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Please discuss our winner here

I don't particularly like Hemingway; I'll see if I'll be captured by this one!

I've read Hemingway books that I've enjoyed and that I've not enjoyed.....which puts me a bit on the fence on his writing but also intrigued.

I'll dig out my copy of this book and will join in.
We can do this, Laura. It might be one of his good books. :D

Petra wrote: "I've read Hemingway books that I've enjoyed and that I've not enjoyed.....which puts me a bit on the fence on his writing but also intrigued.

I'll dig out my copy of this book and will join in.
..."

Good idea!!! And the company is of the best here!!!

It’s years since I read any Hemingway and I’ve never read this one. I think I’ll join you.😀

Tweedledum wrote: "It’s years since I read any Hemingway and I’ve never read this one. I think I’ll join you.😀"

Great!

Tweedledum, I'm glad that you'll be joining us, too.

I will be a few days late in starting. I have another group read to finish first. But I will be joining in soon.

Has anyone else started this?

I'm up to chapter 4 now and finding the reading very easy. So far, I'm enjoying the writing.
Not much has happened yet, except the 2 main characters are introduced and their stories have begun for the reader.

I read this early this year. I'll wait until others have read it before I comment.

I am so happy this one, since I have a used copy a friend sent me that I have been meaning to read. I haven't read this before.

Petra wrote: "Has anyone else started this?

I'm up to chapter 4 now and finding the reading very easy. So far, I'm enjoying the writing.
Not much has happened yet, except the 2 main characters are introduced a..."

Finished yesterday. Didn't like it at all!!!!
But I'll wait for the others to catch uo before explaining what I've felt

There's a lot of eating and drinking going on. I'm about 40% through.

I'm enjoying the easy, conversationalist style of it but I'm being reminded of the easy-going, almost directionless way of living that expatriates seem to have lived in Europe in this time.

Laura, sorry that you didn't like it. I'll try to finish soon so that we can discuss it. :D

Petra wrote: "Laura, sorry that you didn't like it. I'll try to finish soon so that we can discuss it. :D"

Good! Waiting for you!

LauraT wrote: "Didn't like it at all!!!!.."

I'm with you on that, Laura :)

The thing about books written by Expats and about Expats is that the lifestyle is so .......pampered (?). They eat, they drink, they sleep around. If they work, they "write" or "paint". It seems so irresponsible, in its way, although if they are paying their own way, it's a choice issue.
There doesn't seem to be any accountability towards the feelings of others or punctuality, etc. They just do what they want in the moment.

In this book, Jake does seem to consider others. He's not a typical Expat in this sense.

This story keeps skirting around WWI. I'm curious to know (view spoiler)[what injury Jake received that would keep him and Brett apart, they obviously care for each other but are staying "hands off". (hide spoiler)] I hope to find out by the end of the book.

I'm not quite done yet (70%) but getting there. :D

The Sun Also Rises is considered to be a prime example of Hemingway’s “iceberg�� writing, a superficially simple story riding atop a massive and weighty philosophy and emotional juggernaut. Critics and readers have plumbed the depths of this story pointing out numerous implications for morality in the midst of existential nihilism, international politics, sexual identity, masculinity, racial identity and racism, and many more profound issues and topics. I’m trying to decide if I like this method/style/approach. On the one hand, it engages the reader; inasmuch as, s/he can hardly avoid asking, “What is he REALLY saying?�� which I kind of like. But, on the other hand it allows the author to carry on some pretty questionable suggestions without taking responsibility. Unfortunately, I feel that the current political environment is spoiling the technique a bit for me, because I am rather tired of politicians engaging in nasty innuendo and denying responsibility for the consequences of their deliberately hurtful statements.

Steve wrote: "The Sun Also Rises is considered to be a prime example of Hemingway’s “iceberg�� writing, a superficially simple story riding atop a massive and weighty philosophy and emotional juggernaut. Critics ..."

Lol Steve: see what I've written in my review: " As usual not my piece fo cake. I know he was a really good writer; still I can't see the famous 7/8 underneath!!!!"

Thanks Laura T! None of the characters are likable, nothing really happens, a bunch of irresponsible men and one woman go on a drunken holiday to Spain to watch the bullfights- not much to like or care about in the literal story. But, I’m not sure I like that much of the “underneath�� either. What is he saying about masculinity?- nothing very worthwhile, in my opinion, but since it’s all understated or coded people draw different conclusions. Is it really about decadent Europe in the aftermath of the Great War and it’s relationship to naive USA?- seems too big a stretch for me! Suppose it’s meant to be a contrast between love without sex (Jake for Brett) and sex without love (Brett and everyone). It just doesn’t work for me that way either- too ambiguous and since I don’t like any of the characters it hasn’t got the emotional pull. I’m trying to look at the book sympathetically, but I still end up not really liking it much. I’d love to hear from someone who loves the book, and maybe they can shed a warmer light on it.

