Manny's Reviews > القرآن الكريم
القرآن الكريم
by
by

Manny's review
bookshelves: to-read, linguistics-and-philosophy, why-not-call-it-poetry, transcendent-experiences, islam-and-arabic
Mar 28, 2011
bookshelves: to-read, linguistics-and-philosophy, why-not-call-it-poetry, transcendent-experiences, islam-and-arabic
Have other people noticed that the Qur'an is listed here as being by Allah, whereas the Bible is by "Anonymous"? If I were a Christian, I think that would leave me feeling just a little annoyed.
_________________________________________
Since I posted this review, the entry has been changed, and the Qur'an is now also listed as being by "Anonymous"!
Well, whoever did that is a braver man or woman than I am. I admire your chutzpah. So to speak.
_________________________________________
And now it's "Allah" again!
My impression is that the Muslims and the Infidels are pretty evenly matched here. Looks like it'll be a close game.
_________________________________________
Mere days later, and now we're back to "Anonymous"!
I'm particularly impressed by the good sportsmanship both sides are displaying. Who says a religious war can't be carried out in a civilized and courteous manner?
_________________________________________
In a surprise move, the author has now been changed yet again to 'ALLAH "the creator" (As believed in Islam)'. Match that if you can, Infidels!
_________________________________________
"Anonymous" once more, but to be honest it seems rather unimaginative. Come on, Infidels, you can come up with something better than this, can't you? What would Dawkins do?
_________________________________________
Back to "Allah" again. I clicked on His page and was immediately confronted with some interesting options. I could become a fan! (I was surprised to see that Allah didn't have any fans. Evidently I'd been misinformed). I was also asked if He had a blog, and on reading further discovered that
Oh, and by the way He doesn't have any upcoming events either. Is this correct, or merely a reflection of the fact that He exists outside of space and time?
_________________________________________
Ho hum... "Anonymous" is back. He/she has written a whole lot more books than Allah, but also lacks fans. Well, that's one thing they have in common...
_________________________________________
Flash update: the author has now been changed to "God"!
This boldly ecumenical move impresses me. God, I learn from His Homepage, is the author not only of the Quran but also of The Gospels of Jesus (KJV) with Search Every Verse Navigation, Optimized for E-Readers, where He is credited as the author and King James as the translator. He has not written any other books. Well, I've never pretended to understand theology, but I recognize new thinking when I see it. I hope someone more competent than I am is already preparing an exegesis.
The page ends with the following rather intriguing prayer:
I'm disappointed to say that we've now got "Anonymous" again. Whoever did that should be ashamed of themselves. "God" was inspired, this is just dull.
What other possible candidates could there be? Muhammad (PBUH)? The Angel Gabriel? Abu Bakr? Muhammad (PBUH), Bakr, Uthman and Hafsa? We need some fresh ideas here.
_________________________________________
After several months of inactivity, we have another change, but it was worth waiting for: "Allâh (God Almighty)".
Brilliant! Isn't that circumflex just to die for?
_________________________________________
The Infidels, with their characteristic rapier wit, have changed the author back to "Anonymous". Sorry, but I am not impressed. And don't give me that ŷ Policy crap. Plenty of holy books are not listed as being by Anonymous, for example The Book of Mormon and The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I look forward to seeing the Muslims' next move - I think they have the initiative.
_________________________________________
The Muslims score again with "ALLAH" (all caps), who has also written Study the Noble Qur'an Word-for-Word Volume 2 and Study the Noble Qur'an Word-for-Word Volume 3. Mysteriously, there is no Volume 1. ALLAH has three quotes, of which the first is "لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الل" ("There is no god but ALLAH and Mohammad is his prophet").
Now that's class. Okay, Infidels, let's see if you can change the author to something that's not yet another "Anonymous". I dare you. I double dare you.
_________________________________________
Boo! A few days later, and "Anonymous" is back. Honestly, it's enough to make you want to convert to Islam.
_________________________________________
Allah has returned again, but in a confusingly different form! This time, I found He was only the author of the Qur'an and had two fans, Nabila and Tarek. I decided that it was prudent to become a fan as well.
I checked to see which authors were like Allah, and was startled to see that the list included Alexandre Dumas and Italo Calvino. I'm sure it's greatly to their credit.
_________________________________________
That didn't last long. Notgettingenough, whose opinions I greatly respect, felt that it was inappropriate for me to be a fan of Allah. On reconsideration, I agree with her. I have cancelled my brief fanship and hope that both parties will understand it was an honest mistake.
_________________________________________
The Infidels only have one idea, and here it is again. Sigh...
_________________________________________
The Muslims are back, and score another fine goal with "الله". That's "Allah" in Arabic script for all you people who can't be bothered to check it on Google Translate.
