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Wholesome History Reads Group discussion

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What I'm Reading

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message 401: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments Sounds like a week travelled fella for the times Rick, and he had the Scots down. Then as now.


message 402: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
It sounds like he had the Scots figured out quite well indeed :)


message 403: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
"Princes of the Renaissance":

"The two armies met on 11 April 1512 at the Battle of Ravenna, one of the bloodiest battles of the period and a victory from France. Of the 10,000 men killed, the French losses were half those of the allies. Alfonso I's artillery played an important role in the victory: 'It was truly dreadful to see how each cannonball drove a channel through the soldiers, throwing helmets, heads and limbs up into the air; the Spanish were mown down before they could use their weapons,' a witness informed Guicciaardini; 'it was ghastly and lasted four hours'."

Battle of Ravenna:



message 404: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I am really enjoying "Princes of the Renaissance", its full of colour photographs of places mentioned throughout the text and also full of colour images of numerous art works (every few pages you get a full or double page colour print of something of interest).

Since I can't travel this is a beautiful way to experience Italy again but it also reminds me that I have so many more places to visit and I am itching to go back over there again as soon as I can but who knows when that may be :(

Princes of the Renaissance by Mary Hollingsworth Princes of the Renaissance by Mary Hollingsworth


message 405: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I'm going to make a start on this book on Chopin, one of my favourite composers:

Fryderyk Chopin A Life and Times by Alan Walker Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times by Alan Walker


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'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
The author of "Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times" mentions General Alexander Suvorov's campaign against the Poles in 1793 that led to the "Massacre of Praga":




message 407: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I loved this footnote from the book; "Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times":

"From the memoirs of Fryderyk Skarbek (Kacper's eldest son and Chopin's godfather) we learn that this shotgun wedding was too much for the girl's mother who placed a curse on her daughter, uttering the fateful words, 'May I be devoured by dogs if I set foot in my daughter's home.' Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction, for that is what happened in circumstances that are beyond bizarre. About a year after the marriage the mother yielded to an invitation to visit the young couple for the Easter festivities. During the journey by sleigh across the frozen wastes of the surrounding countryside she fell ill, and by the time she arrived at the young couple's house in Izbica she was dead. Her body was laid out in a frigid parlor where the Easter foods were also being preserved. In the middle of the night the dogs, attracted by the smell of the hams, jumped through an open window and gnawed out the dead woman's cheeks."

😳😳😳


message 408: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I loved this footnote from the book; "Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times":

"From the memoirs of Fryderyk Skarbek (Kacper's eldest son and Chopin's godfather) we learn that this shotgun wedding was ..."


That's Stephen King territory Rick. And a warning to be careful what you wish for.


message 409: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
Indeed Jonny! 🙄


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'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
From the book; "Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times", in regard to Russian Grand Duke Constantine:

"His maltreatment of the Poles has earned for him a special place in infamy. One writer called him 'eccentric, if not insane.' His violent mood swings were unpredictable, and at the slightest provocation he would fall into an uncontrollable rage. As commander in chief of the Polish army, it was not unusual for him to drill his soldiers for twenty-four hours without respite until his rant had subsided, which frequently resulted in the death of men and their horses. For this he was universally reviled by the army, which seethed with discontent under his erratic leadership. The high suicide rate among Polish soldiers was directly related to the degrading punishments that Constantine enjoyed inflicting on the ranks and file, often out of sheer caprice. The public flogging of his soldiers for minor infractions was not uncommon, and makes one wonder how his mutilated personality was brought into being."

Grand Duke Constantine:



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'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
From the book; "Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times" - Chopin's visit to Gdańsk:

"He may also have gone over to the suburb of Oliwa, because its cathedral boasted something of fascination to all musicians: namely, the world's largest organ, which featured 83 stops, 5,100 pipes, and 3 manuals, complete with moving cherubs and trumpet-playing angels. The instrument required seven men to work the bellows.

