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I have to say that while I do connect with small parts of the heroines in books, they really are just there for me to get to the hero.

That sounds awful doesn't it?

It's not that I don't appreciate or admire the heroines. It's just that the heroine is always her own separate character, while the hero becomes something more to me. The heroine is just the heroine, while the hero is someone I form a relationship with. There's the hero, and then there's the hero and me and our relationship!

I agree with IMHO. The heroes are MINE. There are a few heroines that I've connected with to a degree but mostly they are just convenient conduits. I often put myself in the heroine's place.

Almost to a fault any romance novel that earned a 5 star review had a heroine that I loved also. Maybe because I do find women sexually attractive too, I hate the dumpy heroine trend. I want to crush on her as much as my dream alpha.

If my heroine is TSTL, I don't care how great the hero is, a 3 star review is the most that book can earn.

Of course, I do love a fantastic hero. But honestly, I actually like when I really connect to the heroine. A romance isn't a romance without two characters interacting and falling in love. A romance book in which I genuinely like and care about the heroine makes it that much better.

I was thinking about my opinion on this question and wanted to say that it is difficult to relate to whiny, hysterical, doormat-like female characters, when Paganalexandria posted the above...
which made me think about my 5star reviews...and I totally agree!
In this case I feel like both totally deserve each other/ were made for each other...and still I envy the heroine!!! :-)))

I like books where I connect with both hero and heroine... hero because he's the yummy fantasy, and the heroine because I like to put myself in her place. Hey, I read romance for the fantasy and so I want to be able to imagine myself getting that yummy fantasy guy and the HEA. Hard to do that if you hate the heroine and can't relate to her.

It's very disappointing to find a book where the heroine isn't deserving of the hero... and just as disappointing when it's vice versa and the hero isn't deserving of the heroine. So, yeah, I'm an equal opportunity "connector".

Even though the heroes are my favorite part of any romance novel, I have to like the heroine just as much. I tend to put myself in her place when reading, and if I don't connect with her, it ruins the reading experience for me. When I think about series that I read, the kind where there is a new H/h in each book, the books I like the least are typically the ones where I hated the heroine.

I have to connect with her on some level or I can't get into the book. If I read the first few pages and decide the h is too irritating, I know I'd never finish the book.

If I could overlook TSTL h's, my TBR shelf would be much bigger.

Rachel ~ SnapDragoness wrote: "I have to connect with her on some level or I can't get into the book. If I read the first few pages and decide the h is too irritating, I know I'd never finish the book.

If I could overlook TSTL ..."

Totally agree. Just last night I got as far as page 25 in a book and the heroine was just so annoying I had to quit reading. If I can't like the heroine, it affects my opinion of the hero. I wonder what is wrong with him that he can tolerate her.

I find it's always different dependant on the writer. Julie Garwood's heroine Mary Rose in For The Roses is wonderful. Bella from Twilight...a bit stale, BUT, she's almost like a blank canvass, and you can superimpose yourself onto a blank canvass easier and feel like you're in her head, manipulating it, as opposed to Ava, in Bared To You, who makes such silly decisions that you can't quite click.

S.K. wrote: "I find it's always different dependant on the writer. Julie Garwood's heroine Mary Rose in For The Roses is wonderful. Bella from Twilight...a bit stale, BUT, she's almost like a blank canvass, and..."

Ah, I loved . I so wished Julie Garwood still wrote historicals because all her old work is in my favorites. I love her innocent, spunky, quirky heroines. I never had to wonder why guys were so smitten because I loved those girls too.

