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Saints
When ten-year-old Dinah Kirkham saw her father leave their Manchester home in the middle of the night, she asked when he would be back. "Soon," he replied. But he never came back. On that night in 1829, John Kirkham laid the foundation of his daughter's certainty that the only person Dinah could ever really trust was herself.
From that day forward, Dinah worked to support her family, remaining devoted to their welfare even in the face of despair and grinding poverty. Then one day she heard a new message, a new purpose ignited in her heart, and new life opened up before her.
From that day forward, Dinah worked to support her family, remaining devoted to their welfare even in the face of despair and grinding poverty. Then one day she heard a new message, a new purpose ignited in her heart, and new life opened up before her.
608 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1984
27 people are currently reading
1,169 people want to read
About the author
Orson Scott Card
859Ìýbooks20.3kÌýfollowersOrson Scott Card is an American writer known best for his science fiction works. He is (as of 2023) the only person to have won a Hugo Award and a Nebula Award in consecutive years, winning both awards for his novel Ender's Game (1985) and its sequel Speaker for the Dead (1986). A feature film adaptation of Ender's Game, which Card co-produced, was released in 2013. Card also wrote the Locus Fantasy Award-winning series The Tales of Alvin Maker (1987â€�2003).
Card's fiction often features characters with exceptional gifts who make difficult choices with high stakes. Card has also written political, religious, and social commentary in his columns and other writing; his opposition to homosexuality has provoked public criticism.
Card, who is a great-great-grandson of Brigham Young, was born in Richland, Washington, and grew up in Utah and California. While he was a student at Brigham Young University (BYU), his plays were performed on stage. He served in Brazil as a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and headed a community theater for two summers. Card had 27 short stories published between 1978 and 1979, and he won the John W. Campbell Award for best new writer in 1978. He earned a master's degree in English from the University of Utah in 1981 and wrote novels in science fiction, fantasy, non-fiction, and historical fiction genres starting in 1979. Card continued to write prolifically, and he has published over 50 novels and 45 short stories.
Card teaches English at Southern Virginia University; he has written two books on creative writing and serves as a judge in the Writers of the Future contest. He has taught many successful writers at his "literary boot camps". He remains a practicing member of the LDS Church and Mormon fiction writers Stephenie Meyer, Brandon Sanderson, and Dave Wolverton have cited his works as a major influence.
Card's fiction often features characters with exceptional gifts who make difficult choices with high stakes. Card has also written political, religious, and social commentary in his columns and other writing; his opposition to homosexuality has provoked public criticism.
Card, who is a great-great-grandson of Brigham Young, was born in Richland, Washington, and grew up in Utah and California. While he was a student at Brigham Young University (BYU), his plays were performed on stage. He served in Brazil as a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and headed a community theater for two summers. Card had 27 short stories published between 1978 and 1979, and he won the John W. Campbell Award for best new writer in 1978. He earned a master's degree in English from the University of Utah in 1981 and wrote novels in science fiction, fantasy, non-fiction, and historical fiction genres starting in 1979. Card continued to write prolifically, and he has published over 50 novels and 45 short stories.
Card teaches English at Southern Virginia University; he has written two books on creative writing and serves as a judge in the Writers of the Future contest. He has taught many successful writers at his "literary boot camps". He remains a practicing member of the LDS Church and Mormon fiction writers Stephenie Meyer, Brandon Sanderson, and Dave Wolverton have cited his works as a major influence.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 328 reviews
February 10, 2008
I read this book when it was called "A Woman of Destiny." I've read that it was pushed then as a romance novel, but its scope is far greater than that. I was raised a Mormon and have been very interested in Mormon history, theology, and sociology. I can understand how many LDS/CJC members would feel threatened by Card's portrayals, but I personally found them very humanizing and revealing of the everyday reality of life in a new religious community. A warning: One of my friends read this at my recommendation during our internship and was disappointed when she finally realized that it was actually fiction (the chapter introductions can lead you to think that the author is actually tracing his family's history). However, this is, to my mind, very good historical fiction that is all the more convincing by having been written by a great storyteller who is also a Mormon and who also is not afraid to deal with moral issues (including religion and, in this case, polygamy) at a deeply personal level and yet within the sweep of history. I highly recommend this book to anyone in or out of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
June 4, 2008
"Saints" is an interesting novel by sci-fi author Orson Scott Card. But this book isn't sci-fi at all, it is pure historical fiction.
The book is set in the Nauvoo era of LDS Church history. We meet (fictional) Dinah Kirkham in industrial England, where a series of tragic events leads her to Mormonism and emigration to Nauvoo. There, she encounters figures from Church history, and becomes involved with the religious developments of that time. Namely, polygamy.
"Saints" is vividly written, and certainly the genre invites comparison to "The Work and the Glory". The most vivid contrast is between the experience of reading the two; "The Work and the Glory" feels like you are watching a theatrical production dramatizing Church history, with starched gingham dresses and bearded villains. "Saints" on the other hand, gives the feel of actually living and breathing in that era.
As with any historical fiction, the weakness of the book is the liberties it takes with some of the non-fictional characters. We don't know everything Joseph Smith or Brigham Young may have said or did in private (after all, if we knew, it wouldn't be private), and OSC involves these characters in situations and conversations that humanizes them to a degree that may be uncomfortable for some who prefer a more idealistic view of these men. Hopefully, this book can serve to stir a desire to learn more about the history of Nauvoo and Joseph Smith's teachings, and not be used as the last word on any of the subjects it discusses.
This is especially true for a certain scenario involving Eliza R. Snow, Emma Smith, and a flight of stairs. You will definitely want to read up on the history of that story before accepting it's validity.
And a final warning: This book is much more frank in its depiction of "The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage" than anything you'll find at Deseret Book. Disturbingly so, for some. There is nothing offensive, but much that will certainly raise some eyebrows. Not recommended for younger teenagers, or people who are sensitive to the practical realities of Nauvoo-era polygamy.
(If you do read this book and want to read up on the history behind it, I would recommend Glen M. Leonard "Nauvoo: A Place of Peace, a People of Promise" and the Nauvoo chapters of "Mormon Enigma".)
The book is set in the Nauvoo era of LDS Church history. We meet (fictional) Dinah Kirkham in industrial England, where a series of tragic events leads her to Mormonism and emigration to Nauvoo. There, she encounters figures from Church history, and becomes involved with the religious developments of that time. Namely, polygamy.
"Saints" is vividly written, and certainly the genre invites comparison to "The Work and the Glory". The most vivid contrast is between the experience of reading the two; "The Work and the Glory" feels like you are watching a theatrical production dramatizing Church history, with starched gingham dresses and bearded villains. "Saints" on the other hand, gives the feel of actually living and breathing in that era.
As with any historical fiction, the weakness of the book is the liberties it takes with some of the non-fictional characters. We don't know everything Joseph Smith or Brigham Young may have said or did in private (after all, if we knew, it wouldn't be private), and OSC involves these characters in situations and conversations that humanizes them to a degree that may be uncomfortable for some who prefer a more idealistic view of these men. Hopefully, this book can serve to stir a desire to learn more about the history of Nauvoo and Joseph Smith's teachings, and not be used as the last word on any of the subjects it discusses.
This is especially true for a certain scenario involving Eliza R. Snow, Emma Smith, and a flight of stairs. You will definitely want to read up on the history of that story before accepting it's validity.