Contrary to what certain skeptics may say, religious belief appears to give you imagination. Go Islam! !الله أكبر
_________________________________________
Without waiting for the Infidels to reply, the Muslims score again with "الله جلَّ جلاله". The person responsible has even created a cool avatar for His homepage. Nice work!
Admit it, Infidels: you have been comprehensively outplayed here. The classiest thing to do would be to have some suitable representative come forward and formally concede. That might at least win you back some respect.
_________________________________________
The Infidels refuse to admit defeat, and come back for the ninth time (I counted) with the single move they know how to make. Though, confusingly, the title of the book is now given only in Arabic script.
If it's an attempt at a compromise solution, I very much doubt that the Muslims will buy it. Watch this space.
_________________________________________
I presume that the Infidels' peace overture was scornfully rejected. They have retaliated by changing the title to Roman script only, even removing the apostrophe.
Cheeky! This flagrantly provocative gesture will surely not go unpunished.
_________________________________________
After 40 days of inactivity (significant or what?) the Muslims strike back with another "Allah". I suspect that the move is deeper than it looks, since His new homepage contains a long quote in Arabic referring to several passages in the Qur'an. Maybe someone better acquainted with these matters can explain it to the rest of us?
_________________________________________
A little more than a day later, it's "Anonymous" again.
I think the Infidels have a home side advantage here, which makes me admire the brave and resourceful Muslim hackers all the more. Come on Islam! You can beat those security measures!
_________________________________________
"Allah" has returned, and this time after only 21 days away! It looks like the Muslims have recovered from their unexpected loss of form.
Now, the question is how long they can keep possession. Both sides are demonstrating extraordinary tenacity in this long-drawn-out conflict! Quite inspiring to all us wishy-washy agnostics sitting on the sidelines...
_________________________________________
The pattern from last time repeats: "Allah" lasts less than a day, and is quickly set back to "Anonymous".
It's no good making excuses any more. The romantic in me wants the exciting, creative Muslims to win, but the facts are more than obvious: however they've managed it, the grimly humorless Infidels have taken their game to a new level. Over the last couple of months, they've been in charge 95% of the time.
Muslims, you need to figure out what the Infidels are doing and stop them. It's as simple as that.
_________________________________________
I was about to despair, but Allah is back! Though I am surprised to see that He still only has two fans, the ever-faithful Nabila and Tarek. Truly, their reward will be great.
I do wonder what thoughts Amazon have on this vital question. Which way could the different options push sales in the Muslim world? I imagine they have top analysts crunching the numbers as I write.
_________________________________________
Incredible but true: the Infidels have finally come up with a new idea! The author of the Qur'an is now given as "A".
Who is A, I hear you ask? I haven't the slightest notion. The one slim lead we're given is that A has also co-authored Jamba Juice Power with Kirk Perron - possibly a minor prophet, but, to be honest, I'm clutching at straws here.
I don't dare predict what might happen next. Stay tuned.
_________________________________________
"A" lasted mere hours, and now it's Allah again. For people who haven't yet looked at His Homepage, there is some interesting theological information:
gender: male
genre: Religion
influences: Almighty Yahweh, Jesus Christ
Oh, and He has now acquired a third fan, Esraa.
MJ claims to have tracked down the hackers. Kyle, Fil and Zain (if you are indeed the people responsible), please take a bow!
_________________________________________
An hour after the post above, Abbey and Amritorupa swear that the author was briefly changed to "A Nonny Mouse" - but it only lasted a few minutes before reverting to Allah.
I have never seen so much activity. Has a fatwa been issued? Are Amazon hoping to boost sales of the new Q'indle?
_________________________________________
And another hour later, it's Anonymous.
Whatever is going on? Is it the end of the world? I have consulted the Book of Revelation, but all I can find is 22:10:
_________________________________________
Yesterday, I started reading Richard Burton's translation of the Arabian Nights, and this morning I see that Allah has returned! I must quote Burton's wonderful opening lines:
_________________________________________
The Muslims are having a good week, and Allah (the most merciful, the most magnificent) is now in correct Arabic script again! If you cut and paste into Google Translate and click on the loudspeaker icon, you can even hear how it's pronounced.
_________________________________________
There is no Majesty and there is no Might save in Allah the Glorious, the Great! (I understand from Richard Burton that this is the polite Islamic equivalent of our own "Jesus H. Christ!") We're back to Anonymous.
Come on Infidels, you're boring us all to death. But I just know you can do better. Raise your game and make your fellow-atheists proud of their lack of belief!
_________________________________________
Allah has returned to ŷ, and has yet again reorganized His homepage! The opening at any rate looks familiar:

