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Ami and Sarah, I hope your reading journey will be engaging and meaningful. As promised, I have opened a thread for you to discuss this novel.

It is up to you how you organize the discussion and what you reading pace is.
I will still encourage you to use spoilers marks as there may be other group members who would like to join later.

Good luck and happy reading.

Reading Schedule for House of the Spirits

SEPTEMBER
21st Chapters 1 & 2
28th Chapters 3 & 4

OCTOBER
5th Chapters 5 & 6
12th Chapters 7
19th Chapters 8-9
26th Chapters 10-12

November
2nd Chapters 13, 14 & Epilogue

In order to keep our single thread organized, we have agreed our DISCUSSIONS

... will proceed during and after the assigned week's reading. If after 3 weeks the discussion is only b/n me and Sarah, we will use our own discretion as to how to proceed...i.e. speed it up, or slow it down.

***As of 10/17, we decided to slow down the pace to enhance this already enjoyable experience, since both the reading and discussions are continuing to grow even more lush in content with this ravishing novel***

... will title comments with the chapters discussed in bold at the beginning of the commentary, so as to keep the thread organized and focused on the individual sections (as in the actual discussion of the book).

... will read as a group and post according to the schedule; therefore, preventing any SPOILERS . For those who end up joining down the road, please pay attention to chapter headers at the beginning of each comment.

...WILL send personal/private message either to Sarah, or Ami, with any other questions regarding The House of the Spirits Buddy Read.

We have really been looking forward to reading The House of the Spirits, by Allende for a very long time...The time is finally upon us, so let us commence!

I'm excited for you! This is such a luscious, haunting, beautiful novel. I hope you won't mind if I peek in on your discussion.

Chapter One only

I'm going to try very hard not to do too many movie/book comparisons, but a few are going to slip out.

I was surprised that this was being told in the first person by Esteban Trueba. He's such an appalling person that it will be impossible for him to ever be a sympathetic character. I do think this will make the novel have a much more intense emotional impact.

I was puzzled by Rosa's green hair. And then when most people viewed her after her death, they saw her as a mermaid. Clara did not. Why is this?

I really loved Marcos's character. You can see where he would have had a very strong impact on Clara. And she did a phenomenal job of painting his character. Phrases like "Marcos fell into a very deep depression for two or three days" were a brilliant way to depict him. There were a few of these little gems when it was describing him; I completely loved it.

I was very puzzled by the "bird" that Marcos built. It called it a plane as well but it was described as having flapping wings and a propeller on top. It actually sounds more like a helicopter, but I don't think it could have been that. Any insights?

I'm aiming for Chapter 2 tomorrow.

Sarah wrote: " Chapter One only

I'm going to try very hard not to do too many movie/book comparisons, but a few are going to slip out.

I was surprised that this was being told in the first person by Esteban T..."

Chapter One only

I too have watched the movie, quite some time ago, but am finding myself completely intoxicated by Allende's story telling-It's almost lyrical to me-Finding myself in a drunk haze already in this first chapter. I was not surprised to find out Esteban Trueba was the narrator, in fact, I'm completely enthralled by the story being conveyed by him (I'll message you why, movie spoiler). Maybe you're not separating yourself enough from your idea of him, via the movie? Esteban in this chapter is depicted as hardworking, diligent and very determined on marrying Rosa, all because he is so enamored by her-There was a heartbreaking aspect to him for me... In the beginning. I don't remember feeling that way in the movie? Esteban's demeanor does not change, for me, until after Rosa's death, where he is overcome by anger which renders him incapable of tenderness and mercy(36). But here's the kicker...Despite all of his ill feelings, Esteban found himself completely absorbed by a frustrated desire not having the opportunity to consummate the relationship (is this how you read it?)-I found this appalling; he didn't love her; it was more of a motivation led by lust.

I'm finding the transition between narrators to be interesting (first person-Esteban, third person-Omniscient, for now?)

I love the way Allende describes Rosa with her translucent skin, yellow eyes and green hair, you would think there was a deeper meaning to her characteristics, but I think she really did have all those attributes- It's too believable. Welcome to the magical realism genre!

Clara was the only one who saw Rosa during the autopsy. Having been a witness to a very macabre scene would, I would think, prevent a child from observing what was considered to be etherial and mermaid like by most, to just as it was...A dead sister with green hair. I think Clara experiences a real loss of innocence with the passing of her sister, she blames herself for the death because she thought she willed it by prophesying it.

Yes! Uncle Marcos' character was also very whimsical and interesting-Very clear as to why Clara took to him more than the other siblings. I especially loved the dynamics between the two during the phase where Uncle Marcos used Clara's clairvoyance to sharpen his own skills-SO funny!

While reading about the bird Uncle Marcos built, I had to reread the section because of the description between the duality in features of the bird/plane. Written in such a straightforward manner rendering a very believable observation, Clara describes what is really a plane could have very well have been a bird too...Again, similar to the approach in the description of Rosa's appearance. As far as it being a helicopter versus a plane, well, it's Uncle Marcos who in his own right was ahead of his time. It could have been a cross between the two...Why not? All that I took away was it really was some sort of plane and not a bird.

I also really loved how this chapter ended with She did not speak again until nine years later, when she opened her mouth to announce she was planning to be married...What a great cliff hanger! I would be irate if I had to read this in installments!

Wasn't that a great cliffhanger? I was grinning from ear to ear. The closer this resembles the movie the more it makes me smile :)

I'm also finding her writing style to be quite mesmerizing. I was completely caught up in the story. The description of Rosa is very vivid and easy to picture. It threw me because the movie is normal except for a few things about Clara. It was unexpected AND I accidentally read it the opposite way the first time: yellow hair and green eyes! So when it got to the scene on the bus, I'm going "huh?".

I'm not sure what to think of the first person/third person narration style. I've read several books this way lately and I'm not a big fan. I find it a bit jarring when Esteban is suddenly speaking in the first person. I assume it will get smoother for me as I get used to it. Otherwise I really can't believe how riveting her writing was.

On to Chapter 2! And very excited about it.

Chapter 1 & 2

I have more to say later, but for now I'm saying that I loathe Esteban in the book every bit as much as Esteban in the movie.

Chapters 1 & 2

Hello ladies! I have decided to join you for the House of the Spirits read, so thought I'd pitch in! I am going on vacation for two weeks in October and really don't want as many on-going reads as I currently have, so I do plan on finishing this one pretty quickly and ahead of the possted schedule. I'll still pitch in for discussions, though, when I can.

I haven't seen the movie and had no idea what to expect going into this book. In my head I was comparing it to 100 Years of Solitude, which wasn't a favorite of mine, but so far I am greatly and pleasantly surprised. The writing has really sucked me in and I am finding myself totally engrossed in the story. Lets just say it won't be hard to finish it before I go!

I also am not a huge fan of the 1st to 3rd person narration switching. It is a bit confusing. Especially when, like you guys, I also don't like Esteban. It is a bit jarring to read his thoughts on what he is doing when all I can think of is how appalling his behavior is. I have found, though, that the further into the book I get, the less I notice the narration switches.

As per the bird/plane, I took it as pretty much just a plane. The description is coming from Clara's journals when she was just a little girl, so it wouldn't surprise me if she thought that the wings were flapping like a birds, even if it was just a plane.

There is a lot in these first two chapters pertaining to class and gender inequalities. As the del Valle family is the sympathetic one so far in the story, I was glad to see that at least the mother was very progressive and much more liberally-minded. Esteban, and especially his relationship with his sister and his mother, is driving me crazy. I know that this is how things were, but I still hate to see a woman whose only opportunity to better herself has to come through a good marriage, where the man can just run away and re-make his fortune.

I don't know where the book is going, but I do know from the description that the del Valle family will continue to have a big role. For now, that is appeasing me and helping to quell my hatred for pretty much everything Esteban does and stands for.

Thanks for inviting the group to read along, ladies, as this one might have sat on the "to-read" list for quite some time before I actually got around to reading it.

Sarah wrote: " Chapter 1 & 2

I have more to say later, but for now I'm saying that I loathe Esteban in the book every bit as much as Esteban in the movie."

Chapter 2 Only

Sarah, if you hold him in contempt now I can't wait to read what you have to write about him after Chapter 2!

His relationship with Férula is worth mentioning here because we get such a great view of it...My god, this woman is the epitome of a guilt ridden Catholic spinster, is she not? She takes great pleasure in humiliation and in the menial tasks necessary for taking care of their bed ridden mother. Having great confidence in reaching heaven by suffering terrible injustice, she performs as a dutiful daughter all while hating her mother for being so decrepit (42). I found her need to impress this type of guilt upon a young child rather terrible-I can see why Esteban holds her in such contempt. I would think growing up in this type of environment, under Férula's nose, one would either grow up being a god-fearing fanatic, or somebody void of a conscience-Think we can all guess which route Esteban chose?

Okay, I know you hate Esteban, but I can't help but feel sorry for him at the same time. I'm going to jump right into it, and by it, I mean the Viennese coffee scene...I read this section and saw his whole life flash before my eyes. Just like the coffee, Tres Marías will also signify the same accomplishment to fulfill a dream he had cherished ever since he was a child(43). This particular incident at the Hotel Francés, is a foreshadowing of what is to become of Esteban's life.

As a child he was so mesmerized by the Viennese coffee sitting in front of him; he sat there savoring every moment, until finally ...he picks up the long handled spoon and dips it into the cream and further down to the coffee. He stirred and stirred and stirred...and suddenly the tip of the spoon knocked against the glass, opening a crack through which the coffee leapt, pouring onto his clothes(43). Esteban becomes very fixated on creating an untouchable life; commanding respect for himself. Having created a barter system with the locals, he fails to take notice of what the people really need and want...Fair wages. This in itself is cause for upheaval, is it not? He will bring the fruits of his labor to their demise because of his inability to stray from his draconian mindset- having attained something beautiful only to lose it in the end and not be able to thoroughly enjoy it.

