Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

What is your process when rating a book? What criteria do you use to judge a book? Is it all about substance (re: a good story) or are you critical of style as well? Are there any storylines or plot devices that you find so annoying, repulsive, etc. that the incorporation of those in a book automatically decrease the rating for you?

Discuss.

Technically I am not a wordsmith, good speller or apostrophe placer.
So I rely on more on subjective views: for instance -
Did I want to keep picking the book up ?
Would I recommend it to someone ?
Do I want to re-read it ?
Why did I (if at all) keep flicking back through the pages to previous dialogue and maps. Is it interest in the story, connections, or confusion.
If its part of a series have I added to be tbr pile.

spelling is my weakness (dont type so good either),but I thrill to well placed words and rhythms.
I tend to give a book a good chance to seduce me. Some books take a long time to establish their territory. Because I pick my books so carefully, I will be patient until that AHA moment when finally oriented to the style, pacing, world, issue, theory, territory and character,as applicable...I get it.

Until all these are in place, I reserve my judgement. Even if I dont particularly like it or understand it, I have chosen to be reading it for some good reason AND I have had the occassional experience for example,as with Radix, by A.A.Attanasio. If I would not have been on a bus to San Francisco, I might have given up before page 50, so disgusted was I with the main character. Then I got it, and luckily the book is long, and has provided much food for thought.

Once I have got a grip on a book, I can begin to assess it. At this point, I will either be under the books spell, or I may be ruthless.I may decide I hate it. Then I may quit. Or finish it relucantly and somewhat perfunctually if it is not too sticky.

This conversation is making my realize that I need to bond with at least one character to highly rate a book. If I find that I violently disagree with POV or I cant bear the way that the mind I am immersed in works, I withdraw my loyalty. If a book is having a huge negative effect on me, I leave it.

But I do not demand that every book I love be equisitely written. Sometimes pedestrian writing is called for, sometimes the story transcends the attempt to convey it.
That said, I love elegant writing,when the flow of it sweeps the reader along so that it is a joy and not a struggle.
Of course some of my favorite books I still struggle with.

The following discussions were moved here from the thread about rating books read in the past.

message 5: by KJ
Jun 08, 2011 04:40am

Interesting question! I've added every book I can remember reading (except ones as a child, unless they were my absolute favorites, etc.) and I generally give all books a 3 - average - unless they really stuck with me. I tend to go back and increase or decrease the ratings, too, as I ponder the books for awhile. For instance, my initial reaction to "Lolita" was a 3, but the more I thought about it, I increased it.

Personally, I wish we had a 10 point scale.
reply | delete | flag *

message 6: by Ice (last edited Jun 08, 2011 05:06am)
Jun 08, 2011 05:04am

or at least ½ 's but then there would have to be 5 more 'button' descriptions - any suggestions.

I personally find 7 point scales tend to be better.
reply | delete | flag *

message 7: by KJ
Jun 08, 2011 05:14am

Well, something more than 5, anyway.
reply | delete | flag *

message 8: by Ice
Jun 08, 2011 05:20am

I agree, however it maybe a substantial re-design unless one was given the option of an alternative scale.
reply | delete | flag *

Ice wrote: "or at least ½ 's but then there would have to be 5 more 'button' descriptions - any suggestions.

I personally find 7 point scales tend to be better."

i vote for 7 or 9
reply | delete | flag *

message 12: by Magdelanye
Jun 08, 2011 08:08am

Magdelanye wrote: "Ice wrote: "or at least ½ 's but then there would have to be 5 more 'button' descriptions - any suggestions.

I personally find 7 point scales tend to be better."

i vote for 7 or 9" especially when rating books from memory because I think we all agree that experience filters our recollections.

The more stars, the greater the precision....yes, and thats why we could use more stars.
There are certain books that tower over others in our experience. These are the books that get the highest rating. If the span between amazing and mediocre is only 1 digit, then books get bumped to fit the category.
And while Enid Blyton rocked my world, and I love her for that, objectively I realize she is not at the top of the tower
reply | delete | flag *

message 16: by Ice (last edited Jun 09, 2011 02:17am)
Jun 09, 2011 12:48am

I take Ian's point about complexity, 5 stars probably allows an 'at a glance' feel.