Oliwa organs:



message 412: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
"Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times" - In 1832 there was a cholera outbreak in Paris:

"When the tally of the dead approached 18,000, the city ran out of coffins, so the corpses were placed in makeshift sacks and left at the curbsides to be picked up by wooden carts wending their way through the cobbled streets to local cemeteries."

And then the traffic jams caused by all the coaches carrying fleeing people and the carts carrying the dead:

"One coachman tried to get ahead of the others, a disturbance broke out, and the gendarmes moved in with bared sabers. Some of the carts overturned, and their grim cargo toppled to the ground. Heine wrote, 'I seemed to see the most horrible of all émeute - a riot of the dead'."

A riot of the dead:



message 413: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
"Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times" - In regards to John Field (who I must confess to now knowing anything about previously):

"Glinka, his most famous pupil, used to say, 'It seemed that he did not strike the keys. But his fingers poured on them, like large drops of rain, and were scattered like pearls on velvet.' This phrase, 'pearls on velvet,' attached itself to Field's playing and it was what the great public came to hear."

John Field:



message 414: by Elliot (new)

Elliot | 21 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times" - In regards to John Field (who I must confess to now knowing anything about previously):

"Glinka, his most famous pupil, used to say, 'It seemed that he did no..."


I belive John Field was the inventor of the genre nocturne, which Chopin used to tremendous effect. He has some great compositions too.


message 415: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I think you are correct in regards to John Field and nocturnes.


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'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I just finished the first chapter in "The Last Great War of Antiquity" by James Howard-Johnston. Very interesting so far. The Eastern Romans and Persians butting heads again. I really enjoyed reading Procopius's "History of the Wars" which covered an early period of warfare between these great empires as well as the Gothic Wars in Italy & Sicily and the war against the Vandals.


The Last Great War of Antiquity by James Howard-Johnston The Last Great War of Antiquity by James Howard-Johnston


message 417: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments I'm currently reading Loos 1915 for a buddy read in the World War 2 group; however to mark the date I've also made a start on an overdue reread ofAndrew Macdonald's First Day of the Somme: The Complete Account of Britain's Worst-ever Military Disaster. Let's see if I can give it a reappraisal.
Loos 1915 by Nick Lloyd
First Day of the Somme The Complete Account of Britain's Worst-ever Military Disaster by Andrew Macdonald


message 418: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
Fingers crossed you find it a better account this time around.


message 419: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
The author of "The Last Great War of Antiquity" has just covered the fall of Jerusalem to Persian forces in 614 AD. He mentioned the finding of a mass burial site in a cave by the pool of Mamilla and allowed that there would have been numerous rapes and murders when the city fell (as would be considered normal with most sieges at that time), but not to the degree that later historians cited (for propaganda reasons): "The final body count is reported to have reached a horrific total - 17,000 according to the History of Khosrov (inflated to 57,000 in the version given by Thomas Artsruni), a figure at least double that, possibly over 60,000 according to Strategius, or 90,000 according to the west Syrian historical tradition."

The Persian Conquest of Jerusalem (614 CE) –An Archaeological Assessment:





message 420: by Jonny (last edited Jul 08, 2021 07:57AM) (new)

Jonny | 283 comments I've put aside my second attempt at First Day of the Somme: The Complete Account of Britain's Worst-ever Military Disaster - it's just not me, and to my mind compared poorly to Middlebrook - more information, but too much opinion. Instead I'm looking just a bit further back, with a bit of Scandi rampage:
The Northmen's Fury A History of the Viking World by Philip Parker The Northmen's Fury: A History of the Viking World


message 421: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I hope you enjoy the book Jonny. I took my copy to read while I was cruising up the Norwegian coast, it seemed like the right book for the trip :)


message 422: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
From the book; "Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson", from the chapter dealing with the American Revolutionary War:

"London's maritime populations also witnessed the distressing sight of wounded soldiers and sailors being landed from service overseas. Many of the soldiers were bound for Chelsea Hospital but holding areas were set up for them and local help was needed for nursing. Communities providing large numbers of men for the sea knew first-hand the human cost of military service. In July 1774, a Mrs Jane Axstone married a lighterman near Rotherhithe. It was her third husband and, remarkably, as one newspaper noted, the three men had but two legs between them. Her latest husband lost a leg while serving in the navy, though this did not prevent him working on the river. Double amputees were a common sight and, being less able to earn a living, were recommended as objects of charity."