Chapter 2 also gives us a great amount of duality in context. Esteban builds a beautiful estate, bettering the lives of the inhabiting peasants in the area, maintaining a real quality of life for everybody by instilling fear in the people-he ensures they are kept in their place. He truly has put forth much effort for the betterment of the peasants, including building a school to learn basic skills; yet, the peasants are unhappy. It's very interesting because Esteban can take what he wants as he pleases (philandering), but the peasants are only allowed what they are given...By him. Esteban achieves greatness with questionable principles, which can only be feasible in the short run.

I do not know where we are, exactly, geographically; but assume the novel takes place somewhere in 3rd world South America? I think 3rd world because it is our first exposure to societal classes and so far we have only been introduced to the city living aristocrats and country living peasants.

I like that we know the 3rd person narrator is Esteban's granddaughter, Alba. I could not wrap my head around it in the beginning, not knowing, but it makes the story richer being conveyed from her point of view.

Chapter 2 only

I want to review a couple of things about the chapter before I post, but could you tell me where it tells us that Blanca is the third person narrator? I completely missed that.

Sarah - I completely missed this, too, and was going to go back and check. Glad it wasn't just me!

Kaycie wrote: "Sarah - I completely missed this, too, and was going to go back and check. Glad it wasn't just me!"

Sarah wrote: " Chapter 2 only

I want to review a couple of things about the chapter before I post, but could you tell me where it tells us that Blanca is the third person narrator? I completely missed that."

It's page 51.

Ami- What book version ate you reading? My hardback copy doesn't have anything on page 51. Can you mention what part you are referring to?

I had started thinking of the narrator as just a voice. It was actually becoming jarring to me when Esteban wound start narrating.

My question, if the 3rd person narrator is Blanca, why does she refer to herself in the third person? That's why I assumed that the narrator wasn't part of the story.

Chapter 2 Only
Kaycie wrote: "Ami- What book version ate you reading? My hardback copy doesn't have anything on page 51. Can you mention what part you are referring to?

I had started thinking of the narrator as just a voice. I..."

Kaycie, please forgive me...I was going crazy not able to find it thinking I goofed and gave something away-momentary meltdown over here!

Esteban's POV is so forthright, firm and in one direction; I think, the granddaughter remains omniscient to give us a panoramic view instead of Esteban's bird's eye view? Until she herself reveals it, if she does at all, it's pure speculation (on my part) that it's officially her.

Here's the passage which led me to believe his granddaughter is the other narrator...That's why I can't go along with my granddaughter's story about class struggle. Previous to this sentence, the 3rd person narrator is discussing the plight of the peasants. I felt this narrator has a female voice, which is nice because it balances out Esteban's very male POV.

I think Blanca is the daughter and Alba the granddaughter, if I'm not mistaken...?

Sarah wrote: "It's on page 51 for me. I think Ami meant Alba. It's right when Esteban tells everyone that they can stay and work or they can leave. As she's telling this part, he interjects with "That's why I..."

Which is funny because isn't the movie told from the POV of Blanca, the daughter...It's been so long ago, I can't remember?

"I think Blanca is the daughter and Alba the granddaughter, if I'm not mistaken..."

Yep.

And... "Which is funny because isn't the movie told from the POV of Blanca, the daughter..."

Yes. Like this there are some flashbacks to Esteban and Clara's lives before, but then it revolves around Blanca.

Ami- no worries, I'm actually pretty far through the book. And yes, I mistakenly said Blanca, I think because I was replying to Sarah's post, and just convinced myself that's who it was.

Hmm... Im super glad you pointed out that passage. I did read that, but for some reason didn't connect it to the granddaughter being a narrator! Great catch! And that clears up all of my confusion! Perfect!

Chapter 2


One quick thing. I was looking up something about the movie and apparently this is meant to be set in Chile. I believe Allende is Peruvian by birth but grew up in Chile. This makes me wonder if there are things she observed that led her to write this book.

So, Esteban. My mom was forced to watch the movie with me several times back when I was a teenager and first started watching it. At the end of chapter two I told her that, if anything, Esteban's character was actually even more vile in the book than the movie. She was surprised that this was possible :)

Ami, you said the Ferula was the epitome of a guilt ridden spinster. My impression was actually that she felt superior because of her suffering and therefore sought it out. I don't necessarily think she was this way in the beginning, but I had an impression that she wanted to suffer.

That scene over the Viennese coffee was so heartbreaking. 15 years old and he's saved up all that he could for this one beautiful experience. Then it goes so badly. I wonder if this was a critical point in the building of his character? If he had been able to drink that coffee or at least buy another, how would that have changed the course of his life? Would he have felt that he had to possess everything if this one crucial moment had gone the other way? To compound the sadness and trauma, he goes home and Ferula tells him it was God's punishment? This is horrible! This was the one time that I actually felt badly for him. It was a soul crushing moment.

It's interesting that he comes from a poorer background, works desperately for wages, and then oppresses "his" peasants.

As I've gone back through this chapter I've been particularly interested in Esteban's opinion of himself. He seems absolutely desperate to prove that he's a good patron, despite all of the atrocities that he engages in. Here are some examples of what I mean:

"He cherished the idea of setting up a dining hall where every child would receive one full-course meal a day, so that they would grow up strong and healthy and be able to start work at a tender age." I feel like he starts out with this opinion of himself as the benevolent patron and then the "start work at a tender age" accidentally slips out and shows more of his true personality.

Another: " 'They're degenerate ideas,' he muttered. 'Bolshevik ideas designed to turn the tenants against me. What they don't realize is that these poor people are completely ignorant and uneducated. They're like children, they can't handle responsibility.' " Again it seems that he wants to emphasize that he's doing what's in their best interest. Like the way he treats his people is a kindness.

It seems critical to him to think of himself in a positive light. Even going to the point of some very impractical ideas, like the dining hall or the school. What is this imbalance of caring for his peasants but keeping them oppressed at the same time?

I had the most trouble with the scene where he kicks the hen, splitting open its belly and then leaving it to die. It's incredibly cruel and I will never get that image out of my head.

One of the other gems from this particular chapter:

"The immense meals in the club, the cockfights, and the afternoons in the brothel all culminated in a clever, although by no means original, plan for making sure that the peasants exercised their right to vote. The patrones threw them a big party with empanadas and lots of wine, barbecued a few cows specially slaughtered for the occasion, serenaded them with songs accompanied on the guitar, beat them over the head with a few political harangues, and promised them that if the conservative candidate won the election they would all receive a bonus, but that if he lost they would lose their jobs. In addition, they rigged the ballot boxes and bribed the police. At the end of the party they piled the peasants onto wooden carts and hauled them off to vote, under careful observation, amidst much joking and laughter. It was the intimacy: pal this and pal that, don't worry, patron, I'm on your team, you can count on me, that's the way I like it, pal, it's nice to see you have a patriotic conscience, you know the liberals and radicals are all a bunch of morons and the Communists are atheist bastards who eat little children.

And here's the clencher on this one: "On the day of the election everything went according to plan, in perfect order. The armed forces were there to uphold the democratic process..."

It is truly remarkable the way that humans can justify anything to themselves.

I apologize for not getting this in sooner. I kept waiting for the ideas to come together in my head and it just wasn't happening. On to Chapter 3!

Chapters 1 & 2 only
Sarah wrote: " Chapter 2


One quick thing. I was looking up something about the movie and apparently this is meant to be set in Chile. I believe Allende is Peruvian by birth but grew up in Chile. This makes..."

Ami, you said the Ferula was the epitome of a guilt ridden spinster. My impression was actually that she felt superior because of her suffering and therefore sought it out. I don't necessarily think she was this way in the beginning, but I had an impression that she wanted to suffer.

I say guilt ridden because as Holier than thou as she is, I feel she's filled with hate and so much of it...For her mother, her brother and herself. She's a masochist humiliating herself the way she does all for getting in the express lane to heaven? Férula overcompensates for her ill-feelings towards her situation.

Viennese Coffee

I think this incident shaped the course of his life moving forward, but Férula's words shaped his character. It was after that moment where he felt she was the ominous being in his life and he had to get away from her. And despite his feelings towards his sister and mother, when he prospered, he sent them the best of everything where they would want for nothing-he took very good care of them.

It's interesting that he comes from a poorer background, works desperately for wages, and then oppresses "his" peasants.

Well, see I thought this was interesting too. But Esteban also comes from an aristocratic lineage through his mother's side. He has always been aware of his post in life. Remember when he was sent off to school wrapped up in newspapers because he did not own the proper under garments...He was humiliated by their dire circumstances. You would think he would have more empathy for their (peasants) plight, growing up poor, but he compensates by bettering their circumstances as well as his own. I can't help but think, despite his actions, he did more good for the peasants than they could have achieved on their own. The problem arises when all the improvements he has made only work for the short term and not long term. Esteban is a prisoner of his own convictions.

I'll comment on the rest tomorrow ...I remember the dying hen and don't want to take it to bed with me.

Ami wrote: "I say guilt ridden because as Holier than thou as she is, I feel she's filled with hate and so much of it...For her mother, her brother and herself. She's a masochist humiliating herself the way she does all for getting in the express lane to heaven? Férula overcompensates for her ill-feelings towards her situation..."

This is a perfect description. It's exactly what I felt when it was describing her situation.

I actually would love to talk a bit more about why he's attempting to improve the peasants to a certain degree. This was puzzling to me. I also like the way you said that he is "a prisoner of his own convictions". This another perfect description.

Chapters 1-4, Ferula and Esteban personalities

Sarah said: "Ami, you said the Ferula was the epitome of a guilt ridden spinster. My impression was actually that she felt superior because of her suffering and therefore sought it out. I don't necessarily think she was this way in the beginning, but I had an impression that she wanted to suffer."