I LOVE BARRONS. He is my forever-and-only-book-hubby. But I share him with Mac. Because Mac is so fudging damn awesome and while I daydream about Barrons being mine Barrons is actually Mac's... *CRIES* I still claim him as MINEMINEMINE though and he Is MINE.. When I read a book and the couple is perfection, meant-to-be, no-one-can-come-between-them, I-hate-anyone-who-dares-to-fuck-with-them-in-my-mind-I-dispose-of-said-BEEPS-violently then NO, the heroines are NOT just conduits for me to access my heroes. Because they are essential then. It's because of them my hero acts the way he does, it's because he reacts to her so deliciously that the urge to.. Eat him and declare MINE! even occurs. Because without her, he won't get riled up and act the way he does, as seen in the book. Because sometimes, before he meets my heroine he is a total cocky son of a BEEP and I want nothing to do with him or he's gooood but not f-ing fantastic like the way he is when in her presence and bantering with her. I don't connect with every heroine I read of and neither do I ever completely connect with them but there are moments when something they say, do, or think connects with me. Connection being they remind me of me, and connection being that I understand their thought processes and/or actions even though I might not have the experience of their doings/thinking or agree to said actions and thinking processes. Even some TSTL heroines have their moments where I connect with them. Because, hey, I'm not perfect and I can admit my own weaknesses and those darn inevitable moments of 'stupidity' people seem to have, people including me.


Of course, there are some heroines who are JUST CONDUITS for me to access my heroes and they're damn lucky they even get to embrace his presence cuz if it was up to me, they would be ripped out of the story. And I am the reader so throughout the whole book they're nonexistent in my mind or they're these buzzing annoying flies that I constantly irritably have to swat. I feel for the poor heroes who get stuck with these kind of heroines. I am heartless and I DO downgrade a book for an insufficient and dissatisfying heroine no matter how much a hero rocks my world. Plus, in my review I destroy said heroine. I don't suffer her presence elegantly.

So do I connect with the heroines? Yes, No, Sometimes. And sometimes my aggravation with the heroine is applied to the hero too. For putting up with her shit and not being smart enough to throw her ass away. This results in.. 'disapproval' for them both and stars and reviews getting 'harsh'.

Goge (BARRONS) le Moning Maniac, wrote: "I LOVE BARRONS. He is my forever-and-only-book-hubby. But I share him with Mac. Because Mac is so fudging damn awesome and while I daydream about Barrons being mine Barrons is actually Mac's... *CR..."



Well said Goge

Paganalexandria wrote: "Goge (BARRONS) le Moning Maniac, wrote: "I LOVE BARRONS. He is my forever-and-only-book-hubby. But I share him with Mac. Because Mac is so fudging damn awesome and while I daydream about Barrons be..."

LOL Thanks Pagan. My mouthiness just got carried away and I wrote what it wanted me to.

There are very few books that I connect and love the heroine as well as the heroes and those are five star books for me. But most of the time the heroines are just there so I can get to the heroes.

I feel the same way as Jessica does.

It's harder to like a heroine when the story is a love triangle- I've noticed that - unless you like both men equally and can feel her pain.

I read stories for the hero, but I have to say, I like when he has a loving, independent, strong heroine by his side - a woman that truly loves him and he loves her. I don't like to see a hero and heroine that were just thrown together. It has to be love.

I love to see tension between the hero and heroine.

Neeta said: It's very disappointing to find a book where the heroine isn't deserving of the hero... and just as disappointing when it's vice versa and the hero isn't deserving of the heroine. So, yeah, I'm an equal opportunity "connector".

I so agree!

@Goge, I have to agree that I can also connect to a heroine who makes mistakes and who isn't perfect. I know I am far from perfect, so I like a heroine who has her moments of not making the right decision. I just can't stand cruel or mean heroines or self-absorbed heroines who hurt others. That's probably where I draw the line.

I think the perfect hero is one who is really good to his heroine, and I don't have to substitute myself in there because it still fulfills my fantasy to know that his heroine is perfect for him and he loves her so much.

I like sweet heroines, but a good bitch who owns her faults is gold. I loved Sabine from because she wasn't afraid to use her beauty, sexuality, magic, or intelligence as weapons at her disposal, even at the hero's expense.

Urban Fantasy's biggest draw to me are the strong morally ambiguous heroines that refuse to conform for a man's approval. Even the most alpha males in those stories are intrigued and frustrated by the wills of those women.

I love when a author makes a bad girl likable. I don't mind a good girl/bad boy trope, but sometimes you know those guys are too much for that too sweet heroine. I love when a heroine gives as much, if not more than she gets.