For books I am uncertain of, after looking at Friends reviews, or asking them if there is just a rating, I look at a low, medium and high rating to give me some 'secondary evidence'.

The review itself is often more important, and one can always write x out of 10.

Perhaps the stars are just a signpost on the journey and there is no need for 'star' inflation.

It beats me that something as simple as adding a couple of stars to make our rating more meaningful, seems so complex or maybe just trivial and not worth changing. Of course, as Ice has pointed out, the stars are just signposts, but why not, with little more effort, have a sign that posts a more accurate assessment. I think having even 2 more star options would greatly alleviate most of their ambiguity.

perhaps it would help to visualize the ratings as shelves.
The top shelf, 7 stars is for books that are more than just favoritess, they are our holy books, the ones that have meant the most most to us, lifesavers and awe inspirers. Absolute masterpieces.

Undermeath this would be books we love & adore for whatever reason, magnificent reads, thought provoking and easily recommended;not absolute mastero
pieces but important and wonderful for 6 stars.

The 3rd shelf would be 5 star books we liked very much, good solid reads but not of steller magnitude, perhaps flawed, or maybe cumbersome or not so well written, perhaps not so useful or relevant to our lives. Perhaps books that were not easily embraced or understood and took much effort and gave not much pleasure but some necessary insight or knowlege.

The middle shelf ( 4 stars) remains for books we could consider a bit thin, perhaps our guilty reads, porn of some sort maybe, cheap thrillers, or maybe just simplistic but inspiring (wedgi books?) the ones we wont go so far as to lie about but we dont really understand why/how we could have come to read it in the first place. But we liked it anyway.

Underneath this would be the meh shelf (3 stars) those instantly forgetable, possibly well written but ultimately a waste of time or worse, really disappointing.

under this, the bleh shelf (2 stars), for those books that we didnt really like or dont even have enough substance to hate, or the books that are mostly hated but that had some good or useful bits.

The bottom shelf (1 star) is for the books that were so poorly written or so full of error or negativity that they disgust and repel and are a threat to mental health. The book you never want to think of again and maybe discarded before it contaminated your mind further.

Does this make sense?
reply | delete | flag *

message 19: by Magdelanye (last edited Jun 11, 2011 02:01am)
Jun 09, 2011 10:53pm

maybe this would be more succinct:
7 stars: brilliant
6 : wonderful
5 : very good
4 : okay/ allright
3 : meh
2 : bleh
1 : yuck

I have gone ahead and built some shelves that Im hoping we will all fill with our recommendations.
reply | delete | flag *

message 20: by Kinkajou
Jun 10, 2011 02:35am

Seven stars does seem to allow for more specificity (ooh, big word for 5:30 am - the Coke Zero is working ;)). 1 star sounds like it equals my "wretched waste of paper" shelf :)
reply | delete | flag *

message 21: by Magdelanye
Jun 10, 2011 10:15am

I thought of calling it that but yuck was snappier and you got it right away
reply | delete | flag *

message 22: by Kinkajou
Jun 10, 2011 10:38am

Magdelanye wrote: "I thought of calling it that but yuck was snappier and you got it right away"

Indeed it is snappier. Alas I'm much too windy for anything snappy. No one has ever "accused" me of being snappy :D
reply | delete | flag *

message 23: by Ann
Jun 10, 2011 11:52am

I find myself wanting to give a lot of either 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 stars. 2 1/2 means I kind of liked it, but not enough to recommend the book. 3 1/2 means I liked it but not quite enough for 4 stars (which means I liked it a LOT). I don't give many 5-stars. I'm not sure how I'd do with a 7-star system. Maybe I'd still try to fit things "in-between"!
reply | delete | flag *

message 24: by Magdelanye
Jun 10, 2011 01:21pm

thats why Ive been fooling around with a 7 stars rating system, gives us 2 more options ...
kind of liked it according to above system, you have a choice between, it was allright and meh, which is kind of, instantly forgetable,