I had such ridiculously different impressions of Ferula and Esteban after reading that I really wanted to talk about this. I am wondering if there is somewhat a bias maybe that comes from seeing the movie first, or if I just have a very different personality myself! :-)

Anyways, I see Ferula as, so far (and I am over half way through) as the most pitiable character, and the one I feel for more than almost any other. Yes, the ways that she treated Esteban as a child were horrible, but I think that (in the same way part of who Esteban is comes from how Ferula raised him), her personality also comes from her situation. Like Esteban, she lost her father at a young age and had a very sick mother. Unlike Esteban, however, she had to step up and learn how to raise a kid and take care of her ailing mother when she was only a kid herself. Unlike Esteban, she doesn't have an escape. Its much harder for her to leave the house to earn money or to get a well-paying job or to escape her life. As I see it, she had two options: somehow find and marry a rich guy, or stay home and take care of her mother. She chose the latter out of love for her mother and brother and not wanting to see them abandoned.

Ami said: "I say guilt ridden because as Holier than thou as she is, I feel she's filled with hate and so much of it...For her mother, her brother and herself. "

I do not get this impression from her AT ALL! I also do not think she is filled with hate, but quite the opposite. She is full of love and so desperate to find someone to love her back! She gave her whole entire life to helping her sick mother and raising her brother and all her brother can do is leave, never to return, and her mother's last wish is to see her son one last time. I think it is just so incredibly heartbreaking! Ferula spends her life sacrificing to others because she thinks that it will make them love and appreciate her, and it really just leads to her downfall. I found Ferula's entire story to be completely heart-wrenching.

Just look at how she reacts with Clara. Clara, who, lets face it, can barely spare a thought for others, provides more love to Ferula than she had ever seen in her whole entire life. That is so sad to me! And Ferula responds beautifully. Yes, she takes things a bit far with her feelings for Clara, but I can only imagine how I would be if I spent my life loving the people around me and trying to receive love from someone and finally found one person who was willing to give anything.

I do think that Ferula made mistakes and was too harsh on those around her. Part of that stems from having to be harsh on herself at such a young age in order to keep the family on its feet. Also, part of it was her way of trying to get people to love her through indebtedness, mixed with jealousy of Esteban. He was able to leave the situation and better himself, whereas Ferula was always just waiting for his handouts. I'm sure Ferula had dreams of her own similar to the Vienesse coffee that she could not fulfill, and "God's punishment" is her own way of justifying to herself why she cannot have these things. I don't think she was trying to damage Esteban or make him feel guilty. She just thought that if God wouldn't allow her to have those things, then why should God allow Esteban? I personally found it disgusting that Ferula worked so hard to send Esteban to school, giving all of the money she ever made to him or to food for the family, and he takes his first wages and gets a coffee without even thinking of all that Ferula gave up to get him to a point where he could earn wages in an office. He didn't even see the years that Ferula sacrificed as something that she did for him, and accuses her of basically bringing it on herself. If Ferula wasn't the way she was, Esteban wouldn't have had much of a chance in life.

I think that is why Ferula spent so much time praying, as well. She just learned from experience that the love she was to receive wasn't going to come in her mortal lifetime, and needed to think that someone would love her. She is doing everything she thinks she can do to assure God's love in the afterlife.

Ami said: "he sent them the best of everything where they would want for nothing-he took very good care of them."

He sent them the best of what he was willing to offer. All Ferula wanted was to feel loved and appreciated and part of a family, and Esteban was never willing to give her that. He never seemed to appreciate the sacrifices she made to raise him and take care of their mother, chalking it all up to self-inflicted self-sacrifice.

Sarah said: "It seems critical to him to think of himself in a positive light."
"It is truly remarkable the way that humans can justify anything to themselves."

Yup!! That is human nature, right? It is too damaging to your psyche to think that you did something horribly wrong, so human nature allows you to spin it in a positive light! That's why I love reading...sometimes you can get so in your head with an idea or thought process, and no matter what it is, you will be able to justify it. I love that reading makes you look at these situations from different views and can kind of shock you out of your own prejudices and show you that what you were CERTAIN was right may not have been. Or at least that there is another side to the story.

Ami said: "But Esteban also comes from an aristocratic lineage through his mother's side. He has always been aware of his post in life."

Yes, I think this is 100% the reason. There is a part in Chapter 6 (I'll talk about it next week!) where this is really cemented in for me. Basically, even when he was poor and breaking his back, he never would have considered himself in the same class as the peasants. Now that he is rich, he is definitely a different class and cannot relate at all.

I haven't turned on my computer so I didn't get a chance to respond. I don't want to read the whole thing, but I wanted to tell you that Ferula actually had a fairly small part in the movie. There's a scene where they're at the dining table and I think he's telling her he's going to Tres Maria's. Then there's this unholy racket as the mom flips out and calls for her. Then if course she's in it briefly after Esteban marries Clara. At that point she really blooms.

I can't imagine how it would feel to sacrifice your own life to care for your mother. I can see where someone might need an explanation for that suffering. And for the fact that she's left behind while others get to have their own lives.

I still think she's an angry, frustrated, bitter woman. But who could really blame her?

Please do not begin posting for Chapters 5 & 6 until Friday, October 10th. We apologize for the slight delay and thank you for your patience<\b>.

Kaycie wrote: "Chapters 1-4, Ferula and Esteban personalities

Sarah said: "Ami, you said the Ferula was the epitome of a guilt ridden spinster. My impression was actually that she felt superior because of her s..."

Chapters 1 & 2

THE MOVIE: you're right, there could be a bias, but in the movie I actually felt very sorry for Férula. My bottom-line is I don't find one sibling (Férula and Esteban) to be any better than the other while reading this book.

I do not get this impression from her AT ALL! I also do not think she is filled with hate, but quite the opposite. She is full of love and so desperate to find someone to love her back! She gave her whole entire life to helping her sick mother and raising her brother and all her brother can do is leave, never to return, and her mother's last wish is to see her son one last time. I think it is just so incredibly heartbreaking! Ferula spends her life sacrificing to others because she thinks that it will make them love and appreciate her, and it really just leads to her downfall. I found Ferula's entire story to be completely heart-wrenching.

Férula is pitiful, yes, but she elicits that pity in people...She wants everybody to know what she's sacrificed to take care of her mother. But let's be honest, Férula didn't accept the duty out of love, she did so out of obligation. If you are living your life "in the name of God," then shouldn't you be so much more humble than Férula actually is-my point is she wants the attention, she self deprecates (not verbally, I'll admit, but she knows how to evoke it), she wants the acclaim from Esteban saying she too has sacrificed for her family-this is not Godly behavior...Is it? Again, for somebody who is so pious, I would think she would go about her life in a more loving and self-effacing manner. When I said Férula was filled with hate, I didn't mean it in the sense that she is evil, or that hate consumes her; but she is resentful and hate does live within her. When Rosa died, Férula felt a strange shiver, almost of joy, while sending Esteban a telegram notifying him of the tragic event...Is this typical behavior of a woman filled with love (44).
Here's another example. Aimed at Esteban...
'I would like to have been born a man, so I could leave too,' she said, full of hatred(45).

Somebody whose fate is sealed, choosing to endure daily humiliations as a form of penance, Férula mistakes godliness for masochism. She is not as pure of heart as she thinks she is.
(Hate) For herself and mother...

And, much as she hated herself for these torturous and unconfessionable pleasures, she hated her mother more for being their instrument(42).

I don't feel completely sorry for Férula. Afterall, you reap what you sow.

He sent them the best of what he was willing to offer. All Ferula wanted was to feel loved and appreciated and part of a family, and Esteban was never willing to give her that.

Nevertheless, if what he sent was only what he was willing to give, then what he was willing to give was still the best of everything-It's not love, sure, but it's dutiful and Férula behaves the same way towards her mother. You say Férula wanted love, but don't you have to be open to it in order to accept it...Is she? How do you love somebody who gives you a cold goodbye on the cheek...somebody who is relieved not to see you for many years(46)? I would find it difficult to love someone like her too, despite Férula's circumstance at the time. This might be a familial theme...Love versus obligation?

He never seemed to appreciate the sacrifices she made to raise him and take care of their mother, chalking it all up to self-inflicted self-sacrifice.

It's so much easier to appreciate the good people do for others when the situation is organic and not contrived. You don't always have to speak about your miserable life,actions do speak louder than words, and Férula is a prime example of this. Esteban harbors very ill feelings towards his upbringing, a childhood of discomfort, harshness, interminable night time rosaries, fear and guilt by Férula (46).

I'm sure Ferula had dreams of her own similar to the Vienesse coffee that she could not fulfill, and "God's punishment" is her own way of justifying to herself why she cannot have these things.

I don't understand this mentality of "if I can't have it, then why should he (in general, not just pertaining to this section)?" Mother's medicine aside, Férula made the "choice" of not having it (be it a Viennese Coffee, a husband and life of her own), Esteban does not, why punish him...He's a child, she's only 5 years his senior.

I don't think she was trying to damage Esteban or make him feel guilty

She does make him feel guilty and it was in that moment Esteban saw clearly the ways his sister used to keep him down and how she managed to make him feel guilty(44). Both brother and sister have this innate yearning to keep people under their thumb, Esteban with the locals, and Férula with Esteban. These two characters are essentially one in the same, or "two sides of the same coin."

Ami wrote: "These two characters are essentially one in the same, or "two sides of the same coin..."

This is great imagery and I think you're right.

Chapters 3 and 4

Chapter 3

First and foremost: What the hell was Esteban THINKING when he had Barrabas turned into a freaking rug?!?!?!

I think I'm going to do this in the order of my highlights since the chapter moves around a bit.

Ferula's desire to feel/be a martyr is hard for me to comprehend in this section. She goes into the slums to pray and say a rosary for the poor KNOWING that they're going to threw garbage at her, dumped chamber pots onto her, and spat on her all while she's weeping her lament of humiliation. I really can understand resenting your situation and finding solace in religion but to me she does this in a way that makes her feel like she's superior. She's willing to go through all of this in order to beg forgiveness for those who know not what they do. She subjects herself to the utmost misery but with a perhaps unconscious ulterior motive.

Esteban is obviously a barbarian and... words I can't say here. Still I liked it when it says that he's not bothered by any of her quirks much less by Clara's prolonged silence, which he considered a virtue. This really made me laugh. It's like he wants a wife to just be there and keep her mouth shut. Which is probably what he does want initially, although not later when he's so obsessed.

