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I heard an author say that you should write what you know. I love fantasy. It's what I read everyday. So I write fantasy. It's also more flexible, as an author you have a freedom to do whatever you want! As long as you can convince the reader to believe what you're writing.

For that reason, writing something that is believable but that is fantasy, writing fantasy is not easy. Making magic believable is hard. Names too have to be believable, you can't stick a character with a silly name and not expect a reader to start laughing in the middle of a story... unless you want that.

Still, writing fantasy is fun and challenging. The consequences are epic, normally the heroes are preventing the world from falling apart or the universe from being destroyed. There are no rules, you create the world.

Some people have mentioned originality being difficult. I find coming up with new concepts, worlds, magic systems, to be the greatest challenge. But when you find an untapped idea, with no cliches, you're going to create wonder.

Keryl wrote: "Traci wrote: "Do you find it hard to be orginal? I would think it would be difficult to stay away from ideas and styles that you admire in other authors."

Hmmm... I think there's a different stan..."

I agree with you. We do steal... oops... I mean "borrow" from each other. Nothing wrong with "borrowing". The classic tales are great to read. In some ways, fantasy has gone away from the traditional archetypes because we want to be original so badly. I know I want to. But sometimes an author goes back to using those familiar characters and concepts, those stories are fun to read too.

Mark wrote: "Hmmm. I think as free as the fantasy genre is it's still quite restricting in my opinion i mean a differnt world with wizards, trolls, orcs, swords, olde worlde type places, and things like that......"

Familiar tropes are part of what make these books fantasy. It's all about execution that makes the stories unique. But this is the case for most genres.

It's very difficult to come up with a truly unique and original idea these days.

To the: Is Fantasy Difficult To Write Question, I'd like to say, sort of.

Good fantasy, like good everything else is not easy. I don't think any of us sit down and just have pure gold flow from our brains to the word processor.

Every genre has it's rules. I'd say romance is probably the most strict about this. Fantasy has what I'd consider two hard and fast rules: Don't violate the laws of your magical system. The protagonist's side wins. (I've got a whole series of extended blog posts on the rules of fantasy planned, so this is the very quick and dirty version.) Beyond them, you can do pretty much whatever you want.

But that's a double edged sword. A very generic fantasy realm can allow a new or middle range talent to do some really interesting things. A phenomenal talent can start from scratch and create entire worlds. But the middle range talent looking to start from scratch is often over matched by the freedom of a fantasy setting.

I'm sure we've all run into stories where the plot, or setting, or characters were great, but the writer just wasn't up to the task of putting the whole package together.

But you don't have to start from scratch if you're a fantasy author, if you lean on the fantasy tropes (say the Hero's Journey) you can focus your creative energy on really nailing your character development and dialog, and let the plot and world creation slide a little. Likewise if you build your world from scratch but are having a hard time with character depth, you can fudge a little on them by studying what different roles are necessary for certain plots to work.

To my way of thinking, the single most difficult issue for the fantasy writer is really assessing your skills as a writer and not biting off more than you can chew. Or more precisely, not publishing the story you wrote that was more than you could chew. By all means, write as hard and as far as you can, but you need to be able to read the story and see that it needs shelf time and re-writes before it goes out.

Keryl wrote: "To the: Is Fantasy Difficult To Write Question, I'd like to say, sort of.

Good fantasy, like good everything else is not easy. I don't think any of us sit down and just have pure gold flow from ou..."

To an extent, I agree. And to an extent I disagree.

The idea that the protagonists side must always win? I don't think so. The end of my book is done in such a way that it can really only be considered a partial victory for the good guys. It's certainly not a "Happy Ending". And yet, I've gotten some good comments on my ending.

I think anything goes in Fantasy, so long as you can make it work, and you don't end up with a "Huh?" moment in your book.

When I was editing my book, I had my beta readers make note of any point that they thought was a real "Huh?" moment, and I fixed them so that they would work. This was a long process, but I ended up with what I think is a better product all round.

