I actually said “holy shit� as I turned the second page. That’s how beautifully balletically bizarre Steranko’s compositions are.
I don’t think I’ve eI actually said “holy shit� as I turned the second page. That’s how beautifully balletically bizarre Steranko’s compositions are.
I don’t think I’ve ever read anything by Steranko tho not for lack of enthusiastic recs I’ve absorbed over the years.
This means I’m gonna have to dive deep into this man’s psyche real soon. ...more
Another rec from Douglas Wolk’s All The Marvels, and this one goes deep off the deep end. For this to be one of the few crossovers with typical MarvelAnother rec from Douglas Wolk’s All The Marvels, and this one goes deep off the deep end. For this to be one of the few crossovers with typical Marvel characters - in such an atypical fashion - is pretty fascinating.
One you have to read, after getting the feel for MOKF from the 38-39 I just read too. Two-parter with 59 & 60....more
Another rec from Douglas Wolk’s All The Marvels, and this one goes deep off the deep end. For this to be one of the few crossovers with typical MarvelAnother rec from Douglas Wolk’s All The Marvels, and this one goes deep off the deep end. For this to be one of the few crossovers with typical Marvel characters - in such an atypical fashion - is pretty fascinating.
One you have to read, after getting the feel for MOKF from the 38-39 I just read too. Two-parter with 59 & 60....more
Nice money shot in the final issue - Spidey rocks man. (No spoilers - go enjoy it for yourself)
Great story - tense, how will Spidey get out of this meNice money shot in the final issue - Spidey rocks man. (No spoilers - go enjoy it for yourself)
Great story - tense, how will Spidey get out of this mess? And while a bit wordy, Zdarsky has a handle on the characters so I’m never not believing they’re solidly in-canon. (Except for JJJ trusting Spidey/Parker - how long can that possibly last?)
Plus I enjoy the occasional Spidey joke. Not like “Deadpool volume� of dumb jokes, but ironic humour borne of pain and conflict. The type I have been bred, trained, impressed to find most natural. (Yes, I am an advanced lifeform, ready to ascend the the hallowed halls of ancient rotes of laughter known as “dad jokes�. Or something.)
Art is great. Nice action-oriented panelling and camera work....more
This might actually be my first dose of Skottie Young. I've heard about this dude for hears (years even!), and admired his covers ever since the firstThis might actually be my first dose of Skottie Young. I've heard about this dude for hears (years even!), and admired his covers ever since the first one I saw. He is Shallow Comics Readers approved - his stuff looks fun, no one has exposed him as a pedophile, rapist or abuser. Those are pretty much the SCR qualifiers. (Anne, Jeff , Gavin - what am I missing here?)
The jokes, they are fast and loose - sometimes groan-worthy: [image] [image] [image] [image]
Sometimes hilarious: [image] [Why have I never heard that nickname before? THIS MUST BE CANON NOW]
Sometimes uncomfortable: [image]
Sometimes bitingly uncomfortable: [image] [image] [image] [I'm pretty sure Rob Liefeld is crying into his last moneybag]
But mostly just some harmless fun. Thanks Skottie!...more
According to most of my GR friends this is abysmal. How bad could it possibly be?
It certainly has an arresting opener: [image] [image] [yes, that's an X According to most of my GR friends this is abysmal. How bad could it possibly be?
It certainly has an arresting opener: [image] [image] [yes, that's an X in blood]
And I actually smiled at this: [image]
And this: [image]
I even laughed a little at this: [image] [What gives, an actual parody of old-school x-men?]
Hell, I think the *art* is also a parody of Quitely's style, but it's hard to be sure when it could be just as easily explained by poor talent. You be the judge - is this by accident or by design? (Note: that's supposed to be Magneto): [image]
Fine story, no major surprises to anyone who's read enough of the dramas of X-men over the years. But *definitely* a parody (intentional or otherwise). Three stars for parody!...more
Evocative story, if a little jumbled. Gail Simone really immersed me in with these absolute weirdos, and Jon Davis-Hunt commits to making sure you knoEvocative story, if a little jumbled. Gail Simone really immersed me in with these absolute weirdos, and Jon Davis-Hunt commits to making sure you know exactly what these weirdos are up to between word balloons.