Also, once they become engaged He was overcome with happiness. As he got into his carriage, he was smiling, unable to believe his good fortune and not understanding how such a charming girl as Clara could have accepted his proposal without even being acquainted with him. Again I laughed because I think it was the not being acquainted with him that would be the only reason someone would actually marry that guy.

But then it takes a fascinating turn. He did not know that she (Clara) had seen her own destiny, that she had summoned him with the power of her thought, and that she had already made up her mind to marry without love For me, this brings up a whole lot of fascinating info. First, was it the power of her summoning that made him decide to get married and to marry her? Second, and this one is huge for me, she summons him after seeing her destiny - does this mean that he was her destiny or that she was trying to avoid her destiny by marrying him? I'm inclined to the latter because of the marrying without love comment. But this is a woman who is very connected to the spirits and does not seemed inclined to go against her destiny. So why him and why is she marrying without love?

The house was fascinating. The way that Clara keeps adding on and changing things. This strongly reminded me of the Winchester house in California. The winchestermysterhouse.com site even calls this "The house built by the spirits". Here is one of the descriptions:

"The miles of twisting hallways are made even more intriguing by secret passageways in the walls. Mrs. Winchester traveled through her house in a roundabout fashion, supposedly to confuse any mischievous ghosts that might be following her."

So I read this passage in the book: He could hardly guess that the solemn, cubic, dense, pompous house, which sat like a hat amid its green and geometric surroundings, would end up full of protuberances and incrustations, of twisted staircases that led to empty spaces, of turrets, of small windows that could not be opened, doors hanging in midair, crooked hallways, and portholes that linked the living quarters... I got really excited as I was reading this and remembering the Winchester house. It hardly seems like it could be a coincidence. The Winchester house has fascinated me since I first heard about this and between this and the séances I'm really excited about where this is going.

It's interesting how much devotion Clara inspires. First Nana and then Ferula bathe her. Ferula and Esteban both become completely obsessed. Clara lives off in her own little world, but if these people didn't bathe and powder and pamper her, would Clara come out of her fog and live in the real world?

Chapter 4

I think it's interesting that once Clara moves out to Tres Marias, she starts to actually come out into the world. She sews, goes to the grocery store, treats the peasants for mange and lice, and starts teaching the peasants. And preaching to them on her liberal ideas. Boy, I could see Esteban's reaction coming there. This is another thing that shows she's completely clueless to real life. She has no idea how the world works and how to mix with it. She's so busy being in her little pampered cloud, that coming down to earth is not something she appears to be capable of.

Oh, the corset and the mouse... What an absurd scene. It was a good way of showing Ferula's distress with the countryside but how in the hell do you get a mouse in your corset??? By sleeping in it? It's too bizarre. And yes, hysterics would follow for just about anyone. But Esteban, in his utterly clueless way that once again shows that he's completely incapable of empathy just blames it on menopause! By lack of empathy I'm not even saying that he has no compassion. It's like he's completely incapable of understanding how other people think.

I was shocked to see Clara pregnant again. That was completely unexpected for me. And twins to boot! I loved it when they were going back home and they're on the train platform "I think I'm going to elevate," she said. "Not here!" I shouted, terrified at the idea of Clara flying over the heads of the passengers along the track. But she wasn't talking about physical levitation; she meant... This scene made me laugh. It shows how bizarre their relationship is. Her spiritual abilities, his lack of ability to understand people... It's all a recipe for disaster.

I enjoyed seeing Blanca's relationship with Pedro II being developed. They connected so immediately and intensely and then they go on to be so close despite their stations.

Ferula's relationship with Clara is very interesting. She becomes so obsessed and gets engaged in these power plays for Clara's affections. Nana, Esteban. Although it doesn't seem like the act of sleeping in the bed with Clara deserves the punishment Ferula received, I can't help but think that if she hadn't been trying to edge Esteban out it wouldn't have happened.

Esteban has shown himself to be obsessive and controlling anyway, but it seems like Clara inspires this emotion in people.

I know I'm missing some stuff but for some reason this is where my notes end. Inspire me ladies!

Sarah wrote: " Chapters 3 and 4

Chapter 3

First and foremost: What the hell was Esteban THINKING when he had Barrabas turned into a freaking rug?!?!?!

I think I'm going to do this in the order of my highligh..."

Chapter 3 & 4

Barrabas' untimely death...A piece of me died. I knew something tragic was in store for him from the point at which it is described how he followed Clara around everywhere and their sleeping habits-their relationship was so special. In fact, I'd scrap the rest of the story to find out who was behind that terrible offense. I skimmed over the part describing how he laid his head on Clara's lap, gazing up at her, slowly dying. You said it well in your post, Esteban is just out of touch with people, having gifted her with a Barrabas rug was a prime example. And to add insult to injury (mine any ways), they just threw the rug in the basement with all of her other junk!

She goes into the slums to pray and say a rosary for the poor KNOWING that they're going to threw garbage at her, dumped chamber pots onto her, and spat on her all while she's weeping her lament of humiliation.I really can understand resenting your situation and finding solace in religion but to me she does this in a way that makes her feel like she's superior.

I'm going to take this a step further and say, she uses her Catholicism as a smoke screen-it's not a genuine display of piety...Despite the good deeds and sacrifice, she is just as appalled by the poor as Esteban is. In chapter 4, we read about how she's the only one who wants to return to the city because of the conditions in the country referring to it as an uncivilized purgatory(108), but she also couldn't handle Blanca looking like a cannibal, playing with that dirty boy Pedro Tercero feeling sorry for her because the child had no one of her own class to mix with...(107). Again, I just don't understand how somebody who is supposedly so religious can behave like this. Also, didn't she live in squalor much worse while taking care of her mother...How are the conditions in the country that much worse?

First, was it the power of her summoning that made him decide to get married and to marry her? Second, and this one is huge for me, she summons him after seeing her destiny - does this mean that he was her destiny or that she was trying to avoid her destiny by marrying him? I'm inclined to the latter because of the marrying without love comment. But this is a woman who is very connected to the spirits and does not seemed inclined to go against her destiny. So why him and why is she marrying without love?

I think she summoned him, or else why would she say, I've been expecting you to Esteban when he comes to see her? I think her destiny was to marry Esteban and she's always known it. By not marrying him, would have gone against her destiny because their union must serve a greater purpose...Why else would Clara, who is very in tune with spirits, be completely oblivious to the warnings the spirits that gestured desperately at her from behind the curtains while dancing with Esteban(90)?

It's interesting how much devotion Clara inspires. First Nana and then Ferula bathe her. Ferula and Esteban both become completely obsessed. Clara lives off in her own little world, but if these people didn't bathe and powder and pamper her, would Clara come out of her fog and live in the real world?

No, I don't think Clara would come out of her fog and live in the real world at all-she would probably fall deeper into her world full of spirits rather-She's not of this world. Clara needs people like Nana, Nieva and Férula to take care of her, not just for basic living skills, but to keep her in the real world as much as possible. Clara's life is very dreamlike for the most part, living the way she does, but after acquiring a husband and children, I was actually irritated with her for being so frivolous with it all. My irritation stems from holding Clara to present day standards of living. Taking magical realism into consideration, I have no qualms.

I can't help but think that if she hadn't been trying to edge Esteban out it wouldn't have happened.

Férula is sly and very manipulative. She finally is open to accepting and giving genuine love from someone, and it ends up being Clara. Now that Férula has it, she does not want to let it go. It's so sick how she wedged herself in between her brother and his wife, scheming to ensure a secure place with Clara. Little did she realize, she didn't have to plot to maintain her relationship with Clara-they were bonded as sisters. Did you get the feeling her intentions with Clara, at times, were a bit sordid in nature?

Esteban has shown himself to be obsessive and controlling anyway, but it seems like Clara inspires this emotion in people.

I felt suffocated reading about Esteban wanting to control Clara, I could feel the pressure from his words around my neck.

I can't respond to everything at the moment but on the spirits warnings at the engagement party, I thought this actually ended up being about Barrabas. Like these were her personal spirits and they were trying to tell her about him.

Chapter 3 & 4

I found the beginning of Chapter 3 to be pretty laughable with all of the attempts on Clara, provoking her to laugh- Nana was relentless! I loved how Clara became immune to all of the antics versus developing terrible phobias.

There's a section where Clara interprets dreams;the one about the twins joined at the shoulders, each carrying a sword? She deciphers it's meaning to be, the twins are husband and wife forced to share a single destiny, perpetually wounding one another with blows from their sword... I found this to be rather meaty because of its possible inference to Esteban and Clara's marriage (76).

I love Allende's ability to describe a circumstance within a scene, but I wonder as to why certain scenes are given so much importance; for example, Barrabas and his libido. Nothing was going to keep him away from any dog in heat, but the aftermath of him having had his way with them and coming home days later...This particular necessity to draw attention to the barbarism associated with Barrabas' proclivities made my stomach turn-many of these instances are animal related too.

The disparity between the classes, a running theme, was brought up again when Clara joins her mother to attend a rally. Clara, being oblivious to real world occurrences, observes and takes note of the absurdity of the situation ...about the contrast between her mother and her friends, in their fur coats and suéde boots, speaking of oppression, equality and rights to a sad, resigned group of hard-working women in denim aprons, their hands red with chilblains. After delivering food and clothes to the slums, Clara with formidable intuition realizes charity had no effect on such monumental injustice(81).

Férula, my favorite Férula, may I ask what she's been doing with all of the money Esteban has been sending her for the past 15 years...Giving it to the poor? They did not have to live in those terrible conditions. I understand Férula has an aversion to excess (supposedly), but did they have to live in squalor? Also, if she considered extravagance to be wastefulness and a mortal sin that God would punish then why was she the only one contesting living in the country, she was the only one wanting to return to the city...How were the conditions in the country an worse than what she chose to live in while caring for her mother?

