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After the voting is over and the winners are announced, the organizers issued a pdf with lots of interesting details. Here it is:

Some highlights:
- several of works we nominated made it in top-10, but not top-5.
- surprisingly high support for Archive of Our Own in Best Related Work, I guess there can be something...
- most of us expected Only Harmless Great Thing to win, but it finished pre-last

What do you see?

I am shocked that the Black Panther comic almost won. What the hell? It was terrible. Between Saga, On a Sunbeam, and Monstress, Black Panther almost wins? Did Hugo voters just vote for The Writer We Know?

A lot of this final ballot smacks of name recognition carrying the day. Best Fancast had name recognition, Kelly Robson's story coming last is like anti-name recognition, should've been higher among the novellas.

Also strange that the Zen Cho novelette won, I was really surprised because of the proprietary format required to read it (Barnes & Noble website, or Barnes & Noble only e-book device) from the Hugo reader packet. So I didn't even read it.


Perhaps what's most notable is just how divided Hugo voters were this year in their picks for best choice. In final ballot statistics, the highest first pick winner was Spiderverse -- not surprising at all -- and there were lots of really really low first pick vote counts: Monstress, Zen Cho, Lodestar & Campbell Award. It seems that voters could not agree on standout best of year books this year.

Kalin wrote: "I am shocked that the Black Panther comic almost won. ."

I admit I haven't read it, but its initial success I guess was linked to the movie (I still suspect that many voters vote for works they haven't read/watched). Its bumpy way is interesting: in nominees it got 43 votes against 124 for Monstress, but in the initial voting it got 338 vs 298 for Monstress

My novel noms all got in the top 20 except one.
My novella and novelette noms all got in.
My short story noms got in except two.

Surprised that Machineries of Empire scored first in the nom phase but fared bad in the voting.

I did not know we could nominate a whole season of a TV series for the long form category. I would have nominated The Expanse as well.

Zen Cho winning was the most upsetting result since there were other worthy winners from that list, like, at least three.

Tomi Adeyemi... I still dislike her after the Nora Roberts debacle. Oh well.

I love that the OOAC podcast got a boost of voters (so glad for both Annalee and Charlie Jane!) and surprised Coode Street got so little.

The Black Panther comic was good but I agree compared to On A Sunbeam it is far below. Monstress is a good winner, thank goodness.

Silvana said: Tomi Adeyemi... I still dislike her after the Nora Roberts debacle.

What Nora Roberts debacle??

Have they got a listing like this for the Retro-hugos?

Silvana wrote: "
I love that the OOAC podcast got a boost of voters (so glad for both Annalee and Charlie Jane!) and surprised Coode Street got so little. "

I think Coode Street has just been on the best fancast list since it was created and it has its fans among the Hugo voter base established; at this point, it's not likely to grow fans. It's a great podcast full of interesting bits of info, opinion, and interviews, but I suspect that being two (older) white guys in a period where Hugo voters seem hostile to the classic/old-timey SF community doesn't help them.

@Kalin: yes that is true. And they issue episodes very irregularly as well.

@Kate: Tomi accused Nora (a veteran writer) publicly of plagiarizing a book title, since Nora had a romance book titled Of Blood and Bone coming out just a few month near Children of Blood and Bone. First it was silly since obviously you can't copyright a title (there were lots of memes about anything blood and bone at that time), and Nora actually secured the title first, but it was quite also a scandal due to to her less than graceful ways in handling it after people pointing out that fact and Nora reaching out to her.

Kalin wrote: "I am shocked that the Black Panther comic almost won. What the hell? It was terrible. ..."

The first volume, written by Ta-Nehisi Coates, was pretty bad to me. I didn't even finish it. But this volume is by a different writer. I was hoping it would be good.

Unlike regular books, I do read a fair amount of current comics. So I can say there was lots of good stuff nominated. I'm pleased that Abbott was able to make it to 3rd place, even beating out some big hits.

Martha Wells declined her nominations for parts of the Murderbot series. I guess it is because she feels that she'd already won for a previous volume in the series and didn't need the extra publicity. I kind-of wish Saga, Monstress, and Paper Girls would have likewise stepped aside so lesser-known works could be spotlighted. (However, those are owned by groups of people, so it it requires more than one person to agree to do that.)

re: Martha Wells stepping aside -- it's also fairly common practice for writers who have multiple works nommed in the same category to decline all but one so they're not competing against each other and splitting the vote. Had she left 3 murderbot novellas in the race, she wouldn't have won.

