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Sorry if that was unclear. I think he's messed up. There might be nothing wrong with his ideal of love, be he may have been incapable of achieving then.

And I'm the cynic. I don't agree that "nothing good gets away."

Steinbeck is one of my favourites. And maybe good things will last... Assuming they don' get away in the first place, that is.

Just too damn cynical, I'm afraid.

Allan wrote: "I checked there, Declan, and it's a man called Walter Zimmerman-he must be a career audiobook voice, as there are 92 titles under his name-Tolstoy and Dostoevsky seem to be particular favourites, a..."

@Allan they must use him a lot because of his prounciations of all those Russian names. Please give it a go. It is well worth it.

I love the idea if Santa Clause, world peace and heaven. I don't believe in them.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of them all, and I believe one should be aspired to, regardless. But I don't believe in them.

I picked up the complete works of Flannery O'Connor. I wanted to look at some Southern Gothic writing for fun.I haven't started reading it yet. I also just read a cozy mystery called "Shakespeare's Landlord" for something light. I know it's not Irish but it appealed to me at the time.

Hmmm I can't be convinced that heaven doesn't exist which also means I believe in hell. I wish I didn't believe in hell LOL!

Littlemissmuffet wrote: "The idea and persona of Santa Claus was based on a real life bishop- Saint Nicholas, so in a way Santy did in fact exist :P

As regards the application of world peace, well that begins at home does..."

Ooh, I like this discussion.
-Saint Nicholas was real, but Santa Clause isn't. The jolly, big-boned Laplander is markedly different from the original, wiry Turkish saint.
-We should aim for non-violence. I really can't see world peace, but I can quite easily imagine a world with more peace. So I will keep aiming for it.
-Unfortunately I can't choose what I believe. Most people like the sound of things like Unicorns, Leprechauns, Spiritualism. It doesn't mean the can believe in them, though. Sometimes reason just won't let us.

Jamielynn wrote: "I picked up the complete works of Flannery O'Connor. I wanted to look at some Southern Gothic writing for fun.I haven't started reading it yet. I also just read a cozy mystery called "Shakespeare's..."

The group is here for what ever members want to discuss. We have quite a few fans of mysteries, and I know Susan is a fan of Cosy Mysteries.

Thanks Declan. This is a very nice group!

@Jamielynn. I'm so glad you like it. A group has to be for members. If it isn't enjoyable people won't stay. If members don't stay, there's no group. :)

@Allan. Culinary Mysteries!? They world is losing its mind.

I hope so, Allan. Its appeal isn't very obvious to me at this stage.

-It doesn't matter how the modern notion of Santa began. At the end of the day he doesn't visit billions of people over the course of 24 hours on Christmas Eve, annually. It's a lovely notion, but it's also false. Saying Saint Nicholas existed is true. Saying Santy exists is not.
-In cryptozoology it's reckoned that the existence of unicorns arose because of half-arsed descriptions of rhinoceroses. But again, There's a huge difference between the the massive, tank-like, African mammal with a horn on its snout to the tall, elegant, equine mammal with a horn on its forehead. The latter was widely believed to have existed (so much so it's mentioned in the bible) while the second was unknown, strangely. One existed and the other didn't.
-And aiming for world peace while not believing it's possible is not strange, in my honest opinion. It's a can't-lose endeavour.

-Which part of your Unicorn segment were you expecting me to refute? There's certainly no proof that they ever existed in the form ancient Europeans believed them to. And I can't refute the existence of some possible unicorn-like existing in some unexplored corner the world. I will say that it's highly unlikely that anything the supposed size of a Unicorn still remains undiscovered.
-I don't think I'm being pessimistic. I think I'm being realistic. I doesn't keep me awake at night, or anything.

By the way, is that how these Culinary mysteries work? The just give recipes in the back, once the story has finished?

Hmm I know all the Santa talk is probably deeper than I am taking it. I raised my kids without Santa. I told them it's fun to pretend there is a Santa if that's what you want to do. That may sound cold but they loved Christmas so it's ok. When they grew up they said they never felt cheated so it worked for us.

Allan wrote: "I was looking at my Audible library there, and I bought C&P in 2009, but never managed to get through the first part. With people whose opinion I trust rating it so highly on here, I think I'll go ..."

Allan, I'd recommend giving C and P another try. I read it with the group, and it was the first group read I did here. It was one of the "classics" I always intended "getting around to," and once I read it, and read the posts by other members of the group, I enjoyed it and got a lot out of it, in terms of thinking those "big thoughts" about life.