But a little further down, I found this:

I'm sorry, it's more responsibility than I can handle. Someone else will have to take care of it.
_________________________________________
And the new author is A... a... a... nonymous. Don't know why, but I just can't stop yawning today. Must have stayed up too late or something.
_________________________________________
Looking at the Librarian Edits Page is almost scary. While I was asleep, the author was first changed to "كلام الله جمعه عثمان بن عفان" by Wafa, and then to "Allah الله" by Anwaar. All in all, there are 87 pages of edits.
I hope someone is archiving this priceless cultural document, which surely contains enough material for at least two doctoral dissertations...
_________________________________________
An hour later, it's briefly flipped back to "Anonymous" before changing yet again to "'الله aka Allah", and we're now up to 89 pages of edits.
I see it's going to be Another Of Those Days. I should have guessed as much when I saw on Yahoo News that a two-headed calf had been born, a rain of frogs had occurred, and Lady Gaga had been photographed wearing a sensible outfit with flat shoes...
_________________________________________
It's all I can do to keep up. Since it'll probably change even before I've finished posting, here's a screenshot I saved from the current version of Allah's Homepage:

_________________________________________
Back to Anonymous. Though now I don't know who to root for, since it appears that some Infidels have started ironically supporting Allah. I wish theology was less confusing.
_________________________________________
Allah has returned once more! I immediately click to His new Homepage, and find a book ad with the title Earth Is In Dire Trouble.
Just a coincidence, I suppose.
_________________________________________
Alhamdulillah! (الحمد لله�; one of the many useful expressions I have learned from Richard Burton). The Infidels once again change the author to Anonymous, but Islam's ever-vigilant cyberwarriors immediately change it back, even using "Allah Almighty" to show that they, at least, possess imagination and a sense of fun.
I apologize to my atheist friends for my obvious partiality, mais c'est plus fort que moi.
_________________________________________
(after taking a break from my reporting duties)
ALLAH (ALL-CAPS) IS BACK! GABRIEL AND MUHAMMAD (PBUH) ARE ALSO CREDITED! TAKE THAT, INFIDELS!
_________________________________________
Anonymous returns, but with an interesting new twist: he (He?) is now credited as "Speaker". In other words, the Qur'an was dictated, not by Allah, but by someone else.
I do not pretend to understand these theological subtleties at any but the most superficial level. All the same, I feel I should remind the person who made the change that this seems uncomfortably close to the idea which got Mr. Rushdie into so much trouble a few years ago.
_________________________________________
I just stumbled across . At risk of repeating myself, it is entirely inappropriate that this person should be credited with the authorship of the Qur'an.
_________________________________________
Since I posted this review, the entry has been changed, and the Qur'an is now also listed as being by "Anonymous"!
Well, whoever did that is a braver man or woman than I am. I admire your chutzpah. So to speak.
_________________________________________
And now it's "Allah" again!
My impression is that the Muslims and the Infidels are pretty evenly matched here. Looks like it'll be a close game.
_________________________________________
Mere days later, and now we're back to "Anonymous"!
I'm particularly impressed by the good sportsmanship both sides are displaying. Who says a religious war can't be carried out in a civilized and courteous manner?
_________________________________________
In a surprise move, the author has now been changed yet again to 'ALLAH "the creator" (As believed in Islam)'. Match that if you can, Infidels!
_________________________________________
"Anonymous" once more, but to be honest it seems rather unimaginative. Come on, Infidels, you can come up with something better than this, can't you? What would Dawkins do?
_________________________________________
Back to "Allah" again. I clicked on His page and was immediately confronted with some interesting options. I could become a fan! (I was surprised to see that Allah didn't have any fans. Evidently I'd been misinformed). I was also asked if He had a blog, and on reading further discovered that
As a librarian, you can create a blog for this author even if they're not on ŷ by adding the feed URL (Atom or RSS) of a blog they keep elsewhere. This will make summaries of their blog posts available here.Unfortunately, I don't know of any blog kept by Allah, but if I discover one I'll make sure I use this feature.
Oh, and by the way He doesn't have any upcoming events either. Is this correct, or merely a reflection of the fact that He exists outside of space and time?