And a final warning: This book is much more frank in its depiction of "The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage" than anything you'll find at Deseret Book. Disturbingly so, for some. There is nothing offensive, but much that will certainly raise some eyebrows. Not recommended for younger teenagers, or people who are sensitive to the practical realities of Nauvoo-era polygamy.
(If you do read this book and want to read up on the history behind it, I would recommend Glen M. Leonard "Nauvoo: A Place of Peace, a People of Promise" and the Nauvoo chapters of "Mormon Enigma".)
May 6, 2010
In one of 's essays I read several years ago, he mentioned that he got a lot of flak for this book. People didn't like how he wrote about Joseph Smith--his human-ness as well as his Prophet-ness. They didn't like seeing Emma as anything other than an "elect lady" or a apostate villain. Who would presume to speculate on how the Prophet spoke to his wife in bed? Orson Scott Card, that's who. Naturally, I had to read this book.
I found it at in the Chicago library system and raced through it much faster than I thought I would and found myself thinking about it and wishing I could pick it up more often than was really possible.
The story follows Dinah Kirkham, a young woman from Manchester, England, and her family as they move down and then up the social standings and eventually meet Heber C. Kimball (over 150 pages into the book). At this point, Dinah has been married for several years and has two children with Matthew Handy. This marriage was quickly arranged after an incident with the factory foreman. The Mormon missionaries are the only thing that brings some measure of joy into her life, and the gospel even makes her situation with Matthew better for a time. After several months, the Apostles tell the Saints that as many as can should move to Nauvoo to build the Kingdom of God.
Dinah's mother and one brother, Charlie, have joined the Church. Her husband and her other brother, Robert, have not. Dinah's father abandoned them when the children were young. Robert is a prosperous engineer, and Matthew works for him. Together they conspire to keep Dinah and her children in England with a charge of mental incompetency, and they serve her with that charge as she is on the boat for the United States before it leaves. She makes the most painful decision she could and leaves her children and goes to Nauvoo because of the bright and burning testimony she received months ago.
The rest of the book deals with her relationship with Joseph Smith, Vilate Kimball, and many other prominent figures in Church history. It discusses Joseph Smith's plural wives and how the doctrine of celestial marriage nearly tore the Church apart and was really the ultimate cause of the Prophet's martyrdom.
I can see why so many people did not like the book. It presents an unvarnished look at what those early days must have been like, especially for those plural wives. Through it all, however, is Dinah's unshakable testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that his revelations were true, and that whatever God required was right. This book does not tear down faith; it builds and strengthens.
Note: As you might guess from a book about polygamy, there is some sex. Never graphic, never inappropriate, never unrealistic. Having looked over some of the other reviews on this site, I noticed that many readers thought it "trashy" or some other such silly term. Sex is not inherently trashy; as members of this Church, we believe that the sexual relationship between husband and wife is one of the most sacred and special and beautiful of all our earthly relationships. It's not a sin to talk about it or describe certain aspects of it tastefully and with that idea of sacredness in mind. Certainly, there are encounters that are NOT sacred in this book, and they are treated as something significantly less so. But there are many good and proper encounters that are treated with realism and respect for their sacred character. Don't let a little reasonable description of husbands and wives turn you off from an excellent and uplifting book such as this.
I found it at in the Chicago library system and raced through it much faster than I thought I would and found myself thinking about it and wishing I could pick it up more often than was really possible.
The story follows Dinah Kirkham, a young woman from Manchester, England, and her family as they move down and then up the social standings and eventually meet Heber C. Kimball (over 150 pages into the book). At this point, Dinah has been married for several years and has two children with Matthew Handy. This marriage was quickly arranged after an incident with the factory foreman. The Mormon missionaries are the only thing that brings some measure of joy into her life, and the gospel even makes her situation with Matthew better for a time. After several months, the Apostles tell the Saints that as many as can should move to Nauvoo to build the Kingdom of God.
Dinah's mother and one brother, Charlie, have joined the Church. Her husband and her other brother, Robert, have not. Dinah's father abandoned them when the children were young. Robert is a prosperous engineer, and Matthew works for him. Together they conspire to keep Dinah and her children in England with a charge of mental incompetency, and they serve her with that charge as she is on the boat for the United States before it leaves. She makes the most painful decision she could and leaves her children and goes to Nauvoo because of the bright and burning testimony she received months ago.
The rest of the book deals with her relationship with Joseph Smith, Vilate Kimball, and many other prominent figures in Church history. It discusses Joseph Smith's plural wives and how the doctrine of celestial marriage nearly tore the Church apart and was really the ultimate cause of the Prophet's martyrdom.
I can see why so many people did not like the book. It presents an unvarnished look at what those early days must have been like, especially for those plural wives. Through it all, however, is Dinah's unshakable testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that his revelations were true, and that whatever God required was right. This book does not tear down faith; it builds and strengthens.
Note: As you might guess from a book about polygamy, there is some sex. Never graphic, never inappropriate, never unrealistic. Having looked over some of the other reviews on this site, I noticed that many readers thought it "trashy" or some other such silly term. Sex is not inherently trashy; as members of this Church, we believe that the sexual relationship between husband and wife is one of the most sacred and special and beautiful of all our earthly relationships. It's not a sin to talk about it or describe certain aspects of it tastefully and with that idea of sacredness in mind. Certainly, there are encounters that are NOT sacred in this book, and they are treated as something significantly less so. But there are many good and proper encounters that are treated with realism and respect for their sacred character. Don't let a little reasonable description of husbands and wives turn you off from an excellent and uplifting book such as this.
October 12, 2014
I hate this frustrating book. I will go on a long rant about just why I hate it too. I am beginning to discover OSC is not a good writer. I loved Seventh Son when I first read it, which is a re-telling of the Joseph Smith story. He did a great job with that book. What happened?
The problem is the motivations of the characters just are not realistic. Would people really convert to a religion after one night of talking to a missionary from it? Will you be willing to die for it and traumatize your children for life by leaving them? That just doesn't seem believable for me. It's contrived. It's like he's pushing the characters into doing stuff that is out of character or makes no sense. There's better choices the characters could be making, but he forces them into the choice that makes the least amount of sense because the PLOT says so.
For example, it made no sense for Dinah to marry Matthew when she had some other choices BESIDES marrying him. Charles would have helped her, Robert too, but she CHOOSES to marry Matthew and have kids with him. All through the book OSC tells you that Dinah is a strong character, but to me she seems bland and irritating. Her sacrifice of leaving her kids for Mormonism doesn't make her seem brave and noble to me. She could have convinced Matthew to become a Mormon with her if OSC hadn't turned him evil. No, the whole point is for her to go to the US and become one of Joseph Smith's plural wives. She could have waited for the kids to grow up and THEN run off to America. She could have sucked it up and endured to avoid traumatizing her kids for life. I would have respected her more. But no, she just leaves them. This just makes me think she didn't care about them in the first place. You've only been in this religion for FIVE SECONDS! Already you're ready to give up your kids for it? MAKES NO DANG SENSE!
In this book OSC makes you hate characters you're supposed to like and like characters you're supposed to hate. Robert seems to be the only sensible one except when he sold his brother to a chimney sweeper he didn't know from Adam. He's the only one who doesn't jump with both feet into Mormonism. He tries to keep Dinah from just up and taking her kids from their father.
Another thing is, I wonder if he wrote this book before or after Ender's Game. It has the same dynamic of the older brother who is supposed to be a jerk, the sweet younger brother and the sister in the middle.