This is dead-on-the-nose “What if Scientology wasn’t garbage sci-fi wrapped around the most blatant scam, but was all real?� I applaud the creators giving it a go, and it takes no chances going down that gopher hole of broken ankles.
If it wasn’t for trying to follow too many characters and timeframes I’d consider this debut a masterpiece of nuanced characters in a splatstick universe.
Spooktober Buddy read with the Shallows [image]...more
I just finished reading volume 3 of this extremely compelling series, and I cannot _believe_ what Soule has cooked up this time for t� What. The. FUCK.
I just finished reading volume 3 of this extremely compelling series, and I cannot _believe_ what Soule has cooked up this time for twists.
If you've been reading the previous books like I have, you are getting used to Soule crafting an Olympic-level chess match between all the players of the various layers of this story. Political factions and opponents extremely well-matched (like the First Lady playing the Impeachment-leading congressman like a fiddle, or the ex-President anticipating and flanking every move the current President makes on the world stage).
Well, get ready to take it up to 11.
The escalation of world tensions goes off the hook - world war and all its rampant apocalyptic outcomes, crazy world leader-level actions inevitable or surprising...shit, reading this review must sound like I've not got hold of my faculties, because I don't want to give away any of the amazing page turns here, but I can't help by try to allude to some of the reasons why YOU HAVE TO READ THIS BOOK.
I love the batshit and frustrating stuff we get from the spacefarers and their alien friends too. Well, "enablers" or "keepers" more like, but we're never sure if they're benevolent of malificient (is that a word now? Doesn't matter, it's more interesting than using the predictable "malicious" here). Soule structures this book with escalating piano-wire tension, lots of short bursts of cycling storylines to keep us engaged and wanting to get back to what-the-fuck-is-going-on-now, and terribly interesting plot.
I want to invent a time machine and fly forward six months so I can get my hands on the next volume NOW. (And maybe some winning lotto numbers so I can afford to buy crates of this series and give it away to all my friends.)
Just one question for the artist: are you suggesting some of the aliens are into body modification?
[image]
No criticism here - the artwork (pencils and colours) is awesome....more
Alright Slott, don't let me down here and hand off your story scribbles to Christos "never turn down an opportunity to use a character's name in dialoAlright Slott, don't let me down here and hand off your story scribbles to Christos "never turn down an opportunity to use a character's name in dialogue to make sure no reader is ever confused, you fucking pedant" Gage to flesh out into paint-by-numbers script.
Slott certainly has his humour-sense tingling in this book:
[image]
[image]
[image]
And I enjoyed the Silk sub-plot immensely. (Hot slinky spider-type? Yes please)
[image]
[image]
So *that's* how they're tying Morlun into this trans-dimensional foolishness - retconning him a whole family of Spider-hunters (who keep some pretty interesting other Spider-hunters as pets).
There's something very nostalgic about bringing all these various cast-offs, alterna-verse and clones/descendants/experiments of Spider-Man together all at once - and even though I haven't read probably half of the books from which they sprung, it's a warm, welcome feeling to see so many of them gathered, recognizing each other and working together. It's like a high-school reunion without half of the drag of being called dork all over again. (Except when my fellow Shallow Comics Readers get a load of my weepy review here.)
When the Japanese spiders came on the scene I felt a little thrill of something I don't truly understand and have rarely watched: all the Japanese manga and giant robot cartoons and books, where giant monsters are battled down to submission with great politeness and lots of loud screams of withheld joy. Why did I care? Because Dan Slott cared, and when he's bringing something laden with meaning to this party, you sit up and take notice, give thanks and lend your respect to the proceedings.
This is a great story and I believe it that Dan Slott had this cooking for years. It was a completely fun romp through a ridiculous number of Spider-Man spin-offs, cast-offs and alternate versions. (Who knew there was a Punk Rock Spidey, an Iron Fist Spidey or even a Deadpool Spidey? OK, everyone but me probably knew about that last one.)
I had so much fun with this book that it was a *pleasure* chasing all the crossovers and spin-off miniseries. (When was the last time you could say *that* about a modern-day comics event?) Go see my other reviews if you don't believe me. I'll wait.