_________________________________________
Ho hum... "Anonymous" is back. He/she has written a whole lot more books than Allah, but also lacks fans. Well, that's one thing they have in common...
_________________________________________
Flash update: the author has now been changed to "God"!
This boldly ecumenical move impresses me. God, I learn from His Homepage, is the author not only of the Quran but also of The Gospels of Jesus (KJV) with Search Every Verse Navigation, Optimized for E-Readers, where He is credited as the author and King James as the translator. He has not written any other books. Well, I've never pretended to understand theology, but I recognize new thinking when I see it. I hope someone more competent than I am is already preparing an exegesis.
The page ends with the following rather intriguing prayer:
Is this you? Let us know. If not, help out and invite God to ŷ._________________________________________
I'm disappointed to say that we've now got "Anonymous" again. Whoever did that should be ashamed of themselves. "God" was inspired, this is just dull.
What other possible candidates could there be? Muhammad (PBUH)? The Angel Gabriel? Abu Bakr? Muhammad (PBUH), Bakr, Uthman and Hafsa? We need some fresh ideas here.
_________________________________________
After several months of inactivity, we have another change, but it was worth waiting for: "Allâh (God Almighty)".
Brilliant! Isn't that circumflex just to die for?
_________________________________________
The Infidels, with their characteristic rapier wit, have changed the author back to "Anonymous". Sorry, but I am not impressed. And don't give me that ŷ Policy crap. Plenty of holy books are not listed as being by Anonymous, for example The Book of Mormon and The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I look forward to seeing the Muslims' next move - I think they have the initiative.
_________________________________________
The Muslims score again with "ALLAH" (all caps), who has also written Study the Noble Qur'an Word-for-Word Volume 2 and Study the Noble Qur'an Word-for-Word Volume 3. Mysteriously, there is no Volume 1. ALLAH has three quotes, of which the first is "لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الل" ("There is no god but ALLAH and Mohammad is his prophet").
Now that's class. Okay, Infidels, let's see if you can change the author to something that's not yet another "Anonymous". I dare you. I double dare you.
_________________________________________
Boo! A few days later, and "Anonymous" is back. Honestly, it's enough to make you want to convert to Islam.
_________________________________________
Allah has returned again, but in a confusingly different form! This time, I found He was only the author of the Qur'an and had two fans, Nabila and Tarek. I decided that it was prudent to become a fan as well.
I checked to see which authors were like Allah, and was startled to see that the list included Alexandre Dumas and Italo Calvino. I'm sure it's greatly to their credit.
_________________________________________
That didn't last long. Notgettingenough, whose opinions I greatly respect, felt that it was inappropriate for me to be a fan of Allah. On reconsideration, I agree with her. I have cancelled my brief fanship and hope that both parties will understand it was an honest mistake.
_________________________________________
The Infidels only have one idea, and here it is again. Sigh...
_________________________________________
The Muslims are back, and score another fine goal with "الله". That's "Allah" in Arabic script for all you people who can't be bothered to check it on Google Translate.
Contrary to what certain skeptics may say, religious belief appears to give you imagination. Go Islam! !الله أكبر
_________________________________________
Without waiting for the Infidels to reply, the Muslims score again with "الله جلَّ جلاله". The person responsible has even created a cool avatar for His homepage. Nice work!
Admit it, Infidels: you have been comprehensively outplayed here. The classiest thing to do would be to have some suitable representative come forward and formally concede. That might at least win you back some respect.
_________________________________________
The Infidels refuse to admit defeat, and come back for the ninth time (I counted) with the single move they know how to make. Though, confusingly, the title of the book is now given only in Arabic script.
If it's an attempt at a compromise solution, I very much doubt that the Muslims will buy it. Watch this space.
_________________________________________
I presume that the Infidels' peace overture was scornfully rejected. They have retaliated by changing the title to Roman script only, even removing the apostrophe.
Cheeky! This flagrantly provocative gesture will surely not go unpunished.
_________________________________________
After 40 days of inactivity (significant or what?) the Muslims strike back with another "Allah". I suspect that the move is deeper than it looks, since His new homepage contains a long quote in Arabic referring to several passages in the Qur'an. Maybe someone better acquainted with these matters can explain it to the rest of us?