Part of good writing is soliciting feedback from a group of readers that you trust to give you honest feedback. If your writing sucks, they should tell you this, and you should trust their opinion enough to take this feedback and improve your work based on it.

i write fantasy because its what I like to read. I also feel that as Fantasy is all about exploring the Other, it is the best way for me to comment on how a minority community/ethnicity/faith experiences life in a host community, as well as exploring human nature and experience by subjecting it to pass through the eye of the negative.

Thomas wrote: The idea that the protagonists side must always win? I don't think so. The end of my book is done in such a way that it can really only be considered a partial victory for the good guys. It's certainly not a "Happy Ending". And yet, I've gotten some good comments on my ending.

Well, this is part of the whole: this is a very quick and very dirty version of these ideas, point.

But, to expand further: No a "happy ending" is not in any way required. Older, sadder, and wiser is a common and often well enjoyed version of the fantasy ending.

But, if you spend 300 pages following a character, building up his quest, explaining why he's doing what he's doing, maintaining an opposition team and keeping your reader invested in defeating the opposition, then three pages from the end have the Antagonist kill the Protagonist, defeat his side, and destroy any opposition to his forces, that better well not be the last book in the series, because the fans will have a fit.

Put it this way: if Return of the Jedi had ended with Vadar tossing Luke off the balcony, then blowing up Endor, and destroying the Rebel fleet, the fans would have literally rioted. I'm fairly sure George Lucas would have never made another film again.

Now, as I said, HEA is not necessary, and any sort of ending that involves the Protagonist's Team able to claim some sort of victory works. This does not mean the Protagonist survives the book. Nor does it mean Team Antagonist if fully vanquished. But by the end of your series the reader needs to be convinced that spending that time and emotional energy was worth it.

Heck, you can murder all of your main characters, have the Antagonist slaughter everyone they ever knew, as long as it's not the final book in the series and those actions set up the situation that will lead to Team Antagonists eventual downfall.

Tragedy is an allowable facet of fantasy, just not as the penultimate end of the story.

But hey, I may be wrong. If you've got an example of a well received fantasy, one the fans adored, where Team Antagonist slaughtered Team Protagonist, I'm interested to read it.

Thomas wrote: Familiar tropes are part of what make these books fantasy. It's all about execution that makes the stories unique. But this is the case for most genres.

It's very difficult to come up with a truly unique and original idea these days.

You have a point. There are only so many archetypes and all characters fall into one category or another. However, it is possible to take a standard archetype-like the wizard-and twist the class into something new and exciting. The bones will be there but the outward appearance will be something of the writer's creation. Execution is key, building the character-personality, history, motives, et cetera-will make the character stand out from all the other wizards. Also, changing the magic system helps or even the title of the class. However, deep down, the character is still a wizard wielding a magic of some sort.

In the end, it comes down to worldbuilding and trying to be as different as possible from the next idea.

I love writing fantasies/science fiction because basically I can view myself as a god creating worlds and beings :)

lol. :P

Sounds godly!

Phoebe wrote: "lol. :P

Sounds godly!"

true that :) I love being a kind of god, at least a god of my own written worlds. And my favorite time when writing the stories is when I can conjure whatever techs and magics i need to enrich the stories and can give good explanations about them satisfactorily.

Eko wrote: "Phoebe wrote: "lol. :P

Sounds godly!"

true that :) I love being a kind of god, at least a god of my own written worlds. And my favorite time when writing the stories is when I can conjure whateve..."

I'm of a similar mind. It's interesting to build up a world, just to create some form of strive, obliterate it, only to build it up again. :) God-like? perhaps. I like to think of it as fate-like. Even the gods must bow down to fate.

Thomas wrote: "Eko wrote: "Phoebe wrote: "lol. :P

Sounds godly!"

true that :) I love being a kind of god, at least a god of my own written worlds. And my favorite time when writing the stories is when I can con..."

True, as much as the gods may not like it! :P :D :)

I thought I would write fantasy for two reasons.

A) to give back to the genre I love

and

B) Writing a book and having it published is on my bucket list.

Bucket list? O.o

Phoebe wrote: "Bucket list? O.o" Colloquial term for stuff you want to do before you die. As in, before you kick the bucket.

ooohhhh. Nice. Very nice indeed! :P

Masha wrote: "If you publish a book on Amazon, can you list it in more than one genre? Is there a limit?"