This book is just not enjoyable. It's a chore to read, full of eye rolling on my part and frustrated sighs. It's so irritating it aggravates my IBS. If the characters aren't bland, they are self righteous. Some of them are hypocritical to the point of making me shout at the book. I read this book for research, but after this, no more OSC. Just no more. I do not need that kind of stress, I give UP.
Oh, and one more thing. Emma Smith. Why did he make her out to be a bad guy? If you were her, wouldn't you feel the same sort of desperation she felt? Your husband has this new polygamy doctrine. It directly lead to jerks like that scum that's now in jail for marrying underaged girls. How is she supposed to feel? OSC made it seem like we should hate her, but I felt bad for her. Joseph Smith married 33 wives, for crying out loud! (Some of which were already married at the time.) It's weird for a guy who rails on gay marriage to write an apologia for polygamy. Polygamy causes WAY more misery than gay marriage. You're talking 10 wives, 50 kids? I hate how Dinah kept trying to convince people that it will be sooooooooooo wonderful to share your husband. WTF?!
One more thing. Damn and hell are in the bible. There's no reason to get bent out of shape about the words DAMN AND HELL! Especially if you daughter was attacked and beat up. HAVE SOME FRIGGING PRIORITIES HERE! It's the same thing that made Folk of the Fringe so annoying. THEY ARE WORDS! GET OVER THEM!
The problem is the motivations of the characters just are not realistic. Would people really convert to a religion after one night of talking to a missionary from it? Will you be willing to die for it and traumatize your children for life by leaving them? That just doesn't seem believable for me. It's contrived. It's like he's pushing the characters into doing stuff that is out of character or makes no sense. There's better choices the characters could be making, but he forces them into the choice that makes the least amount of sense because the PLOT says so.
For example, it made no sense for Dinah to marry Matthew when she had some other choices BESIDES marrying him. Charles would have helped her, Robert too, but she CHOOSES to marry Matthew and have kids with him. All through the book OSC tells you that Dinah is a strong character, but to me she seems bland and irritating. Her sacrifice of leaving her kids for Mormonism doesn't make her seem brave and noble to me. She could have convinced Matthew to become a Mormon with her if OSC hadn't turned him evil. No, the whole point is for her to go to the US and become one of Joseph Smith's plural wives. She could have waited for the kids to grow up and THEN run off to America. She could have sucked it up and endured to avoid traumatizing her kids for life. I would have respected her more. But no, she just leaves them. This just makes me think she didn't care about them in the first place. You've only been in this religion for FIVE SECONDS! Already you're ready to give up your kids for it? MAKES NO DANG SENSE!
In this book OSC makes you hate characters you're supposed to like and like characters you're supposed to hate. Robert seems to be the only sensible one except when he sold his brother to a chimney sweeper he didn't know from Adam. He's the only one who doesn't jump with both feet into Mormonism. He tries to keep Dinah from just up and taking her kids from their father.
Another thing is, I wonder if he wrote this book before or after Ender's Game. It has the same dynamic of the older brother who is supposed to be a jerk, the sweet younger brother and the sister in the middle.
This book is just not enjoyable. It's a chore to read, full of eye rolling on my part and frustrated sighs. It's so irritating it aggravates my IBS. If the characters aren't bland, they are self righteous. Some of them are hypocritical to the point of making me shout at the book. I read this book for research, but after this, no more OSC. Just no more. I do not need that kind of stress, I give UP.
Oh, and one more thing. Emma Smith. Why did he make her out to be a bad guy? If you were her, wouldn't you feel the same sort of desperation she felt? Your husband has this new polygamy doctrine. It directly lead to jerks like that scum that's now in jail for marrying underaged girls. How is she supposed to feel? OSC made it seem like we should hate her, but I felt bad for her. Joseph Smith married 33 wives, for crying out loud! (Some of which were already married at the time.) It's weird for a guy who rails on gay marriage to write an apologia for polygamy. Polygamy causes WAY more misery than gay marriage. You're talking 10 wives, 50 kids? I hate how Dinah kept trying to convince people that it will be sooooooooooo wonderful to share your husband. WTF?!
One more thing. Damn and hell are in the bible. There's no reason to get bent out of shape about the words DAMN AND HELL! Especially if you daughter was attacked and beat up. HAVE SOME FRIGGING PRIORITIES HERE! It's the same thing that made Folk of the Fringe so annoying. THEY ARE WORDS! GET OVER THEM!
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
November 5, 2011
The fact that I was raised in an LDS family probably has something to do with my liking for this book, although I am not a religious person anymore. However, Saints is more than just "Mormon fiction" or even "religious fiction." It's really good historical fiction, and if you're a fan of the genre you owe it to yourself to read this book.
It was written early in Card's career, before he began (in my opinion) phoning it in. Saints comes from the same inspired, energetic, ultra-creative Orson Scott Card who gave us Wyrms, Hart's Hope, and the Alvin Maker series, not to mention Ender's Game and his exceptional early-career short fiction.
Like his other works from the same era, Saints is astonishingly vivid, in terms of both prose and atmosphere. It paints a gritty, dark scene of Industrial England, with all its societal injustices; and set atop this canvas is the tragic portrait of a family of good people slowly being torn apart. The subtle darkness and deep emotion are pure classic Card, as is the delicacy of the writing. Before the phone-it-in phase, Card was the best of the best at character development, particularly through dialog; and the interactions between the Kirkham family as they strive for their own identities and desires make for a priceless study in character.
The latter portion of the book takes place in America, once some of the Kirkhams have left England to join up with the "Saints" -- the other members of the fledgling Mormon Church. As a no-longer-Mormon, I found it just a tad amusing that a novel written by a staunch Mormon took such liberties in portraying the characters of important Church founders, such as Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. They were not always portrayed in the most favorable light -- which is only a testament to how good Card's writing was during this phase of his career. It would have been easy for this author to make these characters virtually infallible, but Card was better back then at creating real characters. The fact that he chose to portray Smith, Young, and others as men with real, often serious personality flaws speaks to the quality of the reading experience and this novel's deserved place among the best historical novels.
What keeps this one from being a full-on five stars? Two things.
First, in the final fifth or sixth of the book it begins to feel a bit too much like a sermon for this nonbeliever's taste. The majority of the book is excellent, engaging, exceptionally-written historical fiction. The final small chunk goes a bit too religious; but by then, I was too invested in the characters to stop reading.
Second, as good as Card is at creating believable characters (in this work and others), Dinah has a personality change that just doesn't jive with the way her character is established early on. Dinah is portrayed from the get-go as a critical thinker, skeptical and in need of seeing some serious evidence before she'll believe anything anybody tells her. In fact, her rocky relationship with her father seems to have been put into the novel specifically to set her up as the most skeptical character in the book. But once she hears the Mormon message, she is instantly ready to believe it without further evidence.
Undoubtedly Card intended the reader to grasp the inherent believability of the Mormon missionaries' message specifically BECAUSE Dinah is such a critical thinker. We're to think, "If Dinah can believe it so easily, then any of these characters can believe it." Alas for Card, the trick doesn't come off so well. He does such a fine job of establishing Dinah's skepticism early on that her instant acceptance of the message and her total willingness to make enormous personal sacrifices to travel to America and become a Saint come off as being totally out of character.