And the book that you liked not quite enough to love, can be a number 5

does that work for you?
reply | delete | flag *

message 25: by Her Royal Orangeness, Ze Grande Salami
Jun 12, 2011 07:31am

The five star system works fine for me. Excellent, very good, good, fair, and poor. The distinction between "meh, bleh, and yuck" is, to me, unclear. I would, however, like 1/2 stars. There are many books that are directly between two categories - not quite good but better than just okay, for example.
reply | edit | delete | flag *

message 26: by KJ
Jun 12, 2011 07:52am

Hmmm. Fair and poor. 1 star is I couldn't even be bothered to finish it. 2 star - I finished it, but wish I could have that hour back. A whole lot of books get lumped into the 3 to 4 star category. A five star means I'm going out and actually buying it (or putting it on my list and getting it from someone on goodreads!); I will put it on my shelf to re-read when I get old and my memory goes and I can't remember if I've read it or not. :-)
reply | delete | flag *

message 27: by Her Royal Orangeness, Ze Grande Salami
Jun 12, 2011 08:40am

This thread certainly illustrates why it's impossible to look at a number by a book title and gauge whether it's a good read!

To explain my rating system more fully:

5 Stars (Excellent) = Favorites. Books that I will read over and over and never forget. Books that I would want with me on a deserted island.

4 Stars (Very Good) = An exceptional book that captivated me that I will definitely consider re-reading in the future.

3 Stars (Good) = A book that was an enjoyable read and worth recommending to others.

2 Stars (Fair) = A tolerable but utterly forgettable book.

1 Star (Poor) = A book so abominable I wish I'd never even heard of it.

Most of the books I've read are in the 2 or 3 Star category.
reply | edit | delete | flag *

message 28: by Ann
Jun 13, 2011 08:53am

I, too wish we could give half stars. I feel stuck with the 5-star system, however, since that's what Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ uses.
reply | delete | flag *

message 29: by Magdelanye (last edited Jun 13, 2011 08:36pm)
Jun 13, 2011 08:21pm

Aha but there are heaps of people that are feeling the same way, because just a little more precision will give a more accurate reflection of our true opinion. Others on the GR feedback site have mentioned half stars. GR says it welcomes suggestions and is still experimenting.

RO, meh is your tolerable, bleh has some redeeming value but flawed or harsh.yuck is yuck.

KJ I guess Im there, getting old, for here I am rereading a book because alto I do remember reading it, and the plot is familiar, I dont remember my final assessment.
reply | delete | flag *

message 30: by Magdelanye (last edited Jun 16, 2011 10:14pm)
Jun 16, 2011 10:03pm

It was Orianas' review of A History of Tractors.., where I first came across meh,to indicate, in HROs words "a tolerable but utterly forgetable book." (I don't agree by the way with the assessment) Since then I have noticed it used in that slightly dismissive way, and I think its apt.

It could be that that the characters lack interest or that there seemed to be no point, or any other reason that prevents the reader from appreciating its message........... Somehow, for me, a well written book in this catagory is the most disappointing of all.

Bleh is not rated poorly because of indifference or poor quality. There is something we really don't like
reply | delete | flag *

message 31: by Ellie
Jun 17, 2011 03:35am

The 5 star system actually works for me pretty well.
5 stars: I so loved this book, desert island time
4 stars: Really liked it, might reread
3 stars: It was a good book
2 stars: I finished it?
1 star: I'm sure I didn't; actively disliked with cause

1/2 stars would increase precision but it only really matters to me occasionally & then I can put the shading in the review.

I actually have very few 2 star books (and fewer one star books) because if I dislike a book, or if it seems like a waste of time, I don't usually finish it. If it seems important to note, I will sometimes give an unfinished book a rating (if I think it's really, as in the autism anti-vaccine book) carrying a dangerous message but usually not.

Why most my books are rated 4 stars: the older I get, the more I only stay with the books I think are 4 stars.

The older I get, the harder it is to find those.
reply | delete | flag *

message 32: by Magdelanye (last edited Jun 18, 2011 02:09am)
Jun 18, 2011 02:08am

Ellie wrote: "The 5 star system actually works for me pretty well.
5 stars: I so loved this book, desert island time
4 stars: Really liked it, might reread
3 stars: It was a good book
2 stars: I finished it?
1 ..."
Whatever works for you, works for you.
Are we tinkering with something that ain't broke?
Your definitions are nice and clear, and maybe those of us who wish for a greater range in options for the sake of precision, are just being finiky.

