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I try to :P The Broken Sword refused to show up so I had to just HTML link it.

I've mentioned this series before, but I can't recommend Karl Schroeder's Virga: Cities of the Air enough. I'm onto book 4 at the moment (The Sunless Countries, it is just such a unique and well realised world.

Renowned in the cyberpunk genre, I am finding Synners hard to follow despite having a basic plot summary beside me. I faced the same issue with Neuromancer as well - the language was difficult, no context or background was given, at least not lucidly enough.

Has anybody read Synners? What are your views on it? Is this difficult writing a feature of cyberpunk classics as a whole or restricted to a few authors only? Or perhaps to the late 20th century?

(I started Neuromancer without a summary, not wanting to be tipped off, but even after full three chapters, I had no clue as to what was going on - the same goes for Synners and to quite an extent to Count Zero as well, but not really since the language of Count Zero is far more descriptive and accessible than these two works.)

Cyberpunk can be a bit like that. It tends to attract a lot of odd authors - I remember reading Embassytown and being confused for the entire first half of the book. So much assumed knowledge of fictional concepts and words.

Lord of the Rings meets Lady Chatterley's Lover. The Passers

Liam wrote: "Cyberpunk can be a bit like that. It tends to attract a lot of odd authors - I remember reading Embassytown and being confused for the entire first half of the book. So much assumed knowledge of fi..."

I really enjoyed The City and the City even though it does the same thing - doesn't give a context, directly drops us in the middle of a new, unfamiliar world. But it did make sense after a few chapters. Neuromancer and now Synners are so challenging, I feel like lemming them! :(

Lit Bug wrote: "Renowned in the cyberpunk genre, I am finding Synners hard to follow despite having a basic plot summary beside me. I faced the same issue with Neuromancer as well - the language was difficult, no ..."

Neuromancer is one of my favourite books, and I believe the best way to read it is not to try to understand every little thing. Let it sort of flow over you, building up images as it does.

It's a bit like being suddenly dropped in a completely alien city where you have only a high school knowledge of the language. I rather like that scary, being dumped in at the deep end style, but I admit it can be confronting.

Lit Bug wrote: "Liam wrote: "Cyberpunk can be a bit like that. It tends to attract a lot of odd authors - I remember reading Embassytown and being confused for the entire first half of the book. So much assumed kn..."

I loved The City and the City. Not so fond of Embassytown. I still don't 'get' the language. Maybe it will become clearer when I read it a second time but I much prefer his more accessible stories, especially Perdido Street Station.

It took me a long time to get into the swing of things, maybe I just gave up and ignored the parts I didn't understand - it was a while ago now.

I do need to pick up Perdido again, I never did finish reading it.

Currently reading Winterbirth by Brian Ruckley for the Winter challenge - highly recommend it so far, first in a trilogy set in a very interesting and unique world.

I absolutely loved Embassytown, but somehow, felt at ease with the setting right from the beginning - felt so easy, I thought. Maybe because I'm academically trained in the theories of language in a much more concrete, sociological context, which he depicts imaginatively in the novel, making them more ambiguous.

I bet, if you've read Louis Althusser on ideology, Michel Foucault on power and knowledge, and Antonio Gramsci on cultural hegemony, you won't find Embassytown confusing.

And Jacques Derrida's deconstruction too.

Liam wrote: "It took me a long time to get into the swing of things, maybe I just gave up and ignored the parts I didn't understand - it was a while ago now.

I do need to pick up Perdido again, I never did fin..."

It is rather dream-like, but once I got into it I couldn't put it down. It's still one of my favourite fantasyesque novels.

Lit Bug wrote: "I absolutely loved Embassytown, but somehow, felt at ease with the setting right from the beginning - felt so easy, I thought. Maybe because I'm academically trained in the theories of language in ..."

lol - I'm sorry Lit Bug, I am interested in language but I definitely don't have the background you have. I understood the significance of the 'lie' but not why it was so difficult.

Akropolis by Catherine McCallum Highly recommended:)

A.C. wrote: I understood the significance of the 'lie' but not why it was so difficult.

