudica a leitura. Imagino que não seria fácil, porque é uma edição bilingue, mas poderiam ter colocado as palavras ao longo do texto principal.
De qualquer modo, parabéns à editora e aos tradutores, que disponibilizaram essa obra de Sêneca para nós brasileiros.
Aqui, temos a expressão da teoria política de Sêneca. Conhecido por ser um dos homens mais ricos (ou talvez o mais) de Roma, ao longo de parte considerável da sua vida adulta, ele esteve bem próximo ao topo do Poder.
Muito é desconhecido da sua real ligação com Nero do qual foi preceptor. Isso é especialmente verdade em relação aos anos finais do imperador romano, quando a contagem de cadáveres aumenta.
Parece que Sêneca fechou os olhos quando Nero matou o próprio irmão � Britânico � mas teria tentado se afastar depois que o imperador matou a própria mãe � Agripina. De qualquer modo, as ideias políticas de Sêneca, apresentadas em “Sobre a Clemência�, vão ter um veículo em suas peças. Há, ainda, hoje, não se sabe se elas eram representadas ou se eram apenas para leitura. De qualquer modo, serviram como meio de expressão de suas ideias.
Em Tiestes, está representado o longo conflito da família de Tântalo e que continuou com a luta entre seus netos Atreu e Tiestes. Atreu é o tirano total, preocupado não apenas em se vingar do irmão, mas, principalmente em ter uma vingança inesquecível pela crueldade e vileza. Consegue e a maldição que assombra a família continuará pelas gerações seguintes.
A tradução, evidentemente, tem um viés acadêmico bastante claro, inclusive em relação à métrica. No entanto, acho que em alguns momentos alguns termos mais usuais poderiam ter sido utilizados para que o leitor pudesse ter uma experiência mais interessante.
Uma escolha editorial me incomodou. As notas de rodapé (e são muitas!) foram postas após o texto da peça, o que, prejudica a leitura. Imagino que não seria fácil, porque é uma edição bilingue, mas poderiam ter colocado as palavras ao longo do texto principal.
De qualquer modo, parabéns à editora e aos tradutores, que disponibilizaram essa obra de Sêneca para nós brasileiros.
September 8, 2008
Caryl Churchill's streamline translation of Seneca's "Thysestes." Thought Atreus has regained his thrown, he's still seething over his ouster by his brother Thyestes. He invites his brother back to the kingdom to ostensibly bury the hatchet but his true intentions are altogether more dark and murderous.
It was hard to take the sheer anger and hatred of Atreus.
SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT
He kills his three young nephews and serves them in a stew to their father (his brother Thyestes) then displays their heads to their unsuspecting father. It's a nasty trick their own grandfather Tantalus used against the gods (I don't know the reason for this original horror as I haven't read that tale - would like to know, though). The horrific violence and heartlessness recurs throughout the generations and no-one learns. It's just heart-breaking and I don't know that I could sit through a production of this. I don't mind a lot of violence and anger, I don't even mind when people don't learn a whole lot from events because that's what happens in real life, and it's we as the audience who learn from their block-headedness. But the killing of the innocent children and feeding them to their father, a man who honestly thought he'd come to be reconciled to his brother, is perhaps too much even for me.
The plain-spokeness of Churchill's translation may be true to the original, but it leaves the tale so dry and bare, I just don't care for it.
It was hard to take the sheer anger and hatred of Atreus.
SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT
SPOILER ALERT
He kills his three young nephews and serves them in a stew to their father (his brother Thyestes) then displays their heads to their unsuspecting father. It's a nasty trick their own grandfather Tantalus used against the gods (I don't know the reason for this original horror as I haven't read that tale - would like to know, though). The horrific violence and heartlessness recurs throughout the generations and no-one learns. It's just heart-breaking and I don't know that I could sit through a production of this. I don't mind a lot of violence and anger, I don't even mind when people don't learn a whole lot from events because that's what happens in real life, and it's we as the audience who learn from their block-headedness. But the killing of the innocent children and feeding them to their father, a man who honestly thought he'd come to be reconciled to his brother, is perhaps too much even for me.
The plain-spokeness of Churchill's translation may be true to the original, but it leaves the tale so dry and bare, I just don't care for it.
July 24, 2015
I'm usually down for classics but Seneca just doesn't do it for me. While I know that a translation is always going to make things less poetic, in this case it doesn't appear like much was lost. His descriptions and analogies and metaphors are turgid, his dialogue overwrought, and overall it feels flat. Just read Virgil instead.
April 18, 2008
The background for the "House of Atreus" and the curse that follows.
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