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American Notes for General Circulation
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All Around Dickens Year > American Notes for General Circulation Vol. 1 (hosted by John)

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message 151: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 13, 2025 05:18AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
The main impression of New England I am left with is how new, clean, fresh and colourful everything looks to Charles Dickens. His reference here to the smallness of the steamboat intrigued me:"Mr. Paap, the celebrated Dwarf, might have lived and died happily in the cabin"

Apparently this is Simon Paap, a Dutch dwarf born in 1789 in Zandvoort. At 29 he was only 28" tall and weighed only 27 lb. He spoke Dutch, French and English, and met the English royal family in 1815, appeared twice at the Covent garden theatre and died in 1828.

Like John I was interested in the Blue Laws, although I did not know that term. Sunday closing was mandatory in England until 1994 (that is not a typo!) and even today large shops can by law only open on Sundays for 6 consecutive hours between 10am and 6pm. Charles Dickens would not have expected anything else, although the idea of a man not being allowed to kiss his wife on Sunday might make him laugh, as it did me. Saucy comedians might ask whether in that case he was allowed to kiss another man's wife 😉... but the Inimitable rises above such a thought. I gather that many of these laws were not enforced.

Ah, thank you Connie! I was hoping you would explain about the charter and King Charles II, since you are our Connecticut expert. 😊


message 152: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 13, 2025 05:17AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
As for Pontefract, everything about this made me laugh as it's a smallish market town in West Yorkshire, near the city where I was born. My Dad used to love Pontefract cakes
and yes, Petra there is definitely still a castle ruin there, which I think we visited from Primary school. You have given us the best link to wiki about the town 😊

I don't think it is ever a personal name, except for this town: "Pontefract" originates from the Latin for "broken bridge". The joke is that neither the lady nor apparently Charles Dickens realised this 😂But then the lady also said she was an antediluvian, (i.e. dating from before the Ark) and seemed to be dancing about, so we can't expect her to make sense!

Like John, I enjoyed the fact that Dickens brought out the humour in this episode by respecting but also humouring the patients. He was initially most taken aback when he thought one of them actually realised that they were in an insane asylum.

Thanks John! I'm enjoying everyone's observations, and have linked your summary to the first post.


message 153: by John (last edited Feb 13, 2025 08:41AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "The main impression of New England I am left with is how new, clean, fresh and colourful everything looks to Charles Dickens. His reference here to the smallness of the steamboat in..."

Jean, the Blue Laws where I grew up were interesting. You could go to a grocery store and buy food as needed. But the aisles with anything that denoted work � such as mops and cleaning supplies � were roped off. No purchases from those aisles allowed.

All other types of stores and commercial establishments were closed. The kids who lived near the two malls in the county had huge empty parking lots for kickball every Sunday.


message 154: by Sam (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sam | 410 comments The American Elm that Dickens mentions was a native of Connecticut. It was a magnificent tree that unfortunately was almost eliminated by a blight in the twentieth century. These large trees made splendid property borders and the home I grew up in had several used in that way bordering a sunken garden and main road. Here is an article on the American Elm with graphics from New Haven from the nineteenth century.




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John (jdourg) | 284 comments Sam wrote: "The American Elm that Dickens mentions was a native of Connecticut. It was a magnificent tree that unfortunately was almost eliminated by a blight in the twentieth century. These large trees made s..."

Very interesting, Sam. I had forgotten about Dutch Elm Disease and similar blights. One thing that has occurred to me is I wonder if Dickens kept a notebook. The biographical history always seems to say the book was formed mostly from letters to Forster. But I like to think he kept a notebook.


message 156: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
John wrote: "You could go to a grocery store and buy food as needed. But the aisles with anything that denoted work � such as mops and cleaning supplies � were roped off...."

That's extraordinary John! But perhaps after all it merely demonstrates how much larger everything is in the States. Some people may have had to travel miles for food, if they did not grow their own, and if they had no transport, banning them from buying any on perhaps their only day off would be very strict.


message 157: by Petra (new)

Petra | 2122 comments Connie (on semi-hiatus) wrote: "The Charter Oak in Hartford is still a big deal. The charter from King Charles was hidden in a hollow spot of a huge oak tree during colonial times. ..."

