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Can we start discussing ideas for our 2020 challenge?

I have this idea that we have a magical beings and creatures challenge.
Each book could be a different being or creature. By having ones from various different countries/cultures we could also be doing a kind of "around the world" challenge ( which we did a few years ago). For example Selkies from Celtic folklore, Djinn from Middle Eastern, etc

Of course if you all have other ideas that is fine too!

Suggestions please!

I like this idea!

Something to think about: some creatures can be found in many different regions. Like the fox and dragon. Also, we want to choose creatures where there are many possible books to choose from. So, for example, it might be a bit hard to find multiple options for Nagas.

Some suggestions:
Tricksters from Native American folklore
Baba Yaga from Russian/Eastern EU (or would she not count as a magical creature?). Or maybe Vampires? It's been a while since we read vampire fiction.
The Green Man/Woman from Celtic folklore (although I wouldn't want Celtic folklore to predominate)
Fairies from European folklore
Kappa from Japanese folklore
Kraken from Scandinavian folklore
Fox from Japanese folklore
Dragon from Chinese folklore

We could also have a free slot--pick a monster of your choice. And/or a nonfiction book about monsters.

When we're finalizing the list we'll definitely need to think about how many books there are about the subject.

The Caribbean Erzulies (three of them, I think) or other voodoo spirits of the region.

Ghosts of Oceana

I'm on board with a "Magical Beings and Creatures from Around the World" theme for the 2020 challenge, so long as a) we don't get pigeonholed into purely Europe-centric beings/creatures and b) there's a large selection of books on that particular being/creature.

To solve both it may be wise to first start with continent/country/region and then specify being/creature. For example, instead of "Djinn from Middle Eastern" maybe the challenge item is "Beings and creatures of myth, folklore, legend from Middle Eastern countries. For example, Djinn, Efrit, Al Anqa’a."

This would open up possibilities to other beings/creatures from Middle Eastern countries, not just the djinn. Then, in case someone has already read all the djinn books they want to read, they can still join the challenge for Middle East by simply selecting a different being/creature.

Or, remove the geographical component altogether and specify the being/creature only. Because, like Margaret said, there is some geographical overlap for some beings/creatures. If it's decided to specify only the being/creature then I think there should be at least 2 reader's choice. So it'd be 10 beings/creatures nominated/selected and 2 open slots as reader's choice.

ETA: I think Baba Yaga fits as a being of the "magical beings and creatures" theme.

Margaret wrote: "I like this idea!

Something to think about: some creatures can be found in many different regions. Like the fox and dragon. Also, we want to choose creatures where there are many possible books to..."

Leah wrote: "I'm on board with a "Magical Beings and Creatures from Around the World" theme for the 2020 challenge, so long as a) we don't get pigeonholed into purely Europe-centric beings/creatures and b) ther..."

I agree with both of your points.
I don't want to only have European beings and creatures!
I think we just have to be consciously select a wide variety of Magical Beings and Creatures from different cultures.
I don't think its necessarily to have the continents or geographical component. We could, there is not reason why we shouldn't, except it might make it too similar to the previous around the world challenge we had.
And yes, it's important to think about there being enough books to choose from!

So, probably simplest is best, eh. Instead of "Fox from Japanese folklore" we could just have "Fox" as the challenge prompt.

What if we keep sharing the magical beings and creatures we'd like to nominate, then early December mods could do a group-wide poll (just b/c a poll may get our 2020 challenge more attention/ interaction from members than only this thread??) and the 10 with the most votes will be our 10 challenge items?? Then if everyone agrees/ likes/ wants to do the reader's choice option that'll take up the remaining 2 slots. Of course, I don't know the abilities of GR polls, if it allows multiple choice or only 1 "winner" if it's fairly limited in its capabilities.

I definitely want to second:

Water creatures
Djinn
Tricksters
Foxes
Vampires
Dragons
Ghosts
Voodoo spirits

Perhaps expand the green man to Green Man and Analogues? Natural spirits similar to the Celtic being (ie symbols of rebirth and renewal) appear in Ancient Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Tibet, Nepal, India, Mexico and Asia Minor.

Also, nominating Shapeshifters.

Leah wrote: "So, probably simplest is best, eh. Instead of "Fox from Japanese folklore" we could just have "Fox" as the challenge prompt.

What if we keep sharing the magical beings and creatures we'd like to n..."

I LOVE the poll idea! And we can add as many answers as we want to polls.

I also think it's a great idea to make it more general.