You can choose two categories and these are not so much genres but are supposed to be "like the sections..."

I find the Amazon categories nearly useless. At least a third of my books are "World Literature", a real help.

Clinton wrote: "Will wrote: "Style and target - think Terry Pratchett. My series centres on the adventures of a dwarf rhythm and blues band trying to make a living, gigging, and surviving in a mix of our world an..."

Hi Clinton, sorry I'm late replying. had to work away from base for a few days.

Yes, the first installment ; The Banned Underground - The Amulet of Kings is out now, in all formats. Try Amazon. The second installment is due for release April/may, at the publisher's discretion.

Gavin wrote: "I thought I would write fantasy for two reasons.

A) to give back to the genre I love

and

B) Writing a book and having it published is on my bucket list."

How are you getting on with the writing, let alone finding a publisher?

How's the writin' comin' along, then? ^.^

Keryl wrote: "To the: Is Fantasy Difficult To Write Question, I'd like to say, sort of.

Good fantasy, like good everything else is not easy. I don't think any of us sit down and just have pure gold flow from ou..."

Keryl, I agree entirely with your points. For me, as a beginning author, i scaled down the worldbuilding to concentrate on the other facets of the book. It certainly made life easier...

Will wrote: Keryl, I agree entirely with your points. For me, as a beginning author, i scaled down the worldbuilding to concentrate on the other facets of the book. It certainly made life easier...

Yeah, being able to borrow from other realms and authors does make it a lot easier for us to get to know our characters.

I know as a reader I'll take a shallow world with deep characters over deep world building and shallow characters any and every day.

Hmm. I have been wondering: do you guys okay with medium character buildings, some world buildings but high dose of detailed magical and martial art actions :D ? I have been writing (hopefully) my first novel like that.

I'm a character reader. I'll forgive a lot of technical issues and flat world building for good/great characters.

But I've never read a book where I liked the world so much that I was willing to overlook a weak (in the sense of poorly written rather than not a tough guy) character.

I'm also a magic wonk. A good magical system won't draw me in, but it will make me significantly happier with a book.

Eko wrote: "Hmm. I have been wondering: do you guys okay with medium character buildings, some world buildings but high dose of detailed magical and martial art actions :D ? I have been writing (hopefully) my ..."

Stories have to be centered around character, wanting to discover what happens to the characters makes me want to flip to the next page. Worldbuilding, magic systems are icing on the cake, especially when everything is woven together to advance the story and develop the characters.

I see......characters...characters....

Clinton, I agree completely. Some books I have read are almost more of a travel guide than a fantasy book. It is the characters that keep me interested, with the action second.

Plus, it's always important to remember that it may be a different land for us, but for the characters it's everyday and mundane, just as our world is for us.

Will wrote: "Clinton, I agree completely. Some books I have read are almost more of a travel guide than a fantasy book. It is the characters that keep me interested, with the action second.

Plus, it's alwa..."

I'm in total agreement with you on this, Will. I recently read a fantasy book that was more of a travelogue than anything else. It described the world in excruciating, tedious detail and the characters were reduced to insignificant, barely-mentioned roles in the story. I finished the book, but I'm in no hurry to read the second, if I bother at all.

My own first fantasy novel focuses a lot on action and is very plot-driven. I've had a few comments from readers saying they wished they could have gotten to know my main character better. So, I've taken that to heart, and my second novel is a lot more character-driven. In my opinion, "Pool of Souls" is the better of the two. Characters definitely make the book.

Cheryl wrote: "I'm in total agreement with you on this, Will. I recently read a fantasy book that was more of a travelogue than anything else. It described the world in excruciating, tedious detail and the characters were reduced to insignificant, barely-mentioned roles in the story. I finished the book, but I'm in no hurry to read the second, if I bother at all. "

I've read many books of this sort. I even have a sub-category for the Travelogue book, which is the Guided Tour. The author has created a lot of really nifty objects and clever gizmos, and the book is a tour as he leads the characters from one to the next in a sequence designed to move the plot along. The endings seem almost accidental, and no real character development is required to get there. Simon R. Green writes many of this sort, if you know of any others let me know so I can avoid them. Hiero's Journey is another, although it has some character development. I liked that book quite a lot at one point, before I grew away from that type.