_________________________________________
A little more than a day later, it's "Anonymous" again.
I think the Infidels have a home side advantage here, which makes me admire the brave and resourceful Muslim hackers all the more. Come on Islam! You can beat those security measures!
_________________________________________
"Allah" has returned, and this time after only 21 days away! It looks like the Muslims have recovered from their unexpected loss of form.
Now, the question is how long they can keep possession. Both sides are demonstrating extraordinary tenacity in this long-drawn-out conflict! Quite inspiring to all us wishy-washy agnostics sitting on the sidelines...
_________________________________________
The pattern from last time repeats: "Allah" lasts less than a day, and is quickly set back to "Anonymous".
It's no good making excuses any more. The romantic in me wants the exciting, creative Muslims to win, but the facts are more than obvious: however they've managed it, the grimly humorless Infidels have taken their game to a new level. Over the last couple of months, they've been in charge 95% of the time.
Muslims, you need to figure out what the Infidels are doing and stop them. It's as simple as that.
_________________________________________
I was about to despair, but Allah is back! Though I am surprised to see that He still only has two fans, the ever-faithful Nabila and Tarek. Truly, their reward will be great.
I do wonder what thoughts Amazon have on this vital question. Which way could the different options push sales in the Muslim world? I imagine they have top analysts crunching the numbers as I write.
_________________________________________
Incredible but true: the Infidels have finally come up with a new idea! The author of the Qur'an is now given as "A".
Who is A, I hear you ask? I haven't the slightest notion. The one slim lead we're given is that A has also co-authored Jamba Juice Power with Kirk Perron - possibly a minor prophet, but, to be honest, I'm clutching at straws here.
I don't dare predict what might happen next. Stay tuned.
_________________________________________
"A" lasted mere hours, and now it's Allah again. For people who haven't yet looked at His Homepage, there is some interesting theological information:
gender: male
genre: Religion
influences: Almighty Yahweh, Jesus Christ
Oh, and He has now acquired a third fan, Esraa.
MJ claims to have tracked down the hackers. Kyle, Fil and Zain (if you are indeed the people responsible), please take a bow!
_________________________________________
An hour after the post above, Abbey and Amritorupa swear that the author was briefly changed to "A Nonny Mouse" - but it only lasted a few minutes before reverting to Allah.
I have never seen so much activity. Has a fatwa been issued? Are Amazon hoping to boost sales of the new Q'indle?
_________________________________________
And another hour later, it's Anonymous.
Whatever is going on? Is it the end of the world? I have consulted the Book of Revelation, but all I can find is 22:10:
And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.I suppose that may be a warning against blocking changes to authorship attributions on ŷ, but I'm not at all sure.
_________________________________________
Yesterday, I started reading Richard Burton's translation of the Arabian Nights, and this morning I see that Allah has returned! I must quote Burton's wonderful opening lines:
PRAISE BE TO ALLAH - THE BENEFICENT KING - THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE - LORD OF THE THREE WORLDS - WHO SET UP THE FIRMAMENT WITHOUT PILLARS IN ITS STEAD - AND WHO STRETCHED OUT THE EARTH EVEN AS A BED - AND GRACE, AND PRAYER-BLESSING BE UPON OUR LORD MOHAMMED - LORD OF APOSTOLIC MEN - AND UPON HIS FAMILY AND COMPANION TRAIN -PRAYER AND BLESSINGS ENDURING AND GRACE WHICH UNTO THE DAY OF DOOM SHALL REMAIN - AMEN! - O THOU OF THE THREE WORLDS SOVEREIGN!I was a bit puzzled by the bed, but after a couple of chapters realized that it must be a "carpet-bed", presumably some kind of Middle Eastern futon. Just in case you were also wondering.
_________________________________________
The Muslims are having a good week, and Allah (the most merciful, the most magnificent) is now in correct Arabic script again! If you cut and paste into Google Translate and click on the loudspeaker icon, you can even hear how it's pronounced.
_________________________________________
There is no Majesty and there is no Might save in Allah the Glorious, the Great! (I understand from Richard Burton that this is the polite Islamic equivalent of our own "Jesus H. Christ!") We're back to Anonymous.
Come on Infidels, you're boring us all to death. But I just know you can do better. Raise your game and make your fellow-atheists proud of their lack of belief!
_________________________________________
Allah has returned to ŷ, and has yet again reorganized His homepage! The opening at any rate looks familiar:

But a little further down, I found this:

I'm sorry, it's more responsibility than I can handle. Someone else will have to take care of it.
_________________________________________
And the new author is A... a... a... nonymous. Don't know why, but I just can't stop yawning today. Must have stayed up too late or something.
_________________________________________
Looking at the Librarian Edits Page is almost scary. While I was asleep, the author was first changed to "كلام الله جمعه عثمان بن عفان" by Wafa, and then to "Allah الله" by Anwaar. All in all, there are 87 pages of edits.
I hope someone is archiving this priceless cultural document, which surely contains enough material for at least two doctoral dissertations...
_________________________________________
An hour later, it's briefly flipped back to "Anonymous" before changing yet again to "'الله aka Allah", and we're now up to 89 pages of edits.
I see it's going to be Another Of Those Days. I should have guessed as much when I saw on Yahoo News that a two-headed calf had been born, a rain of frogs had occurred, and Lady Gaga had been photographed wearing a sensible outfit with flat shoes...
_________________________________________
It's all I can do to keep up. Since it'll probably change even before I've finished posting, here's a screenshot I saved from the current version of Allah's Homepage:

_________________________________________
Back to Anonymous. Though now I don't know who to root for, since it appears that some Infidels have started ironically supporting Allah. I wish theology was less confusing.
_________________________________________
Allah has returned once more! I immediately click to His new Homepage, and find a book ad with the title Earth Is In Dire Trouble.
Just a coincidence, I suppose.
_________________________________________
Alhamdulillah! (الحمد لله�; one of the many useful expressions I have learned from Richard Burton). The Infidels once again change the author to Anonymous, but Islam's ever-vigilant cyberwarriors immediately change it back, even using "Allah Almighty" to show that they, at least, possess imagination and a sense of fun.
I apologize to my atheist friends for my obvious partiality, mais c'est plus fort que moi.
_________________________________________
(after taking a break from my reporting duties)
ALLAH (ALL-CAPS) IS BACK! GABRIEL AND MUHAMMAD (PBUH) ARE ALSO CREDITED! TAKE THAT, INFIDELS!
_________________________________________
Anonymous returns, but with an interesting new twist: he (He?) is now credited as "Speaker". In other words, the Qur'an was dictated, not by Allah, but by someone else.
I do not pretend to understand these theological subtleties at any but the most superficial level. All the same, I feel I should remind the person who made the change that this seems uncomfortably close to the idea which got Mr. Rushdie into so much trouble a few years ago.
_________________________________________
I just stumbled across . At risk of repeating myself, it is entirely inappropriate that this person should be credited with the authorship of the Qur'an.
1702 likes · Like
�
flag
Sign into ŷ to see if any of your friends have read
القرآن الكريم.
Sign In »
Reading Progress
Finished Reading
( Edition)
March 28, 2011
– Shelved
March 28, 2011
– Shelved as:
linguistics-and-philosophy
March 28, 2011
– Shelved as:
why-not-call-it-poetry
April 23, 2011
– Shelved as:
transcendent-experiences
July 9, 2013
– Shelved as:
to-read
September 30, 2013
– Shelved as:
the-goodreads-experience
( Edition)
September 30, 2013
– Shelved
( Edition)
January 15, 2015
– Shelved as:
islam-and-arabic
January 15, 2015
– Shelved as:
islam-and-arabic
( Edition)
Comments Showing 1-50 of 839 (839 new)
message 1:
by
Vinaya
(new)
Mar 28, 2011 06:00AM

reply
|
flag



True. The Qu'ran has remained unchanged since it was first organized. Muslims don't even count the Qu'ran as being holy unless it is written in Arabic. Besides that, there is only one translation of it.
The bible has gone through so many translations--in fact, they lost the original copy of the bible during the dark ages, or some time before the inquisition. And so many guys have taken books out and added books in that it really has no integrity as the word of God anymore--although I don't really care much though because I'm not a Christian. I think of the Bible as fiction.
So yeah, Qu'ran, by: Allah. The Bible, by: Man.
As for the Torah, I know nothing about that.

Wait- there was a single acknowledged "original" copy of the Bible? I never he..."
At one point in time, around when the Council of Nicea got together. Remember, it was written in Latin/Hebrew/Aramic/Greek. How many people could read, let alone read those languages? The Greek versions didn't even survive.


Which is why the Bible has that whole "Homosexuality is wrong" vs "Actually Jesus doesn't care about your sexuality at all he just wants you to be a good person" conflict going.
Sorry. I know this is none of my business, but as a Jew it's always kind of baffled me why Christians cling to a part of the Bible that contradicts their actual Savior's beliefs.

Whether or not he received the suras from an angel (we call them meleks in Bosnia) is another matter entirely.
Also (and this is a slight digression), as far as I know, the Bible can be freely touched and read by anyone, while there are very strict rules about touching, reading and even shelving the Qur'an.

Actually, that would be Abu Bakr, who actually WROTE the Qu'ran; Muhammad orally taught the word of god. His words were put into writing by Abu Bakr. So he's the granddaddy of ghostwriters!