Amanda wrote: "Perhaps expand the green man to Green Man and Analogues? Natural spirits similar to the Celtic being (ie symbols of rebirth and renewal) appear in Ancient Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Tibet, Nepal, India,..."

Good ideas.

For creatures I nominate foxes, cats and changelings.

Here's what we have so far:
-Djinn (2)
-Tricksters (2)
-Baba Yaga (2)
-Vampires (2)
-Nature Spirits/Green Man (2)
-Fairies and Changelings (5)
-Dragon (2)
-Voodoo Spirits (2)
-Ghosts (2)
-Water Creatures (3) (I moved selkies, kraken, and kappa into this category)
-Shapeshifters (2)
-Cats (2)
-Family Canidae (dogs, foxes, coyotes, etc) (6)
-Birds (3)
-Gods/demi-gods (1)

The numbers indicate categories where multiple people show interest. It occurs to me that the poll option doesn't allow for multiple answers. So either we can do multiple polls, or I can see if I can find a free poll creator online that will.

Margaret wrote: " It occurs to me that the poll option doesn't allow for multiple answers. So either we can do multiple polls, or I can see if I can find a free poll creator online that will."

Pollmaker () is free and allows respondents to make multiple votes. I've not used it before and have no idea how reliable it is.

Amanda wrote: "Pollmaker (...) is free and allows respondents to make multiple votes. I've not used it before and have no idea how reliable it is."

Thanks!

I second changelings

I love all suggestions! Having a poll is a great idea too! I don't know if I understand how to make a poll in this case, but Margaret if you can that would be great!

I was also going to suggest shapeshifters as they are in many cultures! Of course I can always read more about the Fae and Djinn as well! I guess mermaids count as water creatures. As it's come up recently with the "controversy" regarding the new filming of the Little Mermaid, mermaid lore is in many cultures, including African, not just European.

Regarding Changlings, would they count as Fae?

Jalilah wrote: "I love all suggestions! Having a poll is a great idea too! I don't know if I understand how to make a poll in this case, but Margaret if you can that would be great!

I was also going to suggest s..."

I can handle the poll!

Yes, Mermaids would definitely be considered water creatures. I changed fairies to fairies/changelings.

+1 cats
+1 changelings
+1 shapeshifters

There are lots of stories of canine-based creatures in folklore and mythology. I would love for dogs to be one of the options.

+1 for dogs

Margaret, when do you think you'll be closing noms and creating/ posting the poll?

Do we want to group foxes in with family Canidae (dogs, etc.)?

Amanda wrote: "Do we want to group foxes in with family Canidae (dogs, etc.)?"

Well today I learned that the family Canidae includes foxes! Thank you Amanda 🤓 Does this also include wolves, jackals, dingoes, etc. as well as domestic dogs?

I am personally hoping that the categories of creatures are as broad as possible to allow a wide range of written works.

Yes, and coyotes.

I'm swamped with work right now, but I'll aim to have polls up between Sunday the 24th and Tuesday the 26th.

How about Gods and Demi Gods?
Crows?
Now if we have too many animals they can all go under the category of shapeshifters right?

I updated the list, and combined foxes and dogs into a family Canidae (thanks, Amanda!) and Jalilah, if it's okay with you, I put birds instead of crows and seconded it. I'm a bird fiend.

Margaret wrote: "I updated the list, and combined foxes and dogs into a family Canidae (thanks, Amanda!) and Jalilah, if it's okay with you, I put birds instead of crows and seconded it. I'm a bird fiend."

Perfect!

Margaret wrote: "I updated the list, and combined foxes and dogs into a family Canidae (thanks, Amanda!) and Jalilah, if it's okay with you, I put birds instead of crows and seconded it. I'm a bird fiend."

Hi Margaret, I endorse foxes and dogs being a family, and I also like the broadening of the birds, ie chooks, fowls, ravens etc under one umbrella.

I do think dogs and foxes are quite different folklorically though, with foxes being on the cunning and unknowable end and dogs being man's best friend. Although I suppose there is some crossover in Hound of the Baskerville type dogs.

Emily wrote: "I do think dogs and foxes are quite different folklorically though, with foxes being on the cunning and unknowable end and dogs being man's best friend. Although I suppose there is some crossover i..."

I confess I haven't read any dog folklore that I can recall, except Hound of the Baskervilles. If other members want to separate it, I will!

Even fox folklore can vary a lot from country to country.

I think part of the idea of combining them and other categories together is to give people lots of options. Take Water Creatures. Certainly, mermaids and kraken have few similarities. But they're in the same category nontheless!

