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Group Reads Discussions 2008
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AGoT - Favourite character/Hated character
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Shannon
(last edited Jun 01, 2008 04:10PM)
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Jun 01, 2008 03:39PM

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I hate Sansa most of the time, it's hard for me to grasp the way she thinks. To understand her goals and values because they don't make sense to me, as me.
I for one love the epic cast of characters because it leaves no room for the black and white of good and bad. It is easy to like one characterize more than the rest but it's hard to call anyone good or evil.

My favorite character was Dany. I enjoyed the way she changed from victim to leader. I would have enjoyed the book more if it had been a lot shorter and centered on her.
As far as least favorite characters, there's probably more than I can name. I think Caitlyn's sister was probably the one I hated the most. What a terrible woman. At least the queen was upfront about her evil. Caitlyn's sister was evil and didn't even realize it.


I wanted to like Eddard, but ended up bored with his character....I wanted him to DO something.

And, while not strictly a main character, I'm just in flat-out hatred of Robert. Having read the books faithfully, I know all of the trouble that the last Targaryen (sp?) started. But - my god - Robert? Ugh. I'd call him the Usurper, too.

(for want of a better word) spunky.
But when I read the rest of the series I realised how much I missed Ned. Also somethings that I deduced from the later books changed my view of Ned slightly (not massively just a few little comments and hints made me realise he was not quite as simple and single minded as I thought).
Sansa in AGOT is dim, just plain dim; she just doesn't realise what a snake pit Kings Landing is. As others have mentioned her aims and motives are hard to emphasise with. In the rest of the series her development is slow and does not really kick into book 4 were she becomes (for me at least) very interesting indeed.
Lysa Arryn, ARGH, how I loathed her!

Also Love/Hate Cersi -- She is a fantastic villian.

I hate Lysa for being such a blithering idiot but I completely loathe Cersei.


Jon Snow for being Jon Snow
Dani and Arya for being thrown into awful situations yet managing to make the best of it and maybe even coming out on top. Disliked Sansa for being the exact opposite. I began to understand her a little better further on in the series as you realise that she is clinging desperately to how she wants the world to be instead of acknowledging just how bad it can be.
And of course Cersei, the one everybody loves to hate. But top of the hate list is Caitlyn - the blindness and narrow mindness of this woman drives me crazy!

here here! she had a real stick up her bum too.

Can't stand Sansa.
Cersei- I love her for being as awful as she is, as Terri said she's a fantastic villan.


Cersei, I hated here also, but again, later...
What I love about Martin is that his characters are always changing, growing, there is always more behind.
I liked Tyrion because he gets the best lines. Actually, Sansa is a good (if hard to swallow) character because her motivations and fallibility make the story a little less epic.
I don't see Cersei as evil, but I don't see her as much of a character either--just a plot device.
Didn't like Ned because he seemed unbelievably stupid. Martin seems to fall into the trap of equating morality with stupidity. Of course, maybe that's what he wants us to think about and reject.
I didn't like Dany because she never connected to the main story. Sandi, maybe Dany should get her own book and make both of us happy.
I don't see Cersei as evil, but I don't see her as much of a character either--just a plot device.
Didn't like Ned because he seemed unbelievably stupid. Martin seems to fall into the trap of equating morality with stupidity. Of course, maybe that's what he wants us to think about and reject.
I didn't like Dany because she never connected to the main story. Sandi, maybe Dany should get her own book and make both of us happy.

I also think Sansa's character has a lot of growing up to do. Right now, she's a typical pre-teen. She's got a lot of romantic ideas and had never encountered the harsh realities of power and politics. In this book, she's just starting to try to resolve her romantic fantasies with the sordid intrigue she's caught up in.
One of the things I did like about this book was how age-appropriate the children were. They're not miniature adults or cutesy accessories, they're realistic kids and each one's thought processes and actions are appropriate for a child of that particular age.


Least favorite POV is Sansa, but my least favorite character is Joffrey. He is just cruel and tyrannical.


Jon Snow and Arya have been my favourites all the way through, though. And, the direwolves. My kingdom for a direwolf!