(As an aside, there is some focus in the latter part of the novel on the urgency the men felt in spreading the "doctrine" of polygamy amongst their congregation. Many readers will find this highly unpalatable, but as a fan of historical fiction, and as a person with a fairly in-depth knowledge of the history of the Mormon church, I found this to be one of the most interesting parts of the book. The "doctrine" was a major sticking point in the church's early development, broke it into factions, and ultimately affected the history not only of the church but of our nation -- read up on the State of Deseret and Brigham Young's very interesting/disturbing life -- and his conflicts with President Buchanan -- for a real eye-opener! I thought giving polygamy such weight in this novel was a smart move...rather than making the book "more Mormon," it made the book more relevant to American history.)
Well, no author is perfect, nor is any book. Saints' flaws are minor in comparison to its strengths, and Dinah is quickly back to her clear-headed self, and the story resumes in a satisfying way with only the slight residual discomfort of having gone over a kind of character speed bump. I still rank Saints among my favorite historical novels, and certainly among my favorite books by Orson Scott Card.
It was written early in Card's career, before he began (in my opinion) phoning it in. Saints comes from the same inspired, energetic, ultra-creative Orson Scott Card who gave us Wyrms, Hart's Hope, and the Alvin Maker series, not to mention Ender's Game and his exceptional early-career short fiction.
Like his other works from the same era, Saints is astonishingly vivid, in terms of both prose and atmosphere. It paints a gritty, dark scene of Industrial England, with all its societal injustices; and set atop this canvas is the tragic portrait of a family of good people slowly being torn apart. The subtle darkness and deep emotion are pure classic Card, as is the delicacy of the writing. Before the phone-it-in phase, Card was the best of the best at character development, particularly through dialog; and the interactions between the Kirkham family as they strive for their own identities and desires make for a priceless study in character.
The latter portion of the book takes place in America, once some of the Kirkhams have left England to join up with the "Saints" -- the other members of the fledgling Mormon Church. As a no-longer-Mormon, I found it just a tad amusing that a novel written by a staunch Mormon took such liberties in portraying the characters of important Church founders, such as Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. They were not always portrayed in the most favorable light -- which is only a testament to how good Card's writing was during this phase of his career. It would have been easy for this author to make these characters virtually infallible, but Card was better back then at creating real characters. The fact that he chose to portray Smith, Young, and others as men with real, often serious personality flaws speaks to the quality of the reading experience and this novel's deserved place among the best historical novels.
What keeps this one from being a full-on five stars? Two things.
First, in the final fifth or sixth of the book it begins to feel a bit too much like a sermon for this nonbeliever's taste. The majority of the book is excellent, engaging, exceptionally-written historical fiction. The final small chunk goes a bit too religious; but by then, I was too invested in the characters to stop reading.
Second, as good as Card is at creating believable characters (in this work and others), Dinah has a personality change that just doesn't jive with the way her character is established early on. Dinah is portrayed from the get-go as a critical thinker, skeptical and in need of seeing some serious evidence before she'll believe anything anybody tells her. In fact, her rocky relationship with her father seems to have been put into the novel specifically to set her up as the most skeptical character in the book. But once she hears the Mormon message, she is instantly ready to believe it without further evidence.
Undoubtedly Card intended the reader to grasp the inherent believability of the Mormon missionaries' message specifically BECAUSE Dinah is such a critical thinker. We're to think, "If Dinah can believe it so easily, then any of these characters can believe it." Alas for Card, the trick doesn't come off so well. He does such a fine job of establishing Dinah's skepticism early on that her instant acceptance of the message and her total willingness to make enormous personal sacrifices to travel to America and become a Saint come off as being totally out of character.
(As an aside, there is some focus in the latter part of the novel on the urgency the men felt in spreading the "doctrine" of polygamy amongst their congregation. Many readers will find this highly unpalatable, but as a fan of historical fiction, and as a person with a fairly in-depth knowledge of the history of the Mormon church, I found this to be one of the most interesting parts of the book. The "doctrine" was a major sticking point in the church's early development, broke it into factions, and ultimately affected the history not only of the church but of our nation -- read up on the State of Deseret and Brigham Young's very interesting/disturbing life -- and his conflicts with President Buchanan -- for a real eye-opener! I thought giving polygamy such weight in this novel was a smart move...rather than making the book "more Mormon," it made the book more relevant to American history.)
Well, no author is perfect, nor is any book. Saints' flaws are minor in comparison to its strengths, and Dinah is quickly back to her clear-headed self, and the story resumes in a satisfying way with only the slight residual discomfort of having gone over a kind of character speed bump. I still rank Saints among my favorite historical novels, and certainly among my favorite books by Orson Scott Card.
November 3, 2020
This is not normally a book I would have chosen, but it was recommended to me by a colleague's wife. Weirder still, this is the second book this year that I have read about Mormons. The first book, Jon Krakauer's Under The Banner of Heaven, gave me a solid foundation for this fictionalized account of the early days of the LDS church. The origins of the LDS church (which are questionable) are glossed over and seriously romanticized.
(There is even a contemporary historian fictional character who attempts to rationalize the more bizarre stuff that happened in the LDS church through a 'modern LDS perspective', so LDS readers can feel even better about the glorified history.)
Bottom line: Orson Scott Card is a Mormon, and this book amounts to pretty straight-up LDS propaganda. It is, however, well-written, and provides an interesting study into how one LDS member views their history.
(There is even a contemporary historian fictional character who attempts to rationalize the more bizarre stuff that happened in the LDS church through a 'modern LDS perspective', so LDS readers can feel even better about the glorified history.)
Bottom line: Orson Scott Card is a Mormon, and this book amounts to pretty straight-up LDS propaganda. It is, however, well-written, and provides an interesting study into how one LDS member views their history.
March 11, 2008
This is an interesting take on the Early Saints historical fiction. In most historical novels about the early Church, the main characters are all fictitious. In Card's novel, the main family is ficticious, however, many of the Church leaders, including Brigham Young and Joseph Smith play vital roles. It is interesting to see what these people may have been thinking, and he covers polygamy pretty deeply which most authors do not dare to tread. It is hard to know, sometimes, what is an actualy event and what is fiction, so you take it in with a grain of salt. It is helpful and insighful to read is postscript at the end of the novel.
December 5, 2008
In all honesty, I didn't want to like Orson Scott Card's novel, "Saints", when I picked it up this time. I had read it twice before, and it bugged me both of those times, so I didn't expect anything to be different. But it has been close to a decade since I last read it, and I am a big fan of Card, so I thought I'd give it another shot. And while I can't say I particularly liked it, it had some redeeming values that I had overlooked in the past.
As a Latter-day Saint (or Mormon), I have been on the receiving end of the "look" folks give. You know, when some off-shoot of the LDS church gets arrested because some guy has thirty wives, half of them under the age of 13. No matter how much I protest that we are not them, folks give me the "look" and lump our missionaries in with the publicized groups. And so, picking up a book about polygamy raised my hackles from the offset.
First, the things I didn't like about the novel, other than the basic premise. I didn't appreciate the nonfiction approach the introduction took. Yes, yes, we should all have noticed that the "author's note" is signed "O. Kirkham" and not "O. Card." But, frankly, I was about twelve when I read the novel, and so I foolishly thought it was fact. I hate that distrustful narrator. I didn't like it in Crichton's "Eaters of the Dead," and I don't like it now, even when I knew all the way through this was fiction.