Maybe that makes it too easy? I do enjoy challenging reading challenges. But I also want people to participate!

Oh, I am planning on posting a poll tomorrow night. So last call for nominations!

Margaret wrote: "I think part of the idea of combining them and other categories together is to give people lots of options."

Right.

Margaret wrote: "I do enjoy challenging reading challenges. But I also want people to participate!"

Me too! I'm hoping with the 2020 theme of "Magical Beings and Creatures" and then each challenge prompt offering lots of choices, that maybe we'll have more members join in next year.

I created a poll! Click here to vote:

Voting will end Monday, December 2nd.

Let me know if it doesn't work!

I voted and the poll worked great. Thank you Margaret!

Margaret wrote: "I created a poll! Click here to vote:

Voting will end Monday, December 2nd.

Let me know if it doesn't work!"

It worked great! Thanks Margaret!

Great!

Last call to vote on the poll if you haven't yet! The top 10 will be listed tomorrow morning.

Poll is complete! Here's what our 2020 Challenge looks like. Remember, if a creature/magical being you wanted didn't get chosen, we have 2 reader's choice slots.

Read a book containing these creatures/magical beings.
1. Water Creatures (mermaids, selkies, kappa, etc)
2. Fairies/Changelings
3. Witches/Crones
4. Nature Spirits/Green Man
5. Dragon
6. Djinn
7. Tricksters
8. Shapeshifters
9. Ghosts
10. Cats
11. Reader's Choice
12. Reader's Choice

Now let's talk book recommendations! I'm definitely going to need some for cats, lol.

Some early thoughts:

2. Fairies/Changelings: Little, Big, Cuckoo Song, The Good People

3. Witches: Lolly Willowes

4. Nature spirits/Green ManLanny, The Wake, The Green Man

5. The Buried Giant

Emily wrote: "Some early thoughts:

2. Fairies/Changelings: Little, Big, Cuckoo Song, The Good People

3. Witches: Lolly Willowes

4. Nature spirits/Gre..."

Emily, I read The Buried Giant a year ago. I gave it 5 stars in my review. I thought it was great!

For #4 Nature spirits/Green Man, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight would also work.

On cats, Terri Windling is her usual informed self:



Mostly she mentions children's and traditional tales, but there's also Alice in Wonderland and the Puss retelling in The Bloody Chamber. I suppose The Master and Margarita fits...

Tamara wrote: "Emily, I read The Buried Giant a year ago. I gave it 5 stars in my review. I thought it was great!

Oh, that's good to know! I was so intrigued when it came out but reviews were mixed. I've been thinking I should read it anyway.

Emily wrote: "Tamara wrote: "Emily, I read The Buried Giant a year ago. I gave it 5 stars in my review. I thought it was great!

Oh, that's good to know! I was so intrigued when it came out but reviews were mixe..."

Emily, it takes place after the death of King Arthur. It's got mythical creatures, knights in shining armor, and it's all shrouded in a mysterious mist. I read it as an allegory raising some interesting questions about memory. I thought it was a delightful story.

My review in case you want to check it out: /review/show...

Margaret wrote: "Poll is complete! Here's what our 2020 Challenge looks like. Remember, if a creature/magical being you wanted didn't get chosen, we have 2 reader's choice slots..."

This is gonna be so. much. fun!!

Water Creatures (mermaids, selkies, kappa, etc)
Something Rich and Strange
Mermaid and Other Water Spirit Tales From Around the World by Heidi Anne Heiner
Riddle-Master by Patricia A. McKillip
The Changeling Sea by Patricia A. McKillip
Changeling's Island by Dave Freer
The Evil Wizard Smallbone by Delia Sherman

Fairies/Changelings
Encyclopedia of Fairies: Hobgoblins, Brownies, Bogies, & Other Supernatural Creatures by Katharine M. Briggs
The Treachery of Beautiful Things by Ruth Frances Long
Winter Rose by Patricia A. McKillip
Midnight Never Come by Marie Brennan
A Midsummer Tempest by Poul Anderson
Prospero Lost by L. Jagi Lamplighter

Witches/Crones
Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones
Castle Hangnail by Ursula Vernon
The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle
Harriet the Invincible by Ursula Vernon
Operation Chaos by Poul Anderson
The Forgotten Beasts of Eld by Patricia A. McKillip
One for the Morning Glory by John Barnes

Dragon
A Book Dragon by Donn Kushner
The Hobbit, or There and Back Again by J.R.R. Tolkien
Farmer Giles of Ham by J.R.R. Tolkien
A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin
The High House by James Stoddard