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Schedule



Week 1 (9/8-9/14): Part 1 Ch 1-4
Week 2 (9/15-9/21): Ch 5-8
Week 3 (9/22-9/28): Ch 9-11

Week 4 (9/29-10/5): Part 2; Ch 12-13
Week 5 (10/6-10/12): Ch 14-16
Week 6 (10/13-10/19): Ch 17-20
Week 7 (10/20-10/26): Break

Week 8 (10/27-11/2): Part 3; Ch 21-23
Week 9 (11/3-11/9): Ch 24-25

Week 10 (11/10-11/16): Part 4; Ch 28-28
Week 11 (11/17-11/23): Ch 29-30
Week 12 (11/24-11/30): Ch 31-33
Week 13 (12/1-12/7): Break

Week 14 (12/8-12/14): Part5; Ch 34-35
Week 15 (12/15-12/21): Ch 36-38
Week16 (12/22-12/28): Ch 39-End

Group:

Becky
Amber
Ellen
Zulfiya
Kristi
Sera
Joell

All discussions will be held in this thread. please use the "spoiler" function if you are talking about something not from the current week's reading.

Looks great! Thank you!

Count me in. I'd like to read this one with the group, too.

Thank you. I'm waiting for a copy to come in at the library. But if it's not here in the next few days, I'll just buy it.

Looking forward to reading with you guys again!

I'd like to join this discussion. Hope it's not too late!

Nope, glad to have you!!

Exciting! I dont make many forays into modern literature outside of scifi/fantasy, so I'm very much looking forward to this.

Just got my copy so will start reading today at the gym!

Week 1 (9/8-9/14): Part 1 Ch 1-4


Yay!!! We start discussing tomorrow!!!

Yay, indeed. I started reading yesterday!

I think the first chapters are very atmospheric (the pre-War situation), and there is an intrigue there as well. :-)

I think "atmospheric" is a good way of describing it so far. From the opera in Hungary to the party in Paris and life in school, the author does a great job of making me feel like I'm there. I love books that really transport you to another time and place.

I agree, I love the atmosphere...setting the stage and getting into the story. The Opera was beautiful.

I am finally done with this section. Beautiful and sad prose. And definitely there is a sense of foreboding. You can actually feel the world is on the brink of destruction and pain. I think one of the reasons why this section resonates with me so much is my immigration background. As a resident, I can relate to the feeling of being separated from something that is dear that comes to you in tastes, touches, and even smells.

Continuing the topic of the lyrical mood, I can boldly state it was nearly a revelation to read about the origin of the word 'compassion' in Hebrew. As a linguist I tend to pay attention to such things. ... rachmones, whose root was rechem, the Hebrew word for womb. Rachmones: a compassion as deep and as undeniable as what a mother felt for her child . The whole essence of humanity and humanism just in one word.

I just finished chapter 4 last night. How to describe what I feel? I agree, the authors ability to depict the scenes is amazing, and well-researched! I love how easily the book seems to flow from one language to the next, in one paragraph there can be snippits of four languages. I love that, it gives it such a *real* feel. It makes you feel so involved with the flow of Andras' travels.

I feel that the author has so far really captured the feel of Europe at this time. Andras sees the darkening clouds, but all around him people continue to live life grand- either refusing to see or not see at all the rapidly darkening storm. I just finished In the Garden of Beasts: Love, Terror, and an American Family in Hitler's Berlin so I'm very much in the mindset of watching the quiet but growing Nazi-problem. Sometimes I wondered if people were given to gaiety because somewhere, back in their minds, fear was so present.

I was so heartbroken for Andras about his scholarship, but I do hope Tibor makes it to Italy. I feel these things, but in the back of my mind I keep wondering what worse horrors are in store for them. As readers we know WWII is coming, and it leaves a weight on the mind as you read.