Steve wrote: "I’d love to hear from someone who loves the book, and maybe they can shed a warmer light on it..."

Sorry, Steve. I didn't like the book, so I'm not going to be any help. This is from my review:

If the point of the novel is to depict a generation aimlessly adrift, drinking themselves to death, failing to connect with one another in a meaningful way, substituting sex for love, suffering from ennui, spouting ineptitudes, etc. etc. then it has succeeded. The trouble is that in capturing the qualities of this Lost Generation, Hemingway may have lost some of his readers by frustrating them with the monotony, the repetition, and the lackluster characters.

Hemingway lost me on this one.

I read this book 2 years ago assuming that it is philosophy. I was disappointed of course. The book is recommended by friends so I thought I missed something which others have found and enjoyed the book.
Another famous and highly recommended book which disappointed me is The Great Gastby, now I think that they both have unrequited love as a theme.

Nidhi wrote: "I read this book 2 years ago assuming that it is philosophy. I was disappointed of course. The book is recommended by friends so I thought I missed something which others have found and enjoyed the..."

That's the reason why, when recomending books to friends - thing that I confess I do often, I always add "in my humble opinion". WHat I like is not always what other people appreciate. I don't say that this is an ugly book; simply it has not gained my attention. It has not talked to me as it has to others...

I always love book recommendations from friends. Sometimes I love the book and sometimes I don’t, but it almost always broadens my horizons, and it gives me a point of connection with a friend.

Consider me confused. What exactly is this story telling us?!

I did like the writing but kept waiting for something of importance to actually happen.

I liked Jake. He seemed the most grounded and responsible of all of these people and I wondered what he saw in them as friends. What did they bring to the friendship with Jake? Nothing, as far as I could see. They took. It seemed very one-sided to me, with Jake doing the giving, while the others all took.

I get some of what Hemingway is saying.
WWI must have changed things hugely. The world had never seen a war like WWI. It was devastating. So much destruction and death....and for what? I image that it took the younger people some years to get over that experience. Perhaps that feeling of uncertainty and confusion is what is meant by "the lost generation". They were lost in the sense of having confidence or direction in their lives. After the war, nothing was certain and maybe there was no clear direction.

Jake was somehow damaged in the war, which made him impotent, which meant that the love he and Brett had for each other could not be. So, something that may have grounded them both and given them that lost confidence and direction could not be.

But......as a story, this came across rather flat. Nice dialogue, interesting descriptions of countryside but nothing much more than a group of "friends" eating and drinking in Paris and Spain.

I can't say this book will stand out for me. I liked it but just can't see the story as memorable. I've read better books by Hemingway.

Seeing the discussion here really makes me want to try this book now but I think it will be closer to December before I get a chance.

I remember disliking Hemingway back in school but he was my grandfather's favorite author so I guess I should try him again. But I am going to start with rereading A Farewell to Arms which I recall liking better than The Sun Also Rises.

Leslie, I disliked Hemingway in high school, too. With a passion. I avoided all his books until I was in my 50s, when I thought that maybe I should give him another chance to see if my more mature Self liked him more than my teen Self did.
I do like his writing now. He's not up on the top 10 authors of choice but I have enjoyed a few of his books.
I haven't read A Farewell to Arms yet and look forward to your thoughts on it.

Thanks for the encouraging words Petra.

Leslie wrote: "I remember disliking Hemingway back in school but he was my grandfather's favorite author so I guess I should try him again. But I am going to start with rereading A Farewell to Arms w..."

He was one of my father's favourite; still I can't see the poetry in him! And I also had to study him for my University exam of Anglo American Literature!
My husband says that A Farewell to Arms is much better than The Sun Also Rises; I'll read it sooner or later...

I enjoyed Islands in the Stream. It was the first Hemingway book that I enjoyed reading.
Another one I enjoyed (but it was very bizarre) was The Garden of Eden.

I quite liked The Old Man and the Sea which I read 7 or 8 years ago.

Petra wrote: "I enjoyed Islands in the Stream. It was the first Hemingway book that I enjoyed reading.
Another one I enjoyed (but it was very bizarre) was The Garden of Eden."

Not read neither of them; the first one I even didn't know at all!!!

Leslie wrote: "I quite liked The Old Man and the Sea which I read 7 or 8 years ago."

Not really liked; but I was almost a kid...

The Old Man and The Sea is the one we had to read in high school. It totally turned me off of Hemingway (or it could have been the teacher; she made a few books/authors unpalatable). I did listen to it a few years ago and it wasn't as bad as I recalled but it still isn't a favorite. Not sure if that's a hangover from high school, though.