Here's a proposal (Though I'm not sure I buy it.): Maybe Lady's death is the symbolic consequence of Sansa's turning against her family.

I refer to the fact that she betrayed her sister and her family's honor by not testifying. Immediately afterward, the novelist--instead of the head of her family--punished her.
Each of the Starks has their own personality, so I wouldn't say that she doesn't belong. Martin might have thought of it that way, though.
Each of the Starks has their own personality, so I wouldn't say that she doesn't belong. Martin might have thought of it that way, though.
Where are you getting the notion that Sansa's a victimized tool of her family? We see the sisters being treated similarly by a strict governess and an indulgent father. Yet they are completely different. Sansa's relation to the world would thus seem to be innate, not beaten into her.
Her betrayal is the result of life [or the author, if you prefer] placing her in a situation where she would fail. This is a recurring theme throughout the book. Ned, Vyserys, and Arya all fail in situations that might not trouble someone with a different personality.
I agree that Ned's betrothal of Sansa is more than a little twisted and that Lady's death could also be symbolic of that.
Her betrayal is the result of life [or the author, if you prefer] placing her in a situation where she would fail. This is a recurring theme throughout the book. Ned, Vyserys, and Arya all fail in situations that might not trouble someone with a different personality.
I agree that Ned's betrothal of Sansa is more than a little twisted and that Lady's death could also be symbolic of that.

Favourite character? One of them for me would have to be Stannis. He is self-righteous and inflexible. He comes off as an arrogant, uptight jerk. And, later on in the series, he is in danger of becoming a puppet.
But, if you think about it, he is the only pretender to the throne to act like a King and put his forces where the danger is, despite suffering some colossal reversals of fortune. Hope things work out well for Stannis, but I'm not counting on it.

As for betrothing her to Joffrey, remember several things: 1) Ned was against it at first 2) Joffrey is a Baratheon, not a Lannister (sort of). Point being, he's Ned's best friend's son, not simply "a good match," though from *her* perspective, he seems like the best match ever (until she actually gets to know him).
John,
Point 2 is a major mitigation, isn't it? From his point of view, it might be justified, but not from mine.
You've addressed Ned and Arya's complicity or lack thereof, but can you exculpate Sansa?
Point 2 is a major mitigation, isn't it? From his point of view, it might be justified, but not from mine.
You've addressed Ned and Arya's complicity or lack thereof, but can you exculpate Sansa?

And I really think Sansa thought her actions were right...she thought she could stay betrothed to Joffrey and save her father.
She was naive about the political matters because she was a little girl who had been groomed to be a little lady, and the only person to talk to her when the shit hit the fan was Cersei who was 'nice' to her, and Sansa wanted to please her.
Hehe...here I am defending her character when early on in this thread I said she was my least favorite. I guess I feel like I understand her character....but I didn't enjoy reading the chapters from her POV.


Kristen, it seems pretty clear in the text that she's talking about Lady. Clegane and his men don't come back with the boy's body until *after* Ned kills Lady, so Cersei couldn't have been saying they had him.
Incidentally, I absolutely agree that she was well-written. But just because she's believably and I can understand why she does the things she does, and can agree with Kristen that shewas doing what she thought was right, it doesn't mean I have to *like* her. :)
When I was first following these discussions before starting to re-read the book, I too was a bit surprised by the hatred of Catelyn. As I was reading the book again, though, it's easy enough to see why people could dislike her. If nothing else, she's a complete witch to Jon Snow, who most of us absolutely love. She's just not very sympathetic in the early going, and it can be hard to get over an initial dislike of a character.
This is what I was referring to as 2: "Point being, he's Ned's best friend's son"

My least favorite is probably Joffrey. It just seems like his actions are taken with just himself in mind, not the good of the people or the realm.



Most disliked character.... The queen Joffery and little finger. Theres just something warped about all three of them.

I despise Cersei Lannister and Roose Bolton.