Here is what Wikipedia says on it:
The oldest surviving Hebrew Bible manuscripts date to about the 2nd century BC (fragmentary), the oldest record of the complete text survives in Greek translation, dating to the 4th century (Codex Sinaiticus) and the oldest extant manuscripts of the vocalized Masoretic text upon which modern editions are based date to the 9th century AD.
They only have fragments of the original translation. I think the Bible was originally written in Hebrew. Then they translated it to Greek and Aramic because later on because many people didn't read or speak Hebrew. The oldest whole text copy is written in Greek. Then they translated it to Latin for Catholicism. So technically, they did 'loose' the original copy. I'm still wondering how that's possible.

Actually, that would be Abu Bakr, who actually WROTE the Qu'ran; Muhammad orally taught the word of god. His words were put into writing by A..."
Muhammad has a disturbing love life. That's all I have to say about him, no offense to any Muslims out there.

Actually, if I remember right, the Tanakh was written in Hebrew and Aramaic. The New Testament was supposed to have been written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Syriac, only that is largely speculative since the only indication of biblical text preceding the Greek Bible are the Dead Sea Scrolls. Again, the Greek translation is not necessarily the translation of the 'original' Bible. in fact, you'll find no theological scholar who would make a stand like that. It's the only surviving record of a unified Old and New Testament, but not necessarily the only one that ever existed. I'm going to stop discoursing on this now because a) I am disturbed by the amount of completely useless information I have stored in my brain on this subject, and b) most of it is not authoritative because I can't remember where I read this stuff, so I could be shooting fish in a barrel for all I know!

I wouldn't say that's useless knowledge. Now, my knowledge of Glee is absolutely useless. With historical knowledge of the bible, you might win Jeopardy. With Glee and general pop-culture trivia, not so much.


Otherwise, how can anyone explain the fact that Snooki, Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie are "authors" when they can't even string a sentence together?

that may be a typo, but from now on i'm going to refer to this book as the Boble!


Good point, Manny. It is odd.

Manny, applause.
As some stated earlier, both books were written by men inspired by God or the Holy Spirit-it differs.
Personally, I think its important to read the Quran if you want to understand Jihad and other Muslim extremists action. Unlike the bible that seems to have one universal law that trumps all other laws, the Quran doesnt.
The Bible: Love. Love. Love. Sure homosexuality might be frowned upon in some parts but you are also told that love trumps all. So while I understand the importance of religion in people's lives, I always frown upon those who claim to be against gays because the bible is against it. What's up with that? How about the part that says you should love?
Still, I try not to judge or try to change their mind.
The Quran: Sharia. Sharia. Sharia. Ha! I kid.
Disclaimer: The above are my humble opinions and interpretations of the bible.

Manny, applause.
As some stated earlier, both books were written by men inspired by God or the Holy Spirit-it ..."
I hope you kid. I think both books are just as bad. One says women are only worth half a man and the other says a woman is to serve her husband. Why are the big three religions so sexist?

And worse, why isn't there any official and specific mention to the sacred duty of making sandwiches? "To serve her husband" is just not detailed enough. :P

Right? That can mean so many things. Don't even get me started on gay marriage...so if two women are married technically they're both wives so who would they serve? And in the case of two men...well, the bible allows for so many loopholes. And what about transgendered people?

Manny, applause.
As some stated earlier, both books were written by men inspired by God or ..."
Well in the context you put it, then I'm inclined to say I am not kidding. Personally, I think the Quran is structured in a way that the information in it is not open to personal interpretation. Also, when you consider how shia Muslims revere Imams, then it is definitely not open to personal interpretation.
The bible however, clearly states, its up to you to digest information and interpret in a way that is good for your soul. Of course, I am paraphrasing, and this only adds to my point of view of its objectiveness.
I am a Christian amongst other things by the way and religion isnt one of the topics I can discuss objectively. I believe religion plays too strong a role in the formation of the self concept for deeply religious people to see through some things. I see nothing bad with either the bible or the Quran or any other religious body of work even though I may not agree with some doctrines they preach.
I think it may help to realize that some rules that were written centuries ago are not meant to be taken literally today. That was the major problem with the book where a guy said he was going to live according to the bible for a whole year.

Right? That can mean..."
Wow, what a dangerous slippery slope to go on.

At a certain time, women were property in both religions. That happens when you take text at literal interpretation. But you can't ignore that slavery and sexism existed in both. I won't say anything more because I know I'm bound to offend someone eventually. That's my luck on forums when I can't really express what I fully want to say.