Petra wrote: "The Old Man and The Sea is the one we had to read in high school. It totally turned me off of Hemingway (or it could have been the teacher; she made a few books/authors unpalatable). I did listen t..."

Same for me: being written in a realativly simple English, it is usually suggested as starting book not in translation... probably too early

I think that my positive reaction was influenced by the fact that I had seen & loved the film version of The Old Man and the Sea with Spencer Tracy before I read the book, lol!

Leslie wrote: "I think that my positive reaction was influenced by the fact that I had seen & loved the film version of The Old Man and the Sea with Spencer Tracy before I read the book, lol!"

That I loved a lot!!! But probably because I loved Spencer Tracy!!!

Spencer Tracy is wonderful - he did such a variety of roles :-)

He was really GREAT! And you even didn't mind he wasn't tall!!!!

lol!

In Italian we say "Altezza, mezza bellezza" - Hight half beauty!!!

Such an interesting discussion which I have just caught up with now. I am about halfway through The sun also rises and was struggling to see the point of it all so the comments above have been really helpful. I have the audiobook and the narrator reads in a laconic and bored style which I guess is the point.

On the journey to Spain , once I got over being irritated by the number of times somewhere was described as “nice�� or “big�� or similar I suddenly found myself getting a real sense of the immensity of the landscape and the contrasts.

Now the boredom has set in ...the purposeless, the loneliness, for the protagonist I mean... I find myself experiencing that heaviness of spirit as I listen... again I guess this is the point .

Re other Hemingway I remember being profoundly moved by A Farewell to Arms which I devoured at 15 or 16 that book seems to me now the very antithesis of this one being so full of passion and urgency. In contrast again when I read The Old Man and the Sea many years later I found myself literally immersed in the experience and felt I was looking out with the old man’s eyes. I am no literary scholar but I guess this is why Hemingway is so admired. He can put you right there ... see what I see, feel what I feel..... it’s not about liking or disliking it’s about experiencing it ... for a little while ... walking in someone else’s shoes. We can close the book, walk away, go on with our busy lives ... but Jake has no such option. Nothing can restore his forced emasculation, restore him to full life, full manhood. So he sits and drinks and watches... a half-life. In a cafe in Spain with a couple of hedonistic and superficial companions he can put off the painful business of trying to re-enter life for a while yet.

Tweedledum wrote: "...We can close the book, walk away, go on with our busy lives ... but Jake has no such option. Nothing can restore his forced emasculation, restore him to full life, full manhood. So he sits and drinks and watches... a half-life..."

Off topic but this comment reminded me of the movie "The Big Chill" (which has a character who, like Jake, suffered emasculation as a result of a war wound). Maybe this movie could be seen as a modernization of "A Sun Also Rises" set in the U.S. post-Vietnam years instead of Spain post-WW1...

Tweedledum wrote: "Now the boredom has set in ...the purposeless, the loneliness, for the protagonist I mean... I find myself experiencing that heaviness of spirit as I listen... again I guess this is the point."

Tweedledum, you make a really interesting point--one that I hadn't thought of before. Hemingway is immersing us in the experience of being bored with life, of living half a life, as you put it.

The question in my mind is do I have to find the writing boring and without purpose in order to experience the boredom and purposelessness of the characters? I'm not sure about that. But if you're correct that Hemingway's goal was to have the reader experience the boredom and purposelessness of life that his characters experience, he succeeded admirably as far as I am concerned. I was bored to tears with the novel and couldn't figure out the point of it all.

Tamara and Tweedledum, I love your comments. It’s got me thinking. . . There are certainly many boring books about exciting events and topics, but is it possible to write an engaging, charming, or exciting book about ennui, impotence, and loneliness which is emotionally and spiritually honest?

Is it possible?
Hard to tell; not this one!!!!

Steve wrote: "...but is it possible to write an engaging, charming, or exciting book about ennui, impotence, and loneliness which is emotionally and spiritually honest?.."

I think the answer to that must be yes. The only example I can think of right now is Spill Simmer Falter Wither by Sara Baume. I read it a couple of years ago.

It's told in the first-person point of view with the narrator speaking to his dog. He was an abused child, is lonely, isolated, and a social misfit. Much of the novel is written in the present tense so that the reader witnesses the events alongside One Eye (the dog) just as they are happening. But very little happens in this book. What keeps you turning the pages is Baume’s exquisite prose. She draws the reader in and doesn’t let go.

So, I think, yes, it can be done. And done well.

Tamara: Baume’s book sounds great! Looking forward to reading it.

I enjoyed it, Steve. I hope you do, too.

Really interesting Tamara. I had never heard of it; I'll look for it