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No Name > No Name - Week 12

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Hugh (bodachliath) | 316 comments Mod
This is the final section, and covers the last Between the Scenes section and the 4 chapters of the Final Scene. You can also use this thread to discuss the whole book with spoilers. I will add the chapter summaries here when I have typed them up.


message 2: by Brian E (last edited Jan 02, 2023 01:03AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Brian E Reynolds | 148 comments Some comments on the novel and ending chapters:

1. Magdalen can’t help herself. When the disinheritance first happened, she had a plan and had to go off alone and execute her plan, without her sister’s input. Similarly, at the story’s end, just when it all seems to be ending with a well-balanced result, she goes and rips up the Trust letter to disinherit herself and give control of the money to Norah and George. How magnanimous, you say? Magdalen has never been greedy or selfish � those aren’t faults of hers. But she has always had to be in control of what the result will be. She does life her way. She also likes your life done her way. I could never take being married to her.

2. But apparently Captain Kirke can. I do hope Kirke and Magdalen can be happily married. I do want Magdalen to be happy. I don’t dislike her; I just find her frustrating and not mate material. Right now, Kirke is so pw’d he would defer to Magdalen’s every whim. But that can’t last long. As life enters the mundane day to day I can’t imagine a man like Kirke, trained as a ship’s captain to control all aspects of shipboard day-to-day life, will continue that deference. When he does start to assert himself, I think that the marriage will still succeed as Magdalen will be successful in keeping Kirke thinking he’s involved in a seemingly decisive way, while ensuring everything really turns out her preferred way.

3. I thought it was interesting how certain story aspects I started off disliking ended up growing on me. First was Wragge. I found him tiresome at first and really worried about the amount of his involvement in the book. Then, I soon discovered that Wragge had grown to be the character whose presence was the highlight of the book, the person maintaining my interest in the story. What happened is that he started out as a one-dimensional character but, as he appeared more, Collins gave him more nuanced characteristics and he developed into a 3-dimensional character.

4. The second storytelling aspect that grew on me were the epistolary parts of the Between the Scenes Sections. I had looked forward to a non-epistolary novel so we could see how Collins could write with a third-party narrator and without relying on what I consider more gimmicky narrative devices. So, it bothered me when Collins started relying on such devices during the Between the Scenes sections. But by book’s end, these epistolary parts probably became my favorite parts of the novel. I do know that when I would get to that section, I would smile and look forward to reading it next. The BTS sections really propelled the story along and contained the variety of characters in switching scenes so lacking in the Seven Scenes constituting the main part of the book.

5. The ending was only moderately satisfying to me. Kirke and Magdalen seemed to end happily ever-after although, as described above, I have concerns. I don’t begrudge them some happiness. I will address several of my feelings on the ending in the next few points.

6. I was glad that Wragge reappeared and his business man schtick, while initially disappointing, became more satisfying as it became clear that he would not be totally abandoning his con-man ways as his pill business, with advertising and sales required, involves a bit of a con. I hated to see Wragge live a life without being a bit of a con man . It would be a waste of his God-given skills.

7. I did miss Wragge having one more scene with Lecount. I imagined one though, in a town where Wragge is pushing his pills and Lecount has a friend/relative to be visiting from the Continent. The two would be cordial and leave their face to face with both still ignorant of the estate inheritance outcome but Lecount smugly confident she had won. Their dialogue would be superficially cordial, exhibiting behind the words restraint and a smidgen of grudging respect previously unshown.

8. It was nice that Norah and George were able to get married. They both seem like nice respectful people who will make themselves and others happy. I’d show more enthusiasm, but I never developed that much enthusiasm for either character as I never got to know them that well. Unlike what he did with Wragge, Collins never developed either character beyond a one-dimensional one. If he had made the Norah/George relationship the ending of a more detailed Norah focused side story, they would have become three-dimensional characters and recipients of the readers empathy. I sound like a broken record but, really, the story would have been much better if Collins had added a more significant Norah-focused story thread.