Cheryl wrote: "Will wrote: "Clinton, I agree completely. Some books I have read are almost more of a travel guide than a fantasy book. It is the characters that keep me interested, with the action second.

Pl..."

Cheryle, that's awesome that your taking the criticism and making a better book. I had the hardest time, when I first started, taking suggestions and criticism. Now, it's an invaluable took.

Will wrote: "Clinton, I agree completely. Some books I have read are almost more of a travel guide than a fantasy book. It is the characters that keep me interested, with the action second.

Plus, it's alwa..."

That's not to say we can't have cool action scenes and deep worldbuilding. I think that's why I read Sanderson. He creates the most detailed magic systems, crafts interesting worlds, AND his characters are engrossing. I'll read anything Brandon Sanderson writes!

Clinton wrote: "I had the hardest time, when I first started, taking suggestions and criticism."

I think this is a process that all new authors need to go through. Building up that thick skin, and learning not to take things personally when somebody doesn't like your book, or thinks it could be improved in some way.

Clinton wrote: "Will wrote: "Clinton, I agree completely. Some books I have read are almost more of a travel guide than a fantasy book. It is the characters that keep me interested, with the action second.

Plus..."

When I started writing my book, I had an entire world developed (one that I use in gaming). But for the purposes of the book, I use a very small portion of that world so that I don't end up with a travelogue. The idea was to narrow the scope and setting of the book to focus more on character and plot development.

I still get the odd comment that my characters are a little cliched or flat. But I get more positive comments than negative, so that's a good thing. :)

You should keep in mind what kind of book you are trying to write and seperate reader opinions by that. If you are trying to write a story in the style of old pulp and a reader who loves A Song of Ice and Fire complains about shallow characters and little plot...well that's not the book you wanted to write anyway. Now if you are hoping to be the next George RR Martin and you hear the same complaint than you have a problem.

Does this make sense? I'm not sure I'm being clear enough.

Traci wrote: "You should keep in mind what kind of book you are trying to write and seperate reader opinions by that. If you are trying to write a story in the style of old pulp and a reader who loves A Song of ..."

That makes perfect sense. :)

It's very important to understand both your target audience, and what type of author you want to be.

Reader feedback is important, but there's a time when you have to accept that a bad review could just be somebody outside of your target audience, and in that case, nothing you write will make them happy. It's okay to get bad reviews, as long as you know what to take away from them.

Thomas...

All authors need to purchase a set of plate armor before submitting a manuscript or simply giving it to beta readers to feast. LOL.

That's cool that you game and can use the world in your novels. I've heard of that as a good method for worldbuilding. I don't game, only done it once (for the first time this year actually, and I loved the experience and want to do more!). It seems a lot of writers started as RPG gamers, playing D&D and the like, and naturally transitioned into writing novels. The entire experience of creating a character and taking part in a campaign, wearing that character's skin and personality, is the bones of storytelling. I wish I had started a long time ago.

Clinton wrote: "That's cool that you game and can use the world in your novels. I've heard of that as a good method for worldbuilding."

That method is so overdone it's part of a list of questions I read long ago about fantasy novel cliches. Joel Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame series has that feel, inside and out.


question 34.

Gaming is a good start for imagination building, and for understanding what all needs to be in place for a properly functioning world.

The problem is, a lot of people who start off gaming write worlds where you can tell they are based on a game.

I just finished a book where the magic system was based on mana (red for fire, white for life, black for death, blue for air, blue-green for water, and green for earth). Guess what? That's the magical system of Magic the Gathering and an RPG computer game as well.

So, yeah, game, get good at it, really pay attention to what works, but for the love of all that's good and entertaining about fantasy, don't base your work that closely on it!

That's a write of passage. ( Sorry.) We all start thinking our work is beyond reproach, and the lucky ones amongst us realise quickly that it isn't...

Keryl wrote: "Gaming is a good start for imagination building, and for understanding what all needs to be in place for a properly functioning world.