Ah, I guess it was only a plot necessity - something like an inability on the part of aliens, or lack of imagination. I guess sometimes we need what Coleridge calls "willing suspension of disbelief" to enjoy the better aspects of a work.

Brenda wrote: "Akropolis by Catherine McCallum Highly recommended:)"

I stay away from YA mostly, but this sounds too good! TBRed!

Lit Bug wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Akropolis by Catherine McCallum Highly recommended:)"

I stay away from YA mostly, but this sounds too good! TBRed!"

I stay away from Science Fiction mostly Lit Bug, I almost didn't read it! So glad I did!

I guess we need to take chances more often than we tend to!!!

That's right Lit Bug, I used to be very "narrow minded" with my reading, but in the last couple of years my interests have broadened immensely.

I rarely read anything that isn't science-fiction or fantasy :P

It is only recently I gave up reading classics to explore some new stuff - and I wonder why I stuck so hard to classics!

Lit Bug wrote: "It is only recently I gave up reading classics to explore some new stuff - and I wonder why I stuck so hard to classics!"

I suppose we all have our own favourite genres, but it's nice to read outside the box sometimes :)

I'm going to do that more often - sitting in our own box is always comfortable, and I know it is not always the best thing... :)

Catherine wrote: "My favourite sci-fi author is Ursula K. Le Guin. I'll never forget reading The Left Hand of Darkness and being so moved by the relationship between the main characters. And in recent years I loved ..."

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin :)

Since my beginning my doctorate research on the comparisons between classic cyberpunk and feminist cyberpunk, I am broadening my area and planning to include, among other things, a discussion of cyberpunk games.

I have heard of Cyberpunk 2020 and Cyberpunk 2077, but not played them. Any idea if they're any good from research POV?

Do you have other cyberpunk games that I could possibly use for research?

Mostly, I'm looking for tropes, rather than looking for interesting games/plots/storylines. There needs to be a cyberpunk theme and I will look into how female characters are treated, if they are any different from classic cyberpunk novels, etc...

Thanks!

:) That's ok..

Lit Bug wrote: "Am writing the first draft for a synopsis for my ph.d. on feminist cyberpunk. So its really, really important. Right now, the length of the first draft has to be 15 pages or so. Not much. Have to w..."

That sounds really interesting. Do you carry it on thru' to Steampunk (better costumes ;-) ). I'm going to take a look at the authors you have highlighted.

A.C. wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "Renowned in the cyberpunk genre, I am finding Synners hard to follow despite having a basic plot summary beside me. I faced the same issue with Neuromancer as well - the language wa..."

I think the core strength of Gibson (especially in Neuromancer) is his ability to generate the scene and tone of the book from the first page. No explanation is required, you're just there. I consider him a modern day master. I dream of being able to write like that.

Ursula K. Le Guin has to be my least favourite scifi writer. She is too ideological.

Greg wrote: "Ursula K. Le Guin has to be my least favourite scifi writer. She is too ideological."

Hi Greg, I notice you are a new member to the group...welcome. If you'd like to head over here http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3... and introduce yourself, everyone else can say hi:)

That sounds really interesting. Do you carry it on thru' to Steampunk (better costumes ;-) ). I'm going to take a look at the authors you have highlighted.

Turns out I'm still writing the synopsis, but I'm not focusing on anything apart from classic cyberpunk and feminist cyberpunk - I'm only biting off what I think I can chew well. But I'm simply in love with the sub-genres I've taken up, and there is enough variety in it all...

Catherine wrote: "Greg wrote: "Ursula K. Le Guin has to be my least favourite scifi writer. She is too ideological."

Fair enough. I guess I like books with a moral core, but I don't think she's heavy about it. She'..."

I really like Ursula K. Le Guinat least what I have read of her so far. The Lathe of Heaven is brilliant and I have enjoyed the first three books of the Earthsea cycle. I did not find her too heavy on the moral core. If the story is good I don't take too much interest in that stuff any way!

Catherine wrote: "Phrynne wrote: "Catherine wrote: "Greg wrote: "Ursula K. Le Guin has to be my least favourite scifi writer. She is too ideological."

Fair enough. I guess I like books with a moral core, but I don'..."