That's so cool! I have never heard of the Charter Oak or its history. I love that a stump was made into a throne for kids to play on.


message 158: by Petra (last edited Feb 13, 2025 02:48PM) (new)

Petra | 2122 comments John wrote: "Interestingly, I was struck by the reference to Blue Laws. The county in New Jersey where I grew up, and to this day, has Blue Laws. Stores are closed on Sunday. ..."

I've never heard of the Blue Laws but I recall when stores were closed on Sundays. The parking lots used to be used to teach kids to drive on Sundays.

Jean, I don't recall when the laws changed here to have stores open on Sundays. I think it may have been a few years earlier than 1994 but it was in that same ballpark of Time.


message 159: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Petra wrote: "John wrote: "Interestingly, I was struck by the reference to Blue Laws. The county in New Jersey where I grew up, and to this day, has Blue Laws. Stores are closed on Sunday. ..."

I've never heard..."


It was an odd thing in New Jersey. There are 21 counties in the state and only one had Blue Laws.


message 160: by Petra (new)

Petra | 2122 comments John, I'm up in Western Canada. I'd love to visit the East coast one day.


message 161: by Sue (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sue | 1098 comments Though I haven’t commented, I have been catching up on the reading and it appears I am about where I’m supposed to be. I live in Massachusetts and we had blue laws for over half of my life. I don’t actually remember when things changed but we still have some vestiges left. Stores are closed on Christmas and Thanksgiving here. There is a growing trend among some national retailers now to close on some of these major holidays now. Not part of blue laws but a law passed in reaction to drunk driving, MA also outlawed Happy Hours at bars. I see that bars are now talking about reversing this, but I think it has probably saved lives.


message 162: by Sue (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sue | 1098 comments Another comment, I’m really enjoying Dickens’s observations and his writing. His interest in all aspects of the world around him is obvious. No wonder he was able to create such great characters.


message 163: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Sue wrote: "Though I haven’t commented, I have been catching up on the reading and it appears I am about where I’m supposed to be. I live in Massachusetts and we had blue laws for over half of my life. I don’t..."

Although I am relatively new to North Carolina, at one time based primarily upon the Baptist Church, there was no alcohol sold on Sunday. Then that changed to no alcohol sold on Sunday before 12 Noon. Now it is 7:00 AM. Societal changes, which are not always the best, in my opinion. I’d rather see it not sold again.


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John (jdourg) | 284 comments Sue wrote: "Another comment, I’m really enjoying Dickens’s observations and his writing. His interest in all aspects of the world around him is obvious. No wonder he was able to create such great characters."

One of the most enjoyable aspects for me has been the snapshot in time, so to speak. Reading his descriptions is like looking at a panorama of bright, vivid colors and crystal clear objects.


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 501 comments I also grew up with “blue laws� outside Dallas, Texas
but I don’t remember calling them by that name. No shopping AT ALL. Alcohol was never sold in grocery stores. Actually, in my hometown of Irving no alcohols was sold EVER anywhere. It was called a “dry� city. I remember my Dad complaining about that. Sunday was a serious, solemn day in the “Bible Belt�.

I don’t drink alcohol to this day!


message 166: by Petra (new)

Petra | 2122 comments Sue wrote: "Another comment, I’m really enjoying Dickens’s observations and his writing. His interest in all aspects of the world around him is obvious. No wonder he was able to create such great characters."

Sue, I'm also enjoying Dickens' obvious enjoyment for Life. He's fully interested in everything around him and that's contagious and delightful.


message 167: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments A good overview of Blue Laws in the United States. Interestingly enough, my old county in New Jersey has one of the lengthier stories.




message 168: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 15, 2025 01:09PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
It is, John! And a great link, thank you.

I'm another who did not know the term "Blue Laws", although as I say Sunday Trading was illegal in England too, so Charles Dickens would not have been surprised.