In Chapter 4, Pedro Garcia tells both Pedro III and Blanca a story about the hens and fox...
...the hens joined forces to confront a fox who came into the chicken coop every night to steal eggs and eat the baby chicks.
...The hens decided they had enough of the fox's abuse.
...They waited for him in a group and when he entered the chicken coop they blocked his path, surrounded him, and pecked him half to death before he know what had happened.
...'And that fox escaped with his tail between his legs, with all the hens chasing after him,' the old man finished

Did anybody else pick up on a potential parallel between this story and the current situation with the peasants at Tres Marias...Esteban being the fox and the hens as the peasants? I felt this was a foreshadowing as well that something game changing will occur and transition the relationship between Esteban and the peasants. What's even more interesting is the reaction to the story by both Pedro III and Blanca...Blanca laughed at the story and said it was impossible, because hens are born stupid and weak and foxes are born astute and strong, but Pedro III did not laugh...He ruminated on the story of the fox and the hens. Without realizing an association, Blanca has conveyed the ideology of Esteban, while Pedro III remains quiet having had an epiphany (141).

Sarah wrote: "I can't respond to everything at the moment but on the spirits warnings at the engagement party, I thought this actually ended up being about Barrabas. Like these were her personal spirits and they..."

Yes, they were in reference to Barrabas, his death at the wedding being a terrible omen. If she would have heeded the spirits' warning, the wedding would have ceased to proceed, going against her destiny. Barrabas had to die further emphasizing the damning nature of the union?

What do you think of the comment about Clara deciding to marry without love?

Sarah wrote: "What do you think of the comment about Clara deciding to marry without love?"

Well, I think she knew her union with Esteban was going to serve a bigger purpose and love didn't matter to her. She's so much more aware to how everything is going to play out than anybody else because of her intuition. Clara being of a different world, I don't think thrives on being given love in order to sustain themselves like Esteban and Férula-Esteban wants to be revered as the best patron, he yearns to be loved because he deserves it-Férula wants to be revered as the loving and caring daughter who sacrificed her life, she too wants to be loved. Maybe it doesn't even have to do with Clara being from a different world, it could be that she was given the attention and care while growing up, when Esteban and Férula were deprived of proper nurturing? Wouldn't that also answer the question behind their need for so much control over people?

Kaycie wrote: "Chapters 1-4, Ferula and Esteban personalities

Sarah said: "Ami, you said the Ferula was the epitome of a guilt ridden spinster. My impression was actually that she felt superior because of her s..."

Chapters 1-4

He didn't even see the years that Ferula sacrificed as something that she did for him, and accuses her of basically bringing it on herself. If Ferula wasn't the way she was, Esteban wouldn't have had much of a chance in life.

Why would he, he funded her sacrifice from beginning to end. She could have made a better life for herself and her mother, but she chose to live the way they did, she chose to be humiliated in the slums, she chose to be humiliated by her daily tasks, all in the name of God...Férula isn't pious, she's prideful. I don't think we can argue who did the most and come out having a distinct winner, after all, isn't that what's happening between them in the book...Do we have a winner? Esteban has always known who he was and where he came from regardless of his family's financial standings. I don't think Férula had anymore of a hand in his success than the exterminator from the city did in driving out the ants from Tres Marias. Férula shaped his inner psyche which is dark and tormented thus exhibited in his treatment of those around him-I don't see her as a positive influence on him at all.

Chapters 1-4

Why would he, he funded her sacrifice from beginning to end. She could have made a better life for herself and her mother, but she chose to live the way they did, she chose to be humiliated in the slums, she chose to be humiliated by her daily tasks, all in the name of God...

Esteban did not fund her sacrifice from beginning to end - only once he was old enough to leave and earn a paycheck. Ferula sacrificed for years with her sewing to bring in enough money to put food on the table while still sending Esteban to school so that he could receive an education. This was also before Esteban was old enough to earn his own money. She could have married someone else and left Esteban with their mother, who never would have cared for him and he may not have grown up at all, let alone to be successful.

I do think we are on way opposite ends of the spectrum on Ferula and its going to stay that way. I agree she isn't the worlds nicest person and does have her own motives, but people's own hidden motives never matter to me. Whether people admit it or not, everyone has a hidden motive for everything. People don't do charity for the sake of a charity ever...even the purest motives are "because it makes me feel good," which is also, technically, selfish. If Ferula's motive was to be recognized and loved, I don't see that as anything different.

Anyways, I also watched the movie this weekend! I still like Ferula, perhaps more in the movie because they talk less about her less desirable motives.

I am surprised though at how much the movie and the book differ, and cannot wait until we get into those discussions. (I will be leaving for vacation next week, and will be gone for 2. I'll pick up when I am back!) I don't think I would have loved this story without the book. The movie emphasized some of my least favorite parts and didn't even include my favorites. I am curious to see what end up being your favorites, having seen the movie first and reading the book second.

In Chapter 4, Pedro Garcia tells both Pedro III and Blanca a story about the hens and fox...

I love this!! I love seeing the differences between Blanca and Pedro III even from this really early stage. I agree absolutely that this is key to the relationship between Esteban and the peasants, and one of the things I disliked about the movie was that parts like this were cut. I think that even this subtle foreshadowing adds so much to the story.

I love Allende's ability to describe a circumstance within a scene, but I wonder as to why certain scenes are given so much importance; for example, Barrabas and his libido. Nothing was going to keep him away from any dog in heat, but the aftermath of him having had his way with them and coming home days later...This particular necessity to draw attention to the barbarism associated with Barrabas' proclivities made my stomach turn-many of these instances are animal related too.

I actually saw this as a parallel between Barrabas and Esteban. Didn't he do essentially the same things with the peasant women in a very similar fashion? It might not be exactly the same physically, but I saw Esteban's rapes and abandonment of the peasant women and their subsequent children as equally as barbaric. And Clara's relationship with Barrabas ends on the day that her relationship with Esteban began.

I know there is so much more that I am not commenting on here that you ladies bought up, but I am having a hard time finding lots of time this week, sorry!

I will just note that I do not find either Esteban or Clara to be incredibly likable people. I agree that Clara is "not of this world", but I also know that I tend to dislike many of those flighty qualities in a person. I am a huge fan of the supporting cast, though, in Pedro Garcia, Nana, etc, and they really help make this story for me.

Ami wrote: " She deciphers it's meaning to be, the twins are husband and wife forced to share a single destiny, perpetually wounding one another with blows from their sword... I found this to be rather meaty because of its possible inference to Esteban and Clara's marriage ..."

This could also be read as Ferula and Esteban. They're born as siblings and certainly seem to be forever at odds.

...This particular necessity to draw attention to the barbarism associated with Barrabas' proclivities made my stomach turn-many of these instances are animal related too.

I'm having a very hard time with some of these casual depictions of violence towards animals. It's been very upsetting to me.

Did anybody else pick up on a potential parallel between this story and the current situation with the peasants at Tres Marias...Esteban being the fox and the hens as the peasants?

I think this is the beginning of Pedro III's ideas of rebellion. I can see that it's going to fuel his ideas in the future.

Clara being of a different world, I don't think thrives on being given love in order to sustain themselves like Esteban and Férula

I think not needing love is different from actually making a conscious decision to marry without love. The way this is worded makes me think it was an internal debate and decision.

Kaycie said: Esteban did not fund her sacrifice from beginning to end - only once he was old enough to leave and earn a paycheck. Ferula sacrificed for years with her sewing to bring in enough money to put food on the table while still sending Esteban to school so that he could receive an education. This was also before Esteban was old enough to earn his own money. She could have married someone else and left Esteban with their mother, who never would have cared for him and he may not have grown up at all, let alone to be successful

It does seem that Ferula sacrificed a lot in order to care for her mother and raise Esteban. She's even extremely frustrated when he gets a job to help with income. That was one instance that it didn't feel like it was control related. I felt that she was genuinely frustrated that her efforts weren't enough. I think Ferula is a person that clamps down on her own needs and desires so strongly that it bleeds out into her interactions with others. Actually there was a quote in chapter 4 She had no gift for small perturbations, mean-spirited resentments, concealed envies, works of charity, faded endearments, ordinary friendly politeness, or day-to-day acts of kindness. She was one of those people who are born for the greatness of a single love, for exaggerated hatred, for apocalyptic vengeance, and for the most sublime forms of heroism, but she was unable to shape her fate to the dimensions of her amorous vocation, so it was lived out as something flat and gray trapped between her mother's sickroom walls, wretched tenements, and the tortured confessions with which this large, opulent, hot-blooded woman - made for maternity, abundance, action, and ardor - was consuming herself. The 'exaggerated hatred' and 'apocalyptic vengeance' were particularly interesting to me. I think this quote really sums Ferula up well. There's this intensity that's channeled into areas that she can actually control, but it leaves her bitter and angry that her life is so limited. Unfortunately I also feel that she copes with her life in a way that allows her to feel superior and causes her to try to dominate others based on her views. She is perhaps a tragic character, a character that is formed by circumstances, but I still think that she should not have attempted to force Esteban into her mold. And I think this formed a large part of his personality. Ami, you commented on her feelings for Clara being somewhat sordid. I think this is definitely the case, but I wouldn't say that Ferula normally leans in that direction. I think she's got so much intensity buttoned down in there that once she has an outlet in the form of Clara all of her restrained emotion pours out in that direction, including her more sensual and erotic emotions. Every ounce of her is suddenly focused on Clara.

There's actually one thing that is never answered as far as I know. We're debating what she did with the money that Esteban sent her but we don't know how much he sent her. Esteban may think it's enough to provide her with every comfort, but look at him! It could be the same amount he was earning while he lived there.

even the purest motives are "because it makes me feel good,"

Oh, this is so true. For everyone because we all have to live with ourselves in the end. Esteban is one of the best literary examples of self-justification that I've ever seen.

Kaycie, I like your observation that Barrabas dies on the day that her relationship with Esteban began. It's something that I didn't even notice. I don't know why Allende chooses to have these pieces that seem to be showing a very barbaric life. Is this something she grew up with? Heard stories about? Or is there some other reason?

I'm glad you got to see the movie Kaycie. It's rather disturbing so I can see why people wouldn't like it. Actually, my mom has never been able to figure out why I like it. She was forced to watch it with me a few times when I was still a teenager. I know there are a lot of differences between the two, particularly farther down the road, but I thought they did an excellent job of capturing the essence of the book. At least as much as I've read. Esteban in particular is particularly amazing.

