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So , another big book to tackle!

Please post your fist impressions and thoughts. Dianne will be back shortly with wonderful supportive posts and thought-provoking ideas. She did such a wonderful job with Doctor Zhivago.

I will be honest. I bought mine from Audible, and I am going to cheat by cooking and reading, or commuting and reading, or walking and reading. This is the only way I can squeeze this monumental book in;
Jerusalem is already keeping my busy and angry.

I'm only 26 pages in but am loving the relationship between young Kristin and her father - 'Lavransdatter' indeed!

Just started the Archer and Scott edition and have to admit I'm enjoying weaving my way around all the betwixts, hithers and an awful lot of nays! However, the father/daughter relationship is lovely to watch unfolding amongst some spectacular scenery!

Thanks zulfiya! I'm finishing this section tonight and will post some questions then, I am really enjoying it so far!!

I'm also still in the early chapters, but am finding it faster reading than I had expected. I hope, with all my other reading commitments and plans, that I can keep up.

Not much to say yet except that Kristin seems like a worthy heroine for an epic. So far things are going fairly smoothly for her, but I'm expecting some significant challenges to crop up soon to show us what she is made of.

'Kristin leaned over and looked at herself in the water... she smiled and nodded and bent forward till her hair met the bright hair about the round, great-eyed child-face she saw in the beck'

This reminded me of that scene in Paradise Lost where Eve first sees her reflection in the pool:

'As I bent down to look, just opposite | A shape within the watery gleam appear'd | bending to look on me' (PL 4.460-2).

A moment of prescience in relation to Kristin's independence of thought?

Is anyone else reminded of Hardy's Tess in these scenes of teenage Kristin - the mix of innocence and unwitting sensuality which affects the young men around her?

Roman Clodia wrote: "Is anyone else reminded of Hardy's Tess in these scenes of teenage Kristin - the mix of innocence and unwitting sensuality which affects the young men around her?"

It hadn't reminded me of that, but you're right, it should have.

So far, it is a very easy read. Nothing literary wonderful is happening here, and the writing (at least in translation) is simple and does not evoke any feeling of historicity.

I really hope it is the author's intent to show the simple and occasionally simplistic worldview of the child whose views will be evolving, but having read about the author and her political and religious views, I do not have high hopes for this novel.

I believe it will be the outlet for her agenda, which is what fiction is always about. Authors always intentionally or inadvertently express their beliefs and convictions.

So far, my reading experience says that I can hardly enjoy any novel if I do not share author's beliefs or convictions. The only two conservative writers that I appreciate are Evelyn Waugh and T.S. Eliot, but they were British conservatives.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Is anyone else reminded of Hardy's Tess in these scenes of teenage Kristin - the mix of innocence and unwitting sensuality which affects the young men around her?"

Honestly, I did not get this feeling. Hardy's characters are very attuned to nature but are also very sensual. I do not see that sensuality in Kristin even though she is described as a fair maiden.

This is my thing with the novel - the author is telling us everything. I do not like it. I do not need to be told what characters saw or felt. I need a little bit more sophistication. I just hope that either it is the case when magic is lost in translation or she is describing the child whose world is very verbally explicit and simple, and the writing imitates Kristin worldview.

Zulfiya wrote: "This is my thing with the novel - the author is telling us everything. I do not like it. I do not need to be told what characters saw or felt. I need a little bit more sophistication."

I'm romping through this effortlessly but empathise, Zulfiya - it's a quick read because it's uncomplicated. It's early days, of course, but it's not really shouting 'Nobel prize' to me at the moment, even though I am enjoying it. As you say, it may pick up as Kristin gets older.

I have finished the first part; as noted, a very easy read. Kristin is introduced and her geographical and time location is also introduced. What is it that causes such a seemingly unhappy mother and a much colder relationship than the one Kristin has with her father? Overall it was enjoyable but not earth shattering.

Zulfiya wrote: "having read about the author and her political and religious views, I do not have high hopes for this novel.

I believe it will be the outlet for her agenda,."

Can you say more about that? Either here or in the background thread? I know nothing about the author's views or agenda.

Zulfiya wrote: "So far, my reading experience says that I can hardly enjoy any novel if I do not share author's beliefs or convictions."

That's a very interesting comment. I've never thought about novels in those terms; I can enjoy Austen, Dickens, Trollope, and Hardy without even thinking how different their beliefs or convictions are. I love Dickens despite his deep dislike -- even hatred -- for both schools and the law, both of which have been careers of mine, and enjoy Hardy despite his deep pessimism about life and his fatalism, neither of which I share.

Tracey wrote: " Overall it was enjoyable but not earth shattering."