So to put this into context:

Although he was a Christian, some may be surprised at his stance on Sunday worship, and its effect on working people. The essay Sunday under three heads. As it is; as Sabbath bills would make it; as it might be made is well worth a read. We may well read it as a group some time, but for those interested, the Gutenberg edition is

Charles Dickens examines the consequences of not allowing poor people to relax with entertainment on the one half day they might have off from their dogged working lives.


message 169: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Mar 24, 2025 01:09PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
I have now read to the end of this chapter, and really enjoyed the entrance to New York on what seemed to this Englishman like a "huge bath" but was actually a steamboat 😆

Do we have any New Yorkers here? Or anyone who has visited New York? To my shame I didn't even realise it was an island until a few years ago, and only know the popular tourist views. So how different would it have been, approaching then and now? Charles Dickens makes it sound exciting, but I don't get a sense of what it looks like in detail.


message 170: by Connie (last edited Feb 15, 2025 11:49AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Connie  G (connie_g) | 997 comments Jean, New York State is west of my home state of Connecticut. New York City is in the southeastern part of New York State. Today NYC has five boroughs--Manhattan, Staten Island, Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. Manhattan and Staten Island are each separate islands, Brooklyn and Queens are on the western end of Long Island, and the Bronx is part of mainland New York State. Manhattan is where most of the tourist attractions are located--Broadway for theater, the Empire State Building, lots of museums, Central Park, and Wall Street financial district, etc.

Originally, only Manhattan Island was New York City. Then the city annexed more land from other parts of New York State. So Dickens is probably just referring to Manhattan in 1842 when he wrote about New York City.




message 171: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 15, 2025 01:16PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Thank you very much Connie! I can see that will be very useful in the next chapter. So at the end of chapter 5, when he says:

"there lay stretched out before us, to the right, confused heaps of buildings, with here and there a spire or steeple, looking down upon the herd below; and here and there, again, a cloud of lazy smoke; and in the foreground a forest of ships� masts, cheery with flapping sails and waving flags."

he is describing Manhatten? And isn't that the posh bit, now? (Please excuse me if I'm being crass!)


message 172: by Shirley (stampartiste) (last edited Feb 16, 2025 05:02AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Shirley (stampartiste) | 466 comments Chapter V was such a fun chapter, and all of the comments here are really adding to my understanding of the times.

Connie: I loved your addition of information on the Charter Oak. I looked it up, and it is so amazing. I loved that the early Native Americans begged the settlers not to cut it down: "It has been the guide of our ancestors for centuries as to the time of planting our corn; when the leaves are the size of a mouse's ears, then is the time to put the seed into the ground". And how wonderful that the Charter Oak is still honored to this day.

Peter: Thank you SO much for adding your information about the long-time friendship between Dickens and Henry Wordsworth Longfellow. I saved your article to my computer and will take the time to read it at a more leisurely pace. I'm not surprised that they became friends - both of them could experience and express their feelings so well. I still cry every time I read Wordsworth's "Christmas Bells" - written during the Civil War when he didn't know if his son was still alive.

And I may be off base here, but when the old lady in the insane asylum told Dickens she was anti-diluvian, I recalled my Freshman historical geology class (geology was my field) when we discussed the early geologists of the 1700 and 1800s who studied the stratified rocks of England and disputed a flood origin for them. So there was a big diluvian (creationists) and anti-diluvian (scientists) schism for years! So when the old lady said she was anti-diluvian (she supported the new theory of a very old Earth), I thought she must have been pretty intelligent at one time.

I am really loving to see a "new, clean, fresh and colourful" America (as Jean described it) through Dickens' eyes.


message 173: by Sue (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sue | 1098 comments Shirley, thanks for that information. I love the possible explanation of that woman’s comment..


message 174: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 16, 2025 11:35AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "So there was a big diluvian (creationists) and anti-diluvian (scientists) schism for years! ..."

Oh yes! Perhaps as you say Shirley, she had been an educated person. I had just thought she was joking about being as old as the ark! But the terminology implies she is intellectual. Well spotted!


Shirley (stampartiste) | 466 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "I had just thought she was joking about being as old as the ark!"

That made me laugh out loud, Jean! That interpretation never occurred to me... but I love it. I think I'll use it the next time somebody asks me for my age. I'll just tell them "I'm anti-deluvian." 😂


message 176: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 16, 2025 01:20PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
There was a family story about me in a museum as a tiny tot, being shown some prehistoric artefact, and its great age being impressed on me. Apparently I thought for a bit, and then said with some awe, "That's even older than grandma!" (She was evidently the oldest thing I could think of!) 😆

The more I think about this, the more I think Dickens intended it as a sort of pun. So the joke was being elderly herself, but also with the double meaning you pointed out Shirley, with the current Creationist and Darwinian controversy.