Paganalexandria wrote: "I like sweet heroines, but a good bitch who owns her faults is gold. I loved Sabine from because she wasn't afraid to use her beauty, sexuality, magic, or i..."

LOL, when I read heroines like that and I am put-off, I have to face the truth of my sexist attitude. I'm not a fan of the tough-girl or man-eater types of heroines. They don't have to be virginal or doormats, or TSTL, but I like the heroes to be the aggressive ones.

I do read for the hero, but an annoying heroine takes away from my enjoyment. I want the hero to find love and happiness with a woman who is his equal and deserves him. I do rate lower when the heroine is a character that I don't like.

Sabine is one of my favorites from the IAD series. Her personality makes sense. I think she challenged Rydstrom and he challenged her in different ways. It was interesting to see an antiheroine and one done very well. I will be the first to say I like flawed characters. I just don't like when the H/h are unequally yoked. A really mean heroine with a really nice hero or vice versa. Some authors can do it well when you see a fantastic turnaround in the mean character.

I'm so with you, Shannon. I definitely like the hero to be the aggressor. I guess I'm a sexist, too! Lol!

I'm all about the aggressive alpha hero too :)

IMHO~C wrote: "I'm all about the aggressive alpha hero too :)"

Aren't we all on this group? :) (I'm certainly guilty)

Shannon wrote: "Paganalexandria wrote: "I like sweet heroines, but a good bitch who owns her faults is gold. I loved Sabine from because she wasn't afraid to use her beauty..."

Yeah I like that too.

Lady D - the funny thing is, I'm not sure I'd like to be bossed around all the time in real life! Maybe only when it's hot ;)

IMHO~C wrote: "Lady D - the funny thing is, I'm not sure I'd like to be bossed around all the time in real life! Maybe only when it's hot ;)"

IMHO, I require that all my favorite heroes be extremely alpha, most embody the true sense of alpha-holedom that most other romance readers complain about all the time. Yet, in my real life that kind of guy and me would go together like gasoline and matches. Tick Tick BOOM, for real.

I much prefer being the one in control in my relationships. Only men that are "more" than me can get me to surrender that control. I've only met 2 in my life that qualified. Those relationships were intense and destructive, so I run now whenever I meet that type.

IMHO~C wrote: "Lady D - the funny thing is, I'm not sure I'd like to be bossed around all the time in real life! Maybe only when it's hot ;)"

Never in real life! I hate being bossed around.

IKR? I'm definitely on the bossy side, and my hubby is laid back.... but my favorite hero is an intense and badass alpha male o_O

I'm pretty laid back, but I don't like pushy people or being controlled. It gets my goat. Sometimes even in the books, the bossy heroes make me see red.

I'm the alpha in my relationship. I let my husband do the man things and try to stay girlie for him-but I don't let anyone push me around.

In books, I can't stand it when a woman loses her wits over a man. Christian Grey would have only had to order me to eat once-he wouldn't have tried a second time ;) The way he and Gideon Cross keep secrets from their lovers drives me absolutely ballistic. All the running around with their exes to keep her 'protected' is bullshit.

I don't like when the heroine is emotionally vulnerable to the hero and he's like a brick wall. Really gets my goat!

I like my heroines smart and feisty. I don't like comlpete pushovers. And I really hate it when they start out with a backbone and then they lose it somewhere near the middle and become completely putty in the guys hands.

Tori wrote: "I like my heroines smart and feisty. I don't like comlpete pushovers. And I really hate it when they start out with a backbone and then they lose it somewhere near the middle and become completely ..."

I think Ava is like that in The Crossfire novels

Ava did get like that as the series continued. That's why I haven't read the third book. I don't think I can take it.

I agree completely. I like my heroines confident and able to stand up for themselves. That being said, it gives me a thrill when the h is overwhelmed in a good way by the H. The best example I can think of for that is Kristen Ashley's Rock Chick series. The heroes are totally badass alpha males who boss the heroines around all the time. The heroines are strong women who stand their ground but eventually succumb to the awesomeness of the hot guys. These heroes take care of the heroines; they treat them with respect even when they're bossing them around, and they would never sneak around with their exes just to "protect" the heroines feelings.