That's what I'm finding it. And perhaps others are, too, given the lack of any mention of significant issues or serious discussion here, at least as yet.

Everyman wrote: "Tracey wrote: " Overall it was enjoyable but not earth shattering."

That's what I'm finding it. And perhaps others are, too, given the lack of any mention of significant issues or serious discussi..."

ah Touche, Everyman, touche! While I agree this initial part read almost like a lyrical children's book, there are many things we can discuss. I pose some questions for you all here, such as:

1. Does The Wreath remind you of any other Nordic novels you have read? In what ways?

2. What are your views of Kristin's family unit and the gender roles played in her family?

3. How do you think the translation reads so far?

4. Has anyone seen the film?

5. Would you view Kristin as a heroine? What heroic characteristics does she possess?

6. Does this work appropriately represent the age it covers?

7. Thoughts on Kristin herself - clever or not so much? Do you sympathize with her?

8. What values seem to be paramount in the book so far?

I read this probably 40 years ago and remember loving it. So I guess the archaic language of the old translation was not a deterrent. I've got the Nunnally translation now, and looking forward to rereading Kristin after all this time. What strikes me right off the bat is how it starts out much like the old Norse sagas, with its recital of lineage and land.

Yes, I also saw the film when it first came out. It is in Norwegian (with subtitles) and is only the first part up to the wedding. As I recall, it was much more sensationalized than the book, and even rather chilling. I must try and find it and watch it again after I finish the first book of the trilogy.

What I seem to recall from so long ago, is that the theme of guilt, stemming from a too-rigid view of Christianity, was the source of great heartbreak and tragedy. Though there must have been some kind of redemption by the end. We'll see what I think this time around!

Everyman wrote: "both schools and the law, both of which have been careers of mine, and enjoy Hardy despite his deep pessimism about life and his fatalism, neither of which I shares."

" Dickens did not hate all the schools, only the brutal boarding schools similar to Dotheboys Hall. He did not hate the law; he hated the unnecessary red tape associated with it. He simply did not see justice serviced for poor folks using the law that was practiced.

As for Sigrid Undset, she could not accept the suffragist movement and believed passionately in the gender roles prescribed by tradition and her religion,

Her conversion and baptism are also unique. She came from an anti-clerical family, but became a believer and converted into Catholicism, and that was at the time when the world was slowly but gradually shifting away from any form of Western religion - the age of "miracles" was turning into the age of science and facts.

Dianne wrote: 2. What are your views of Kristin's family unit and the gender roles played in her family? ."

Oh, the gender roles. Obviously, these were the roles in late Medieval Norway - a woman who raises children and a husband earns money. Knowing that Sigrid Undset was not accepting feminism, the novel might be her pipe-dream of gender roles.

Or my comment might be simply too far-fetched, but so far, these are the vibes I am getting. :-)

Dianne wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Tracey wrote: " Overall it was enjoyable but not earth shattering."

That's what I'm finding it. And perhaps others are, too, given the lack of any mention of significant issues or..."

The gender roles...I am interested in the different relationship Kristin has with her father compared to her mother. Mother seems very depressed and removed. In the story mother does travel and have friends outside of the community they live in. Lady Aashild is almost an outcast because of not staying within perceived female boundaries, and because she has intelligence and sense in terms of medicinals and healing is viewed by many as a magic woman or witch.

It is a Christian community and yet superstitious beliefs abound. This is very common for the time.

Some more thought provoking questions as I went through this section again,


The monk tells Kristin, "No one and nothing can harm us child, except what we fear and love."

Isn't this so true? Only if you care about something or fear it can it really affect you deeply. Kristin responds, "But what if a person doesn't fear and love God?"

The monk says no one doesn't fear and love God, but of course that is not true. Does this mean God can't hurt those who don't love and fear God? That there is no God? That those who are harmed but don't believe would just blame nothing or the caprice of the universe?

Ragnfrid promises anything if Ulvhilf will live. Sira Eirik responds, "You want nothing more from your prayers and fasting than to force your will on God. Does it surprise you, then, that it has accomplished so little good?"

This was interesting to me, as so many prayers are exactly that, not a desire to find peace and acceptance of events, but a desire to change their direction. Is it selfish to pray this way? Should you not expect a positive outcome from this type of prayer?

Kristin like many children is surprised to realize that adults have different opinions on major issues, even among good people and those she love. When do you think children usually realize this, and view parents and others as individuals with their own thoughts and lives?

Dianne wrote: "I pose some questions for you all here, such as:

1. Does The Wreath remind you of any other Nordic novels you have read? In what ways?

Haven't read any others.

2. What are your views of Kristin's family unit and the gender roles played in her family?

Very traditional, but with a weak mother/strong father dynamic.