I didn't like the way the narrator had the gall to stick us in Joseph Smith's head and assume what he was thinking. Perhaps I am overly sensitive on the subject, having received "the look" more than once, but as many people have harped on the subject of Joseph Smith, you would think the writer could be more sensitive, particularly if he is going to make him "human." If he's going to humanize him, or portray him "realistically", then why not do it from the outside. Even as I type this, I realize it is stupid - I enjoy a good historical fiction, and love Card's "Women of Genesis" series especially, series where he puts us in the heads of scriptural folks. But for some reason, people are more prone to say, "See, Joseph Smith was a fraud" than they are to say "See, Abraham was a fake." Probably because more people believe the Bible is true than believe in the Book of Mormon.
One tiny thing that bugged me - there is more profanity in this novel than any of Card's other novels. I would have expected more swearing from his science fiction stories than from his novel about the Saints. And I really did not enjoy having the apostles swearing. Great, fine, they are human and painted so - but it doesn't need to be done so repeatedly crudely. This is one of Card's early novels, so I am sure he thought more readers would be LDS than not. He did, however, manage to drastically reduce the profanity once he got us out of London, which was appreciated.
Last thing I didn't like, and this isn't really the author's fault: lack of documentation. I guess I have just been spoiled by Gerald Lund, who documents so many of his historical fiction in full. Although I am not overly comfortable by the humanizing of Joseph Smith, I could have swallowed it better if it had been footnoted. Did Joseph really engage in fights against river rats? I think I could have handled the scene better if there was some reference to bounce off of.
You might think, from this list, that I really didn't like the book very much. Frankly, it wasn't until I was about 2/3rds of the way through that I finally caught the message the author was beating on (and it came from one of the fictionalized author's notes; Card did use those in good stead). The point was this: the majority of the women depicted in the novel as participants in plural marriage were not shrinking violets. They were strong women, women of steel. Here we have a woman who spoke what she thought, who refused to be carried, who fought to stand on her own, and she entered into plural marriage. This was not someone overpowered by charisma or too weak to say "no." The same was true of many of the other wives - Harriette, Sally, Vilate. This was the redeeming power of the knowledge, that it showed the true mettle of many of the women. Indeed, Dinah seems well modeled after Eliza Snow, a real LDS woman who was married to both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
I can't say I like the way Emma Smith was portrayed, but then again, the author does a good job of redeeming her. It is fact that she rejected Joseph's teachings of plural marriage; it is fact that she disliked Brigham Young; it is fact that she did not come with the church. And so she, like Joseph, is not portrayed as perfect. But she is portrayed as strong, as a woman who loves her husband, who struggles through so much (and I would pray daily never to have to suffer a tenth of what Emma suffered), who tried to do the right thing but who just could not give what God asked her to give up, having given up so much else.
I completely enjoyed the first part of the novel - as much as you can enjoy a tragedy, of course. The author really set the stage for Dinah's life in Nauvoo, and showed us just how strong she was. There were a couple points I didn't like about her conversion - the conversion itself seems weakly described, although it is surely difficult to accurately describe such a deeply intense and personal thing. I also disliked the way she seemed to focus on Joseph from so far away; it could be easily read that she had a fixation and so of course she would wind up marrying him, although I think the author was trying to show us that it was the Lord's will for them to be sealed from the start. Because the conversion seemed shallow, I can see how nonmembers would criticize Dinah for leaving her children. Even as a member with a strong and deep testimony, I am not sure I could do such a thing (and pray I never have to); of the many trials endured by the early Saints, I never even pictured this one, though I am sure it happened on occasion. But still, Dinah's words and actions make her seem more obsessive towards Joseph - "I left behind my children for you" - than Jesus. But the characterization of Dinah, Robert, Charlie, and Anna was all very well done.
Again, the redeeming point of this novel is that it shows the lives and attitudes of strong women and their dreams of a sisterhood of plural wives. But if you can't handle a humanistic - whether realistic or not, I don't know, but definitely a humanistic - view of Joseph Smith, this book is not for you. Oh, yes, and I am still not sure how it was originally billed as a romance; Card needs to avoid the romance genre.
As a Latter-day Saint (or Mormon), I have been on the receiving end of the "look" folks give. You know, when some off-shoot of the LDS church gets arrested because some guy has thirty wives, half of them under the age of 13. No matter how much I protest that we are not them, folks give me the "look" and lump our missionaries in with the publicized groups. And so, picking up a book about polygamy raised my hackles from the offset.
First, the things I didn't like about the novel, other than the basic premise. I didn't appreciate the nonfiction approach the introduction took. Yes, yes, we should all have noticed that the "author's note" is signed "O. Kirkham" and not "O. Card." But, frankly, I was about twelve when I read the novel, and so I foolishly thought it was fact. I hate that distrustful narrator. I didn't like it in Crichton's "Eaters of the Dead," and I don't like it now, even when I knew all the way through this was fiction.
I didn't like the way the narrator had the gall to stick us in Joseph Smith's head and assume what he was thinking. Perhaps I am overly sensitive on the subject, having received "the look" more than once, but as many people have harped on the subject of Joseph Smith, you would think the writer could be more sensitive, particularly if he is going to make him "human." If he's going to humanize him, or portray him "realistically", then why not do it from the outside. Even as I type this, I realize it is stupid - I enjoy a good historical fiction, and love Card's "Women of Genesis" series especially, series where he puts us in the heads of scriptural folks. But for some reason, people are more prone to say, "See, Joseph Smith was a fraud" than they are to say "See, Abraham was a fake." Probably because more people believe the Bible is true than believe in the Book of Mormon.
One tiny thing that bugged me - there is more profanity in this novel than any of Card's other novels. I would have expected more swearing from his science fiction stories than from his novel about the Saints. And I really did not enjoy having the apostles swearing. Great, fine, they are human and painted so - but it doesn't need to be done so repeatedly crudely. This is one of Card's early novels, so I am sure he thought more readers would be LDS than not. He did, however, manage to drastically reduce the profanity once he got us out of London, which was appreciated.
Last thing I didn't like, and this isn't really the author's fault: lack of documentation. I guess I have just been spoiled by Gerald Lund, who documents so many of his historical fiction in full. Although I am not overly comfortable by the humanizing of Joseph Smith, I could have swallowed it better if it had been footnoted. Did Joseph really engage in fights against river rats? I think I could have handled the scene better if there was some reference to bounce off of.
You might think, from this list, that I really didn't like the book very much. Frankly, it wasn't until I was about 2/3rds of the way through that I finally caught the message the author was beating on (and it came from one of the fictionalized author's notes; Card did use those in good stead). The point was this: the majority of the women depicted in the novel as participants in plural marriage were not shrinking violets. They were strong women, women of steel. Here we have a woman who spoke what she thought, who refused to be carried, who fought to stand on her own, and she entered into plural marriage. This was not someone overpowered by charisma or too weak to say "no." The same was true of many of the other wives - Harriette, Sally, Vilate. This was the redeeming power of the knowledge, that it showed the true mettle of many of the women. Indeed, Dinah seems well modeled after Eliza Snow, a real LDS woman who was married to both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
I can't say I like the way Emma Smith was portrayed, but then again, the author does a good job of redeeming her. It is fact that she rejected Joseph's teachings of plural marriage; it is fact that she disliked Brigham Young; it is fact that she did not come with the church. And so she, like Joseph, is not portrayed as perfect. But she is portrayed as strong, as a woman who loves her husband, who struggles through so much (and I would pray daily never to have to suffer a tenth of what Emma suffered), who tried to do the right thing but who just could not give what God asked her to give up, having given up so much else.