Shirley (stampartiste) | 466 comments I bet that made your grandmother’s day, Jean! 😂 “Out of the mouths of babes!�


message 178: by John (last edited Feb 16, 2025 03:11PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments VOLUME ONE
Chapter The Sixth

New York

Dickens immediately notes that New York is by no means as clean a city as Boston, but it shares some characteristics. He finds everything "not quite" as gaudy or golden or bright or twinkling, but it is teeming with people and warmer weather.

"Heaven save the ladies, how they dress! We have seen more colors in these ten minutes than we should have seen elsewhere in as many days. What various parasols! What rainbow sllks and satins! What pinking of thin stockings and pinching of thin shoes and fluttering of ribbons and silk tassels, and display of rich cloaks with gaudy hoods and linings!"

The city is teeming with life and vibrancy. It just seems busy. They visit Wall Street, Broadway, Battery Gardens. Then on to -- what else? -- a prison known as The Tombs for its Egyptian looking architecture. He does find it a dreadful place and is happy to get back to the "cheerful" streets.

He notes the city scavengers -- the pigs. It seems they are more prevalent, perhaps, than dogs or cats.

On to Almack's, which seems to be a large club where dancing and singing happens. And then he seems to emerge back near The Tombs. But it is getting dark and time for bed.

The next several days involves more visits to institutions: The State Hospital for Insane Paupers, the City Penitentiary, and the Bellevue Almshouse. Dickens describes them as "profoundly dark." He also describes the state prison at Sing Sing -- later a rather famous prison for its riots -- and the Refuge for the Destitute.

But then on to the theaters, and although he grieves to write that he found them generally deserted, he was impressed with them. He also delivers a powerful closing to this chapter:

"I never thought of going back to England, returning to all that are dear to me, and to pursuits that have insensibly grown to be a part of my nature, I could have felt so much sorrow as I endured, when I parted at last, on board this ship, with the friends who had accompanied me from this city. I never thought the name of any place, so far away and so lately known, could ever associate itself in my mind with the crowd of affectionate remembrances that now cluster about."


message 179: by John (last edited Feb 16, 2025 03:24PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments The scene at Almack's was quite roaring. An interesting footnote about Almack's:

The original was Almack's Assembly Rooms in King Street, St James's, London. In New York, it was the name of a club owned by Peter Williams, where songs and dances were performed by waitresses and others. After Dickens' visit, it was renamed Dickens Place.

And I must say I had never heard of The Tombs. But it has quite a history, to this day, and could easily be the subject of a book.




message 180: by John (last edited Feb 17, 2025 02:00AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments I remember staying in New York for a conference many years ago. I was at a hotel called the Halloran House, which was across the street from the Waldorf Astoria. My first hotel stay in New York and I may have felt somewhat like Dickens. Here is a letter to Forster:

About half past 2 [pm February 12], we arrived here. In half an hour more, we reached this hotel (Carlton House on Broadway], where a very splendid suite of rooms was prepared for us; and where everything is very comfortable, and no doubt (as at Boston) enormously dear [$2.00 a day.


message 181: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 17, 2025 09:34AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Thanks John for your excellent summary and interesting comments. I have read up to the section about Five Points, which appears to be the slum district. I’ll read the final third tomorrow.

I am struck yet again by the clear evidence that Charles Dickens is observing and reporting to his readers on the “social experiment� that modern America was considered to be, after England had ploughed money into it. He is not there as a tourist, and is deliberately seeking out places others would avoid.

I’m amazed that he gains admission so easily - just as he did to the institutions in Boston - and for instance here to The Tombs prison, and then has two strong policeman as escorts and guards, when investigating the dodgy backstreets of a notorious area in Five Points. Presumably this is because of his celebrity status. But he always has in mind his perceived duty as a social campaigner.

I really enjoyed the style of this chapter: the confidential and chatty tone he employs. It really feels as if he and I are taking a stroll around the city, with his “Let us go down,� and “We have got at the right address� and so on. And I too marked the passage you quoted, John.

He describes The Tombs prison faithfully, without comment, but by his selections of what to describe and reported speech, it is easy for us to draw our own conclusions. No he does not like it. Specifically that the prisoners have no access to air and exercise, (which we can tell he feels is a basic right) and that the “coloured folk� are put in the lower cells, in insanitary conditions. And that their clothes have to be kept on the floor.