@Jamielynn. Yeah, the discussion is about whether or not we can choose to believe in something. I can't choose to believe in something without evidence, nor I choose to stop believing in something just because I decide to when I know through experience that it does. Btw, choosing to raise your kids without Santa is a bold step. I like that you stuck to your convictions about it.

@LMM. I could tell you that I was kidnapped by aliens who told me that world was going to end in the year 2347, while we were visiting the Andromeda galaxy to destroy a race of super intelligent wasps. You couldn't prove it didn't happen. Is it something you could choose to believe?

@Cathleen. That was such an 'big' novel to be your first group read. I'm so glad you enjoyed it. Had you read a novel that size and disliked it, it might have put you off the group, I'm thinking.

Declan wrote: "@Jamielynn. Yeah, the discussion is about whether or not we can choose to believe in something. I can't choose to believe in something without evidence, nor I choose to stop believing in something ..."
Hi Declan, That's such a thoughtful comment to make. Thank you. I actually remember how nice everyone was in the group, and that made me want to participate in more group reads.

Well, Declan, you are absolutely right. I do like culinary mysteries. I have read all Diana Mott Devidson's books about the caterer named Goldie who is married to a sheriff's deputy. How she gets any work with so many dead bodies around her is a mystery in itself. In Davidson's books, the recipes pop up as you read along. I keep the books as I am sure someday I will make some. Of course, I haven't turned the oven on in 8 months but I'm sure one day I will wake up and be a chef.
There's another series where the heroine makes cookies. She runs a cookie store in Minnesota. Same thing. I'm sure I'll make those cookies someday.
I find the novels restful and light. Something to lighten the mood after reading a book like Crime and Punishment.
There was not a doubt in my mind, Declan, that you didn't believe in Santa Claus. After all, you don't think Kirk is the best star fleet Captain. How can I trust your judgment? :)

@Cathleen. Thanks for that compliment. I'm not sure what it is about this group ,but I've moderated other groups and site, before, and there are usually the occasional trolls and trouble makers who show up. That never happens here. We always attract friendly and helpful types. It actually leaves me with very little to do as moderator.

@Susan. Those books sound very relaxing and soothing. They seem to have the laid-back appeal of shows like Matlock and Muder She Wrote... But with hot food thrown in to the mix.

And of course you can trust my judgement. I was right about C&P wasn't I?

Littlemissmuffet wrote: "That sounds like a delicious plot from 1 of your beloved sci-fis'. It's a bit ironic. You're trying to compel me to say the scenario you describe is ridiculous yet you yourself read many tales of space travel..."

Ah, but the thing is with those stories is that they're sowing the the ideas of a fantastic what-if scenario. What if we were attacked by aliens? What if machines turned against us? What if there was a zombie apocalypse? What if I could travel through time. Just because I enjoy reading that stuff doesn't mean I believe these things have happened or will happen.

People make wild claims all the time. One women famously said she survived the 9/11 crash even though she was 3000 miles away in Spain. She did it for the attention it brought. People found her convincing and her story was plausible. They never even looked for proof. The liked what they heard,; it fitted in with beliefs/emotional needs so were influenced by her story. The stories appeal made them gullible. The people who believed her stood by her until concrete evidence was provided to prove she couldn't have possibly been there. They couldn't simply choose to stop believing. The took her testimony as evidence and that's what they believed. A lot of people asked difficult questions from the beginning and were labelled as insensitive. They simply didn't believe and couldn't choose to.

I don't put and credence in alien abductions. Too many people have been proven to be lying. The rest didn't have a single piece of evidence to back their claim.

Has anyone read this? I just got it this morning.

Declan wrote: "@Jamielynn. Yeah, the discussion is about whether or not we can choose to believe in something. I can't choose to believe in something without evidence, nor I choose to stop believing in something ..."

I think if I told them Santa was real my daughter would have figured things out on her own. She always analyzed everything..still does. haha!

@Michael. It's brand new to me. According to the blurb it her debut novel, so she may be still carving a niche for herself.

@Jamielynn. That's just healthy scepticism. It's a good thing. You must take heart in the fact that she'll probably never been taken-in by a charlatan.

