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Hello dear bookworms! If you truly are a bookworm and student of human culture, I am sure that you would have, by now, spotted at least a few extra/intertextual references in Vandermeer's intriguing world!

Here are a few I noticed just glancing over the opening pages of Dradin:

-Borges Bookstore (Heheheheh)

-Dradin mentions that his father sobbed over the sad "exploits of two poor debutantes named Juliette and Justine as they progressed from poverty to prostitution, to the jungles and back again, weepy with joy as they rediscovered wealth and went on to have wonderful adventures up and down the length and breadth of the River Moth, until finally pristine Justine expired from the pressure of tragic pleasures wreaked upon her."
Well, what is funny about that, is that Juliette and Justine are two Marquis de Sade heroines, and yes their adventures involve prostitution (Julliette is dealt with in another book), but in the novel Justine, the poor woman is tortured as she stubbornly holds out against pleasure, and, well, let me not spoil the ending of Justine for you if you've not read it.

Then I couldn't helping thinking that Vandermeer has someone in our world in mind with Hoegbotton & Sons. �Hoegbotton & Sons? No, sir. Not a son of Hoegbotton. We do not deal with Hoegbotton & Sons (except inasmuch as we are contracted to carry their guidebooks), as their practices are . . . how shall I put it? . . . questionable. With neither Hoegbotton nor his sons do we deal."

First off, I thought of Amazon, but there could be something I'm missing there.

Then, we have: “It is called The Refraction of Light in a Prison and in it can be found the collected wisdom of... Whee! Spot the Newton reference? Opticks Or, a Treatise of the Reflexions, Refractions, Inflexions and Colours of Light by Isaac Newton, where he deals with The Refraction of Light in a Prism. Maybe I'm too much of a nerd that I enjoy wordplay like that, but at least somebody is enjoying Vandermeer..... :P

I also loved the references. The first I noticed was something about fishermen and snark (not finding it right this second, but its in the opening of Dradin somewhere).

My favorite is in Dradin. Cadimon calls Dradin "A point stickler." This is a reference to The Sea Came in at Midnight, where Kristin calls The Occupant (and other people who annoy her) a point-misser.

It's absolutely snap-crack popping with references, a lot of which I personally miss because I am not as well-read as Vandermeer. :P

This is why group readings are so valuable, because they bring a collective diversity of knowledge to the table. :)

I must admit that I wondered why the dwarf had not been called Wagner Nibelungen instead of Dvorak Nibulingen, but I am sure Vandermeer had his reasons. :)

So, I forgot to post this back when I found it, googling around re: why Dvorak rather than Wagner: Dvorak in Love. Anton Dvorak was a composer as well, and apparently loved Wagner. Not sure if his works bear any connection, though:

Rusalka appears to be like The Little Mermaid with a daughter of a water goblin instead of a mermaid. Vanda is about a queen who drowns herself in a river to save her people from invaders. Dimitrij seems to be Russian dynastic politics after the death of Ivan the Terrible. Before he died, he may have been writing an opera about Hiawatha (speculation on his "Symphony of the New World" from Wikipedia).

This could all be a coincidence, but I'm betting not given the name of that novel.

Yes, well, I was wondering, since they're both composers and since of course Wagner was the one known for The Nibelungen. I also wondered if Dvorak was combined with that association because a lot of his music has to do with folksongs and folklore, as you also pointed out in your post.

But there might also be biographical details I was unaware of.

Hey, when are we going to do the Martin Lake story? (It's a good one - oops, and I still wanted to comment on Dradin some more, but been confined to a laptop with crappy kb for a while).

I've noticed (I think?) that you're somewhat of a restless spirit like myself -jumps around from book to book...? I tend to start feeling caged in if I stay with one at a time too long... :P

Traveller wrote: "Hey, when are we going to do the Martin Lake story? (It's a good one - oops, and I still wanted to comment on Dradin some more, but been confined to a laptop with crappy kb for a while)."

Why don't we go ahead and put up a thread for Martin Lake and when we get there we can jump in? I'm rereading COSAM, but other stuff intruded. I am determined to get it read and get the review up by the end of the year, though. I'm almost finished with Shriek's History and will be on to Lake soon.