3. How do you think the translation reads so far?

Very smooth, seemingly written on a teen level not adult level, with fairly simple sentence structures and language. I can easily see a 7th or 8th grader reading this without any problem.

4. Has anyone seen the film?

Not I.

5. Would you view Kristin as a heroine? What heroic characteristics does she possess?

Not yet. She hasn't yet shown the independence of thought and character which I look for in a heroine, nor has she really questioned, let alone challenged, any of the social norms of her society. When I compare her with more recognized heroines, such as Becky Sharp, Jane Eyre, even Emma, I don't see in her anything to compare with them in terms of heroic character or deeds. But then, it's early days yet.

6. Does this work appropriately represent the age it covers?

I have no idea. I have no knowledge of Nordic culture of that (or, I admit, any other) time.

7. Thoughts on Kristin herself - clever or not so much? Do you sympathize with her?

About average cleverness, I would say. Nothing special. On sympathy, I'm not sure what there is to sympathize about. She isn't mistreated in any way to arouse sympathy. She has a comfortable home and loving father and satisfactory if not quite so loving mother. She is promised in marriage with almost the casualness that one would sell a cow, but she seems perfectly content with that; to gain sympathy, she would have to be facing a marriage she didn't want or some other hardship imposed on her to become an object of sympathy. Even the almost-rape scene doesn't arouse sympathy; she got into that situation from her own foolishness, and I have sympathy for people who are put by others or by circumstances into situations where they face misfortunes not of their own making; I don't have sympathy for those who are foolish and simply suffer the in this case not very bad consequences of that foolishness.

If one is going to offer sympathy, it should go to her sister.

8. What values seem to be paramount in the book so far?

Family and clan, importance of wealth, overcoming hardship, personal honor.

"5. Would you view Kristin as a heroine? What heroic characteristics does she possess?"

I wonder, does a 'heroine' have to be heroic? Perhaps protagonist is a better word here?

I'm not unsympathetic to Kristin simply because the narrative concentrates on her, not because she's displaying any particularly unusual or striking qualities so far.

I wonder if that slightly odd moment when she sees the 'troll-woman' (in my archaic translation) in the woods is important? An indication, perhaps, that she's attuned to a pre-Christian, pagan world? Although, having said that, I guess that pagan and Christian thought will co-exist still in the mid-13th century in Norway.

I do think one of the major themes of the book is the struggle between the Christian world and the pagan world, both of which were a major influence at this time and place. And at the age of 7, Kristin is perhaps exceptionally impressionistic. So she is absorbing both the influence of the strict Christianity that her parents practice, and the superstitions and folk beliefs of her community. I thought it was telling, both her "extreme" reaction to the dwarf woman and her "extreme" shame at being reprimanded for playing at marriage and baptism, two of the most sacred rites of the Christian church.

I'm not finding this book has hooked me in as much as I would have expected in this first section. I haven't found Kristin very interesting. I had trouble believing that she doesn't have a single moment of jealousy about her little sister getting all the attention ... although thinking about it, I suppose it's the mother's attention that the sister gets, and Kristin doesn't much care about her mother, but only her father.

I agree with others that as yet there is not much complexity in this book. I hope that will change as Kristin grows older. Given the Nobel Prize and its appearance on so many lists, I have faith there must be more to it than we are yet seeing. So far, I don't feel I have either become emotionally invested in the story or learned anything about the human experience.

On the positive side, I'm encouraged by the fact that the story obviously isn't going to stop when Kristin gets married. Perhaps Undset is better at evoking adult experiences and tends to oversimplify childhood. I hope so.

I picked up a hint that her mother Ragnhild was not a virgin when she married and this might be the source of all her depression. If so, I hope Kristin's going to turn out to have more spirit than to let her almost-rape affect her own life the same way.

I did find Aashild a strong female role model, non-traditional in many ways - younger husband, ignoring social pressures to conform, challenging Christianity and the rise of male-dominated medicine, and so far prospering despite all of this. She was the most interesting character for me so far. Because of her, I'm surprised to hear that Undset was so conservative in her views.

Dianne wrote: "Some more thought provoking questions as I went through this section again,


The monk tells Kristin, "No one and nothing can harm us child, except what we fear and love."

Isn't this so true? Onl..."

The statement by Sira Eirik is incorrect because in the case of 'fear' of God, it should be translated 'respect'. We should have respect and love for God but not fear in the normal understanding of the word. Fear is not of God, the scriptures tell us. But many in Medieval times and even now are taught to believe through fear. Anyhow, Kristin's answer is closer to truth. We may fear failing those we love or fear they may not love us...maybe? Was this Sigrid's thoughts? I do not know her own religious beliefs.