@LMM. I sometimes do consider the plausibility of the big far-out scenarios, but even if there is a hint of plausibility, plausibility doesn't prove existence. And just they I don't believe in something doesn't mean I don't find considering the experience of it intriguing. By all means, even if there was other intelligent life in the universe, it may be scientifically impossible that we'll ever meet them. It doesn't mean the idea of first contact with alien civilization isn't interesting.

Plausibility does improve possibility. It still isn't proof, though. There is liquid water on some of the Jovian and Saturnian moons, which is necessary for life but that doesn't mean it's there. And even if it was, it wouldn't have the conditions to produce intelligent life. I loved the idea of finding alien life, but I'll only believe it when I've seen it.

The best discussions are usually like that.

I meant to start it last nigh, but sleep took me as I was reading the last twenty pages of my current book. I'll be starting it in a matter of minutes. I'm looking forward to it.

Have you started it?

Declan funny you should mention nasty groups. I just dropped out of one LOL! I don't know why the group is such an angry one and it surprised me. I have good luck otherwise and I still love goodreads.

Jamielynn wrote: "Declan funny you should mention nasty groups. I just dropped out of one LOL! I don't know why the group is such an angry one and it surprised me. I have good luck otherwise and I still love goodreads."

Far too many people don't know how to disagree and automatically think an opposing opinion as an insult. When these people have the anonymity the internet provides, normal decorum goes out the window.

Littlemissmuffet wrote: "Dec, No I said in the thread about it that I wasn't going to start it as I wanted to see what ye thought of it.

Jamie Lynn, I dropped outta some groups 'cos there was never any1 posting in them!"

Sorry, LMM. I'd forgotten all about it. My head is swimming with stuff at the moment.

Allan wrote: "I'm about 150 pages in, Declan-prepare yourself for some very conflicting emotions!"

I've come to terms with that before I've even started reading it, Allan. The blurb sets it up as a warm coming-of-age story, but the reviews indicate something a bit more challenging. I could have done with a warm coming-of-age story.

Ah, I'm kind of the same but I'll read that first and then pick up something a little more easy going.

We've had a few books that were quite easy going as group reads. The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry was quite nice. It's not without it's deeper moments, but it was a nice, pleasant read on the whole.

Littlemissmuffet wrote: "Yeah I know exactly what you mean. That was my initial reservation about it. I'm currently reading 'A Thousand Splendid Suns' and it's v moving. Maybe I might have to read something fluffy and swe..."

You absolutely should read something light and fluffy after reading "A Thousand Splendid Suns". It's very heavy going and made me so sad to realize what some people to do others. I highly recommend a nice cozy mystery like a culinary one or one of my favorite series, "The Number One Ladies Detective Agency" set in Botswana. It makes all that sadness managable.

Went to the book selection meeting where we had a heated conversation for our next choice on our "classic". It came down to "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" and Fahrenheit 451".
Huck Finn won. Then we had another heated conversation on whether we are reading too many "vagina" books. Remember I am the baby at 60. Life is good. If anyone is interested, I will give the list of the 12 books for the next 6 months.

Susan, I'd love to see what you guys will be getting up to reading over the next six months. Apart from the cinema book club (which is greatly limited in choice) I don't get to see how GI differs from other reading groups.

There was a show here in America called Sandford and Son. It was about 2 black guys who sold junk for a living in a bad neighborhood. Fred Sandford, the father had his own view on Santa. This is not a direct quote but it's they gist of it.

"Ain't no white guy in a bright red suit gonna walk through the ghetto with a bag of goods!"

It still makes me laugh!

Declan I am glad my daughter is that way. It's good to weigh things out.

I've never see Stanford & Son but it's based on an old favourite of mine, Steptoe & Son.

I know the quote. I think Will Smith used it Fresh Prince of Bel Aire. S&S must have been huge while it was on air.

Michael wrote: "
Has anyone read this? I just got it this morning."

I read it but it 's been several years. Some American writers who set books in Ireland have erroneous information in their books. I can't say this is the case for Erin Hart, but I had a few disappointing reads. I am now sticking to Irish writers or writers living in Ireland convinced (and maybe erroneously) that the details will be accurate. There is now a growing crop of Irish writers publishing crime novels - so many that I can't keep up.

Jamielynn wrote: "Declan funny you should mention nasty groups. I just dropped out of one LOL! I don't know why the group is such an angry one and it surprised me. I have good luck otherwise and I still love goodreads."

