Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

°ä³ó±ð°ù²â±ô’s comments from the More than Just a Rating group.

I think your post sums up the best parts of the other thread pretty well, actually, and furthers the discussion. Iow, thank you so much for your insights!

When you read in a review that the characters are 'likeable' what do you expect when you meet them?

If you use the term in your review, what do you mean by it?

This question inspired by a thread in the SFFBC group:
/topic/show/...

I'm glad to see y'all still trying to help each other!

Great tips, thank you!

I don't understand. Do you mean an excerpt from a full-length work? Like maybe a sample? Or do you mean something more like "flash fiction" which is a very short story?

I would not pay for excerpts or samples.
I do have a subscription to free flash fiction but I never get around to reading the stories they send me.

Lately I've been trying to think more about names of characters. Right now I'm reading a short story, time travel SF, and one of the characters is named Heloise. Unusual name; probably chosen for a reason other than 'it sounds cool.' If I had trouble writing a review for this story, especially if it were a full book, I might explore the names the author chose for his characters.

Also, just a thought I've been musing on, it does seem like authors who choose their characters' names with care still forget that it's generally the *parents* of the characters who chose those names. Sometime, in some other discussion group, I want to explore why Hermione's muggle parents gave her that name, because I'm pretty sure Rowling chose all of her characters' names *very* carefully.

Sometimes it's difficult to pin anything down about why a book was good or not so good. Or it's difficult to articulate, to find the words, to express the feelings the book evokes. But of course we want to say something, and we probably also want to think about the book a little more carefully. So what extra tidbits could be considered?

Another good point.

You make good points. Still, all things considered, I'd be happier/ more satisfied if I could rate more of the books I read higher, and I imagine most people would.

Killer of Dreams wrote: "...I finished changing all my ratings to my strict rating system and I have 0 five star books, 18 four star books, 60 three star books, 75 two star books, and 31 one star books�.."
I hope you figure out a way to stop wasting your time on bad books and find more excellent ones!

I think maybe you shouldn't use Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ' metric of "I liked it" "it was amazing" etc. I think you should develop your own. For example, I try to reserve five star ratings for books that I found almost perfectly enjoyable, thoughtful, etc... *and* are also books that I would recommend widely, that have a more universal appeal.

Rate a book by something else. For example, how glad are you that you read it? One star - complete waste of time, five stars, plan to reread several more times. Or, for example, how much would I be willing to pay for this book? Or, for example, how likely am I to reread it? Or recommend it? Or *remember* it and think about it, maybe talk about ideas from it....

In tough cases like this, I sometimes just skip the star ratings, and rely on my review to speak for itself.

In this particular case, though, I think you might be a little too harsh. If you think about a book after you close it, if it gives you ideas to ponder, and brings joy to your spirit, and satisfaction to your cognition, then it was definitely a valuable read for you. And therefore you should rate it more highly... never mind the 'tediousness' of some parts.

Also, have you defined what you want your star ratings to do? Are they signals to the people who are considering whether to read the book? Or are they directly for you, so you can have a record? Maybe you're just interested in statistics (what percentage of books you read earn five stars...) or maybe you want to signal to yourself (that this book might be worth a reread...).

All those functions could be met by careful reviews and by creative shelving... you do not need to rate any books, really.

Still, to answer your most direct question with a direct answer: no, I do not think you are too harsh. Many of think that very few books should get a five star rating.

:smile:

That is indeed a tough one. Another reason to write reviews. I've given an author lower stars for their works that aren't their best, even though they are wonderful books and if they'd been written by someone else, they'd get full marks. So I know exactly what you're talking about... and the only solution besides writing a review is to give absolutely almost no five star reviews, as you say above.

Good conversation; I agree we want to do our best and it's definitely interesting to ponder & to discuss. Thank you for a good topic!

Not wittering, Raymond, you make excellent points.
Nothing has truly universal appeal.

I just can't help but think of all the books we're supposed to read for school that are called 'classics' and considered so very valuable. So, I guess I'm thinking mostly about the fact that there different metrics, as you suggest.

To get a bit more specific, there's the genius of creativity, of fresh ideas or at least fresh ways of exploring ideas. There's the skill of putting the words down to say what you meant to say in a way that engages the reader and gets them involved in thinking about the ideas. There's the development of the characters that pretty much every reader claims to need to believe in, that should come alive for the reader even if from another time or of another culture. There's the sheer enjoyment a book can provide, either by being a thrilling adventure, a heart-warming love story, an illuminating science primer... Etc. etc.

I, personally, think that if I give a book five stars, you should seriously consider reading it. You might only give it three stars yourself, but I can't imagine that you'd regret reading it, and it might 'broaden your horizons' as they say. And vice versa... I would probably benefit from reading outside my normal interests by looking at others' highest rated books.

Otoh, I *also* totally agree with you that some readers throw out stars like confetti and some books attract exuberant fans... certainly not all five-star ratings mean anything.... *even if* they have reviews attached!

Yes, it would be nice to have a system orderly like yours, Reforming. I sincerely admire that you've found a definition for the stars that works for you.

But I have to admit I'm more susceptible to the chaos Raymond mentions. My ratings just aren't consistently applied. Except, I do *try* to use five stars only for books that I think have more universal appeal.

It is, isn't it? Hence, this group. :)

I've heard that some ppl don't rate at all, but *just* review.
I couldn't do that. Ratings are flawed and also insufficient, but they do give us a clue to use in some situations.

Rereading a book is a separate decision for me. In the very broad sense, I'd pretty much agree with you.

However, there are books like reference books, craft or cooking books, that are amazing and deserve five stars, but I haven't even read them entirely once, much less reread. For example.

Also there are books that aren't really all that good, that I can't honestly say are worth more than three stars, but just do something special for me when I'm in a certain mood or something like that, and I may reread them several times.

Also, of course, there are lots of fantastic books that I'd love to reread if I had time, but there are new shiny fantastic books coming out all the time and they deserve my reading, too.

I do try to talk about reread potential in my review but I should more often. At least I do have a shelf/ tag that says "to-enjoy-again."

Good to know, thank you!

Not sure where this scrap of paper came from, but in an effort to winnow files, here we go:

*Questions New Critics Ask:*

1. What parts of the story or poem seem most significant?
....a) Situation
....b) Language
....c) Characters
2. What formal structures of the text encourage the reader to look at it that way?
3. Do certain situations, symbolism, or motifs occur?
4. What parallels can the reader discover with other texts?
5. What contrasts can the reader discover?
6. What large patterns occur? For example, if you were mapping the piece of literature what were the major pieces? (Climax, etc.)
7. What themes are highlighted by the patterns you have identified?
8. How do the form and the theme relate (connect)?