Tori wrote: "Ava did get like that as the series continued. That's why I haven't read the third book. I don't think I can take it."

She has EVERYTHING going for her-brains, beauty, confidence, life experience and has come out on top of numerous struggles-and yet she flaps like a fish at Gideon's feet. It made sense with Anna and Christian because she was like a little baby bird-and as the series progresses, she cuts her adult teeth big time and develops some serious poise.
But anyone who is really like Ava, would have taken off with Brett.

I agree. Ana was really new to relationships in general and had to find herself. But Ava was a grown woman with plenty of experience. She let Gideon ground her dust.

IMHO~C wrote: "I agree completely. I like my heroines confident and able to stand up for themselves. That being said, it gives me a thrill when the h is overwhelmed in a good way by the H. The best example I can ..."

See, I think that's the reason Rock Chicks is my least favorite of KA's books. She's one of my very favorites, but those heroines are too much for me.

S.K. wrote: "Tori wrote: "Ava did get like that as the series continued. That's why I haven't read the third book. I don't think I can take it."

She has EVERYTHING going for her-brains, beauty, confidence, li..."

I agree, Ana is different (I love the baby bird analogy), she never comes off as being wishy-washy and easily manipulated. She always stands up for herself even when being overwhelmed by Christian. Eva on the other hand became TSTL, and both she and Gideon became too whiny for me. I stopped after the second book too.

~Megan~ wrote: "IMHO~C wrote: "I agree completely. I like my heroines confident and able to stand up for themselves. That being said, it gives me a thrill when the h is overwhelmed in a good way by the H. The best..."

Because they resist the hot bunch?

I'm not sure....I just find them over the top annoying, and they have some serious TSTL moments. Plus, I don't like the thing she does in that series where the next hot bunch guy who will have a book has the hots for the current guy's woman (confusing enough?). LOL!

~Megan~ wrote: "I'm not sure....I just find them over the top annoying, and they have some serious TSTL moments. Plus, I don't like the thing she does in that series where the next hot bunch guy who will have a b..."

Yeah, I have to agree with you there. I don't like the next-book-hot-bunch-guy going after a different girl than he ends up with. Although I think in most cases it ended up being a special bond and not anything sexual. I especially don't like Luke for that exact reason though. It seemed like he tried to get it on with every one of the rock chicks at some point!

Indy and Ava did have some TSTL moments but overall I think the heroines in this series were strong women.

For some reason, I find the female romantic leads more aggravating than the DH on a regular basis so I guess I mainly see them as my conduit ... sounds bad I agree, but I find the male leads of general fiction to generally be less or unsexy so that's why I read romantic suspense in the first place!

In my book my heroine is going to go through both. She's never dated so she's like a deer in headlights with the romantic interests at first, but she's responsible and self aware and comes from a very strong genetic line where women count more than men. She isn't the swoon type, by any means, so when she she makes love for the first time, it's herself she's giving into-not him.
One of the men is alpha by nature, one isn't. But she's a siren and something about her turns men into alphas in bed, and melted puddles of goo trying to get her into it ;)

'Ivyanne whimpered his name, not actually sure what she was pleading for. There was more honesty in his intimate appraisal then other men would dare admit to, and as humiliating as it was, her heart was racing because of it. Every man she’d ever met had tried to put her on a pedestal, whereas his intention was to bend her over it. And after twenty eight years of enforced celibacy, his blatant sexuality was slicing through her reservations and provoking the siren at her core. She swelled with the power of his need, fearing that once she let her true nature out-there would be no restraining it.'

Nice

Yeah...only took me 7 weeks ;) For that paragraph. Sex scenes are so easy to get wrong and it's so easy to slip into cliches! Every time I re-wrote it, I'd send it to a friend for her stamp of approval.
Her husband is very grateful for that ;)