And that poor child, kept thus as a witness to his father’s murder of his mother, when he is blameless and his needs are clear to any person with any humanity. 😢


message 182: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 17, 2025 09:50AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Feral Pigs

Oh, John, I read that entire episodes about the pigs as a satire! I assumed that because we in England use the word “pig� as an insult, it must be a metaphor here. e.g. the criminal slang for police is “pigs�, plus we can use it either of someone we dislike, or a group (e.g. in the 1960s women’s liberation bandied around the term “male chauvinist pigs�). I can see how politicians, or city gents in London could be insultingly called “pigs� as a group or species. So since we are near Wall St., with its city financiers, it seemed to fit. I was puzzled at the sudden change of tone though. So far Charles Dickens has been courteous and respectful to all he meets. Why risk annoying them in such a rude way?.

Your summary “He notes the city scavengers -- the pigs. It seems they are more prevalent, perhaps, than dogs or cats� made me wonder if he could be speaking literally after all, unlikely as it seemed �

So I googled and found this great article “The Hogs of New York� with illustrations from the time.



Escapees were a real problem! New Yorkers used a lot of pork in their cooking, but they had indeed multiplied. Some people were in favour as pigs were useful scavengers, clearing up refuse, but did not fit in with the growing industrialisation. Seven years after Charles Dickens is reporting:

“A cholera outbreak in 1849 brought about a change in attitudes and a heightened concern over public sanitation. The city was able to finally remove pigs from the streets of Manhattan.�

So, it is indeed a satire, but the other way round from how I initially read it! Instead of the city gents being described as

“He leaves his lodgings every morning at a certain hour, throws himself upon the town, gets through his day in some manner quite satisfactory to himself, and regularly appears at the door of his own house again at night,�

� …a free-and-easy, careless, indifferent kind of pig, having a very large acquaintance among other pigs of the same character, whom he rather knows by sight than conversation, as he seldom troubles himself to stop and exchange civilities�,

� � in every respect a republican pig, going wherever he pleases, and mingling with the best society, on an equal, if not superior footing, for every one makes way when he appears, and the haughtiest give him the wall, if he prefer it�


and so on, these are actual feral pigs, being described as if they are city gents. It is brilliant, and causes no offence to anyone! What an eyeopener - thanks John.

(Your summary is now linked to the first comment, for everyone’s convenience.)


Mary Lou | 17 comments Greetings, all. I'm late joining and have just finished chapter 2, The Passage Out. Two comments, thus far:

First, in talking about going on deck after a bit of sea sickness, Dickens says, "...I literally 'tumbled up' on deck at noon." The phrase "tumbled up" jumped out at me, as I remembered that being his description of how the Pocket children were raised in Great Expectations, i.e. instead of being brought up, they tumbled up, implying a certain lack of parental guidance. I can't recall ever hearing anyone else use this funny phrase, which Dickens uses in two different scenarios, both humorous and evocative.

Second, I happen to have started the Nathaniel Philbrick book Mayflower shortly before starting this book, and it's fascinating to read the accounts of these two trans-Atlantic voyages, about 220 years apart. While the Dickens' Britannia voyage ranged from uncomfortable to downright harrowing, the passengers on the Mayflower would certainly have been happy to trade places with them. All in all, it makes me feel quite glad to have never been on a cruise ship.



message 184: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Mary Lou wrote: "Greetings, all. I'm late joining and have just finished chapter 2, The Passage Out. Two comments, thus far:

First, in talking about going on deck after a bit of sea sickness, Dickens says, "...I l..."


Mary Lou, one of my memories of his ocean voyage was him sitting in his room during the storm and finding the door to his room standing on its head. Now that is a storm.


message 185: by Peter (last edited Feb 18, 2025 01:15AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Peter | 181 comments John wrote: "VOLUME ONE
Chapter The Sixth

New York

Dickens immediately notes that New York is by no means as clean a city as Boston, but it shares some characteristics. He finds everything "not quite" as gaud..."


When Dickens left Boston he left Longfellow and the other members of the group from Harvard. Dickens would continue to correspond with them as he continued his travels. Dickens made friends of a like mind to himself easily and in Boston he was very happy and comfortable.

We have read Dickens’s impressions of Boston and now we begin to see New York through his eyes. Dickens is settling into a routine.


message 186: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 18, 2025 12:28PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Mary Lou wrote: "Greetings, all. I'm late joining and have just finished chapter 2, The Passage Out. Two comments, thus far ..."