Trading in War London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson by Margarette Lincoln Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson by Margarette Lincoln


message 423: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
From the book; "Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson", a bit more from the chapter dealing with the American Revolutionary War:

"On 28 October 1776, there was a 'general press' on the Thames. About twenty manned boats came upriver from Deptford and Woolwich. Press gangs boarded merchant ships and took for the navy every member of the crew except the master, mate and boys. Over 1,000 men were said to have been pressed in this one exercise. No wonder the Thameside parishes were in uproar when, on 8 November, the King issued a royal proclamation that called for the return of any seamen serving foreign countries and, worse still, granted rewards for anyone informing on sailors who hid from the press. That November, a large hospital ship was moored off the Tower to receive volunteers and pressed men. There were violent struggles with press gangs in which women often played a prominent role. Even so, there was a serious shortage of experienced seamen; transports bound for America were stranded below Gravesend for lack of men to sail them."

Press Gangs:





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'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
From the book; "Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson", from the chapter; "Crime and Punishment":

"The 1784 Acts lowering taxes on tea and spirits reduced the volume of contraband goods on the road, but East Indiamen moored in the Thames were a continuing temptation. In 1786 a bloody fight broke out in Deptford when officers tried to search one house near the river. Two customs men were killed and several residents wounded. Eventually, in 1787, customs officials insisted that to prevent smuggling, East Indiamen would have to unload articles of private trade in Long Reach, near sparsely inhabited Purfleet. By 1791 they had to unload completely there rather than at Blackwall or Deptford. But smugglers now had their own troubles: they were reported to be holed up in Guernsey, too afraid of being pressed for the navy to come up the Thames."

Trading in War London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson by Margarette Lincoln Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson by Margarette Lincoln


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'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
From the book; "Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson", another account from the chapter; "Crime and Punishment":

"Crimes might also be detected by watchful neighbours. This was an era when local reputation counted for much. Trust was essential in borrowing networks; many small businesses depended on credit. Neighbours were observant. This was how in 1794 bodysnatchers operating between Deptford and Mile End were caught. Residents grew suspicious when time and again coaches stopped at a house to unload sacks and hampers. When constables stormed the place, they found occupants drinking tea on a bench; at the other send were the corpses of two children. Six adult bodies were in another room, 'besides which the floor was strewed with limbs in a state too shocking for public description'. Those detected in crimes were sometimes punished by the populace, as when a pickpocket was doused in a tar barrel in Deptford dockyard and then stuck all over with prickly burs (a traditional dockyard punishment by its workforce)."

Body snatchers:



message 426: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
From the book; "Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson", from the chapter; "Crime and Punishment", a bit of interesting social history:

"No one wanted to be robbed, but highwaymen got more respect than footpads. A highwayman tended to be from a slightly higher social rank. The horse he rode was a kind of status symbol. It was expensive to maintain and he risked being identified by the animal, but highwaymen had to be well mounted in order to escape if pursued. Stories proliferated representing highwaymen as intelligent, witty and even urbane. In the summer of 1773 two gentlemen travelling in a post-chaise over Shooter's Hill, Blackheath, were stopped by a highwayman on a good-looking grey horse. He accosted them with the usual, 'Your money of your life!' adding that whatever money they gave him had better be good. He carried a pair of scales in his pocket and would not be imposed upon with light coinage. As soon as he could, the highwayman weighed the money and found each coin more than two shillings below value. He turned back and soon overtook the chaise between Deptford and London. He swore that if this was the best money the two men could produce, they could have it back again. They solemnly declared that it was, so the highwayman returned it, saying he was too honest to be hanged for being a clipper and a highway robber - the point being that bogus coin was so rife that rogues would not risk their lives for it."

