Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Rafa wrote: "Hi friends, I see let say duplicated Vasily Grossman with Vasili Grossman, can you please merge this ?"

If both spellings appear on books, they both have a right to exist.

lethe wrote: "Rafa wrote: "Hi friends, I see let say duplicated Vasily Grossman with Vasili Grossman, can you please merge this ?"

If both spellings appear on books, they both have a right to exist."

I guess that Vasily is the translation to English from Russian cyrilic name, instead in Spanish it has been translated as Vasili... but is the same person. Up to you...

Rafa wrote: "I guess that Vasily is the translation to English from Russian cyrilic name, instead in Spanish it has been translated as Vasili... but is the same person. Up to you..."

This is what the librarian manual has to say on the subject:
"Authors with books published in multiple languages should have their names dealt with similarly to those with pen names. All editions should have the primary author name as the standard or most common Roman (that is, English-language) version of the author's name. Editions published under another spelling of the name or the name in another language should have that name listed as the secondary author."

Need advice here. I started creating English profile for this author but then I thought there might be a reason one doesn't exist. The name is quite close to what the original version is and the search does work, so is English profile actually needed for him?
(He is translated, but decided to ask before edit every single book)

If the only difference is the accented letters, then a second profile is not necessary.

104-105 I also see the spelling E?a de Queiroz, with a z instead of an s and no accent on the o: /search?utf8...

rivka wrote: "If the only difference is the accented letters, then a second profile is not necessary."

Thought it might be so. Thanks.

lethe wrote: "104-105 I also see the spelling E?a de Queiroz, with a z instead of an s and no accent on the o: /search?utf8..."

Oddly the books say Portuguese.

I get the impression Queiroz is an older variant of his name. The English Wikipedia gives both names, but unfortunately the Portuguese one doesn't. It does give this link in the references: "Biblioteca Nacional de Portugal. E?a de Queiroz.", but when I click it, the spelling is Queir¨®s.

In the Portuguese library catalogue I get:
E?a de Queir¨®s: 1829 hits
E?a de Queiroz: 494 hits

From Wikipedia: "During his lifetime, the spelling was "E?a de Queiroz" and this is the form that appears on many editions of his works; the modern standard Portuguese spelling is "E?a de Queir¨®s"."

lethe wrote: "I get the impression Queiroz is an older variant of his name. The English Wikipedia gives both names, but unfortunately the Portuguese one doesn't. It does give this link in the references: "Biblio..."

Interesting... I own three of his books in a translation (in Dutch) and here his name is spelled E?a de Queiroz, in other words, the version used during his lifetime. Never knew there was another spelling. Seems to me Wikipedia is right in saying that "E?a de Queiroz" is the form that appears on many editions of his works.

Booklovinglady wrote: "Interesting... I own three of his books in a translation (in Dutch) and here his name is spelled E?a de Queiroz, in other words, the version used during his lifetime. Never knew there was another spelling. Seems to me Wikipedia is right in saying that "E?a de Queiroz" is the form that appears on many editions of his works. "

Yes, Queiroz was more familiar to me too. Now I'm thinking that according to GR policy, because Queiroz was the earlier name/spelling used, that one should be primary on all his works...??

/book/show/1...
´óÏóµÄÑÛÀá [Da Xiang De Yan Lei]
by Sara Gruen (Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ Author), ɯÀ­.¸ñô”¶÷, Öx¼ÑÕæ×g Öx¼ÑÕæ (Translator)

Please correct£º
´óÏóµÄÑÛÀá
by Sara Gruen (Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ Author), ɯÀ­£®¸ñô”¶÷, Öx¼ÑÕæ(Translator)
-----------------------------------------------
/book/show/2...
by James F. Twyman, ղķ˹£®´ÞÂü, Öx¼ÑÕæ

Please correct£ºby James F. Twyman, ղķ˹£®´ÞÂü, Öx¼ÑÕæ (Translator)
Thank you!

lethe wrote: "Yes, Queiroz was more familiar to me too. Now I'm thinking that according to GR policy, because Queiroz was the earlier name/spelling used, that one should be primary on all his works...?? ..."