YAY! I'm so pleased you've managed to squeeze this one in Mary Lou - welcome. We now have 40 in our read of this enjoyable and fascinating book. John has said for a long time that it's surprising it's not read more widely by Dickens' enthusiasts.

No worries about the delayed start. Each chapter discussion beginning is linked in the first post, to help you navigate and read the comments at the right time for you. As is John's schedule. And just a warning that your next chapter (ch 3) is at least double the length of the others! 🤔(John checked for us) But as he explains at the start, we have a gentle, steady pace.

"Tumbled up" is such a typical lively description for Dickens, isn't it? Thanks for spotting this one 😊


message 187: by Sam (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sam | 410 comments The great chapter six works as a self-contained essay.

Dickens again tries to emulate was his senses perceive with his prose like he did on the ship and train, but this time trying to capture the bustle of New York City. John's first quote in his summary is an excellent example and the paragraph from which he extracted it fully gives the picture.

I also see the pigs as a satirical reference but in fun, not meanness.
They also serve as a synecdoche where his naming the pigs brings to the reader's mind the odor associated with them and note all the references he makes to smells in the chapter. I'd argue that Dickens definitely wanted to inform us that New York reeked.

The dancer from Almack's described by Dickens has quite a bit written about him, as an example of early tap, as a minstrel performance, and as an example where Dickens' description brought the subject fame. I am linking the Wikipedia article on him. I tried to link the picture but computer said, "no."




message 188: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Here you go, Sam:




message 189: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 19, 2025 03:31AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
It makes a big difference when you realise that there were real pigs, I think, Sam! The metaphor stands on its head. No it's not mean, I agree, and I like your associated suggestions.

I've now read to the end of the chapter and see why Dickens reported his visit to the Tombs prison verbatim. He has left it to now to pour forth his indignation about the conditions, rather than vent his spleen to the attendant. After all, the man was just an employee. But now ...

"Why, such indecent and disgusting dungeons as these cells, would bring disgrace upon the most despotic empire in the world! Look at them, man—you, who see them every night, and keep the keys. Do you see what they are? Do you know how drains are made below the streets, and wherein these human sewers differ, except in being always stagnant?"

And more ... wow! The description of the Lunatic Asylum was equally powerful and vituperative.

Did others pick up the criticism of the American tendency to organise everything according to party politics?:

"the miserable strife of Party feeling is carried even into this sad refuge of afflicted and degraded humanity ...

the governor of such a house as this, is appointed, and deposed, and changed perpetually, as Parties fluctuate and vary, and as their despicable weathercocks are blown this way or that? ...

A hundred times in every week, some new most paltry exhibition of that narrow-minded and injurious Party Spirit, which is the Simoom of America, sickening and blighting everything of wholesome life within its reach, was forced upon my notice"


I'd no idea this went so far back.

John (or anyone) have you any idea how long he was in New York? I never seem to be able to pick this up.


message 190: by John (last edited Feb 18, 2025 01:01PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "It make a big difference when you realise that there were real pigs, I think, Sam! The metaphor stands on its head. No it's not mean, I agree, and I like your associated suggestions.

I've now read..."


Jean, this link gives the dates, or approximate dates, for each of the cities or locations he visited. It appears he spent about three weeks in New York.




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Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Ohhh thanks John! I kept meaning to look at David Perdue's page in case he had a map. He often does that with the novels, but of course those maps are very spoilerish. So he's got this from the Pilgrim letters ... lucky chap to have a copy!


Bridget | 996 comments Wonderful comments everyone! The pig satire is fabulous! I think it works as both a satire of the seedy underbelly of capitalism (which we know Dickens writes about often) with the financial men as pigs. And at the same time as a satire of real pigs run amok and anthropomorphized. Dickens is one of the only writers who could pull of both meanings at the same time.


message 193: by Sue (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sue | 1098 comments I was very surprised when I saw that Dickens went to Five Points, then surprised again that he wasn't accosted while he was there. I know he was accompanied and had guards, but my impression of that area from reading about it durinf the 19th century is that there law didn't exist there. But I guess Dickens exists evcerywhere!