Trading in War London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson by Margarette Lincoln Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson by Margarette Lincoln


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'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
"Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson" - A good idea that lasted and of course a scam that followed:

"In 1774, the Society for the Recovery of Persons Apparently Drowned, later called the Humane Society, was formed to help save people from drowning in the Thames .... It gave a two-guinea reward to rescuers who pulled people from the river, and gave four guineas if they resuscitated someone. A guinea went to those who allowed their premises to be used for treatment. The poor soon devised scams: one pretended to be a victim, another their rescuer, and they split the money afterwards. Financial rewards were later replaced with medals and certificates."

The Royal Humane Society:



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'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
"Trading in War: London's Maritime World in the Age of Cook and Nelson" - A good example of ingenuity by the local poor, 'Lumpers', who helped unload cargo of ships on the Thames:

"In scandalous detail, the committee revealed how ships were plundered. Coopers came on board to repair the enormous hogsheads of sugar before unloading and helped themselves to the contents. Then lumpers came, dressed to steal:

Lumpers are clothed in a common Jacket and long Trousers, with an Apron on, in the Inside of which is a large Pocket of Bag; over the Jacket is hung various empty Bags, tied to their Shoulders, hanging down their Backs, and also in Front, exclusive of the secondary Mode of Hats, Shoes, etc; over the Jacket is wore a large stiff Canvas Frock, which entirely conceals the Bags and Dress underneath.

Workers helped each other to load up with stolen cargo before calling a boat to go ashore on the pretence of getting food or drink. If challenged, they dropped their bags straight into the water because they could only be prosecuted if stolen goods were found on them."

The Thames River Police Museum:



message 429: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments Some fascinating posts Rick, l something I might have to read, to pass some of it along to my dad (not a fan of history books, but he did love a bit of the age of sail (Patrick O'Brien, Alexander Kent and so on).

I've just finished one book by an ex-paratrooper, Mark Saliger's The First Bridge Too Far: The Battle of Primosole Bridge 1943 which was good and I'm dragging my way through another, James M. Fenelon's Four Hours of Fury: The Untold Story of World War II's Largest Airborne Invasion and the Final Push into Nazi Germany which is less so. I'll get a review for the Saliger book up as soon as I can get things down coherently.

The First Bridge Too Far The Battle of Primosole Bridge 1943 by Mark Saliger Four Hours of Fury The Untold Story of World War II's Largest Airborne Invasion and the Final Push into Nazi Germany by James M. Fenelon


message 430: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I will look forward to your review Jonny. If your dad enjoys books on the age of sail he might like this new book by Stephen Taylor:

Sons of the Waves A History of the Common Sailor, 1740-1840 by Stephen Taylor Sons of the Waves: A History of the Common Sailor, 1740-1840 by Stephen Taylor


message 431: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I've started reading this book today which combines two of my favourite subjects; Napoleon and Renaissance art!

Napoleons Plunder and the Theft of Veroneses Feast by Saltzman Cynthia Napoleons Plunder and the Theft of Veroneses Feast by Saltzman Cynthia


message 432: by Cheri (new)

Cheri (cheri12) | 9 comments Today I started reading The Struggle Against Russia in the Romanian Principalities by Radu R. Florescu The Struggle Against Russia in the Romanian Principalities by Radu R. Florescu. I have read his previous works before such as the three volumes series on the history of Vlad Dracula whose namesake was borrowed by Bram Stroker to create that popular vampire story. So, I'm curious if this author has written a different subject other than Dracula's Wallachia (since he wrote on Dracula's extensively, collaborating with other historians too) and good thing is he did. But searching for this book was rather difficult because it was very expensive and quite rare too. Seems like no one is aware that he has published other works (other than his famous Dracula's books). I'm lucky enough to find that this book was recently reprinted as a 2nd edition and bought it when it was discounted.