I agree that Clara is "not of this world", but I also know that I tend to dislike many of those flighty qualities in a person

I'm having a much more difficult time with Clara's book character than movie character because of this. She's really annoying in the book. The entire world revolves around her and she's just off in her own little dream world. Everybody else deals with reality so that she won't have to.

So I know I missed a ton of other great stuff in here, but I did the best I could. :)

Kaycie, have fun on your vacation. We'll talk to you when you get back and we're much farther along.

Sarah wrote: "Ami wrote: " She deciphers it's meaning to be, the twins are husband and wife forced to share a single destiny, perpetually wounding one another with blows from their sword... I found this to be ra..."

Chapter 1-4
This could also be read as Ferula and Esteban. They're born as siblings and certainly seem to be forever at odds.

You're right, I think I took the "marriage" aspect too literally.

I think not needing love is different from actually making a conscious decision to marry without love. The way this is worded makes me think it was an internal debate and decision.

See, I don't ever get the feeling Clara contemplates much. She's very as a matter of fact with her decision making and confident about it. If things get too hairy for her...Well, she just passes out. :p I adore her, I do, she's so whimsical...It's scary, funny, and irritating, all at the same time.

The 'exaggerated hatred' and 'apocalyptic vengeance' were particularly interesting to me. I think this quote really sums Ferula up well. There's this intensity that's channeled into areas that she can actually control, but it leaves her bitter and angry that her life is so limited.

I remember this as well. For me it sealed the deal as far as encompassing Férula's inner being. She does exude an overwhelming sense of pride/superiority too.

Ami, you commented on her feelings for Clara being somewhat sordid. I think this is definitely the case, but I wouldn't say that Ferula normally leans in that direction.

No, I agree, I don't think she swims in that pool either. Férula is a pent up bundle of emotion, at a real crossroads with herself, as far as giving and receiving affections unknown known to her.

We're debating what she did with the money that Esteban sent her but we don't know how much he sent her.

He sent them the finest foods and necessities in Chapter 4 and he sent her more than enough after banishing her from Tres Marias. Esteban even wonders himself, what she did with all of the money he was sending her after noticing the conditions in which Férula and her mother lived. Esteban is a class A jerk, I'll admit it, but he's not one to welch on a promise...At least not with anybody who was not a peasant.

but I thought they did an excellent job of capturing the essence of the book. At least as much as I've read. Esteban in particular is particularly amazing.

yes, I completely agree!! I loved the movie and thought they did capture the very best of the book as well!

I'm having a much more difficult time with Clara's book character than movie character because of this. She's really annoying in the book. The entire world revolves around her and she's just off in her own little dream world. Everybody else deals with reality so that she won't have to

well, I felt the same way about Clara's book character but I was holding her up to standards unable for her to reach. I think it was really interesting how Blanca interacts with Clara...There's a quote, I'll find it later and edit, but it was to the effect Blanca took her mother for who she was and didn't have any real maternal expectations of her. On the other hand, Esteban allows Clara to be who she is as well, but only within the constraints of the household; despite her mystical proclivities, he has an expectation of her she will never be able to attain.

Kaycie wrote: "

I actually saw this as a parallel between Barrabas and Esteban. Didn't he do essentially the same things with the peasant women in a very similar fashion? It might not be exactly the same physically, but I saw Esteban's rapes and abandonment of the peasant women and their subsequent children as equally as barbaric. And Clara's relationship with Barrabas ends on the day that her relationship with Esteban began.

Chapters 1-4

Great point!

Chapters 1-5

Kaycie wrote: "Chapters 1-4

Why would he, he funded her sacrifice from beginning to end. She could have made a better life for herself and her mother, but she chose to live the way they did, she chose to be humi..."

If this is the case, then why had his mother wept with grief to see him leave for work so early in the morning when "he was still a boy..." (86)? Esteban left school, still a child, to work at the notary's office because Férula could no longer make ends meet with her sewing business (2,42)-He was making a contribution-Does this not count as funding for the family's sake? How old do you think he was when he started working for the notary? He helped his family as a child, completely taking over the financial responsibilities as a teenager and adult for both his mother and sister until they passed (2,42). Do the years Férula spent taking care of her mother and Esteban surpass the number of years Esteban spent financially taking care of Férula and his mother? I can plainly say, both Férula and Esteban sacrificed, but I don't see Esteban commanding respect for this deed, in particular, like he tends to demand for some of his other exploits-it's interesting.

Whether people admit it or not, everyone has a hidden motive for everything. People don't do charity for the sake of a charity ever...even the purest motives are "because it makes me feel good," which is also, technically, selfish

This is a hasty generalization at best! However, by you embracing the above rationale, I better understand why you do not take Férula's misdeeds as seriously as I do.

I agree she isn't the worlds nicest person and does have her own motives, but people's own hidden motives never matter to me

I'm confused about the last portion of this statement...Are you speaking about hidden motives of characters in books not mattering to you, or something else?

Chapter 5

Chapter 5 laid down some great groundwork for the budding relationship between Blanca and Pedro III and even between Clara and Blanca. Filled with some humorous and cringe worthy events (Férula's passing), I felt effortlessly enraptured into the dynamics of Tres Marías, despite those lacking between the family. Neither Esteban, nor Clara noticed Blanca was growing up to be a fine young woman because they were so immersed into their own lives. It's funny, Nana was the only one aware of Blanca's maturing and the only one who gave her any insight as to what to expect in the coming years.

I thought it was funny when Pedro III, who had not physically matured as much as Blanca, failed to recognize her when she arrived at Tres Marías; sending her into an emotional tailspin (poor thing) and him running off. Their meeting place (Pedro III and Blanca), by the river, is the same place Esteban took advantage of Pedro III's aunt (Pancha) many years before...Ironic?

As I mentioned earlier, this chapter giving us a sense of deeper understanding between the relationship of Blanca and Clara... Although, not much has changed between the two, Blanca enduring her daily life away at school away from Pedro, and Clara making chairs dance throughout the house and paying more attention to fluids and auras (143), we get a greater sense that regardless of the space between the two, they are very closely bonded (mother and daughter)...The relationship between them underwent no major changes with the girl's development, because it was based on the solid principle of mutual acceptance and the ability to laugh together at almost everything (144). Makes you think, does it not...How important it is to just laugh sometimes?

Amidst a family dinner with all of the Trueba children, Esteban carving a roast at the long table, in what seemed like a very idyllic moment, in walks the spirit of recently passed Férula. Her spirit walks over to Clara, kisses her, only to walk out of the house in the same manner she came. I visualized this scene to be very dramatic and poignant in my mind. Férula has passed, I want her to rest in peace, but I would expect nothing less than this type of entrance and exit...The production...Even in her last moments, she was going to sock it to Esteban one last time. When Férula first left the Tres Marías, Clara made many failed attempts in trying to locate her. It was at this time Clara recalled that the Mora Sisters had said, You can't find somebody who doesn't want to be found(133). I was confused by the manner in which Férula's death was conveyed. On one hand, I loved how she walked in and out to announce her passing, but on the other hand, I could not understand why because she did not want to be found for so long?

Férula's living conditions were also noteworthy, still living in meager conditions, comparable to a used-clothing store or a dressing room of a struggling theater company. hanging from a few nails on the wall were old dresses, feather boas, squalid bits of fur, imitation rhinestone necklaces...(150). I thought maybe Férula was living out her life in solitude dressed up as a woman of pseudo stature and post in these clothes and accouterment-the life of the lady she always wanted to be? Despite, the sly and manipulative woman I found Férula to be, I was glad to know the care Férula showered Clara for many years was reciprocated during the last rites of the dead(151), by Clara. The siblings endured decades of resentment, barbed words, a sheer loathing of one another; but in the end, Férula is the one who has died alone thus far, similar to the curse she directed at Esteban in Chapter 4.

More irony...Nana made many attempts made at scaring a young self-muted Clara into speaking, but Nana herself was the one who died of fright(168). I was devastated at the fact that none of the many children she had raised with so much love attended her funeral(163)-she too died alone(168). There seems to be a reoccurring theme here with the sadness and negativity associated with "dying alone." I'm not sure I understand this negative connotation associated with "dying alone-" regardless of who is around when one dies, doesn't everybody "die alone"...Literally?

Chapter 1-5

A few quick responses to the above post and then I'll post my own.

I thought it was funny when Pedro III, who had not physically matured as much as Blanca, failed to recognize her when she arrived at Tres Marías

I read this completely differently. I thought that when she got out, he saw how beautiful she was and how much she had changed and that's what made him run off.

Amidst a family dinner with all of the Trueba children, Esteban carving a roast at the long table, in what seemed like a very idyllic moment, in walks the spirit of recently passed Férula. Her spirit walks over to Clara, kisses her, only to walk out of the house in the same manner she came

This one I initially read as Ferula's love for Clara being the motivating factor. But then I realized that this is brilliantly written in a way that conveys her love for Clara and her rage at Esteban. It was an amazing scene and I loved it.

I could not understand why because she did not want to be found for so long?

This and your question about her bizarre dressing room. I thought that in the end she was consumed by grief and rage. I think the reason she didn't want to be found was the grief she felt. It's terrible that she wouldn't allow Clara to find her. For the strange stuff in her dressing room, this is where I got the grief from. What you have here is a sad, lonely woman who's playing dress up. (To my way of seeing things) I had such an impression of her living in this place, refusing Esteban's money (rage), trying to make herself look glamorous (grief), and living in this absolute squalor. For once I felt compassion for her desperately unhappy life.

There were several scenes that caught my eye in this one. One was all of the crazy costumes including fake stones, suspenders, and even the shining sword of a military cadet What a fascinating and eclectic mix she had! And of course the priest said She liked to wear used clothing that she bought in secondhand shops or picked from the garbage which I assume is where she got the eclectic mix.