Week 2 (9/15-9/21): Ch 5-8

Andras continues to break my heart. Orringer does a great job in molding this character - from his intellectual capacity to his heart and soul. His devotion to his family, especially his brothers is to be revered. The other characters are a little flat (such as Claire M) but I have a feeling we will learn more about her as the story progresses.
I believe I like this story so much because Orringer makes Andras so realistic. His self-doubt and passion for his art are close to home.
Can't wait to continue reading . . .

The plot is thickening. The world is too small for Andras, and now he is naively and desperately in love. I really love the description of the cold months of autumn - the chill, the piercing wind, they are nearly tangible. And even the the smells are real.

I agree about the descriptions and the "feel" of everything. I'm not sure I buy the love for Mrs. M. It just seemed out of the blue and somehow out of character for someone so serious and focused.

Ellen wrote: "I agree about the descriptions and the "feel" of everything. I'm not sure I buy the love for Mrs. M. It just seemed out of the blue and somehow out of character for someone so serious and focused."

I think he is lonesome, and remember, his friends were teasing him about his virginity. And she was the only woman who actually acknowledged his presence. But yes, your point is valid, Ellen.

Agree. It just seemed more likely he'd fall for the actress or someone in the theatre. Also, I didn't get what made her so dazzling that it was love at first sight for him.

But I'm nitpicking... I think the book is good - so far, anyway.

Amber wrote: "I missed how Andras knew that Mme Morgenstern's mother was the letter's writer. Can anybody help me with this one?"

I'm not sure I remember... but wasn't it the address and the initial or initials?

The address, the initials, the facial features, her remark about her mother in Hungary ... all those things contributed to his 'enlightenment'. Well, how often do we make assumptions when we meet a person with the last name we know and the facial features we recognize that he might be a son or a daughter, or a father .. est. A little bit far-fetched, but it is still plausible.

I didn't think that his "love" is irrational. He is a terribly lonely, overwrought, and stressed young man. I think its natural that meeting someone Hungarian, kind, and beautiful turned him into a lovesick puppy. Its one of the first times he has really had a chance to relax around a woman... maybe one of the first times in a long time, look how nervous he got!

Plus, I dont think he loves her. He would say he did, but he is just lovesick, infatuated, and longing. I think it can evolve over the story to true love (wuv, twue wuv) where it is deeper and doesnt keep you up at nights, but I dont feel that at this time in the story its out of character.

I think he is just relieved to get to be himself, a foreign Jew, and a young man, for once.


Now, what did everyone think of Matya's impertinent letter! I love that Andras wrote him back in a cheeky manner but it was more like an older brother ribbing a younger brother and filled with love.

What are their ages? Do we know for sure? I remember him saying Matyas in his middle teens?

I thought Matya's letter made Andras more three dimensional. As someone with a lot of younger siblings, it seemed exactly the kind of thing I could picture one of them writing if I were in Andras' shoes and they were in Matya's. I thought Andras' response was so understanding and loving and so very real. Before then, I wasn't entirely sure what kind of person he was. Afterward, there was just no doubt he has a big heart and a lot of decency.

Week 3 (9/22-9/28): Ch 9-11

A very amorous section in the novel, and yet surprisingly sensual and believable. The nasty things are brewing in Paris, and what's more - you know that it is inevitable (anti-Jew groups specifically and the Holocaust in general). This actually makes us feel more alert, more perceptive about the upcoming danger and the small pleasures of life they are soon to lose. Some might say that this section is smarmy and unctuous and out of the historical context, but I think it is still a build-up for a bigger, devastating story of human loss and tragedy.

Ellen wrote: "Agree. It just seemed more likely he'd fall for the actress or someone in the theatre. Also, I didn't get what made her so dazzling that it was love at first sight for him.

But I'm nitpicking... I..."

I can totally see why he would fall for Mrs. M. She's a beautiful woman who acknowledges him and listens to him. Plus having someone who speaks your language makes them very alluring (I don't know if you have ever been away from the US and are drawn to other Americans where ever you go.)

QueenAmidala28 wrote: "Ellen wrote: "Agree. It just seemed more likely he'd fall for the actress or someone in the theatre. Also, I didn't get what made her so dazzling that it was love at first sight for him.