This book is about the events leading up to the unification of Romania (which was known as Wallachia) and Moldova (which was known as Moldavia) as the United Principalities in the 19th-century.

I have noticed that these two nations seem to be quite similar since the times of Vlad Dracula where, at that time, the prince of Moldavia was Dracula's cousin (his name was Stephen the Great). So it seems like a fateful union. And these nations' histories were pretty much about their struggle against foreign occupation.

Also, I always heard a joke that Romania will always vote for Moldova in Eurovision Song Contest. :D


message 433: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
Cherry wrote: "Today I started reading The Struggle Against Russia in the Romanian Principalities by Radu R. FlorescuThe Struggle Against Russia in the Romanian Principalities by [author:Radu R. Flor..."

Sounds like a very interesting book on a subject not normally covered much in English. I hope you enjoy the book.


message 434: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments Cherry wrote: "Also, I always heard a joke that Romania will always vote for Moldova in Eurovision Song Contest."

No joke; voting in Eurovision is properly politicised; the Scandi's gang up, half of eastern Europe is terrified of Russia, and everyone hates the UK...

I've made a start on Charles Townshend's The Republic: The Fight for Irish Independence, 1918-1923; his book on the Easter Rising was excellent. I'm looking forward to this, although it'll be a long read.

The Republic The Fight for Irish Independence, 1918-1923 by Charles Townshend


message 435: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I hope it meets expectations Jonny, keep us all posted.


message 436: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (last edited Aug 29, 2021 02:18PM) (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I'm starting this massive (over 760 pages) book on Henry III:


Henry III The Rise to Power and Personal Rule, 1207-1258 by David Arscott Carpenter Henry III: The Rise to Power and Personal Rule, 1207-1258 by David Arscott Carpenter


message 437: by Elliot (new)

Elliot | 21 comments Last month I read The Knight and Chivalry by Richard Barber The Knight and Chivalry by Richard Barber. This is the second book of his I've read: both are dry but full of intersting detail.

Here is my review if you are interested: /review/show...


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message 439: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I've had this book sitting in my library since 2012 so figured its about time I sat down and started reading it:

Holy War How Vasco da Gama's Epic Voyages Turned the Tide in a Centuries-Old Clash of Civilizations by Nigel Cliff Holy War: How Vasco da Gama's Epic Voyages Turned the Tide in a Centuries-Old Clash of Civilizations by Nigel Cliff


message 440: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I've had this book sitting in my library since 2012 so figured its about time I sat down and started reading it:

The Republic The Fight for Irish Independence by Charles Townshend which is proving excellent, and a biography of Tyneside industrialist William Armstrong (William Armstrong: Magician of the North) off hydraulic crane and armaments er, fame which is equally interesting.



message 441: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments In taking a break from The Republic: The Fight for Irish Independence; its very good, but I'm just not reading fast enough at the moment to do it justice! I'm filling the gap with two equally good books, Britain's War: Into Battle, 1937-1941 and Operation Thunderbolt: Flight 139 and the Raid on Entebbe Airport, the Most Audacious Hostage Rescue Mission in History which despite the videos blurb ("reads like a thriller") isn't putting words into people's mouths, or thoughts into their heads. All good stuff!


Britain's War Into Battle, 1937-1941 by Daniel Todman
Operation Thunderbolt Flight 139 and the Raid on Entebbe Airport, the Most Audacious Hostage Rescue Mission in History by Saul David


message 442: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
Sounds like two good books there Jonny. I have a copy of "Operation Thunderbolt" that I am yet to read so fingers crossed you find it to be an excellent account.


message 443: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
I'm going to start Giles Milton's latest book:

Checkmate in Berlin The Cold War Showdown That Shaped the Modern World by Giles Milton Checkmate in Berlin: The Cold War Showdown That Shaped the Modern World by Giles Milton


message 444: by Cheri (new)