He was furious because his sister, even now that she was dead, could still manage to make him feel guilty, just as she had when she was a boy This is such a brilliantly written bit. It's so very real! This is exactly how someone in a real life situation would feel. But also, to me at least, this was one time that he maybe should have felt guilty. She had done nothing truly wrong to throw her out of the house. Of course, he did send her the money. I don't know, can you just buy someone off to assuage your guilt? Whether he should have felt guilty or not is really a complex question. As I mentioned, I thought yes, but I also know that sometimes you hit a point with someone where you have to say enough and get them out of your life.

Once again he felt the sense of indignity that had frequently tormented him when he was with her Why indignity? That's such a strange word to use.

Go to hell b**ch! he thought, refusing to admit even in the farthest corner of his heart that his wife had ceased belonging to him ever since he threw Ferula out of his house. Did she ever belong to him in the first place?

"Why did she have to live like this when she had more than enough money?" Esteban asked. "Because she didn't have anything else," Clara answered gently. I think Clara understands Ferula's sorrow perfectly. She had nothing left so why accept his money? Why not live her life on her own terms? I wouldn't take his money. Sometimes you have a choice between taking something that makes you feel sick and hanging on to your dignity. I believe that Ferula was part of the latter group. But what a sad and sorry life it was at that point. I can't help but empathize, even if she did bring part of it on herself.

I also appreciated the moment of the last rites. It shows that Clara really had bonded with her and it wasn't all on Ferula's side. Clara had her head in the clouds so much that I never really knew for sure. I'm glad that Ferula had someone to take care of her at that particular time. She's not a character that I liked but she also wasn't all bad.

I was near tears when Nana died and none of the many children she had raised with so much love attended her funeral This was so devastating. She spent her life caring for others and then died alone with nobody to go to her funeral. I do understand that the country was in chaos and they may not have even known about her funeral in time, but this is so very sad. She was a wonderful woman.

There seems to be a reoccurring theme here with the sadness and negativity associated with "dying alone." I also noticed this theme reocurring. Esteban exemplifies the opposite; being alone because he's never loved despite his family. I wonder if she's playing the two off of each other? Ferula died alone but Clara cuts Esteban out of her life. Nana died alone but Blanca never loves Esteban. Maybe this is what she's trying to achieve.

More later. ;)

Chapters 5 and 6

I can't decide whether to do this in chronological order or by person. For some reason the personal interactions seemed more important to me. I'm going to organize it that way but I may switch.

Blanca
I loved watching Blanca's relationship with Pedro Tercero grow in this section. One aside - how in the world did she not get pregnant until she was 24??? Blanca has a lot of room for growth here and I'm hoping that her voice will start to be seen more. Clara and Blanca's relationship is interesting because they don't really seem to have much of one yet they're very deeply bonded. It's a really fascinating relationship.

Nana
When they're cleaning out the house along with Nana's stuff they set the birds free One by one they opened the bird cages, and the sky filled with parakeets, canaries, lovebirds, and finches, which flew around in circles, blinded by their sudden freedom What is the significance of the birds being blinded by their freedom? I'm sure she's saying something here but I don't know what.

Under the bed they found a bundle that contained the costumes Nana had used to frighten Clara in her years of silence I found this to be touching. The fact that she saved all of the costumes shows the depth of her love for Clara. It's very beautiful.

Jaime and Nicolas
It was very interesting to see this pair come back into the story. And they went from being rowdy and rough and tumble to now spoke Spanish with an Oxford accent, and the only emotion they were capable of expressing was surprise, raising their left eyebrows. This was a very interesting turn of events.

Jaime was particularly interesting to me personality wise. The way he tried to suppress his compassion. And especially his friendship with Pedro Tercero! This friendship linked the two boys until death, without Esteban Trueba ever finding out. Fascinating! And where is this going? I'm excited to find out.

Nicolas was less interesting to me, although his attempts to access his inner spiritual mediumistic nature were quite funny. And Clara's comment about his attempt to scientifically understand miracles. "If you can't understand how the telephone works," she would say, "how do you expect to understand miracles?" This was an enjoyable piece.

Pedro Segundo and Clara
This developing relationship was a really touching part of this section. He valued her as much as he detested Esteban This relationship ended up being a very surprising part to me.

Then when Esteban strikes Clara She pressed her swollen face against the shoulder of this man who had stood beside her through all the worst moments of her life, and she began to cry.

Pedro Segundo drove his mistress and her daughter to the station. After that night he was never again to see them, and he was silent and withdrawn. Why won't he ever see them again? And how does he know this?

Prior to this relationship He had seen her as a luminous summer apparition, removed from the brutal demands of the world, different from all other women he had known.

Not only was this relationship very touching, it also mirrored Blanca and Tercero's relationship in a more mature way. It was a very beautiful piece of the story and one that I will miss the next time I watch the movie.

Esteban
What surprises me the most about Esteban's character is that he can actually be more vile in the book than the movie. How is that even possible? And he's still so unbelievably clueless! Again showing that he has no empathy (in the sense of understanding people). He buys all of the new furniture and other items Any other woman would have been delighted with all this and would have had her work cut out for her for months to come, but not Clara, who was impervious to these things. All she managed to do was train a couple of cooks and the daughters of two of our tenants to help around the house. This is a gold mine of fun stuff. First, she's not "Any other woman", she's Clara. He never seems to get that. Second, she would have had her work cut out for her? Really? Like she hasn't been working her butt off already. And what does she do instead? She trains a cook and housemaids. What an incredibly foolish woman. Yes, that was absolutely sarcasm. He's so incredibly obtuse. And notice that this particular piece is told in the first person. So he's 80ish years old and he STILL doesn't get it.

Next up, She was a charitable and generous woman, eager to make those around her happy - everyone except me. Cry me a river. Honestly. She calmly explained that our marriage had deteriorated and that she had lost her natural inclination for the pleasures of the flesh. She had concluded that if we had nothing to say to each other we would also be unable to share a bed, and she seemed surprised that I could spend all day being furious at her and then wish to spend the night making love I really find his lack of empathy fascinating. He wants to possess this creature but he doesn't even begin to understand her. To hurt her feelings, I pretended I was going to the Red Lantern, but all she said was that it was a lot better than raping peasant girls Oh, did I laugh at this piece. Can you imagine saying this to your husband? It's interesting to see that Clara is so perceptive about things even though she's off with the spirits most of the time. So after all of these scenes, he says He was the only one to notice he was shrinking. He goes on to claim he's getting shorter as well but I can't help but wonder if this is more psychological. Is he "shrinking" because everything he loves (if you can call it that) is being taken away from him?

This quote fascinated me When he saw his daughter, Esteban Trueba was unable to restrain his evil character and he charged her with his horse, whip in the air, beating her mercilessly, lash upon lash, until the girl fell flat and rigid to the ground So Allende is actually saying he's evil. It's not just my perception. He's such a horrible man. Although I can't find it, I believe there was also a quote about how he was filled with even more rage after his injuries. I have a related quote though Clara came to fear him far more than she had when he was a healthy, strong man who disrupted her peaceful life with his scent of the eager male, his hurricane voice, his relentless warfare, and his pompous airs, imposing his will and shattering his whims against the delicate balance she tried to keep between the spirits of the Hereafter and the needy souls of the Here and Now. She came to despise him. I'm frankly surprised it took this situation for her to despise him. Clara has a really tough awakening in this part of the book and Esteban as usual just makes things worse. But then he continues to try to possess her. He just doesn't even begin to understand her even after living with her for 20? years give or take.

Everything about this man is ego and entitlement. The only one who knows how to work around here is me, without me this place would have been a wreck and stayed one, not even Jesus Christ said we have to share the fruits of our labor with the lazy He has a point as far as the house and land being in total disrepair when he came along, but why would the peasants work hard prior to this? They get no benefit from working the land. Why would someone not want to kick back and relax while the patron isn't there? One thing about Esteban though that actually goes into the plus category, although this may be his only plus, is that he's willing to perform physical labor. Aside from money, he's not really asking his peasants to do something that he's not willing to do.

Clara
Clara was particularly interesting in this section because she's finally forced to come out of her cloud. I remember speculating that if she didn't have someone to take care of her constantly, she might have been forced to become a part of the real world. This actually did happen and I was pleasantly surprised at how well she took to it. She may have hated every minute but it shows that she had an incredible amount of willpower once she put it to use.

Oooooh, the part where she never speaks to Esteban again? I loved the movie better here because she flatly states "I will never speak to you again." I liked this way well enough but this was a bit better in the movie. Much more dramatic.

I'm running out of room so I'll address Pedro III when I see a bit more of his personality. Sorry about the long post. This was a week that was rich with new information and character development.

Chapter 1-5
Sarah wrote: " Chapter 1-5

A few quick responses to the above post and then I'll post my own.

I thought it was funny when Pedro III, who had not physically matured as much as Blanca, failed to recognize her w..."

I read this completely differently. I thought that when she got out, he saw how beautiful she was and how much she had changed and that's what made him run off.

Oh I didn't mean to disregard her newly bloomed beauty, but I didn't think he recognized her at first glimpse because she was a full head taller than him, with developed breasts and a thinner waistline. I don't doubt her aesthetically pleasing qualities were also a factor in him running off-it played out as a touching, yet comical scene in my mind. :)

This one I initially read as Ferula's love for Clara being the motivating factor. But then I realized that this is brilliantly written in a way that conveys her love for Clara and her rage at Esteban. It was an amazing scene and I loved it.

Double edged sword, right? I loved this scene too! Oh Férula, a real boil on the backside of tortured humanity-Bless her heart!

I had such an impression of her living in this place, refusing Esteban's money (rage), trying to make herself look glamorous (grief), and living in this absolute squalor.

It's interesting, Esteban sent Férula money to help take care of their mother and nobody could figure out what Férula did with that money-I thought she gave it to the poor? But here, all the money he sent her to live on was found in an empty tea canister, untouched, not a penny missing-she didn't touch a single note of that money in over six years. You're right, she was too prideful and filled with rage towards Esteban, however, I also think she was sending a bigger message by keeping the money in the house. Even if the money was not found, it was evident in her living conditions alone she did not utilize any of the funds he was sending her. She was stubborn enough to forego financial assistance and resort to pillaging for clothes in garbage belonging to other people. You also mentioned many of the quotes referring to the ill-will between Esteban and Férula-she could never make him stop feeling indignant ...Even after her death!