"Dianne wrote: "1. Does The Wreath remind you of any other Nordic novels you have read? In what ways?"

Though the subject matter is very different, the tone reminds me of modern Scandi-noir: brooding, dour, very little (any?) humour. Is this specific to the Scandinavian literary character?

"Dianne wrote: "6. Does this work appropriately represent the age it covers?"

I don't know enough (anything, really!) about medieval Norway but it strikes me that this could equally be set in a rural town in the nineteenth century - the attention to rural rituals and calendar, the importance of the church and Christian morality. It's very different from, say, Chaucer's bawdier, earthier evocations, or the Arthurian tales of Malory. It's still reminding me strongly of Hardy.

I'm very relieved that this is simple reading so far, since I'm also reading Jerusalem, which is anything but simple! I like the story more than I thought I would when I started reading it. I don't think Kristin has done anything to earn the title of heroine yet, but I think she has showed some traits that could lead her to become one in the future. She's loving and loyal, and that fight shows that she's no shrinking violet when it comes to physical violence! She's still very young and is just learning about some of the evil in the world that she has always been sheltered from. The almost-rape has definitely been an eye-opening experience for her, from the attack itself--by a "priest"--to the betrayal by the woman she turns to for help. Turning to the mother of the would-be rapist is not the best move, but Kristin no doubt thought that since right was on her side, she would be supported. She now knows differently.

I thought that, given the mores of the times, Lavran is extremely respectful and accommodating of his wife's megrims. He even trades his ancestral home so that she can be closer to her family. As Rosemary pointed out, there is some mystery with Ragnfrid. She obviously has a prior acquaintance with Fru Aashild, and it is one that does not bear too much scrutiny. Hopefully this mystery will be solved at some point.

Simplistic or no, I'm anxious to see where the story goes from here.

Roman Clodia wrote: ""Dianne wrote: "1. Does The Wreath remind you of any other Nordic novels you have read? In what ways?"

Though the subject matter is very different, the tone reminds me of modern Scandi-noir: brood..."

I've read very few Scandinavian or Icelandic books but the few I have read have also been pretty lacking in humour. Strangely enough I've recently had a think about why I prefer British books in general (almost without exception) to books from other parts of the world. The self depreciating sense of the ridiculous which they often display is certainly one of the reasons.

Nicola wrote: "Strangely enough I've recently had a think about why I prefer British books in general (almost without exception) to books from other parts of the world.."

I've wondered about that myself, and think it's related to at least two things.

First is simple knowledge of the culture. In KL, for example, there are a number of places where I am sure I am losing much of the richness of the story through not understanding cultural references that would be automatically understood by a Norwegian. Even with the notes in the text I know I'm not getting the full benefit of the work. I know British and American (and through study ancient Greek) history, culture, religion/mythology, and social values fairly well, so I think I am able to appreciate the richness of works from those cultures. But with this book, I feel that there is a great deal I'm missing.

Second is a very mundane reason: I have a lot of trouble with the names. Trivial, perhaps, you will say, and you will be right, but they make me feel as though I'm entering an alien world where I am not comfortable traveling. The same is true of, say, Russian literature, though with enough reading of Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, et. al. I'm gradually getting more comfortable with the names of people and their relationships. But I'm not good at remembering the names of characters in the first place (or, I admit, of people generally -- one of my weaknesses), and with all these strange names thrown around I quickly lose track of who's who. I know, it's a weakness I should try to overcome, but after all, these readings are supposed to be for enjoyment, not for work, and it does make them harder for me to enjoy.

All this is just personal to me, of course, but this work is certainly drawing me out of my comfort zone, and while that may be good in an enriching sense, opening me to new realms, it's still uncomfortable and less enjoyable than the tried and true, as you say, British (and for me American and classical Greek and Roman) works I enjoy more fully.

I am ver late to the party but I do want to say that based on my memories of this trilogy, Kristin evolves throughout her life and does become someone admirable. She could easily have become bitter after the difficulties she experiences but she soldiers on.

Like Drew, I just started and, while I know the Catholic Church will play a role in the novel, I found it intriguing that the first priest I encounter in 1300 Norway, Eirik, has a grandchild.

I found it intriguing that the first priest I encounter in 1300 Norway, Eirik, has a grandchild."

The last chapter of Part I does a good job explaining how this occurs.
I'm curious what the more archaic translation sounded like. However, this Nunnally translation is supposed to be closer to Undset's language, so I'm glad to be reading it. It is smooth and simple.
While the book may not address earth shattering or serious issues, I'm enjoying the religious, social and gender role portrayals of the time. Also, I thought the almost/rape and wake scenes effectively dramatic and all that I ask for in a story.