Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

As for establishing a date as a limit, as I mentioned before, there's little point to doing that, considering what really makes a work a classic - and that's not just age. And I don't really feel a need for that. We've been working both categories with no big issue so far. :-)

Kaseadillla wrote: "not sure I understand what you're trying to get at... maybe direct message me to discuss."

Kasey, just meant that usually votes for questions that span over time and different generations seldom work well.

Being more specific, as I've said before (in my comment about Lolita and other works, message 18 of BOTM April discussion), what feels like a classic for a 20 year old person (I really get what Simon says :-) may feel like a modern for a 60 year old one like me. :-)

But that's really no big issue, I'm good anyway! Any criteria will do. :-)

Marcus: I think you do need some clear-cut definition for Classic and Modern Classic/Popular. You have two distinct categories; it makes sense to have a clear rule to distinguish which thread a person's nomination belongs.

Other considerations for a potential poll (from a 2014 article citing a GR thread as well as the Italo
Calvino essay Marcus mentioned)

°It has stood the test of time. (The time cut-off argument)
°It is filled with eternal verities.
°It captures the essence and flavor of its own age and had a significant effect on that age.
°It has something important to say.
°It achieves some form of aesthetic near-perfection.
°It is “challenging� or innovative in some respect.
°Scholars and other experts endorse it and study it.
°It has been included in prestigious series, like the Modern Library, Penguin Classics or the Library of America, and appears on lists of great books.
°And last but not least, some people define a classic by highly personal criteria.



Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ thread: /topic/show/...

Finally, one commenter asks, Why not just shelve it on both and let the polls decide? Which may have interesting secondary discussions were we to adopt this method of monthly polling (Why is this book a Modern Classic v. classic Classic?)

Lombardi makes a good point in her article.
I'd add that Landing on the Moon was pivotal and influential, too.
Which means 1970 makes a good date.
Also the example titles you listed make 1970 a good date.

A vote, well, as in a poll. well then you're exposing the question to ppl who don't necessarily care, including to lurkers who may never participate. Like Marcos was saying, a sort of publicity/ awareness bias. If we come up with an agreement here, it'll be among readers who have vested in the discussion. Just saying.

(oh, and thank you for your insight, Simon, it makes sense to me)

That's the article Cheryl had mentioned on message 33. Thanks for getting us that excerpt with the list, Christine. Nice contribution. This list and some others like this are a better attempt at a definition than just age.

Having clear rules is always good, but for some matters - like this one, I guess - it may prove difficult to establish a "clear-cut definition".

But I'm just commenting on a very interesting discussion. I just really don't feel that need on this matter.

I get where your coming from Marcos, a classic is defined by much so much more than just age. The article Cheryl shared shows that beautifully, but in this case a 'cut off point' might be handy. Just so people have a clear-cut understanding of what they're voting on to the BOTM list.
Either that or we throw out the word 'Modern' all together and just have a Classics section. Though anarchy may ensue haha!

What Christine is talking about is canonization. The things that academia deem important to study is what most people refer to as classics. For example, I studied Lolita at university so I tend to put it in the classics category but sometimes it does get a bit opinion-based. This is a conversation that I've had before relating to My Antonia being a book that is often struggled with whether to include it as a classic or not; regardless of age.

Debate is over.
"Clear-cut definition" beats "loose border". Our Mod has descended from Olympus and ruled: it's 1970! :-)
See BOTM Suggestion FAQ.

Marcos wrote: "Debate is over.
"Clear-cut definition" beats "loose border". Our Mod has descended from Olympus and ruled: it's 1970! :-)
See BOTM Suggestion FAQ."

Maybe that should be added to the title: Moddern classics (after 1970), so all members will know where to post (because not everyone will read the FAQ)

Simon wrote: Maybe that should be added to the..."

You are so full of good ideas, you young whippersnapper! ;)

HAH descending from Olympus.

Tried to disclose this is "subject to change". While we're all deciding, will use that guideline in the meantime.

and ooooh good idea will add to the title for discussions going forward.

Just couldn't resist that, Kasey! :-)

And you all have a look at GENERAL / Suggestion Box!

Question-I am noticing in some posts that users are quoting previous posts...just a copy & paste thing or some "trick" I should learn?

Jenny wrote: "Question-I am noticing in some posts that users are quoting previous posts...just a copy & paste thing or some "trick" I should learn?"

Under a post, bottom right, click on "reply" and you will be replying to that particular post. The beginning of that person's post will appear after "Jenny" wrote...

Jenny, I believe this only works when using a browser instead of the app. I'm an app user so I miss out on those convenient little perks.

Appears that you are correct Sarah!

