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Anyone ready for week 8, which covers the last four chapters of book 2 yet? Plenty of plot twists here - I'll be interested to see who saw what coming!

My chapter summaries (which I am getting increasingly glad that I did, though much of the book remains fresh in the memory).
(view spoiler)[
13. The mysterious sailor gets lost in Limehouse. The narrator explains his resemblance to Julius Handford aka Rokesmith. Rokesmith starts an interior monologue, which starts with him addressing himself as John Harmon! He explains how he met Radfoot on their voyage home, how they became friends and agreed a plot whereby Radfoot would pose as Harmon to find out about Bella. They go to Limehouse together and swap clothes, but he is then assaulted and thrown in the river and almost drowned. He makes it to shore and finds a pub, and spends 12 days in ahotel using money from a waterproof belt, emerging on the night the body is discovered. On discovering that he has been declared dead he adopts the name John Rokesmith. He decides that there is nothing to gain from saying who he really is and resolves to keep the Rokesmith identity. He returns to the Boffin house and makes a proposal to Bella, who rejects him, they agree not to talk of it.

14. The next morning, Rokesmith is still resolved to keep his false identity. He meets R Wilfer and they talk. Mrs Higden turns up at the Boffin house to discuss Sloppy, who is determined to keep working for her, though she knows it is not in his interest, so she wants to run away. Rokesmith advises Mrs Boffin to let her go, she agrees and offers to buy Mrs Higden everything she needs. Rokesmith then thinks about Riderhood’s statement, wanting it to go to Lizzie without her seeing him. He decides to send Sloppy to Headstone’s school. Headstone comes to see him, he talks to Headstone about the Hexams, the murder and Wrayburn. He sends Riderhood’s statement to Lizzie. The next morning they see Mrs Higden off.

15. Charley Hexam and Headstone go to see Lizzie, looking for her in the city to avoid Jenny’s interference. They go to a churchyard where Charley leaves Headstone to talk alone with her. Headstone declares his love for Lizzie, makes a proposal and attempts to persuade her to stop doing what Wrayburn wants. Lizzie rejects the proposal, Headstone leaves, and Lizzie is unmoved by Charley’s attempts to change her mind, they quarrel, and Charley storms off. Riah finds Lizzie alone and offers to walk her home, and they are soon found by Wrayburn �� Lizzie stays with Riah but Wrayburn insists on walking with them.

16. Twemlow joins the Lammles for a breakfast to celebrate their first wedding anniversary. They introduce him to Fledgeby and all the other friends arrive including Lightwood and Wrayburn. Mrs Lammle takes Twemlow aside and confesses their scheming for Georgiana, asking him to talk to her father and tell him about the plan.
(hide spoiler)]

Oooh it's all coming out now! I think I'm going to need to use spoiler tags for this section.

I had my suspicions that (view spoiler)[Harmon was alive somehow although the way it came about was a bit overly convoluted. I don't really know why the third identity of Julius Handforth was necessary and it just makes another name to remember! His internal battle of whether to reveal himself or not is really interesting and it is sweet that part of the reason he doesn't want to is that he doesn't want the Boffins to lose their inheritance. Even though they are a bit gullible, they are really trying to use their money for good (hide spoiler)]

Mrs Hidgen is such a strong woman and another one who I hope nothing bad comes to. I loved the understanding that she shared with the Boffins and that they understood her working class pride and self-advocacy. Plus her taking little Johnny's little soldier with her broke my heart! This was a great chapter.

My mind had changed from the last time that Charley and Headstone confronted Lizzie. They seriously need to learn to take no for an answer! But then again so does Wrayburn! His insistence on walking Lizzie home actually became quite scary (or maybe that's just my modern perspective) and Riah was the real hero of this chapter as the only one to accept Lizzie's wishes. I know some charge Dickens with anti-semitisim but I am finding this portrayal very sympathetic.

I'm still much more interested in the working class characters (including the Boffins) than the upper middle class characters and am finding myself rushing through their chapters. I think a lot of the satire is going over my head.

I'll put my reply in spoiler tags too.
(view spoiler)[
Jess wrote: "I don't really know why the third identity of Julius Handforth was necessary and it just makes another name to remember!"
My theory is that Julius Handford was a name he made up on the spur of the moment on the night "his" body was discovered, and that because Lightwood remembered it he decided to change it to avoid suspicion.

I found it interesting that Dickens chose to reveal one of the book's most important plot twists at this stage, because it means that the readers know more about Rokesmith than any of the other characters do.
(hide spoiler)]

Jess wrote: "Riah was the real hero of this chapter as the only one to accept Lizzie's wishes. I know some charge Dickens with anti-semitisim but I am finding this portrayal very sympathetic..."

I've finally caught up with the group read!