The problem is, a lot of people who start off gaming write wo..."

Oh Mines not that obvious. I created a new magic system for the purposes of writing, because the D&D magic system is too... game-like. :) I've combined a vast amount of D&D experience with a vast amount of free-form role-playing experience, and then a splash of originality in my world. Also, as I said, I narrow the focus of my book, and concentrate on one small portion of my game world.

So yeah, nobody has mentioned it being too game-like yet, but there's always a first time for everything. :)

Marc wrote: "Clinton wrote: "That's cool that you game and can use the world in your novels. I've heard of that as a good method for worldbuilding."

That method is so overdone it's part of a list of questions ..."

I've read the same thing. A Writing Excuses episode talked about this very subject.

Clinton wrote: "Cheryle, that's awesome that your taking the criticism and making a better book. I had the hardest time, when I first started, taking suggestions and criticism. Now, it's an invaluable took."

Yep, it was hard for me at first, too. I wanted everyone to love reading my book as much as I loved writing it. But, since the criticism was constructive and not mean in any way, I quickly realized I could use it to improve my writing and publish a better product next time. And, the good thing was that there were a lot of positive comments as well, which made the less favourable ones more palatable.

Cheryl wrote: "Clinton wrote: "Cheryle, that's awesome that your taking the criticism and making a better book. I had the hardest time, when I first started, taking suggestions and criticism. Now, it's an invalua..."

You know you have something special when people have great things to say, positive things, but let you know how to make it THAT much better. I have several beta readers who do that, I like sitting down and talking to them a out what they enjoyed and what they're thinking about the characters and story.

Marc wrote: "Simon R. Green writes many of this sort, if you know of any others let me know so I can avoid them."

The book I'm referring to is Across the Face of the World by Russell Kirkpatrick. It's the first book in The Fire of Heaven trilogy. 670 pages and most of that description after description after description of the world and very little character development.

Cheryl wrote: "Marc wrote: "Simon R. Green writes many of this sort, if you know of any others let me know so I can avoid them."

The book I'm referring to is Across the Face of the World by Russel..."

I think this also needs to be balanced. I've read books that were the opposite extreme as well... Wizard and Glass by Stephen King is like that. The book is *so* heavy on character development, that you almost forget what is going on in the book. And it gets dreadfully boring in certain spots.

Thomas wrote: "Keryl wrote: "Gaming is a good start for imagination building, and for understanding what all needs to be in place for a properly functioning world.

The problem is, a lot of people who start off g..."

Good to hear.

The seeds of my characters and little bits of basic back story come from characters my buddies and I gamed with back in college. We were playing a game based on Amber, which was entirely free form, no character sheets, no dice, basically it was an weekly, organized improv session.

That was a whole lot of fun.

Writing the book was, too.

Cheryl wrote: "Marc wrote: "Simon R. Green writes many of this sort, if you know of any others let me know so I can avoid them."

The book I'm referring to is Across the Face of the World by Russel..."

Oh no! There's a title going on my not to be read list. I gave up books that were primarily description about the time I started reading Anne Rice in ninth grade.

I don't want need to hack through the descriptions with a machete to find the plot.

Hell, I don't want to have to hunt for the plot period. I like it front and center, populated with spectacular characters.

Thomas wrote: "Cheryl wrote: "Marc wrote: "Simon R. Green writes many of this sort, if you know of any others let me know so I can avoid them."

The book I'm referring to is [book:Across the Face of the World|105..."

Sometimes I would rather have heavy character development, depends how the author does it. "Wizard and Glass" was great for me, it gave a lot of insight in Roland. The plot was not heavy but I don't think it was supposed to be in that case.

Keryl wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Keryl wrote: "Gaming is a good start for imagination building, and for understanding what all needs to be in place for a properly functioning world.

The problem is, a lot of people ..."

Is it difficult to write characters that were played by other people? I've heard from writers/gamers who say nailing the personalities can be hard because they were originally brought to life by other people. The same would go for continuing a story and characters some other author has given birth to and nourished over time. I'm sure without Jordan's notes, Sanderson would have found it at least a bit difficult to finish the "Wheel of Time".