Slott, next time you marinate one of these ideas for a couple of years, call me. You're a gem.
[Message to self: find out how to hack GoodReads so I can rate this sucker > 5 stars]
Spoiler notes to self: (view spoiler)[Kaine dies (but then again, some fist punched through his bloated giant spider corpse). Spider-Man UK loses his whole world (of Captain Britain Corps), and joins Spider-Girl (Anya Corazon) to become Warriors of the Great Web. Most everyone including Spider-Gwen and Uncle Ben go to their respective times and/or Earths. One of the villains (exiled Karn of the Inheritors) takes over as the Weaver to rebuild the Great Web. Oh, and Superior Spider-Man's damage to the Great Web temporarily weakens everyone's spider sense. Spidey-616 lost some life force. And Julia Carpenter (new Madame Web) arose from her coma. (hide spoiler)]...more
Mutant Rapture eh? Kang's kids getting one over on the persecuted minority, or truly devoted to preserving their ancestors?
That's a helluva starting pMutant Rapture eh? Kang's kids getting one over on the persecuted minority, or truly devoted to preserving their ancestors?
That's a helluva starting place for this story.
This is the book where the story picks up the same balls-to-the-wall energy as Remender had in Uncanny X-Force - serious consequences, no one is right, lots of wrong moves made...and crazypants are everywhere. I mean, Sentry isn't even the nuttiest, but he's certainly the most demonstrative:
[image]
I wondered early on whether Remender was just fucking around with big toys, killing a Celestial, enchanting a giant axe, bringing out the dead. It appears instead he was setting up quite the little jenga tower, helping himself to a little Hickman-level plot-by-way-of-Escher: lots of pieces that make a helluva lot more sense once you see it all together.
Zack's review is bang-on - there's a World Poker Championship of masterminds thing going on here. And Anne's right as well - lots of melodramatic navel gazing at not-the-time-for-it interpersonal stress and bickering going on. But that's not the things that make my head go tilt
BUT, there's something a little fishy with how he cranks it up to 11. Like, I'm still here, I'm hearing about all these "earths end" comics - 616 and Ultimate universes colliding - and I know they're printing more comics with the characters who just died - so why the big-ass destructo rampage? Why let Destro take out *all* the Joes? Why does Scaramanga get the win?
Are we gonna find out all this played out in a heretofore-unknown parallel earth, one of Reed's pocket-universe thingies - or one of the parallels that showed up already in Hickman's "wiping his ass with everything" FF-Avengers storyline?...more
Check out the main book's review for the summary, here for the colour commentary.
I had so much fun with the main book that it was a *pleasure* chasingCheck out the main book's review for the summary, here for the colour commentary.
I had so much fun with the main book that it was a *pleasure* chasing all the crossovers and spin-off miniseries. Even the stuff that Marvel pasted together into this, the obligatory grab-bag of issues and stories (i.e. the stuff that no reader in their right mind would buy on its own). (When was the last time you could say *this* about a modern-day comics event? Not I.)
Every big and small side-story felt like it *added* to the family reunion of all the red-and-(colour)-garbed heroes. It's possible this only works if you're a big Spidey fan to begin with, but if you are and have already read the Superior Spider-Man event, then this is definitely for you.
Spider-Verse team-up? Man, this has to be the first time that one-off stories attached to an event actually belong, and don't just feel like a cash-grab. (Still a cash-grab, but not the kind that usually accompanies a bloated Event.) These tales add weight to the numbers of Spider-men getting killed off, and makes the main storyline a little more tense because as quickly as these C-listers are getting chomped, that makes it even easier to take out the B-listers we actually give half a shit about. (And keep the other half a shit on hand in case we need to smear ourselves to keep the villains from smelling us...or is that the latest "twist" in Volume 33 of The Walking Dead?
[image]
Spider-verse super-short stories. Again, this works as a recruiting reel - getting the band back together for the first time and all that.
I'm in love with Steampunk Lady Spider. Kick ass, genre-bending, female empowerment (as it should be).