Nidhi Kumari I liked the book. Nice story nicely told.
I too would have liked to know reaction of Lecount at the turn of events.
Magdalen at the of 19, schemed rashly without foresight, still she had my sympathy throughout the book for three reasons,
First , there were very limited career options for women at that time, Vanstone sisters were not trained to be a teacher , governess or a housekeeper. Like Bennet sisters of Pride and Prejudice they were expected to make good marriages.

Secondly, if the sister were boys .... Vanstone brothers born out of wedlock, they would have done the same ....marrying the heiress under hidden identity .... becoming a servant in house to gain something. Its just the fact that girls are expected to behave 'honourably' makes us uncomfortable.

Thirdly , I had a grudge against Mrs. Lecount she was hypocritic about the issue, she could have influenced Noel Vanstone to help the sisters legally.


Brian E Reynolds | 148 comments Nidhi wrote: "I had a grudge against Mrs. Lecount she was hypocritic about the issue, she could have influenced Noel Vanstone to help the sisters legally."

You're right on that, Nidhi. She bugged me too when she acted like she personally had some sympathy for the sisters' plight when she easily could have used her influence to talk Noel and probably his father Michael too, into some substantial payment. I imagined that she sat there and only uttered encouragement to Michael in his wrath-based decision making on aid to the sisters.
Her self-deception and self-aggrandizing on this issue prevented me from having any sympathy toward her when Wragge pulled some dirty tricks on her during their battles. I wanted Wragge to pull out everything he had in his bag of dirty tricks to use on her.


Hugh (bodachliath) | 316 comments Mod
I don't begrudge having read the book, as I enjoyed large parts of it, but for me the degree of contrivance in the last few sections got a little ridiculous, and all those deaths happened just when the plot demanded them...


message 6: by Jen (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jen | 67 comments Brian E wrote: "Some comments on the novel and ending chapters:

1. Magdalen can’t help herself. When the disinheritance first happened, she had a plan and had to go off alone and execute her plan, without her sis..."


Like Brian, the epistolary sections really grew on me and I found myself looking forward to them. Maybe because they propelled the plot forward - or possibly also because I listened to the audio and the voices for the characters were so well done (and featured prominently in these sections).


message 7: by Jen (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jen | 67 comments On reflection, I enjoyed this enough but it’s more the idea of the book and themes that I appreciated than the execution. I admire Collins for tackling these legal and political issues and am glad that we took the time to read this.

Magdalen was not a character I enjoyed spending time with. While I knew there would be (relatively) happy endings, it would have been a more interesting novel for me with a less clean resolution. I don’t think that’s realistic for the time in which it was written (or serial publishing format), but if one of the sisters had failed to find happiness it would have had more impact for me.


message 8: by Jen (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jen | 67 comments Thank you Hugh for your exceptional work with the schedule and summaries!


Linda | 1425 comments Sorry I'm just now visiting this thread!

I enjoyed my first experience of reading Collins as the beginning pulled me in right away and then even when things didn't go according to my expectations, I was still intrigued enough with the characters and plot to continue on. It was certainly easier reading than Dickens.

I felt a bit let down by the ending. Like Jen, I would have preferred a less happy ending for everyone involved. I was happy for Norah and George, but I wanted more of the book with their story so I could know them better. As it was, my happiness for them was just on the surface. I really didn't care for Kirke being introduced early on in the book, only to disappear for the bulk of it, and then to reappear at the exact time that Magdalen needed to be saved. And really, he loved her because of a mere glance as she walked past him? Also, I agree with Brian that Magdalen will be manipulative behind the scenes in her marriage to Kirke. She is very controlling.

Thank you, Hugh, for posting the threads and summaries. I enjoyed my journey through this book, and reading everyone's thoughts and anticipations of what was to happen in upcoming chapters. Everyone's input made this read much more enjoyable than if I had read it on my own.


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