Jenny wrote: "Appears that you are correct Sarah!"

Yup. Just tried it from a browser. Question answered, excellent!

Jenny wrote: "Jenny wrote: "Appears that you are correct Sarah!"


Can't wait for an update to the app. I have to use the browser on my phone.

Christine and Jenny, I'm ready for an app update as well! I find it odd you can't view the bookshelf in the group or tag people in comments, I guess the Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ app is doing well enough to not have to do the extra work to give us this access lol.

Maybe if we all go rate Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ and make the suggestions they'll hear us and make some updates!

Value, absolutely! People go back and read previous books all of the time here to catch up! I'll be doing some of that myself this summer.

Valia - as Sarah said, absolutely counts! When you select a bookshelf for your reading challenge, any book that you add to the bookshelf with a "date read" between Jan 1 and Dec 31 will count towards the challenge.

lol I just saw that my iPhone autocorrected your name to Value. Sorry about that :)

Looking forward to next months books

Hi Shuva - all books count, whether read for the group or not! Feel free to comment as many times as you like; the more, the better =)

Just some comments after the last polls (choosing books for July 2017).

1. Largest participation ever (over 400 voters), naturally expected after the recent huge increase in membership.

2. As a result, the least voted books got 32 and 53 votes, which is more than any previous winner book got (except last month's, already with more members).

3. Now for the best statistic: the participation rate increased. In the period we had no more than 70 voters, that was around 10 % of the members. Now, voters raised to about 17 % of the members. Thanks both to old and new and enthusistic members!

I've really wanted to comment about this note in the group's description for awhile:

"It reminded me of _____ but in space."

That's about the funniest thing ever. What book could you even place in there?!

Lol, sounds like you just made a fun game for us to play!

I have 3 distinct questions, and I'm guessing this is the best place for the bunch.
1) When you open voting each month, do you include every book that has a "second"? It seems there are sooo many books each month, with some people nominating and/or seconding multiples that I get lost in the list. Are there any themes or limitations that I'm not picking up on?
2) I have a topic I'd like to see discussed in this varied and robust group, essentially involving Collections (short stories, essays, poems, multi-author). Do I get that going myself (and where)? Do I DM our moderator?
3) More specific: I just "read" my first Audiobook. Should that be included in the Reading Relay Race Challenge? Do I use the "page count" for the Hardcover?
Thanks for your time and efforts while I'm trying to get the hang of things.

Allegra, I can help with the first question.

Not all seconded books get into the poll, only the most seconded, together with other criteria like having been popular in previous votings.

But I guess the full answers you seek are all in message 1 at the BOTM Suggestions FAQ, here:

/topic/show/...

Thanks, Marcos. I guess that means I should re-second (aka third, fourth, fifth) all books I'm interested in. I'll check out the link and get to it.

Yes, Allegra, you can second any books you'd like to read with the group. I myself usually second some 2 or 3 every month.

In each case you'll be seconding a nomination.

Now I see that the way I answered first may have led you to understand the link would provide answers to all three questions. But no, that's a full answer to question 1, OK? :-)

I think Kasey, our Mod, will address better your two other questions.

I knew what you'd meant, but the extra details are useful. Thanks again for your quick and helpful response

Allegra wrote: "I have 3 distinct questions..."

Thanks, Marcos, for your help here.

Allegra - to answer your questions...
1. We do not include every book that has a second. Every book that has a second is eligible for polls, but then we narrow down the list to 4-5 books/poll based on a few factors; see HERE for the list. We do this to avoid a lot of dispersion in voting.
Your intuition is correct - you can second as many books as you want so I'd second all that you are interested in!

2. Either way - you can start your own topic or shoot me a message and I can start it.
If you want to discuss collections in general, feel free to add a new topic in the For Fun discussion folder. You can create a new topic by clicking "new topic" on the top right corner of your screen if you're on a desktop computer.
If you are looking for recommendations, aka you're interesting in collection books and want to ask the group what they've read or what they would recommend, start a topic in the Recommendation Requests folder.

3. Absolutely audio books can and should be included in the Relay Race Reading Challenge. I recommend using the page count for the most popular edition of the book on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ (when you go to the main Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ page for any book, it should automatically pull up the most popular edition). If you have additional questions, the best practices for the relay race are in the very first post of the relay race topic. Copying and pasting the rules/advice below in case it's hard to get to.

HOW IT WORKS
Post a comment (on the LAST COMMENT PAGE) with the following four things:
1) the cover of a book you recently read (see below for instructions),
2) the date you completed reading that book,
3) the number of pages in the book you read, and
4) last but not least, sum of all pages read by the group.
That's it! See below for samples.
The goal is to get to 1,000,000 pages read as a group.
ANYONE can post AS MANY TIMES as they want! This is a group effort, folks! You can enter books read for the bookclub OR those read outside of the group.