Scarlet Spiders? Solid writing here. A collection of clones of Peter Parker have their own "suicide squad" quality to them, being infinitely more expendable than the "real" Parkers. And yet Costa doesn't play it like that - that's just the subtext in reading in, on top of the more taut stealth-then-action play. The biggest problem I have with the Scarlet Spiders story is with the art - specifically, the bodily proportions. The legs are all spindles and blobs, like this dude doesn't get natural shapes - and then he puts a couple of DD's on Ultimate Black Widow, along with the manliest, squarest butt I've yet seen on a woman. What gives? Are we expected to believe that as a member of Ultimate Shield, Ultimate Jess has the time *or* the inclination to go get a boob job to make her lithe body look like she walked out of a Portland peeler joint?
[image]
Any complaints I have are picking the tiniest, Micro-versiest nits for an event of this calibre. There's no *way* we should've had this much fun, with something that felt this well-orchestrated (or loosened off where it needed to be, so that the side stories had just enough room to breathe), from the House of M. I am as much a fanboi of Marvel as anyone but their events in recent years have felt increasingly cold, calculated, stuffy and yet thin. It's a sad thing to have to admit just how much better this felt, and perhaps it's just simply a reflection of how many years Dan Slott ruminated on this story. (Reminds me of the way that John Carpenter's The Thing .)
Can we please have this Dan Slott stay on with Spidey for another five years? That would be grand. I have increasingly enjoyed his Spidey-tales, as he's gotten increasingly deep into this branch of the Marvel universe, and I would feel very sad if this much fun in comics was suddenly snuffed out.
Ugh, Malekith. Uninspired villain, resurrected from some ancient line of Thor stories after he got a starring role in the second Thor movie. As if thaUgh, Malekith. Uninspired villain, resurrected from some ancient line of Thor stories after he got a starring role in the second Thor movie. As if that suddenly makes him cool.
At least we got a neat little interlude story, a palate cleanser (are they a Proctor & Gamble product? They should make them, in disposable form - maybe even something you could plug into the wall and make it always smell of clean palate in your home). I'm sure after murdering a few thousand gods, even Jason Aaron - king of depressing stories - was in need of a little kitten time.
Ron Garney makes some pretty pretty pictures. Especially his map of the Nine Realms. But also his sinister Malekith, the great beasts of war and the fantasy scenery. (Like a toned-down Frazetta - only with minimal boobage.)
Then all of a sudden Aaron and Garney unleash the League of Realms on this story, and it becomes Super Fun Times in the Nine Realms. When Aaron decides to bring his sense of humour to the party, I always enjoy his stories. (Well, I always enjoy his stories anyway, but just a little more when they're this fun.)
[image]
[image]
Not to mention Aaron brings some kick-ass women to the fight. Yeah. *changes undies preventatively*
God DAMN it seems like Aaron has fun writing this kind of adventure. Hell, even his *letters* column responses are silly. How does someone get a job like this?
I would love to have as much fun as this looks in my job. Instead I push paper and apply paper cuts to political battles. Some days it's a blast - I get to laugh at the absurdity and sometimes watch someone actually take my advice despite their better judgment. The best days are ones that end with a beer among workmates or I get to go home without raising my voice and being a bastard to someone. The worst days do *not* include getting vomit on you (so I've got that much on you, dripping Thor)....more
This book just pours on the weird like brandy on a trailer-park wedding cake.
This book just doesn't feel like any normal superhero tale.
This book jusThis book just pours on the weird like brandy on a trailer-park wedding cake.
This book just doesn't feel like any normal superhero tale.
This book just makes me wonder what kind of mind-focusing supplements Rick Remender is taking.
There's a lot of carry-over from Remender's Uncanny X-Force run, and that's pretty awesome - it's fun and rewarding to see previous storylines actually revisited after they're completed - and used as linchpins to the current story. So often they're just obliquely referenced - like an inside joke that few of us can really follow. Remender respects his readers enough to keep using great turning points as emotional fertilizer.
However, he's also doing something that I don't truly appreciate - spending a lot of time with the villains, who happen not to like each other, letting them monologue about their motives (as nuanced and not terribly easy to follow as they are, at least for this softhead).