For a bit of the time while reading the book, I loathed Sansa, but by the end, I really pitied her. I'm assuming that in the following book she'll have been put through a lot (though I have yet to read it).
Cersei I also despised, like most of the other posters had. What made her so loathesome is her insulting of Sansa (spoken through Joffrey) after all those events in the book.
There are some other characters that are both awesome/terrible, but identifying them would spoil the book....

Characters I hated were Cersei (i see most people are with me on this) and then Catelyn. I really really did not like her. Next Dany, I do enjoy reading her story but part of me hopes she fails.

Some of my least favorites are Cersei Lannister and Joffrey Baratheon. I find myself disliking Ser Mormont more each day too.

The character who I was most surprised to like by the end of the book is Sandor Clegane, the Hound. I started off thinking he was a complete bastard, but in the end he might be the most human character in the book.
I hate Joffrey Baratheon with a fiery passion, and doubt anyone wonders why. Cersei Lannister is a close second, and Viserys Targaryen is a close third. Viserys would rank higher if he wasn't so pathetic. Jaime Lannister is a pretty despicable character as well, but he at least has the excuse of being a complete sociopath.
I don't particularly care about Jon Snow one way or another. I get the feeling that GRRM wrote him as a character I was supposed to like, but it just isn't happening.

Love Jaime and Tyrion, hate Sansa and Cersei in the other books.

Love Jon and Tyrion, and beginning to really like the Hound. I also think Varys is a great character, and want to see him featured more.
I don't understand the Cersei venom. She's more of an understandable mother character to me than Catelyn is. And Sansa is a very interesting character, at least beyond the first book.

Cersei is a great villain- I like a good villain, find archetypal Darth Vader type characters boring.
Viserys I disliked- spoiled brat, reminds me of Draco Malfoy in Harry Potter. Hated Danerys' husband for how he treated her. Also didn't like Cersei & Tyrion's other brother, can't remember his name.
One of the best things about this book is the gritty realism- the romanticized fantasy gets old. I find some the violence hard to read though.

I really like Ned and how hard it it always is for him to do what's right, but he does it anyway and suffers through it.
Even though Robert was drunk and closed his eyes off to the things that were wrong in the world, he was so jolly and funny and perverted. It was awesome. I was so sad when he passed on.
At first Daenerys got on my nerves, but now I love her. Her character development throughout the book was phenomenal. She and Khal Drogo are the cutest couple ever. I love when Khal Drogo "crowned" Viserys, so to speak. Hahaha. I hated Viserys. He was so pathetic and annoying.
And I like Bran. Poor crippled Bran...
But my favorite character is probably Tyrion Lannister. He's so clever and charismatic, and he's always using what he has instead of letting his flaws bring him down. He is seriously badass.
I absolutely HATE Cersei. Martin is really good at creating a villain, because I just detest her.
Also, I don't think any character could get on my nerves more than Lysa Stark and her son Robert. They are the most annoying characters in existence of any novel I've read so far. Martin is seriously good at making SUPER different characters.
Oh, and though Littlefinger always makes me laugh with his unbelievably crude perverted-ness, I hate how immoral and selfish he is. He's always looking out for number one... stupid butthole.

My favourtie characters after finishing the first book is:
1. Jon Snow, I really like his personality and think its more to him than meets the eye
2. Eddard Stark, Really good personality with the will to wanting to protect his loved ones and doing the right things, not out of selfishness but for the good of his people and land. (view spoiler)
3. Arya Stark, She dosnt let people push her around and has a strong will and determination
4. Danerys for her strong will and character. There is just something special about her, and im looking forward to keep reading about her
I really dont like Cersei Lannister, Joffrey and Caitelynns sister
1. Jon Snow, I really like his personality and think its more to him than meets the eye
2. Eddard Stark, Really good personality with the will to wanting to protect his loved ones and doing the right things, not out of selfishness but for the good of his people and land. (view spoiler)
3. Arya Stark, She dosnt let people push her around and has a strong will and determination
4. Danerys for her strong will and character. There is just something special about her, and im looking forward to keep reading about her
I really dont like Cersei Lannister, Joffrey and Caitelynns sister