I was aware of the Dickens anti semitism charge too, and I agree with you about the sympatetic characterisation of Riah. Of the male characters in the book only Riah and Boffin are coming across to me as being genuinely kind and selfless. The anti semitic comments and inferences are coming from a character who has wrestled his way to the front of the queue in odiousness! It makes the portrayed hatred of Jews look ignorant, base and repellent.

Hugh wrote: "My chapter summaries (which I am getting increasingly glad that I did,..."
They are excellent, Hugh and a great reference point in a staged read of this sort.

Jess wrote: "His insistence on walking Lizzie home actually became quite scary (or maybe that's just my modern perspective)..."

The welfare of both Lizzie and Bella Wilfer worries me a bit. It seems that beauty is a magnet for unwelcome attention (nothing changed there). Far be it from me to criticise Dickens, but I do think that Lizzie and Bella are at times hard to differentiate. It's just different men whose advances they are having to repel.

Jess wrote: "I think a lot of the satire is going over my head."

It does for me too and I'm glad that others such as Xan are able to point it out for me, although I still missed it at first read.
There was so much anti-Semitism accepted in society of the time that you run into it in much of the literature, like Trollope. I thought that Dickens was reflecting the reality of the time but without sympathy to the anti-Semitism as he instead portrays Riah with sympathy.

Jonathan wrote: "Far be it from me to criticise Dickens, but I do think that Lizzie and Bella are at times hard to differentiate."

Hi, Jonathan,

I think their physical descriptions are alike, but for me that's as far as it goes. Lizzy is demure, loyal, and steadfast in her support and love for family and friends. She is self-sacrificing, probably to the point of self-injury. She's a paragon of virtue, and the embodiment of decency.

Bella, no so much. She is not demure. Nor is she blindly loyal to her family and friends like Lizzie is to hers, with the possible exception of her father. I have seen no tendency towards self-sacrifice, and she has already decided that money is a very high priority in her life, something I can't see Lizzie ever saying.

Of the two, Bella is more real to me. She's a good person, but she does take care of herself first, at least at this point in the book. Lizzie takes care of herself last.

I also agree that Dickens use of so many similar names with 2 distinct syllables made the early reading a bit confusing, especially as the characters often went many chapters before appearing again:
---Names such as:
Hand ford &
Head stone
--- then
Roke smith &
Rider hood
--- and even
Wray burn &
Light wood (burn-wood?)
---left me double-checking at times as to who was who, although it usually became apparent from the text. I do have the hang of the characters now.

Xan wrote: "She is self-sacrificing, probably to the point of self-injury. She's a paragon of virtue, and the embodiment of decency...."

Hi Xan,

well there's no doubting which of the fair damsels you favour....

Here's a small quiz for you and I bet you cant the two girls apart:

who says (in reaction to unwelcome attention):

“I do not like you and that I have never liked you from the first��
and
“It is not generous in you, it is not honourable in you, to conduct yourself towards me as you do�� . There is an end of this between us, now and forever

And for the gentlemen. Rokesmith and Headstone are tied for who can claim to be the most lovestruck (and unrequited)

I am under the influence of some tremendous attraction which I have resisted in vain
and
“I am truly, deeply, profoundly interested in you.��

Jonathan wrote: "Xan wrote: "She is self-sacrificing, probably to the point of self-injury. She's a paragon of virtue, and the embodiment of decency...."

Hi Xan,

well there's no doubting which of the fair damsels..."

Either is capable of the first quote if driven to it. But the second quote is Bella. The second quote has all the charm of a Lady's putdown -- "not generous," " not honorable," conduct." It could have been Austen who wrote that. Bella is the one who wants to put on airs. be rich, and be thought of as a Lady. Plus Lizzie has that presumptuous ass Headstone stalking her, and he deserves #1.

“I do not like you and that I have never liked you from the first�� I cheered a bit internally when Lizzie said this!

Ah yes, what a great week's reading! Things are starting to come out for sure. I have to say, I was surprised by the reveal this week, although looking back at the title of the book, I really shouldn't have been surprised.

As mentioned above, there are a lot of names to keep track of! I had a hard time remembering who the heck Julius Handford was until I read further. And to think that readers back in the day waited much longer in between reading each installment, you have to wonder how much of the various characters they actually were able to remember.

Speaking of names, I loved the part in chapter 16 where Lightwood is speaking of Rokesmith but can't remember his name:

"...his Secretary - an individual of the hermit-crab or oyster species, and whose name, I think, is Chokesmith - but it doesn't in the least matter - say Artichoke - to put himself in communication with Lizzie Hexam. Artichoke professes his readiness so to do, endeavours to do so, but fails."

And wow, I so wanted to punch Charley after Lizzie rejected Headstone's offer of marriage. What a punk. All he thinks of is himself and his station in life and making sure his sister doesn't bring him down, even though she was the one who looked out for him and sent him to school. He needs to be brought down a few notches.