What was it Kang really wanted to achieve by screwing with Archangel's kids and turning them loose on present Earth?
No matter, the ride's the thing, and Remender and Acuña create a shitbird-crazy doozy. Super-silly sci-fi terminology just oozes ("tachyon dams" and "hibernation sarcophagi" among many), cracking dialogue, painted and expansive scenery, whacky creatures and ships. Let me emphasize again: DIALOGUE:
[image]
And here with this collection of oddballs, Remender gets them too. They feel inhabited, *consistent* with their experiences and relationships. It's like they're being fleshed out by talented actors, which is saying a lot in a big team book like this.
This book builds to quite the climax and it doesn't stop here. Like X-Force, this keeps climbing, like I'm told Breaking Bad just kept going and unearthing more insane with each step. ...more
Here's my abbreviated commentary from 2003, 15+ years after first reading this book: "I'm going to stick with my five-star rating for now, but I happeHere's my abbreviated commentary from 2003, 15+ years after first reading this book: "I'm going to stick with my five-star rating for now, but I happened upon this article on Frank Miller and I can't help but agree with everything he says: "
Recently (2016) discussions of Miller's contributions via Sin City resulted in this question to me:
"But since it clearly seems you're not much of a Miller fan � apparently even less than I am � I would be curious to know if you still stand behind your 5-star rating of The Dark Knight Returns . And if so, why? Was it really *that* much better than this?"
And my response meandered thusly:
I don't exactly know what to do with that 5-star rating on DKR. My original review (and early-teenage lasting impressions) are like a vestigial tail of my early comics reading life. Do I go back and revise my ratings for similarly-aging reviews? Do I risk alienating yet another remaining contingent of comics folks I like that aren't on board with conflating "artist and art", or who rate comics based on how they'd respond to them now, vs how they originally liked them?
I still very much know I'm *affected* by DKR - it left an indelible impression - but I find it exhausting and sometimes uncomfortable to read, for reasons I'd have a hard time articulating without sounding like some namby-pamby SJW-wannabe. It's exhausting constantly defending my opinions that distasteful people's art is just hard for me to read, and when folks like Sam attack me and try to force me to admit I'm just a prat in adult's clothing, I feel like giving up because there's no way to convince someone who *wants* to believe I'm an ass (and attacking one of their precious beloved treasures) that my opinion is just as valid as theirs, *and* doesn't threaten their right to have their own different opinion.
[When further pressed, I came up with this:]
I have no good answer to leaving the 5-star on DKR - the unemotional side of me says it would only rate 2-3 stars according to my current standards of comics I look forward to reading - somewhat like the "Going Out The Door" test that Sims and Wilson apply to comics in their War Rocket Ajax podcast. And the "tired of being lambasted for shitting on the Gods of classic comics" side of me just wants to not draw attention to myself without a long drawn-out and probably hard-to-justify rationale.
Sin City, Vol. 1 by Frank Miller Sin City, Vol. 1: The Hard Goodbye (Sin City, #1) by Frank Miller 1776702 Mike Lonergan's review Sep 20, 2016 · edit it was ok bookshelves: re-read, creator-owned, unintentionally-hilarious, more-miserable-than-i-forgot-it-was Read from September 10 to 17, 2016
Thematic BuddyRead with that gang we shouldn’t even be admitting to belonging to (but somehow proudly emblazon it wherever we go), the Shallow Comic Readers.
Criteria: An embarrassing amount of jugs on display
Yes, Miller had a real talent for drawing...
[Composition]
[it's almost balletic]
...even if he spent a remarkable amount of time focusing on the female nipple...
[I mean, seriously Frank. Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]
And no, I can't approve of the throwback-to-unapologetic-misogyny times.
For the most part this is less "great noir homage" (cf. Brubaker/Phillips) and more "cliche-ridden tripe" - he executes the basic maneuvers but lacks any finesse:
Given that Miller fridges a woman in Act One, bathes women in the Male Gaze and zealously populates the 'world' with distasteful caricatures of 'independent' women, it's hard to believe Miller sees women as a species as equal to men, or ever would put in the effort to portray them as such.