Isn't it GR policy to use the English spelling of a foreign author's name if/when his work is translated into English (or other languages)?

lethe wrote: "Yes, Queiroz was more familiar to me too. Now I'm thinking that according to GR policy, because Queiroz was the earlier name/spelling used, that one should be primary on all his works...?? "

I thought we should use the most common Roman name, which to me seems to be E?a de Queir¨®s. but some rules are still a bit obscure in my mind.

Ellie [The Empress] wrote: "I thought we should use the most common Roman name, which to me seems to be E?a de Queir¨®s. but some rules are still a bit obscure in my mind...."

I seem to remember English spelling was the policy, but it's years since I last had a look at the GR rules concerning the spelling of names (so I might very well be wrong).

The relevant portion of the manual says:

Authors with books published in multiple languages should have their names dealt with similarly to those with pen names. All editions should have the primary author name as the standard or most common Roman (that is, English-language) version of the author's name. Editions published under another spelling of the name or the name in another language should have that name listed as the secondary author.

So, technically, neither of the spellings - E?a de Queir¨®s or E?a de Queiroz - is correct because the English language doesn't have accents. I don't think that satisfies the question about this author, however.

On this English-language cover the author name is E?a de Queir¨®s:

I do occasionally see English spellings of names that include accents, George Konr¨¢d for instance: /book/show/1...

So do we keep E?a de Queir¨®s as primary?

lethe wrote: "I do occasionally see English spellings of names that include accents, "

They may be using the Roman alphabet, but they are not English spellings.

Ellie [The Empress] wrote: "So do we keep E?a de Queir¨®s as primary?"

Yes, that's fine.

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "lethe wrote: "I do occasionally see English spellings of names that include accents, "

They may be using the Roman alphabet, but they are not English spellings."

No, but if that's what used on the English editions, that is the primary author name on GR (thank goodness! Eca de Queiros looks abhorrent to me, and is also pronounced completely differently).

lethe wrote: "Eca de Queiros looks abhorrent to me, and is also pronounced completely differently"

Agreed. Although how I pronounce in my head and what is correct is probably different. ;-)

Hee! :D

Hello,

I would like some clarification about transliterated names. I have found a lot of information on these forums/manual but some is contradictory and some is unclear.

* For a Russian author with *at least* 13 different transliterations of his name in various languages, will this author have at least 13 different profiles on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ? This is what it seems like I am reading... For 2 or 3 this might seem fine but over 10?? Is there a way to let users know that a profile of an author they are reading is the same as another author?

* If a book has not been translated into English but has been translated from Russian to 4+ other languages, do we still add the English name first to facilitate integration under one profile? Or should the Russian name be added, or both?

* What if the English name is already added to a foreign translation of a foreign book..? Should we as librarians edit to the correct original name listed when the book was published and the original author name in his/her native language and forego the English if this book was never translated into English to begin with?

Thank you so much for your help.

Ioana wrote: "* If a book has not been translated into English but has been translated from Russian to 4+ other languages, do we still add the English name first to facilitate integration under one profile? Or should the Russian name be added, or both?

* What if the English name is already added to a foreign translation of a foreign book..? Should we as librarians edit to the correct original name listed when the book was published and the original author name in his/her native language and forego the English if this book was never translated into English to begin with?"

I have recently learned that if an *author* has not been translated into English, only in other languages, the original name should be the primary name. That means that none of his works should have been translated into English. If even one of his books has been translated into English, all his works should get the English name as primary author.

lethe wrote: "Ioana wrote: "* If a book has not been translated into English but has been translated from Russian to 4+ other languages, do we still add the English name first to facilitate integration under one..."

Thanks, Lethe! Your clarification was very helpful.
This author I was thinking about has tons of books in Russian that were mainly translated into languages of other Eastern European countries but he does have a handful that have also been translated into English.

Ioana wrote: "Is there a way to let users know that a profile of an author they are reading is the same as another author?"

I am sometimes in the habit of linking to the master (primary) author record in the description field of subordinate records, especially if those have no existing descriptive detail. I believe Sergei Lukyanenko serves as an English-language master record example, with Sergej Lukianenko as a German-language subordinate record.