The winner of John W. Campbell Award, Jeannette Ng named the man, who gave his name to the award a fascist in her speech

The problem with both Hugo and Campbell, whose views were far from progressive was mentioned earlier in the group. However, it seems for the first time the winner raised the issue.

*and I think that people use word 'fascist' too often to describe in negative light their opponents, often equaling it with racist, supremacist, jingoist, nazi, etc. which irks we as a person who studied political science. I'm opposed to totalitarian ideologies, including fascism but this word become a boogey man IMHO

Just watched the speech. Very passionate! Jemisin did a similar one two (?) years ago, but this one is more scathing

Here’s a robust defense of Ng’s speech and especially her use of the word fascist, as written by former Campbell Award-winner John Scalzi. It’s invigorating to witness a privileged voice recognize his privilege, own it, open himself up to new ways of thinking, and then use that privilege to stand as an ally and help shift the status quo.

Silvana wrote: "Just watched the speech. Very passionate! Jemisin did a similar one two (?) years ago, but this one is more scathing"

I'm also very glad that she mentioned Hong Kong, because I follow what happens there and there are multiple similarities with what was with mass protests in Ukraine 2013-2014, namely usage of mobs to beat protesters, creating a picture for Chinese TV with 'supporters' paid off and transported from mainland, police's excessive usage of force, etc.

Anthony wrote: "Here’s a robust defense of Ng’s speech and especially her use of the word fascist, as written by former Campbell Award-winner John Scalzi."

While I fully agree with what he says, including that Campbell was racist and sexist and that it is as he correctly states:

“Yeah, but, Scalzi, is Campbell a fascist or not?� I gave my answer in the piece: I haven’t thought about it that way before this weekend (because I didn’t have to! Hey, did you know I’m a comfortably off white dude?), so now I have to think about it.

I haven't thought about it that way as well.

My point is more a problem of borrowed labels, often used incorrectly (even by self-proclaimed fascists). Fascism growth in Italy in the 1920s and it is from the start a strong opponent of bolshevism (including extra-legal killing of supposed leftist activists. The USSR via Comintern makes fascism 'the final stage of capitalism' and starts labeling fascists anyone, who is against Stalin and his team, including Trotsky, many old communists killed during purges, Spain's communists and anarchists during the Spanish civil war. After Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, press called British and French 'true fascists' and warmongers. Even Nazi in the USSR are known as 'German-fascist occupiers'. This labeling entered European intellectual discourse and, I guess then shifted to the USA, so it is a label that for many means different things.

Another again minor disagreement with Scalzi is his: "Campbell,... was able to shape the genre into what he thought it should be, in a way that still influences how people write science fiction" I guess gives a little to much credit to Campbell - I guess Verne, Wells, Shelley were more genre defining as the writers. Also there is a long tradition of SF outside the USA, which wasn't as notably affected.

I also dislike the way the term "fascist" has been applied to so many different things that it has started to lose meaning. People on all sides call each other fascist. I wish she'd used a different word, but, she was close enough.

Scalzi's article was good. And most of the comments there were good, too. (Maybe he has deleted some bad ones.)

I was expecting the book Astounding to score higher in the awards. Maybe it didn't because some people think of it as only criticizing Campbell, when in fact it has plenty of praise along with the criticism. I recommend it.

I hadn't realized that the World Fantasy Award was changed to no longer look like HPL. Good! The new one looks nicer.

There is a post from Hugo Administrator, Nicholas Whyte with a bit of analysis of the votes:

Campbell Award is now Astounding.
Announcement here:


Maybe the Hugos will do a similar thing someday?

Silvana wrote: "Campbell Award is now Astounding."

Congrats to the fandom that made this possible!

As for Hugo, it is much bigger brand (I knew is as THE award for ages and hasn't been aware it is named after some guy up to just a few years ago). Somehow like Harward uni is the world famous even if both history of the universe itself and John Harvard are not blameless.

If Hugo renamed, what is the best new title?

Shelley? From Mary Shelley.

Silvana wrote: "Shelley? From Mary Shelley."

Having problems with persons as the reason to change the award's title makes me reluctant to change to another person's name. I think it should be something non-personal, like starlight or imagination

Fair enough. Or, they can just use World SF Society Award.