It seems to me that if you just finished Master and Marg....reading the petal book, you are on a roll.

I am continually amazed and gratified at all the great books still waiting to be read.

Magdelanye wrote: "Somehow I think it is harder to read something about which we have preconceptions that need to be shed before we can enter into a genuine relationship with a book."

I often avoid the books that receive a lot of "hype" because I so much fear that it cannot possibly be as good as I've been led to expect. On the other hand, it can be a bit lonely to read a book that totally blows you away...and you know that pretty much no one else on the planet has even heard of it. :)
reply | edit | delete | flag *

message 38: by Magdelanye
Jun 21, 2011 03:53am

Her Royal Orangeness wrote:

I often I often avoid the books that receive a lot of "hype" because I so much fear that it cannot possibly be as good as I've been led to expect. On the other hand, it can be a bit lonely to read a book that totally blows you away...and you know that pretty much no one else on the planet has even heard of it. :)
..."

You nailed it agin RO.
Thats probably why a lot of us are atrracted to GR, for this level of sharing.

You nailed it agin RO.
Thats probably why a lot of us are atrracted to GR, for this level of sharing.

I was very wary about joining GR for lots of reasons but mostly because I didn't think there'd be people who liked the "odd" books I liked. Boy was I wrong. There doesn't have to be a ton of people who enjoy the books I do, it's just good to be in contact with others who do and to hear their thoughts on these books. Instead of always feeling like I'm reading in a vacuum. And good to get interesting recommendations about new authors to try.

I am so happy! I loved Soulless and have also become addicted to parasols and steampunk shoes (well, that was no great surprise!). There are some fun clothing web sites for steampunk clothes.

And I guess my general weirdness could be summed up by the fact that I'm a James Joyce/steampunk kind of girl.
What can you do?

OMG-I want them, I want them, I want them! So beautiful. I would be a new person-full of confidence and brimming with ideas and self-esteem.

Or at least I would like to look at my feet in mirrors.

Ladies you do know that we have a steampunk shlf waitng to be filled with your recommendations.
I love it too, mostly.
And even I am impressed with those boots.

If I were 20 years younger, and 50 pounds lighter, and much richer, I would totally go All Steampunk for fashion! :)

Ellie, how do you define Steampunk as a genre? I'm often muddled about how a book qualifies for that classification.

Since you are almost undoubtedly my age or younger (58) I say, if you want Steampunk-go for it (not that I do, except in my imagination).

I define Steampunk as fun, machinery as beautiful, Victorian fantasy married to the age of industrialization (both of which are dead anyway, so it's all fantasy). It's less dystopian than most science fiction and has a much needed in this world (I think) sense of fun. I believe things are much too serious not too laugh.

Look at all the Steampunk fashion sites-especially jewelry, corsets, & shoes to see my sense of Steampunk. Watch Robert Downey Jr.'s Sherlock Holmes.

But I'm definitely no authority!

So, now that we have all calmed down somewhat, can we answer HROs question>>>how do you define Steampunk as a genre? I'm often muddled about how a book qualifies for that classification.

kinda gothic, with an insouciant existential edge, would you agree?

oops, just reread comments.Somehow I missed #18/ El,I also love the playfulness of the genre. Do you think that the love of machinary is not a parody?

Today, paying a brief visit to a used bookstore |) Soulless jumped out at me and I bought it.

I dont know when I will read it but it seems likely it will be soon.

Ellie, my mom was the Queen of Dysfunctional Mothers and surely you've noticed that I tend to applaud rather than fear 'otherness' and love tales by and about.
my issue is that I began to hate Marilyn and james a mm d

smart fone shortcircuted
I was furious with them for committing Lydia and my heart broke for all 3 of the kids....ng sold out somewhere along the line I thought

it occurs to me that even adding a + or - would enhance the accuracy of the ratings

this seems as good place as any (I considered whine and cheese) to address Ellie outside the main thread because Ellie has just finished Yellowface and I need to vent about it, as in, Spoiler Alert.
You were quite reticent about it Ellie and I see why. Halfway through and my dislike of the narrator has skyrocketed to the point that my empathy is drained completely. Even Kuang's compelling writing can't get me like in Babel.
Of course the situation in Israel has affected my focus and concentration