I completely enjoyed the first part of the novel - as much as you can enjoy a tragedy, of course. The author really set the stage for Dinah's life in Nauvoo, and showed us just how strong she was. There were a couple points I didn't like about her conversion - the conversion itself seems weakly described, although it is surely difficult to accurately describe such a deeply intense and personal thing. I also disliked the way she seemed to focus on Joseph from so far away; it could be easily read that she had a fixation and so of course she would wind up marrying him, although I think the author was trying to show us that it was the Lord's will for them to be sealed from the start. Because the conversion seemed shallow, I can see how nonmembers would criticize Dinah for leaving her children. Even as a member with a strong and deep testimony, I am not sure I could do such a thing (and pray I never have to); of the many trials endured by the early Saints, I never even pictured this one, though I am sure it happened on occasion. But still, Dinah's words and actions make her seem more obsessive towards Joseph - "I left behind my children for you" - than Jesus. But the characterization of Dinah, Robert, Charlie, and Anna was all very well done.
Again, the redeeming point of this novel is that it shows the lives and attitudes of strong women and their dreams of a sisterhood of plural wives. But if you can't handle a humanistic - whether realistic or not, I don't know, but definitely a humanistic - view of Joseph Smith, this book is not for you. Oh, yes, and I am still not sure how it was originally billed as a romance; Card needs to avoid the romance genre.
February 6, 2010
A very thick book (800 pages or so), but I loved it. The hardback book is the version that I read (not the one pictured above) and I think that's the best because you have a big essay at the end by Card that explains the story behind writing the book.
I have to confess that I had my husband start reading it and he was bothered by the use of swear words. To me the "colorful" words and some mature situations that were described (tastefully) I compare to looking at a classic painting with a nude woman in it - there is a purpose to the nudity and it gives a deeper meaning to the message of the painting - and it's done tastefully and doesn't give you the feeling that you're looking at porn. I've read other books with less swear words and mature situations that were written in such a way that I felt tainted and put down the book. Anyway - back to the book's content . . . the quickest answer would be to say that it is like the Work and the Glory series except with well written dialog, narration, characterization . . . okay so the only similarity is that it is a story of a fictional family in the 1800's whose lives become intertwined with the lives of real historical people such as Emma Smith, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball etc. What I think is most amazing is his treatment of polygomy. If that isn't the hardest subject to tackle, I don't know what is, but he pulled it off with amazing insight, I believe.
I have to confess that I had my husband start reading it and he was bothered by the use of swear words. To me the "colorful" words and some mature situations that were described (tastefully) I compare to looking at a classic painting with a nude woman in it - there is a purpose to the nudity and it gives a deeper meaning to the message of the painting - and it's done tastefully and doesn't give you the feeling that you're looking at porn. I've read other books with less swear words and mature situations that were written in such a way that I felt tainted and put down the book. Anyway - back to the book's content . . . the quickest answer would be to say that it is like the Work and the Glory series except with well written dialog, narration, characterization . . . okay so the only similarity is that it is a story of a fictional family in the 1800's whose lives become intertwined with the lives of real historical people such as Emma Smith, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball etc. What I think is most amazing is his treatment of polygomy. If that isn't the hardest subject to tackle, I don't know what is, but he pulled it off with amazing insight, I believe.
May 18, 2011
I loved the first part of this book. After the main character joins the church and begins to travel to America it was all down hill and I had to stop reading. As a new mother I found the idea of her having to abandon her children as extremely depressing and unthinkable. Her hallucinations about Prophet Joseph Smith kind of bugged me a little bit to. I stopped reading about half way through and was turned off to Orson Scott Card after that...Maybe I'll try again later.
Okay, so I tried again later and finished it. Hmmm...still don't love it or even like most of the book. It has some powerful and difficult themes and the characters are easy to become attached to, but I couldn't help but cringe through most of this book. I tried...
Okay, so I tried again later and finished it. Hmmm...still don't love it or even like most of the book. It has some powerful and difficult themes and the characters are easy to become attached to, but I couldn't help but cringe through most of this book. I tried...
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
September 20, 2007
I didn't realize this was a book dealing with Mormonism when I scooped it up at the library. I almost took it back, but going to the library with 2 kids under 4 is no fun, so I decided to make the best of it. I really enjoyed the first half of the book (before the family became Mormons and moved to the new world). While the rest was historically interesting, I never could get into it. It did inspire me to know more about Joseph Smith (there is a huge Mormon church being built in our neighborhood), so I am now reading Rough Stone Rolling.
June 9, 2009
Sorry but I had a huge issue with the main character after she joins the Mormon church and leaves her family (husband and children) for her faith. All credibility was lost at that point because lets just face it anyone who thinks that's ok or condones such behavior must be off their nut.
Read
March 24, 2021Very good read. Deals with a difficult subject for us today. Polygamy looks very different through 2021 eyes. It was hard and foreign enough even in 1842. I see a lot of reviews on here that take the author to task for his description of the marital intimacies involving Joseph and Brigham. And maybe it's a little further than some are comfortable with. But I think it was tasteful overall and painted a picture of the difficulty in applying the principle of plural marriage into the lives of the early Saints.
I feel like this book was a little more realistic painting (accurate or not) of what things might have been like. I tend to look at church history as a series of huge and grandiose events involving people who were larger than life in their perfection and sainthood. But that's not fair to the people involved who were still mortals doing the best they could with what the Lord gave them. I think Joseph and Brigham were very exceptional people but they would be the first to tell you that they were human and made their mistakes along the way.
The accuracy or lack of it here doesn't bother me because any historical fiction attempts to paint a picture, filling in a lot of details that we don't have preserved to us today. If we throw out anything that isn't perfectly sourced then we don't ever get a chance to see what it all might have been like. It's good to remember that this is an interpretation only of what might have been.
A gem for me: the discussion between Dinah and her mother about how sometimes the Lord, in asking for us to give our all, asks that we even sacrifice our conscience. That was a tough one for me to swallow. But very believable the more I think about it. Dinah had to do some swallowing of her conscience before getting into polygamy. And she laid it on the altar to demonstrate her faith in Joseph as a prophet. I think we assume that our conscience always equals the light of Christ or the Spirit witnessing truth to us. And much of the time that's true. But sometimes we need to be willing to peel back our "conscience" a little and see how much of it might be due to our culture/experience rather than pure direction from above. Very tough. Sometimes the Lord wants us to make that choice without a ton of direction and we're down to the brass tacks level of raw faith.
I feel like this book was a little more realistic painting (accurate or not) of what things might have been like. I tend to look at church history as a series of huge and grandiose events involving people who were larger than life in their perfection and sainthood. But that's not fair to the people involved who were still mortals doing the best they could with what the Lord gave them. I think Joseph and Brigham were very exceptional people but they would be the first to tell you that they were human and made their mistakes along the way.
The accuracy or lack of it here doesn't bother me because any historical fiction attempts to paint a picture, filling in a lot of details that we don't have preserved to us today. If we throw out anything that isn't perfectly sourced then we don't ever get a chance to see what it all might have been like. It's good to remember that this is an interpretation only of what might have been.