But I'm n..."

I am Russian residing in the USA, and once I heard a native Russian speaker at the provincial airport in Tulsa, and I had a strong temptation to talk to him. He was a total stranger, but I am also a stranger in a strange land, so I felt a strong gravitational pull simply to speak Russian and share the woes of the immigrant life (a successful and happy life, I would like to point out, but a cultural shock is a perpetual phenomenon). So, in my case, Andras is a character who powerfully resonates with me.

Доброе утро. Спасибо, что написали. Этот перевод, возможно, очень плохо, я прошу прощения. Иметь хороший день!

This is supposed to say: Good morning. Thanks for writing. Sorry for the bad translation.(for Zulfiya)

I have never lived in a foreign place, but I can imagine how it would feel to find another person who spoke your language! It would be such a relief, and would definitely male them more attractive, at least as a companion.

QueenAmidala28 wrote: "Доброе утро. Спасибо, что написали. Этот перевод, возможно, очень плохо, я прошу прощения. Иметь хороший день!

This is supposed to say: Good morning. Thanks for writing. Sorry for the bad translat..."


Thank you so much. The native language has an amazing healing power.

Kristi wrote: "I have never lived in a foreign place, but I can imagine how it would feel to find another person who spoke your language! It would be such a relief, and would definitely male them more attractive..."


It was definitely unexpected. You hardly ever expect to meet a person from your motherland somewhere in Tulsa, Oklahoma. You know, it is not a hub of the universe, and not even a cosmopolitan New York where Russians tend to flock. :-)

Week 4 (9/29-10/5): Part 2; Ch 12-13

Well, I am really getting attached to the book. It is mainly because of the ambiance and the historicity of the novel. And now we are dealing with darker messages and sinister plot twists. Lemarque is a tormented individual. On one hand, he hates the Jews (and this not hatred for the sake of hatred, it is the feeling of hatred driven by supremacy of his ethnicity). On the other hand, he is in love with Polaner in the time where homosexuality has not been accepted as one of many sides of human existence. And poor Andras is caught in the whirlpool of emotions, criticism, prejudice, danger, and loss.
And I actually like the chemistry between the siblings. It is as if they understand each other without verbalizing their thoughts. I am afraid we are for a heart-wrenching read.

... I was out of town for a wedding, and those girls ran me ragged! I'm catching up now though. In fact, I was lamost late for work today because I was reading at breakfast and totally lost track of time in chapter 11. The author just paints such images I know it will rend my heart when the war breaks out. I feel like I could reach out and scoop up the snow in Paris.

I too think that LeMarque is homosexual, and has feelings for Polaner. Do you think that his antipathy towards Jews is a result of being enthnocentric? or because he is facing these feelings about Polaner, and because he is uncomfortable with them, takes it out on Jews? Or both. So rarely are motivations one reason or another, but usually a combination.

I just finished Chapter 11 and my lunch break is over, curses! I was so angry with Andras just leaving her like that. I know rationally he was in a lot of pain, but cant he see that she is in pain too? I know he thinks she must not love him as much, but thats because he is infantile with the idea of love. He'll learn, he is just young and inexperienced.

I feel so connected to these characters. I desperately want to know Klara's secret. I want to tell Andras to run, run out of Europe, run for safety and take Klara and even that little snob Elisabet with them. Sigh, the author makes everything so real.

And I love the little discourses about French or Hungarian, I try to shape my mouth around the words (I took 8 years of German, so French is a bit lost on me), but it makes the narrative sit so heavy in your mouth, like you could chew on it. I feel that it opens the world up, make the characters human.

And I just finished Chapter 12, oh I am so crusehd for Polaner and Andras. I desperately hope he lives.

I got my copy from the library and it is already due back! I've read the first section of the book and the comments here. I agree the writing is wonderful and the staging being done by the author is great! You can really feel the build of engery for what is to come. I'm hoping to9 catch up to you all and then go ahead and just take notes so that I can enjoy the discussion. Sorry for joining so late!