I missed Declan's comment on nasty groups, but I will second Jamielynn on saying this Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ group is awesome! And glad you, Jamielynn, have lucked out in the group department. There are plenty of good ones.

I mentioned earlier, Barbara, about moderating other blogs and sites, and that in two years I've never had to ban anyone or remove one offensive comment. I don't know why but this group attracts a great class of member. It makes moderating pretty easy.

Declan wrote: "I've never see Stanford & Son but it's based on an old favourite of mine, Steptoe & Son.

I know the quote. I think Will Smith used it Fresh Prince of Bel Aire. S&S must have been huge while it wa..."


Yes it was. There were some fun characters on that show. Wayyyy back in the 70s before political correctness started.

Susan wrote: "Went to the book selection meeting where we had a heated conversation for our next choice on our "classic". It came down to "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" and Fahrenheit 451".
Huck Finn won. Then..."

Susan, your comment just made me burst out laughing. I bet you heard me all the way in California. That would be cool to see your book list. Hey--your 49ers must have made you happy yesterday. That was quite a game between them and Green Bay.

Declan wrote: "I mentioned earlier, Barbara, about moderating other blogs and sites, and that in two years I've never had to ban anyone or remove one offensive comment. I don't know why but this group attracts a ..."

Basic manners. It's so easy for most people. Some people just can't behave.

Barbara wrote: "Jamielynn wrote: "Declan funny you should mention nasty groups. I just dropped out of one LOL! I don't know why the group is such an angry one and it surprised me. I have good luck otherwise and I ..."

Yes there are.

Barbara wrote: "Michael wrote: "
Has anyone read this? I just got it this morning."

I read it but it 's been several years. Some American writers who set books in Ireland have er..."


I would love to read some Irish mysteries by Irish writers.
As far as Americans writing about a country they don't fully understand it would make more sense to write about their own home towns. Write what you know....Barbara I have just added that book to my want to read list. It's keeps growing!

Jamielynn wrote: "Declan wrote: "I mentioned earlier, Barbara, about moderating other blogs and sites, and that in two years I've never had to ban anyone or remove one offensive comment. I don't know why but this gr..."

So far so good, actually great :)

Jamielynn wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Michael wrote: "
Has anyone read this? I just got it this morning."

I read it but it 's been several years. Some American writers who set books in..."

I must confess though to reading Americans who write mysteries set in England - Deborah Crombie is one example. the last one I read I paid attention to the kinds of details in the book. I noticed she writes a lot about place, geographic details, and less about details of British culture that as an outsider she might not fully understand. I do enjoy her books as the mysteries are quite good, as is the character development.

Barbara, Martha Grimes is an American who writes British mysteries too. She's one of my favorites.

@Allan, the Number One Ladies is just such a romp. It's a "traditional" sized lady in Botswana where real wealth is still measured in cattle ownership. It;s her making her way in a modern culture now while holding her traditional ways. And she loves Botswana. It's like opening a door and seeing another way of life. The TV series (which I loved) was not that successful as they didn't have but the one season.
@Declan, here is our hard fought selections for the next six months. We don't do books until they're in paperback. We have dues of $1 month and we buy copies and keep them in a big box at the library. That way members can just get a copy there or in the library itself.
For Fiction: 1. Flight Behavior-Barbara Kingsolver 2. Round House-louise Erdich 3. Aviator's Wife (about Anne Morrow Lindbergh)- Melanie Benjamin 4. Life Among Giants-Bill Roorbach 5. The Road Home- Rose Tremain 6.What is What - Dave Eggars
Classic- Adventures of Huckleberry Finn-Mark Twain
NonFiction- 1. Zero: The biography of a Dangerous Idea- Charles Siefe (I thought Allan might enjoy this as it's the introduction of zero to our numerical system) 2. Thousand Days of Venice- Marlena DeGassi 3. My Beloved World-Sonia Sotomayer 4. Call of the Midwife- Jennifer Worth 5. In the Body of the World-Eve Ensler

It should make some interesting discussions.

There are quite a few books there I've never heard of, Susan. I've read Rose Tremain's The Colour and I loved it. She's also one of the female authors I'd read before joining GR.

I know a little about the the introduction of zero. It wad opposed by the church as it was assumed to signify nothingness rather than absence. I know that this is one reason Islamic countries had a golden age at that time, as they made leaps and bounds in maths.

When you get around to reading it will you let me know what you think of it? And let us know if any gems show up in your group reads.