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Peter | 181 comments Yes, the ‘injurious Party Spirit� has been noticed by Dickens as well as the horrid squalor of the prisons. So far, he seems to have enjoyed his time in Boston more than his experiences in New York.

I really enjoyed Bridget’s comments and summary (192) concerning how to read/interpret the presence of the pigs. You're so right as to how Dickens pulled both of the meanings off.


message 195: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
I think so too, reading it again. Thanks Bridget for adding this insightful reflection!


message 196: by Sam (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sam | 410 comments Thanks Jean for posting the image of Juba, but I was trying to post another image that gave a better impression of the Almack's establishment and the type of tap dance Dickens saw. I think I got it this time but I couldn't seem to get the image to post yesterday. The engraving is from the 1842 edition of American Notes but no artist was listed.





message 197: by John (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "Ohhh thanks John! I kept meaning to look at David Perdue's page in case he had a map. He often does that with the novels, but of course those maps are very spoilerish. So he's got this from the Pil..."

This reminded me of a great Dickens book I had: Charles Dickens A to Z: The Essential Reference to His Life & Work.

It did not make the move to North Carolina with me, but it was donated to my local library. I really liked it, though � this large trade paperback type book. I may order a new one for myself.


message 198: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 20, 2025 08:39AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
Sam wrote: "Thanks Jean for posting the image of Juba, but I was trying to post another image that gave a better impression of the Almack's establishment and the type of tap dance Dickens saw. I think I got it..."

OK, I'm glad that worked for you today Sam, as I know how randomly selective GR can be as to which images and links it allows, so thought I'd have a go for you (and thought you wanted this one 🙄 sorry! 😆)

Now I've gone down another rabbit hole, looking into the artist. The original 1842 edition by Chapman and Hall was unillustrated (I'm reliably informed by my various Dickens dictionaries etc.) Although Clarkson Frederick Stanfield, the marine artist we've come across before painted two oils (in Dickens and the Artists by Mark Bills), and they are included in some modern editions, that doesn't look like his style.

Looking further into this, Chapman and Hall did publish illustrations in their Household Edition, issued later - between 1871 and 1879 - and commissioned the American political cartoonist Thomas Nast to make wood-engravings. I think the one you posted must be one of these. It looks like Thomas Nast's style.

If you are looking at a reprint, perhaps they have included the later illustrations with the original 1842 text? I find that publishers do this sometimes.


message 199: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Feb 20, 2025 09:00AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8311 comments Mod
John wrote: "a great Dickens book I had: Charles Dickens A to Z: The Essential Reference to His Life & Work ..."

Aw, I hope you find another copy, John! Then you can feel even better about donating your other one to the library and introducing new readers to learning more about him. My Dickens shelf on GR goes to 13 pages, but my proudest acquisition is Dickens' Working Notes for His Novels edited by Harry Stone. It looks quite normal here, doesn't it, but is the size of a small coffee table and seems to weigh a ton! Hard to find in the UK at least at a reasonable price, so Chris insisted I got it as a present from him when one came up. 😊He'd probably say the same of the multi-volume Pilgrim Letters, but they aren't likely to come up during my lifetime. And I am still waiting for one which I bought with some Christmas money and the Global Buyer promised it would arrive (from the USA) by the end of February. Charles Dickens himself might have brought it quicker from his travels. 😂

To bring this back to topic (oops sorry!) I have just seen a copy of the first edition (1842) of American Notes for General Circulation for £2900, if anybody's piggy bank is bursting (Manhattan piggies or not! 😉)


message 200: by John (last edited Feb 20, 2025 09:17AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

John (jdourg) | 284 comments Here is the schedule for Volume Two, which completes our read. Jean, if you can move it to the top, that would be great.

American Notes has three appendixes, but the total number of pages for all three is only about seven. I think we can read Chapter the Tenth and review the appendixes at the same time we have a final discussion. I also encourage everyone to review the Endnotes if available with your edition. I have found the Endnotes to be both illuminating and helpful.

VOLUME TWO

March 1: Chapter The First

March 3: Chapter The Second

March 6: Chapter The Third

March 9: Chapter The Fourth

March 12: Chapter The Fifth

March 15: Chapter The Sixth

March 18: Chapter The Seventh

March 21: Chapter The Eighth

March 24 Chapter The Ninth

March 27: Chapter The Tenth, Appendixes, and Final Thoughts


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