It's on my TBR list :)

Catherine wrote: "Phrynne wrote: "Catherine wrote: "Greg wrote: "Ursula K. Le Guin has to be my least favourite scifi writer. She is too ideological."

Fair enough. I guess I like books with a moral core, but I don'..."

I think Left Hand of Darkness is the best thing she has ever written. I've read The Dispossed and some of the Earthsea series but LHoD seems to have it all in a perfect balance.

I've just picked up Left Hand of Darkness from the library. In part because of this discussion and because I have heard a lot of good things about it. Have to see which side of this debate I find myself :)

Sarah wrote: "I've just picked up Left Hand of Darkness from the library. In part because of this discussion and because I have heard a lot of good things about it. Have to see which side of this debate I find ..."

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin

Sarah wrote: "I've just picked up Left Hand of Darkness from the library. In part because of this discussion and because I have heard a lot of good things about it. Have to see which side of this debate I find ..."

lol - I think it might be time for another re-read. Hope you enjoy it.

Catherine wrote: "If you haven't seen this on Flavorwire it's a really good list: 50 Sci-Fi/Fantasy Novels That Everyone Should Read
There's one there that really appeals to me - sounds a ..."

Yes, Kindred is absolutely amazing - it is not exactly sci-fi since the science part is largely unexplained and not important in terms of plot, but it is not a book to be missed

Hi Pards, welcome:) Linking is good! If you'd like to introduce yourself here http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3... your new friends can say hi!

Lit Bug wrote: "Since my beginning my doctorate research on the comparisons between classic cyberpunk and feminist cyberpunk, I am broadening my area and planning to include, among other things, a discussion of cy..."

Cyberpunk 2020 has a great name, very old now though. Cyberpunk 2077 isn't out until 2015 at the earliest, it should be fantastic.

The Deus Ex series are pretty great and they are very cyberpunky.

Again, highly recommend Mirrored Heavens

Hmmm... I just downloaded Cyberpunk 2020 a minute ago, looking at it now, and not heard of Mirrored Heavens or Deus Ex - will have to get these too!

Thanks!

Pards wrote: "Hi there, new here.
Been a member for a little bit, but just haven't gotten around to using the site yet.
A couple of great books that I have just read are:(Sci-F..."

Welcome. :)

Lit Bug wrote: "Hmmm... I just downloaded Cyberpunk 2020 a minute ago, looking at it now, and not heard of Mirrored Heavens or Deus Ex - will have to get these too!

Thanks!"

Deus Ex is a famous game, haven't heard of the novel though.

Mirrored Heavens, A.C.? It's fantastic, highly recommended.

There's at least one Deus Ex novel (Deus Ex: Icarus Effect) that I know of, but I can't testify to its quality. The games are fantastic, though.

Currently reading Infoquake, which looks at a cyberpunky setting from a corporate point of view, which is pretty unique and interesting.

Liam wrote: "Mirrored Heavens, A.C.? It's fantastic, highly recommended.

There's at least one Deus Ex novel (Deus Ex: Icarus Effect) that I know of, but I can't testify to its quality. The games are fantastic,..."

Let me know how Infoquake goes, am reading Mirrored Heavens now on your recommendation :)

Let me know what you think, I keep meaning to re-read the Autumn Rain books.

I will! :) It's kind of going slow for now, but won't say more until I'm done.

Infoquake was really good! I continue to be impressed with the quality of the books I grab at random from the shelves at work.

Some great unique concepts in there mixed in with the stuff that's in every cyberpunk, and told from a very unique perspective. Very good.

Liam wrote: "Infoquake was really good! I continue to be impressed with the quality of the books I grab at random from the shelves at work.

Some great unique concepts in there mixed in with the stuff that's in..."

I'm loving it too so far - about to complete it!

Hey sci-fi fans, if you would like to pop over to my blog and help me name the alien characters in my upcoming sequel to my book, Lifeboat, you can enter to win a $10 (USD) Amazon gift card just for submitting suggested names. Put your thinking caps on and come on by and say g'day.

I have finally got around to & currently reading,

Red Dwarf
Better Than Life
Backwards

Hilarious, love it, & so very clever! although I have to admit I am a huge fan of the tv series first so I may be biased.