Cheri (cheri12) | 9 comments Started reading The Age of Confucian Rule The Song Transformation of China (History of Imperial China, #4) by Dieter Kuhn The Age of Confucian Rule: The Song Transformation of China by Dieter Kuhn. Not the most in-depth overview of the Song Dynasty of Imperial China but decent enough to cover the period when civil and Confucian-based Imperial China was surrounded by militarily-based kingdoms of Khitan, Tanguts, and the Mongols. This is the fourth book of the six-volume series of the History of Imperial China.


message 445: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments Certainly outside of my usual reading Cherry; be interested to hear what you think.


message 446: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
Something a bit different indeed, I hope you enjoy the book Cherry.


message 447: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
"Checkmate in Berlin: The Cold War Showdown That Shaped the Modern World" - The start of the blockade of Berlin:

Grand historical parallels were uppermost in his mind in those opening days of the siege. “The cold inhuman minds of the Kremlin had reached a wicked decision, the most barbarous in history since Genghis Khan reduced conquered cities to pyramids of skulls.� Howley knew that the closing of the land routes had marked the end of the Phoney War and the beginning of a battle for survival. “June 24, 1948, is one of the most infamous dates in the history of civilisation,� he wrote, adding that it was the day on which “the Russians tried to murder an entire city to gain a political advantage.� It was conquest by starvation, pure and simple. “There we were, in a land-locked city, trapped in the Bear’s paws.�

Checkmate in Berlin The Cold War Showdown That Shaped the Modern World by Giles Milton Checkmate in Berlin: The Cold War Showdown That Shaped the Modern World by Giles Milton


message 448: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments Had to enjoy this exchange between hostages and captors at Entebbe:

Böse wanted to be called Basil, his nom de guerre. Instead Cojot baited him with 'Klaus' and sometimes even took 'sadistic delight' in engaging this post-war German child in logical discussions. 'Doesn't it bother you,' he asked Böse, 'a leftist revolutionary from a country that made a name for itself by inventing the worst type of fascism, to torment the same victims of this fascism again?
'No,' replied the German, 'because my goals are different.' 'And the means?'
Böse looked unsettled. 'Up to now,' he said defensively, 'you haven't suffered too much. We have been korrect with you.'
Cojot raised his eyebrows at this use of an adjective so beloved of the Nazis. But his response was playful: 'True, but we could all have been burned alive. And besides, you're not keeping us here to educate us.'
Another hostage who had a similar conversation with Böse at this time was Yitzhak David, deputy major of the Israeli town of Kiryat Bialik and an Auschwitz survivor. Showing the German the number tattoo on his arm, David declared: 'I was mistaken when I told my children that there is a different Germany. When I see what you and your friends are doing to women, children and the elderly, I see that nothing has changed in Germany.'
Böse paled. 'You're wrong,' he said in a trembling voice. 'I carried out terrorist acts in West Germany because the ruling establishment took Nazis and reactionaries into its service. I also know that in September 1970 the Jordanians killed more Palestinians than the Israelies did, as did the Syrians at Tel al-Zaatar [a battle fought in 1976 during the Lebanese Civil War that resulted in a massacre Of Palestinians]. My friends and I are here to help the Palestinians because they are the underdog. They are the ones suffering.'
David was unimpressed. 'Well, then; he responded, 'when the Palestinians fulfil their promise and throw us in the sea, we'll come to you to help us hijack Arab planes.'
Workie tickets of the World unite! The book, Operation Thunderbolt: Flight 139 and the Raid on Entebbe Airport, the Most Audacious Hostage Rescue Mission in History, is quite excellent; I'm up I'm nearly finished, with the Israeli rescue op just getting underway.

Operation Thunderbolt Flight 139 and the Raid on Entebbe Airport, the Most Audacious Hostage Rescue Mission in History by Saul David


message 449: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 1215 comments Mod
Sounds pretty good Jonny, I will have to go find my copy.

Have you watched the movie; "Seven Days in Entebbe"? Daniel Brühl plays the role of Wilfried Böse:




message 450: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 283 comments I've not Rick; I'd meant to, but it dropped off the radar. Although it's back on it now...


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