A gem for me: the discussion between Dinah and her mother about how sometimes the Lord, in asking for us to give our all, asks that we even sacrifice our conscience. That was a tough one for me to swallow. But very believable the more I think about it. Dinah had to do some swallowing of her conscience before getting into polygamy. And she laid it on the altar to demonstrate her faith in Joseph as a prophet. I think we assume that our conscience always equals the light of Christ or the Spirit witnessing truth to us. And much of the time that's true. But sometimes we need to be willing to peel back our "conscience" a little and see how much of it might be due to our culture/experience rather than pure direction from above. Very tough. Sometimes the Lord wants us to make that choice without a ton of direction and we're down to the brass tacks level of raw faith.
September 1, 2020
I didn't like the rough language used by most of the characters. For me, it didn't fit the time period or the circumstances. I had a hard time finishing this book. It felt like it went too long. I expected a family saga, which held true to some degree, but it was mostly centered on one specific faith denomination.
December 29, 2009
Wow. This book demanded a lot from me but, boy did it deliver.
It's definitely not a book you'd want to read for Family Home Evening. It portrays the early Mormon pioneers and church leaders as humans with passions and weaknesses. To faithful members of the church, this may seem jarring and at times even blasphemous.
Although there are a few things I would've done differently had I been editing the book, I felt on the whole it was tastefully done. It made the characters real to me and helped me understand that a man can still be a prophet and still have human frailties. But it doesn't focus on those weaknesses it focuses on their everyday struggles to keep the church together, keep families safe and happy, and seeking out the Lord's will and accomplishing it.
Of most worth to me was the understanding I gained about the law of polygamy, why the early church practiced it, how it worked, and why it ended. His research is phenomenal.
Card argues that all church records and journals should be made public regardless of whether they might injure the church. His reasoning is that the church is true, so in the long run, the truth will out.
I believe the church is right to simplify and "clean up" the church history because so many members are just finding their faith. If they had to wade through raw history and every little thing that Joseph Smith supposedly did wrong, focus would be taken off the Book of Mormon and the absolute truth of the gospel.
The gospel is simple. Church history, not so much. I love the understanding this book afforded me (and yes it even strengthened my testimony of the church) but I would be careful with it.
I would recommend this book to non-Mormons wondering about polygamy and the strange ways of the church, and also to those members whose testimonies won't be swayed by a little raw realism.
Take this novel with a large grain of salt and I don't think you'll be disappointed.
It's definitely not a book you'd want to read for Family Home Evening. It portrays the early Mormon pioneers and church leaders as humans with passions and weaknesses. To faithful members of the church, this may seem jarring and at times even blasphemous.
Although there are a few things I would've done differently had I been editing the book, I felt on the whole it was tastefully done. It made the characters real to me and helped me understand that a man can still be a prophet and still have human frailties. But it doesn't focus on those weaknesses it focuses on their everyday struggles to keep the church together, keep families safe and happy, and seeking out the Lord's will and accomplishing it.
Of most worth to me was the understanding I gained about the law of polygamy, why the early church practiced it, how it worked, and why it ended. His research is phenomenal.
Card argues that all church records and journals should be made public regardless of whether they might injure the church. His reasoning is that the church is true, so in the long run, the truth will out.
I believe the church is right to simplify and "clean up" the church history because so many members are just finding their faith. If they had to wade through raw history and every little thing that Joseph Smith supposedly did wrong, focus would be taken off the Book of Mormon and the absolute truth of the gospel.
The gospel is simple. Church history, not so much. I love the understanding this book afforded me (and yes it even strengthened my testimony of the church) but I would be careful with it.
I would recommend this book to non-Mormons wondering about polygamy and the strange ways of the church, and also to those members whose testimonies won't be swayed by a little raw realism.
Take this novel with a large grain of salt and I don't think you'll be disappointed.
May 2, 2020
"Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card is one of my all-time favorites. And I thoroughly enjoyed all the sequels. I consider Card one of the finest science fiction writers of all time. Little did I suspect that he has also written excellent historical fiction. "Saints" (first published way back in 1984) begins in Manchester, England, in 1829, in the midst of the horrors of the industrial revolution. A family falls on hard times and you quickly get caught up in their day-to-day struggles for survival. But no sooner do you think you are reading a latter-day version of Dickens, then the Latter Day Saints appear. Young Dinah Kirkham and her mother and brother convert to Mormonism and emigrate to America -- extraordinary events that the author makes seem inevitable, from his thorough build-up of the characters and their circumstances. Dinah becomes the focus of the book, which follows her from age 10 to age 100, marrying Joseph Smith, and later Brigham Young. She becomes so real, so believable, so necessary to the history of the Mormon Church, that when you are done reading the novel, you'll be impelled to do one Google search after another, looking for evidence that such a woman really lived. The author also succeeds remarkably in making the strangest beliefs and practices of the Mormon Church -- including polygamy -- seem natural and inevitable: psychologically "true".
March 20, 2008
I found this book, falling apart, at the back of a privately owned used book store located just off of the courthouse square in downtown Seguin. The title was "A Woman of Destiny", the cover was bent and worn, and several of the middle pages were loose. However, this was before I'd discovered the wonders of used books on Amazon.com and so I was collecting every Card book I could find by way of - if I saw it, and I didn't own it, I bought it. I had no idea what I'd found...
It took me quite a long time to get through it. The story starts very slow, and is set in England during the Industrial Revolution - which is one of my LEAST favorite time periods. However, the story begins to truly develop and ends up being one of the most engaging emotional reads of my life. Don't get me wrong, it was very hard to finish the book because the trials of themain character are so incredibly heart breaking - but it is good. Once again, Card pulls off a masterpiece. Only, this time, he's left me realizing I'm totally a second rater. I fear I love my son more than I love God - I don't think I could ever make the choices that Dinah did. Oh well.
It took me quite a long time to get through it. The story starts very slow, and is set in England during the Industrial Revolution - which is one of my LEAST favorite time periods. However, the story begins to truly develop and ends up being one of the most engaging emotional reads of my life. Don't get me wrong, it was very hard to finish the book because the trials of themain character are so incredibly heart breaking - but it is good. Once again, Card pulls off a masterpiece. Only, this time, he's left me realizing I'm totally a second rater. I fear I love my son more than I love God - I don't think I could ever make the choices that Dinah did. Oh well.
April 11, 2008
I can't recommend this book. Besides thematic issues I have with it, the writing is jut not that impressive. The first part reads kind of like Sinclair's The Jungle--lots of gruesome details to catch your attention (I cried for the first 60 pages.) The rest reads like a trashy romance novel with a bit of religion added in.
The main theme of the book is how the main character, Dinah deals with polygamy, especially the sexual aspect. I honestly can't say I've studied Joseph Smith history well enough to make this claim, but it seems that Card takes significant and sometimes offensive liberties in fictionalizing the relationships between Joseph Smith and his wives.
The only redeeming factor: by using a third person omniscient point of view, Card accomplishes what seems to be his goal of helping his readers understand polygamy on a more personal level. However, it bothers me that I don't know whether that "new understanding" is correct or not. Now I think I need a nonfiction book on the subject.
The main theme of the book is how the main character, Dinah deals with polygamy, especially the sexual aspect. I honestly can't say I've studied Joseph Smith history well enough to make this claim, but it seems that Card takes significant and sometimes offensive liberties in fictionalizing the relationships between Joseph Smith and his wives.
The only redeeming factor: by using a third person omniscient point of view, Card accomplishes what seems to be his goal of helping his readers understand polygamy on a more personal level. However, it bothers me that I don't know whether that "new understanding" is correct or not. Now I think I need a nonfiction book on the subject.