I'm a proponent for people speaking their mind. However, personally, I feel religion is too personal of a topic and some people get ticked easily. So many of my friends that we started college with as religious people, left college Atheists. They were all quite deeply religious, Buddhist, Christians, Muslims and so on, but they sort of changed when they couldnt find the practical answers science thought them to look for.
The point is when we get together and they start trying to convince me the world originated from a bloody particle, it irritates the hell out of me. One friend in particular who is getting his PHD in Physics at USC seems set out to do this every time. Hiss.
At the end of the day, I think what matters is that a person is a GOOD person. Of course this can turn into a circus if we start on what exactly is the interpretation of Good, so I wont go there.

No, no, I'm flattered! As long as no one starts throwing Molotov cocktails, please go on as long as you want...

I am happy to debate all the "lost" Bible and the whole "censored" Bible issues. But when it comes to meaning, intent and interpretation of scripture - I'm outta here.
Mostly though, I'll be interested in hearing your perspective on the Qur'an as I've never read it, only parts of it.

Hehe. No, Cory and I are used to having these sort of conversations where our opinions are different. The world is more fun with differences yeah?! If everyone had the same opinion it would be super boringggg.

Just so you know TD, I'm no an atheist, so I don't necessarily believe in the whole world particle thing just like I find evolution ridiculous. But I'm not a Christian either.
I do believe in reincarnation--but that's about as far as I go, besides it fits in with science. And I do believe in aliens. So I really don't know where that puts me.
You know, I so used to dealing with trolls and horrible rude people online, I'm always putting up my guard. I keep forgetting that I'm dealing with normal people.
I have changed the author from Anonymous to Allah. I am sorry for this, but I think that it should be listed as being by Allah since "Allah" is the God who is worshipped by all Muslims around the world, and The Holly Quran is there book, and they believe that it was revealed by Allah, so they have the right to make that claim.
This shouldn't be a problem for Christians or Jews because the nature of the God in the Islamic theology is completely different to the Christian and the Jewish theology; therefore, when I say the Arabic world "Allah" it does not refer to the Jews' God or the Christians' God, it just refers to the God in the Islamic theology. Thus, as long as they do not believe in "Allah" (the God in the Islamic theology)it should't be a problem for them if the Holy Quran is listed as being by "Allah" or Anonymous.
Note: According to the Islamic theology, it should be 'revealed by Allah' because Allah is not an author.
This shouldn't be a problem for Christians or Jews because the nature of the God in the Islamic theology is completely different to the Christian and the Jewish theology; therefore, when I say the Arabic world "Allah" it does not refer to the Jews' God or the Christians' God, it just refers to the God in the Islamic theology. Thus, as long as they do not believe in "Allah" (the God in the Islamic theology)it should't be a problem for them if the Holy Quran is listed as being by "Allah" or Anonymous.
Note: According to the Islamic theology, it should be 'revealed by Allah' because Allah is not an author.

There is no Jews' God or Christians' God. They both serve the same God.
I dont see how the nature of God is different in Islam. That statement confuses me very much, sorry.
Are you interchanging God and Jesus Christ?

No matter what, there should be a distinction between an Anonymous author and an Unknown author. Anonymous tends to suggest that the author does not wish to have his identity revealed. Unknown means that we simply don't know who the author was.
Prometheus wrote: "Saying the author is Allah is forcing the claim that your god is true on every non-Muslim member on this site. "
I do not think that Muslims force that claim by saying this. They just attribute there own book to who is regarded as there God.
Any way, although I think that Muslims should have the right to write Allah as an author, I will not change the author of the Quran since the authors of the Bible and the Torah have been listed as Anonymous.
I do not think that Muslims force that claim by saying this. They just attribute there own book to who is regarded as there God.
Any way, although I think that Muslims should have the right to write Allah as an author, I will not change the author of the Quran since the authors of the Bible and the Torah have been listed as Anonymous.


Prometheus wrote: "Ahmad wrote: "Prometheus wrote: "Saying the author is Allah is forcing the claim that your god is true on every non-Muslim member on this site. "
I do not think that Muslims force that claim by sa..."
Saying the author is Muhammad peace be upon him is worse than saying the author is a nonymous.
The argument that Muhammad peace be upon him wrote the Quran is refuted many times in the Quran itself.
I do not think that Muslims force that claim by sa..."
Saying the author is Muhammad peace be upon him is worse than saying the author is a nonymous.
The argument that Muhammad peace be upon him wrote the Quran is refuted many times in the Quran itself.




Can you pl tell when historiography started and do you believe that all the events in the world has been duely recorded then and there.Would you require evidence for every statement or assertion.Let me also tell you that agreement and disagreement by some one does not affect the validity of truth, whether he being religious or un-religious.You also need to answer my question wheher these religious books can be called books at all or not!.I would also like to know whether ever you have studied Quran or other religious books.