Becky wrote: "And I just finished Chapter 12, oh I am so crusehd for Polaner and Andras. I desperately hope he lives."

Yes, it is obviously getting darker.

Andrea, I hear you. It really has a wonderful writing, and the setting is very detailed and authentic.

Becky wrote: "I too think that LeMarque is homosexual, and has feelings for Polaner. Do you think that his antipathy towards Jews is a result of being enthnocentric? or because he is facing these feelings about ..."

Love is unconditional and is supported by strong biological responses. The feelings of supremacy and xenophobia are cultivated feelings. So, Lemarque is definitely torn between something that is natural and biological and something that he has been exposed to and was not able to resist the feeling of pervasive hatred. It actually makes sense why ended up they way he did... Can you imagine his duress and the gravitational pull of the two strongest opposing emotional powers? One is to create and love, and the other is to hate, destroy, and kill.

Chappter 13 Spoilers

You said it much more eloquently than I did Zulfiya. Absolutely true about LeMarque. I feel so terrible for him despite what he did to Polaner, such a soul-rending conflict of feelings. I still hope Polaners can pull through.

Kristi, may we discuss the next section? The book is so absorbing that I keep reading it even sacrificing my sleeping hours:-)

oh, oops, YES...discuss!!

Week 5 (10/6-10/12): Ch 14-16

Thank you, Kristi!

Well, so far it is a typical love story of jealosy and forgiveness. We learn something from the Klara's past, and it is not something that Andreas likes. He is a young lover, passionate and jealous, and Klara is a woman with past, so it is only natural. It might sound and look like a banal romance right now, but we all know that this story could hardly have ahppy ending because of the horrendous Holocaust in the very forseeable future.


I also like the feeling of gratitude and solidarity that Polaner demonstrated. I think it is definitely culturally and ethnically pre-determined,and one can only wonder whether human beings are able to give unconditionally.

I thought that Polaners ministrations for Andras were very sweet. I was a little disappointed with Andras, I have to remind myself that even though he is twenty-two, he is inexperienced as a lover. I can understand how Klara's previous two relationships upset him, in that she left them at Novak's request, but he seems legitimately more upset about her relationship with Novak, and its relation to him. He knows Novak, and I think thats what bothers him the most.


I'm not upset that he was jealous, but he treated her so callously, and then fever set in. I feel so awful for Klara, I feel the weight of her secrets and her hard life, her inability to trust people and the world, and I truly felt for her as Andras turned away from her, as though she was a marked and fallen woman.

I feel that Elisabet's behavior towards Andras was definitly explained in part. I wondered why she was so mean and rude, but none of tis has been easy for her either, and she is just a young girl.

What did everyone make of the cottage scene? I dont think that Klara loved Elisabet's father, the way she reacted to being grabbed seemed like the reaction of a previously abused woman to me. Granted, I think I'd react the same, it seems like men nowadays don't go about grabbing women to make a point. Its that she shut down after being grabbed. She wasnt just angry. She seemed to go somewhat comatose. The secret of Elisabet's father must be absolutely terrible if Klara must even avoid her own family. ((I'm still wondering why the nephew cannot know where she is. Doesnt her brother know since her mother does?))

All in all I felt that the weight of Klara's secret was much more prevalent and weighs upon this story.

May I join this group, Please. Just finishing up Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. I think I could perhpaps catch up with you all in a few weeks and then hopefully finish with you. This book has been sitting in my to-be-read pile for over a year.

Lisa, join and enjoy. The book is mesmerizing in its cultural precision and the pre-war atmosphere.

Becky wrote: "I thought that Polaners ministrations for Andras were very sweet. I was a little disappointed with Andras, I have to remind myself that even though he is twenty-two, he is inexperienced as a lover...."

Becky, I feel you are right. Klara is hiding a dark secret or a bitter misunderstanding. Anyway, more reasons to read ...