April 24, 2008
OH MY GOODNESS! As usual it is hard to tell if a woman that would leave her children for the LDS is church is extremely faithful or just plain crazy. I loved this book, but was also really bothered at times, that is why it gets 4 instead of 5 stars. I don't think reading Escape by Carolyn Jessop right before this was helpful. The whole polygamy thing gets us all, but while at times I've chosen to ignore it, I think it is really powerful to read a story, even if fictional about the women that endured it. I love Emma Smith and while in this book she is definitely not the heroine, Card has a much different version imagined than the movie "Emma Smith - my story" portrays. Of course the movie skirted right over polygamy and Emma leaving the church. I could go on forever.... Alas, I will take a break from religious matters and head into Gothic Literature.
Does anyone think that Dinah might be based on Eliza Snow?
Does anyone think that Dinah might be based on Eliza Snow?
February 13, 2008
I don't recommend this book to anyone. I didn't hate it, per se, I just don't think it really contains enough meaningful writing to warrant reading it.
I thoroughly enjoyed Card's methods of helping you to really understand a character and get inside their mind. However, certain characters in the book are real people, and although Card is an avid historian, he quite likely used a little too much artistic license in his portrayal of certain characters and specifically conversations, situations, events, etc.
If you want to truly get to know Joseph Smith and early saints, there are far better books to do it with. I'm not saying they have to be a "rosy story" about the complicated Mormon past, but I enjoy history books much more that contain facts rather than invented stories.
Card is a good author, and I've loved many of his books, but this one is a misser, in my opinion. I'm not offended by the book, I just give it a solid "meh".
I thoroughly enjoyed Card's methods of helping you to really understand a character and get inside their mind. However, certain characters in the book are real people, and although Card is an avid historian, he quite likely used a little too much artistic license in his portrayal of certain characters and specifically conversations, situations, events, etc.
If you want to truly get to know Joseph Smith and early saints, there are far better books to do it with. I'm not saying they have to be a "rosy story" about the complicated Mormon past, but I enjoy history books much more that contain facts rather than invented stories.
Card is a good author, and I've loved many of his books, but this one is a misser, in my opinion. I'm not offended by the book, I just give it a solid "meh".
February 4, 2011
First off, I love Orson Scott Card's column in Mormon Times. I also loved "Enders Game" but "Saints" was a huge dissapointment. I really enjoy historical fiction which is the premise of this book concerning the lives of several prominant and not so prominant early Mormons. Dealing mostly with the polygamy issue.
I've never read a Harlequin Romance but I think this book would fit in that category. YUK. A soap opera in the 1800's. I really don't care nor want to know about the bedroom scene over and over with just about every character that comes in the picture. It's taken me months to get through it and now I'm wondering why did I bother? I think because I was hoping it would be redeemed since Mr. Card is a great author but not this time around in my opinion.
This book was written back in 1983 and it's been sitting on my shelf for years and years and now I'm thinking it's going in the trash. I can't think of one person that would enjoy this book.
I've never read a Harlequin Romance but I think this book would fit in that category. YUK. A soap opera in the 1800's. I really don't care nor want to know about the bedroom scene over and over with just about every character that comes in the picture. It's taken me months to get through it and now I'm wondering why did I bother? I think because I was hoping it would be redeemed since Mr. Card is a great author but not this time around in my opinion.
This book was written back in 1983 and it's been sitting on my shelf for years and years and now I'm thinking it's going in the trash. I can't think of one person that would enjoy this book.
January 2, 2009
Can I just say....OH MY TOAST!!! This book was incredible. I usually shy away from Mormon fiction... I don't appreciate the false integrity of the characters. Sorry, but usually it's just not realistic. (Remember, I said usually.) But, in Card's "Saints" the characters were very real. A wonderful book tackling polygamy and all the feeling involved. One caution, the book is fiction. The main character didn't live and her diary isn't real. Joseph Smith is portrayed as a man with faults, as well as a prophet. My testimony of Smith as a prophet and President of the Church was not shaken, but I know friends who have struggled after reading the book. The newly released hardcover is best to seek out, it has an afterward by Card that explains his process for writing the book, giving more information on what was fiction and fact.
May 14, 2008
Not a book I would recommend to just anyone, but it is one of my favorites! I used to get sick at just the mention of polygamy before reading this book. And while I'm not saying I would actually be able to live it now, I'm more at peace with it being in the LDS history. Card did paint the first two prophets pretty rough around the edges, but I didn't really have any problems with it. It made them more real to me. If you think you could go through the literal hell they did and not have some feelings of aggression or anger, I think you might be deluding yourself. Some things did bug me, but on the whole, I found it a moving story, and one that profoundly affected me and made me a better person for having read it.
September 20, 2012
Let me star by saind that I´m not a mormom, and the only reason that I read these book is that it´s written by Orson Scott Card. He is a master of science fiction, and never have disappointed me. I´ve even liked his biblical fiction, and don´t care about the political controversies that alienate some readers. Therefore, Saints is a good book, maybe too long, but easy to follow and powerful in the characterizations. I found interesting to read about a different culture and religion, and the poligamy angle was really well played. Also, the author did a lot of reserch about life in the 19th century, and his passion shines. Not a book for everyone, but hose with an opend mind will apreciate ir.
September 9, 2009
Not what I was expecting. I think this is the first OSC book I've ever been truly disappointed in. I didn't even read the whole thing, just skimmed through, until I realized that the book IS about the early LDS saints, but it is almost entirely about polygamy in the early years of the church--told from a fictional viewpoint. Call me narrow-minded, but I just think some things are better left alone. I don't think this book does justice to the prophet Joseph, the early saints or members of the church today.
January 31, 2008
I just finished this book today. If you enjoy historical ficiton this book is a great read. A warning though, the main characters are all fictional even though they interact with some of the founders of the church of latter day saints. I am not Mormon, but I still enjoyed this fictionalized account of the early days of the church. The author is a devout mormon, but manages to make the story interesting with out sermonizing.
January 24, 2008
I read this book a long time ago and really enjoyed the book. I have been thinking about reading it again and wonder if I would still like it. I don't remember being offended by Card's portrayal of the early Saints like some other reviewers were. Keep in mind this is a fictional account of one woman's conversion to the LDS church. The story is of an amazing woman who gives up everything for her faith.
April 19, 2009
same complaints as with his Rebekah book....I didn't like the way he portrayed Joseph Smith and the plural wife thing. Weird. The story about the girl sacrificing to join the church was touching, but he took too many liberties with Joseph's character. I prefer the historical fiction books that keep the real characters out of the main spotlight so that they pretty much stick to recorded sermons, etc.
September 3, 2009
did not find this uplifting so i didn't finish reading it. was about 3/4 through it. I like Card's sci-fic books but didn't like the coarse language and sex in this one. I know church members are normal beings but reading details about Joseph Smith (or anyone else for that matter) having sex with a plural wife was not what i want to read about. I think i would rather read the historic records than a fictionalized account that blurs facts with fiction.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
November 29, 2021
Okay, this book gave me something to think about, which I appreciated. But if you're an airhead like me and went to go read the LDS book Saints, THIS IS NOT IT. haha. I thought this was the church history book and so while reading a fiction novel was convinced it was all true. I'm sure it's a great book as a historical FICTION, but if you read it thinking it's true it's kindof like drinking sprite when you thought you got water.
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