(And I note that the §³§Ö§â§Ô§Ö§Û §­§å§Ü§î§ñ§ß§Ö§ß§Ü§à Cyrillic record disappeared again only to be recreated at §³§Ö§â§Ô§Ö§Û §­§å§Ü§î§ñ§ß§Ö§ß§Ü§à. I've fixed the master description again; some of the book records on the subordinate profiles still need cleaning to conform with policy. ETA: I think I got them all, but it would be handy for someone with better Cyrillic skills to have a look.)

Please correct the transliteration of the author's name for this book: /book/show/2...

Correct spelling: Tanbara Terukazu

Thank you!

Re 127:

Dambala Tell-kaz also gets about 2000 results on google; Tanbara Terukazu gets 6, none of which are for the complete name.

All I can think is the author has chosen to go with that transliteration.

lethe wrote: "I have recently learned that if an *author* has not been translated into English, only in other languages, the original name should be the primary name. That means that none of his works should have been translated into English. If even one of his books has been translated into English, all his works should get the English name as primary author. "

And what if a translation will come later? Wouldn't it be helpful if there were an English transliteration of the author's name already?

If a translation is in process or know to be forthcoming, that would be fine. If the author has no plans to be translated, that's a lot of work for no particular reason.

rivka wrote: "that's a lot of work for no particular reason."

As for me, it makes a lot more work to find out if the author (especially the old Soviet ones) was ever translated into English or not than just to transliterate his name into the Latin alphabet (f. e. using the Passport (2013), ICAO system). But ok, I will do my best to google all this information :)

In theory, you don't need to know that if you have a book or can look one up. The name on the cover will be in at least secondary place, and whatever name is in primary place, if not that one, will be the one that has all the books on it, no matter what name or language they were published under. So you should be able to find all the books that are listed on GR with a couple of clicks from any book they wrote.

However many people keep merging away all the variants and don't actually read the librarian manual.

Yes, but it's GR policy to only add the "English" version of the name as primary author if the author has ever been translated into English. Finding that out can be time-consuming, more time-consuming than just adding the "English" version as primary author without having to check first.

Oh, I wasn't thinking of time taken when adding books, rather for readers looking them up.

I usually just find an existing book, preferably their best known one, and figure out what's the primary profile which ought to be--again theoretically--either the English/Latin name or original language and use that.

Or what more likely happens at the moment, find out they don't really have one and all their books are either strewn across a dozen profiles despite there being an English one, some of them misspelled, or they have all been merged into one, and either way then I sob a little bit and set about trying to fix it as best I can.

Krazykiwi wrote: "either way then I sob a little bit and set about trying to fix it as best I can."

Same here..

For me it would be logical:

1. either always add the original name as primary author and then the name on the book cover in secondary place (so the English version would be added only to the English editions); -->(for me the most logical way)

2. or, if we say GR is an English site - let's try to keep everything in English, - always add the "English" version of the name as primary author, the original name as secondary and ignore the name on the book cover (the readers still have the book title and ISBN, so they will find this book anyway). -->(that's how I tried to keep everything until now)

I think it's annoying and confusing to have 3 different authors added to every book when they all are the name of the same person actually, just written in different ways... And if there really are three authors + translator, we end up having at least 10 (if not 12) names added to one book... But ok, if there isn't any possibility to change something, in the future I will keep it this way:

(f. e.) German edition of a book originally written in Russian
-(1)English version, (2)Russian original, (3)German version of the name if at least one book of this author ever was translated into English;
-(1)Russian original, (2)German version if the author was translated only into German (and all other languages except English) until now.

The original edition:
-(1)English version, (2)Russian original if the author was translated into English;
-(1)Russian original if not translated yet or translated into all other languages except English.

(phew!) Am I right? Maybe a table or a list in the Librarian Manual would be helpful :D

for your 1) We can't. All editions of a particular book must have the same primary author, for technical reasons that we can't do much about. That's why the convoluted rules in the first place, or it'd be much simpler.

Re: German edition of a book originally written in Russian -(1)English version, (2)Russian original, (3)German version of the name if at least one book of this author ever was translated into English;

Only (1) and (3) are needed, unless (2) is also on the cover for some reason.