Traveller wrote: "I've noticed (I think?) that you're somewhat of a restless spirit like myself -jumps around from book to book...? I tend to start feeling caged in if I stay with one at a time too long... :P "

Yes, restlessness is a huge part of my reading experience. I get tired or frustrated with what I'm reading and go to another, and if I find something completely absorbing, I have a few days after I finish when nothing feels right and I do the book equivalent of channel surfing. And I get antsy if a book is taking me a long time to read; it's just not my normal and it makes me crazy.

I usually also have at least two or three going, one on Kindle to read at the table and one to read in my spot and one for when I get frustrated or annoyed with the one in the spot. Calvino had a shout out to multi-readers about three quarters through IOWNAT :)

Heh, that sounds like me. I also like to have fic and non-fic going at the same time.

Martin Lake thread here: /topic/show/...

Did you want a thread for "history"? I suppose I shld make one, huh? Ok, will shortly.

Yeah, may as well. I apparently missed the whole point VanderMeer was going at with that one (per his making of article), but I enjoyed it thoroughly anyway.

Here's a few more from Dradin:

The tavern where he dines is called "The Drunken Boat," and here is a lovely stanza from :

I have dreamed of the green night with dazzled snows
A kiss slowly rising to the eyes of the sea,
The circulation of unknown saps,
And the yellow and blue awakening of singing phosphorous!

(Phosphorescent yellow, blue, red, and green are the colors of the squid and of Ambergris; I noticed overwhelmingly on this reread the whole night of the festival is green in moonlight. Bits and pieces of imagery from the whole poem are on point.)

Dradin's missionary crew: Layeville was a character in The Seven Who Fled. Mr. Flay was a character in The Gormenghast Novels, which I think I saw VanderMeer mention somewhere else (but unfortunately I didn't immediately write it down), I was unable to find a reference for Stern (too many possible titles and authors), likewise with Thaw (possible reference to "The Thaw" by Tanith Lee? No idea) and Krug.

Per , Nepenthe is "a medicine for sorrow, literally an anti-depressant � a "drug of forgetfulness" mentioned in ancient Greek literature and Greek mythology, depicted as originating in Egypt." Also the name of the island in South Wind, which I've not read.

I've got The Seven Who Fled and the Gormenghast books on my TBR as soon as I can get to them, so maybe there will be other references to those names. I don't believe for a moment he pulled the last three men of the expedition out of thin air.

Wonderful observations and connections, Amy, thank you so much for them!
Oh yes - Mr Flay - horrible person!
The Seven Who Fled looks interesting - I might just read it with you....
Regarding green glows - check out this blue one!

Noctiluca scintillans :

Oh, and you must check this out!

Oh, wow, amazing bioluminescence pics. Thanks for the links!

ETA: Oh, yes, I would love to read The Seven Who Fled. (Maybe I will not do any challenges next year, just read the web of VanderMeer and my marine biology shelf.)

I had forgotten about the reference to Through the Looking Glass in Early History, where Shriek says Lacond has conjectured the world is a dream dreamt by Tonsure.

Ah, yes, that sounds pretty Borgian also - referring to Borges' story The Circular Ruins.

Btw, some members have noticed that Shriek is on the list for 29 November, so I hope you're still in for that discussion, Amy. I'm writing two big exams, one on the 25th and one on the 27th, so I'll suddenly have lots more time after that.

Yes definitely. I'm looking forward to it. I had to set COSAM aside for a few and finish some library books before they went overdue, but I'm still working at it as well. Sorry I'm going so slow here.

Oh good, I feel relieved at your reply. I've really had a lot going on in RL myself. As Murphy would have it, I knocked my leg while attempting a spectacular jump while trying to chase down my runaway dog ( a while back already (not broken thanks to weight-bearing sports, apparently)) - and knocked my shin-bone to glory and come, so hard that a bunch of the soft-tissue was literally knocked away, so I'm sitting with a hole in my leg that is healing faster on the outside than the inside, so I have to deal with daily visits to the clinic as well, just to top everything.

...and to top everything even more, someone broke my Kobo and my Kindle refuses to take new books. So now I'm reading on my phone. Fun.

At least my life never seems to get boring.... :P

Traveller wrote: "At least my life never seems to get boring.... :P "

You have an amazingly good attitude! I had been wondering about your mom, but I had no idea the rest. I will be sending lots of well-wishes your way.