THE RULES/SOME TIPS
1. How to add a book cover
On the top right of the comment box, you will see a hyperlink "add book/author" (in English).
At the bottom of the window that appears, you'll see two radio buttons "link" and "cover" - please select "cover".
Type the name of the book in the search field and once you click "search", select the correct book. The code will look like the following without the *: [*bookcover:The Catcher in the Rye|5107]
2. How to decide your page count
If hardcopy, use the number of pages in the edition of the book that you read.
If electronic (kindle, nook, etc.), use the number of pages from the kindle edition.
If you listened to a book on tape, use the number of pages from the most popular edition on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ (when you search a book, the most popular edition is the default).
No genre or page length restrictions, and can be book club group reads OR books you've read outside of the group.
3. Books per post
In general, books per post should be one book as you would be posting the book you most recently finished, but feel free to add more if you have finished multiple books recently!
This is a running tally, so please don't wait and post 20 books at once... wouldn't be much of a relay!
No need to post backdated books. Just start from the day you entered the relay =)
4. Make sure you are on the LAST comment page
As this is a running tally, make sure you are on the LAST COMMENT PAGE before commenting as you want to add your pages read to the last total.
Above the comment box, you'll see the hyperlinks for every comment page, will look like "<< previous 1 2 3 4 5 next >>" or something like this - make sure you're on the highest number. Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ only allows for 50 comments per page.
5. Please double check the math of your post total!!

Thanks so much for your help; I think you've covered it all.
And thanks for all your Moderator work. I'm enjoying the reads and the people you've attracted to the group.

You're too kind! Hope you meet some cool people here ;)

New here. Can you explain what the buddy read is about?

Elvira wrote: "New here. Can you explain what the buddy read is about?"

Every once in a while we have group interest in reading a short story or something else relevant that we add on top of the regular monthly reads. We add as a "buddy read" on the side.
It is not clearly defined what counts as a buddy read or not, so I understand the confusion!! It is purposefully undefined.

Hi, what is the catch-up book for November? Thanks!

Daph wrote: "Hi, what is the catch-up book for November? Thanks!"
The catch-up book is American Gods by Neil Gaiman. Since we've previously read as a group, I left on the bookshelf for now and will more to "currently reading" once we hit November.

Daph wrote: "Hi, what is the catch-up book for November? Thanks!"
Actually hmmm scratch that don't see any reason not to move it back to "to-read" for now.

Kaseadillla wrote: "Daph wrote: "Hi, what is the catch-up book for November? Thanks!"
The catch-up book is American Gods by Neil Gaiman. Since we've previously read as a group, I left on the bookshelf ..."

Alright! TY for letting me know. I happened to pick this up at the library yesterday so win!

So probably not the kind of question you thought you'd get but how do you reply to a comment? Like with the comment quoted in your comment. I can't seem to figure it out. I am trying from the app and maybe that's my problem.

Hope wrote: "So probably not the kind of question you thought you'd get but how do you reply to a comment? Like with the comment quoted in your comment. I can't seem to figure it out. I am trying from the app a..."

Hi Hope - unfortunately, you cannot directly reply to comments through the app (at least right now... something Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ may end up building out.
If you use a desktop computer, at the bottom right of every comment in a thread, there are two hyperlinks: "reply" and "flag". If you click reply, the comment box at the very bottom of the screen will autofill with a quote from the comment you're replying to. Additionally, that person gets notified that you directly replied to their comment (if they have the right notification settings that is... some people change the default notification settings and turn this feature off).

Hope that helps!

Kaseadillla wrote: "If you click reply, the comment box at the very bottom of the screen will autofill with a quote from the comment you're replying to. "

Hope, here's an additional suggestion.

The reply autofill will take the first part of the text only. If you want to reply specifically to another part, you can edit the text, just by deleting the unwanted section and typing or pasting the section you want to highlight. As I just did above! :-)

hi all,
someone help me out what are young adult books?

Hi, Eric. You can find an extensive answer here:

Young adult fiction, in Wikipedia

Other references:

1. Shorter answer:

A brief history of young adult literature, in CNN


2. YA Book lists

The 100 Best Young Adult Books of All Time, in Time Magazine


In Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ:
/list/tag/yo...

They're books that focus on the issues that teens are grappling with, including relationships, self-identity, and a growing sense of independence and responsibility. They can be set in a science-fiction, fantasy, thriller, or other genre, but they're books that are especially offered to teens, especially ages 12-16. Some are 'clean' and some are very gritty.