Otherwise, yes, that looks pretty right to me (although Rivka has final word of course)

Krazykiwi wrote: "for your 1) We can't. All editions of a particular book must have the same primary author, for technical reasons that we can't do much about. That's why the convoluted rules in the first place, or ..."

They would have the same primary author - his original name!

Re: Only (1) and (3) are needed, unless (2) is also on the cover for some reason.

So I should add a Sergei Lukyanenko and a Sergej Lukianenko (the difference are TWO letters!) instead of his ORIGINAL name? Sheesh...

It's not that bad when you understand the logic of it.

One profile (either the English one, if they've ever been translated, or the original language one if they haven't) will be easily found from any book they wrote and will contain *all* the books they wrote that are listed on GR. That's why we add that one. We add it first to all the editions of all the books, because since we're adding it anyway to get all the books on the same profile, that also solves the problem of combining editions.

The other is the one on the cover of the actual book, which is the most logical one people would use to look up an author by name, should they have an actual book in their hand. If you have a book with Sergej Lukianenko on the cover, you're probably not going to be typing §³§Ö§â§Ô§Ö§Û §­§å§Ü§î§ñ§ß§Ö§ß§Ü§à into the search engine, and vice versa.

Yes, and if you have a Lithuanian book edition with Sergejus Lukjanenko on the cover, you wouldn't type Sergei Lukyanenko into the search engine either. So that's why my 1. suggestion seems to be the most logical for me: you type the name you see on the cover and it gets you to the book where you also see what the original name of the author is :) This can be pretty useful if you f. e. want to learn more about this person. AND you don't have to bother if this author was ever translated into English - there are too many people adding books and not bothering about that at all :D

Anyway, thank you very much for your answers and your patience! I will try to fix all the mistakes I made until now :)

Krazykiwi wrote: "Otherwise, yes, that looks pretty right to me"

I agree, it does.

Ieva wrote: "Yes, and if you have a Lithuanian book edition with Sergejus Lukjanenko on the cover, you wouldn't type Sergei Lukyanenko into the search engine either. So that's why my 1. suggestion seems to be t..."

No, but you'd type Sergejus Lukjanenko, and you'd find your Lithuanian edition that has that as the secondary author name. Hopefully, as long as someone already entered it into GR :)

Where do you check, if a book was translated into English or wasn't? Is there any internet site where I could find all English editions or something like that? That would be a big help :)

You could check in Worldcat for editions in other languages:

lethe wrote: "You could check in Worldcat for editions in other languages: "

Thank you very much!! So, if there is a Russian author Vasily Golovachev, and I couldn't find any book of him that was translated into English, that means he shouldn't have the English version of his name entered? Should I delete it and leave only the Russian one for all his books?

(I'm sorry for my English, hope you can understand the question though)

Ieva wrote: "Should I delete it and leave only the Russian one for all his books?"

If it already has been entered, I would not usually undo that work.

rivka wrote: "If it already has been entered, I would not usually undo that work."

Glad to hear that! :)

And I'm sorry, I know this is not really the right place to ask, but both the English and the Russian profiles have (different) followers. What would (have) happen(ed) if they were merged? I can't find anything in the manual about merging author profiles.

lethe wrote: "...both the English and the Russian profiles have (different) followers. What would (have) happen(ed) if they were merged? I can't find anything in the manual about merging author profiles."

Pending a more authoritative answer from Rivka, I would say that if both profiles are correct, it would be undesirable (or perhaps even a violation of policy) to merge them, but if they were merged for some reason then all followers would be migrated to the target of the profile merger. I can't think of any reason why we would want to merge a Russian profile into an English profile though, unless the author is not Russian and has never had a book translated into Russian.

Keith wrote: "if they were merged for some reason then all followers would be migrated to the target of the profile merger."

Correct.

Keith wrote: "I can't think of any reason why we would want to merge a Russian profile into an English profile though, unless the author is not Russian and has never had a book translated into Russian.."

We wouldn't, but it sadly happens all the time. And occasionally the other way around (and not only with Russian, of course).