Sometimes you have a choice between taking something that makes you feel sick and hanging on to your dignity.

Yes, you're right, but Férula does not exhibit this behavior. If she was "sickened" by the money, then why did she keep it and for so many years; especially, when she could have given it away to the poor? She wanted them to find her living in squalor and she wanted Esteban to find his money to make him feel like crap. What does this say about Férula, who would rather live in squalor than accept help from her brother...And what kind of message does it send Esteban? It shows how stubborn she really is, wanting to eat disgusting garbage rather than eat something given to her by Esteban. Férula was never going to allow herself an iota of happiness at the hands of Esteban...Talk about pride...Isn't that a sin of the Seven Deadly persuasion?

Did she ever belong to him in the first place?

No, but Clara did allow Esteban certain liberties before he did away with Férula. After she left, he no longer had the freedom to sleep in his own bed, or even visit Clara in their chambers for that matter. To Esteban, once one is in his circle, he sees this inclusion as one more person who "belongs to him-" is it not the central part of his credo to control, dominate and do as he pleases with anybody...Regardless of who they are? He's losing his wife, or he's lost his wife...She no longer belongs to him in "his eyes." Despite his lust for Rosa, Esteban really falls in love with Clara, and maybe that's the reason he didn't force her to do anything like he would have demanded with anybody else...Be it sex, reciprocating love, or just being happy and gay with him?

But also, to me at least, this was one time that he maybe should have felt guilty. She had done nothing truly wrong to throw her out of the house.

Although, Férula's relationship with Clara was innocent-ish, didn't she force Esteban out of the picture for quite some time by manipulating situations so Husband and wife would not be able to be in one another's company; thus, creating a wedge in their (Esteban and Clara) relationship? You have an overzealous guilt yielding older sister, who has worn on your nerves since childhood-who continues to make you feel the same way through adulthood even after her passing...I would think feeling any remorse for her death would be difficult. Let me add, Férula's draconian mental punishments, they are so deep-rooted in Esteban he cannot see otherwise...I don't know if this is a lack of mental maturity on his part to overcome decades of abuse, or that he remains childlike due to childhood anguish?

I also noticed this theme reocurring. Esteban exemplifies the opposite; being alone because he's never loved despite his family. I wonder if she's playing the two off of each other? Ferula died alone but Clara cuts Esteban out of her life. Nana died alone but Blanca never loves Esteban. Maybe this is what she's trying to achieve.

I want to revisit this as we get closer to the end because I want to see what happens to Esteban.

Yes, you're right, but Férula does not exhibit this behavior. If she was "sickened" by the money, then why did she keep it and for so many years; especially, when she could have given it away to the poor? She wanted them to find her living in squalor and she wanted Esteban to find his money to make him feel like crap

I hadn't thought of it this way and you're absolutely right. Thanks for the insight.

As for the Ferula/Esteban relationship and him throwing her out of the house... I guess I don't think she deserved to be thrown out at that moment. She's certainly done plenty along the way to make her bed. These two are so filled with rage and vengeance and perhaps guilt that they've become blind to everything else.

One thing I have to give Allende: She knows how to write and she writes some damn complex characters. I think you could read this a dozen times and it would just enrich you're knowledge more and more.

Chapter 6

Is anybody noticing a parallel between the dolls with black eyes in the earlier chapters and Esteban Garcia poking a needle through a chicken's eye and later attempting the action on the recently passed Pedro Garcia Sr.?

Also, just so I have it correct, the Garcia family tree...Pedro Segundo and Pancha Garcia were the children of Pedro Garcia, right? This would make Esteban Garcia the grandchild of Pedro Garcia and son of Pancha Garcia, correct? If this is the case, then why does Esteban Garcia refer to Pancha as his grandmother ...Was Pedro Garcia's wife also named Pancha?

Also, am I correct in understanding both Blanca and Pedro III are 18-19 years old by the end of chapter 5 entering chapter 6? The only reason I ask is because I was quite surprised to read Esteban Garcia was only 10 years old at the time of his grandfather's death. I don't know, I could have misread?

Sarah wrote: "Yes, you're right, but Férula does not exhibit this behavior. If she was "sickened" by the money, then why did she keep it and for so many years; especially, when she could have given it away to th..."

No, she didn't. But you take Esteban's temper and irrationality, and Férula's incessant manipulations, it was a recipe for disaster...Only a matter of time before he came crashing down on Férula.

One thing I have to give Allende: She knows how to write and she writes some damn complex characters. I think you could read this a dozen times and it would just enrich you're knowledge more and more.
No kidding...This one might have to go down as a "repeated reading endeavor," every so often.

I had not noticed the eyes parallel, which is kind of weird actually since I have a thing about the vulnerability of eyes. What were the dolls with black eyes?

In the family tree I actually have an answer for you. There were two Esteban Garcias. So we have Pancha with Pedro, Segundo with the first Esteban Garcia, and Tercero and the second Esteban Garcia in the third generation. It's pages 188-189 At his feet was his great-grandson Esteban Garcia who was by that time almost ten, driving a nail trhough the eyes of a chicken. He was the son of Esteban Garcia, the only bastard offspring of the patron named for him.

Tell me what you think about the eyes thing because I completely missed it.

Ami wrote: "No kidding...This one might have to go down as a "repeated reading endeavor," every so often..."

As soon as I get an un-highlighted copy. :)

Chapters 1-6

Sarah wrote: "I had not noticed the eyes parallel, which is kind of weird actually since I have a thing about the vulnerability of eyes. What were the dolls with black eyes?

Sarah, my doll reference was incorrect. I was actually talking about the little girl in Esteban's dream, the one he had after Rosa passed. There were a couple of porcelain doll images here and there, I confused the two. Here is the passage...

...She was naked and held a bundle in her arms,and she walked as people do in dreams, with the shimmering green halo floating out around her body. He saw her coming slowly toward him, and when he reached out to touch her, she hurled her package to the ground, shattering its contents at his feet. He knelt down and picked it up: it was a tiny girl without eyes, and she was calling him Papa(70-71).

Blanca has...olive skin and dark eyes of her Mediterranean genes...(143).

Pedro III had a pair of 'black eyes' that looked out onto the world with an old man's gaze(104).

When we first meet Esteban Garcia, at age 10, we find him driving a nail through the eyes of a chicken and then after noticing a change in Pedro Garcia's disposition (since he had died), Esteban was about to stick it (nail) in his grandfather's eye... before Blanca shoves him aside, never suspecting that this evil, dark-skinned creature was her nephew and that he would one day be the instrument of a tragedy that would befall her family(189-190). The beginnings of a sociopath...?

Chapter 6

I know I've alluded to chapter 6 references in previous posts, but there were so many details in this section I was either mesmerized by, or shaken to the core because of Allende's keen sense of detail.

In the beginning we find Clara, having distanced herself from Esteban and their marriage,more comfortable milking cows with Pedro Segundo than keeping Esteban company...(177), is vanishing right before Esteban's eyes. Clara's etherial being effortlessly moves about Esteban like a breath of air, while avoiding the tireless grasps of her husband. I pictured Esteban confined to a chair, unable to move anything except for his arms, attempting to grab a hold of Clara who moves just within his grasp, only to quickly move out of it...Can this book get any more torturous-it's terrible? Although, Esteban loved Clara very much, I could still sense a heavy petty nature within him when he said, The more distant Clara became, the more I wanted her love(177). I think this occurs because Esteban has a tendency to obsess and fester like a mad man, bringing to fruition his inner irrational child all too often. Their relationship is the epitome of dysfunctional and more so now than ever, since Clara has completely checked out of it. I know he truly does love her, in all genuineness, but it was not cemented until later in this chapter after both Clara and Blanca leave Tres Marías.

I still can't wrap my head around Count Jean de Satigny, a very entertaining character to say the least. He lives with the Trueba's for quite some time attempting to gain Blanca's hand in marriage and Esteban's money in the chinchilla business; however, neither comes to fruition. Intrigued by Blanca's nightly rendezvous, the Count follows her to the river keen on finding out who she is meeting...To his surprise, at glimpsing Blanca and Pedro together, what he was looking at did not resemble and erotic summer idyll, as he had supposed, but rather a marriage of body and soul(198). As an aside, Allende does not disappoint with her words describing this moon lit night, her words drip of sweet nectar. After witnessing the bond between Pedro and Blanca, the Count sets fate in motion for Blanca by retelling the account to Esteban, only to then just pick up and leave...I have a feeling we will run into him again, but will it be a happy, or sad meeting?

I wish Esteban were better able to control his temper. After he hit Clara, in his rage for Pedro III and Blanca, I just knew that this would be his cemented demise with Clara. Esteban would soon enter a downward spiral; still embroiled in his rage for Pedro III, his loneliness since both Blanca and Clara have left him, and the apathy of the peasants towards him. Something terrible was about to happen and so it did with news of Pedro III's whereabouts delivered by ten year old, Esteban Garcia.

Upon finding Pedro III and the events which played out immediately after, I'm not sure which was worse; Esteban's reaction to hacking off Pedro Tercero's "three" fingers with an ax because the feel of his warm blood on my face had quickly taken the edge off my hatred, or Esteban Garcia gathering Pedro III's fingers, holding them like a bouquet of bloody asparagus while he smiled impassively (207)? What's worse, Esteban didn't pay the child his reward for giving up Pedro III, instead slapping him on the face while telling him, theres' no reward for traitors!" Although it was a gruesome turn of events, transitioning to a very macabre scene with the entrance of Esteban Garcia, it was just as gut wrenching to see the tears fall from both Grandfather (inside the house on a couch) and grandson (outside the gates). Esteban, at 60, still cannot understand what his wrath is capable of doing and feeling guilt for his actions, while Esteban Garcia cries from anger, having been shunned by this man again! Oh Esteban, what a tangled web you have weaved...

Due to the rich complexity of this novel, there has been a change to the reading schedule. Please review before posting, and thank you for keeping pace with us and avoiding spoilers.