(Note: there's only one type of woman who's worth respect, the nurse:)
[spoiler: Miller's mother was a nurse]
I ask this question every once in a while, 'cause I'm genuinely curious: if a writer consistently and deeply takes on a slur/bigotry-ridden tone in their writing, is that just an ironic distance thing, or do they actually enjoy embodying and proliferating this kind of prejudice and hatred? Every writer has a blank canvas upon which to spatter their imagination - if they continue to choose a specific subject matter time after time, is that choice, compulsion or just random chance?
I ask the same thing of Garth Ennis, who 'liberally' garnishes his hilarious writing with homophobic slurs. It makes me pause when I keep coming across this kind of streak (and with Ennis, it's a lifelong thing). In his case, he's a good enough writer (see some of his less-exaggerated over the top works to get my meaning) that it makes me wonder whether he's being ironic/holding up a mirror to society, or if he's just a bigot and enjoys expressing it. Occam's Razor or artistic commentary?
Looking at the twisted wreck of a man that Miller became in later life (the later books like All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder, Vol. 1 & Holy Terror, his attitudes towards Occupy Wall Street), and comparing it to the dark/fascist hints in his earlier works, it's hard for me not believe that the later man was always in Miller and just was amplified after 9/11 - set free to fully embrace his angry/fearful/under-empathetic personality.
IIRC, in later Sin City books, the best a woman can be is the gang of murderous prostitutes.
Marv on the other hand is Miller's libertarian ideal: the ubermensch, fighting against the forces of order and oppression, overcoming them all with the super-strength and iron resolve of a Man who knows he's right when all others say he's wrong.
Marv looks like just a twisted, flat copy of Batman - the Batman Miller wanted to write, the Batman he's finally fully realized years later in Holy Terror:
[Put a pointy cowl on the guy and give him a giant penny]
Are there people in the world like Marv? Or Goldie? Or the dirty cops, or prostitutes, or Angry unsanctioned racist not-batman? Of course. Welcome to a planet of 7 billion. I guess that makes Miller an historian, a sociologist, a cartographer of the disgusting wasteland of humanity.
Very egalitarian and progressive of you Professor Miller.
Is Miller notable in comics history? Of course. He's taken steps that dragged comics out of the technicolor 70's and into the dark 80's. We gained an art form that took on adult levels of anger, violence and sad disappointment.
Does he deserve a place on the current shelf of "best comics creators"? That's for each of us to decide. Not hard to see where I stand on the matter, but I'd be an ass to assume mine is the only opinion that matters.
At least the climactic confrontations were fun.
Four stars for some generally great art, minus two stars for a sad little tale from a sad little shell of a man, aspiring to become the more powerful, brave, righteous, merciless man that he drew. 13 likes ·
Post a comment »COMMENTS (SHOWING 1-16 OF 16) (1 NEW) dateDown arrow newest » message 1: by Jeff - added it Sep 20, 2016 12:09PM Jeff Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]
This is why the nudie pen is timeless...
reply | delete | flag * message 2: by Mike - rated it 2 stars Sep 20, 2016 12:38PM Mike LonerganJeff wrote: "Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]
This is why the nudie pen is timeless..."
Hasn't it worn out or broken by now? That death grip isn't easy to keep under control during...moments.
reply | edit | delete | flag * message 3: by Kat Stark Sep 20, 2016 01:00PM Kat Stark Am I the only one that feels trippy as balls right now
reply | delete | flag * message 4: by Anne - added it Sep 20, 2016 04:46PM AnneJeff wrote: "Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]
This is why the nudie pen is timeless..."
You stole my line!
reply | delete | flag * message 5: by Jeff - added it Sep 21, 2016 04:48AM Jeff Kat Stark wrote: "Am I the only one that feels trippy as balls right now"
Yes. Yes you are.
reply | delete | flag * message 6: by Jeff - added it Sep 21, 2016 04:48AM Jeff Anne wrote: "Jeff wrote: "Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]
This is why the nudie pen is timeless..."
You stole my line!"
You keep stealing my Pinterest pictures...
reply | delete | flag * message 7: by Kat Stark Sep 21, 2016 05:37AM Kat Stark you have a pinterest?!
reply | delete | flag * message 8: by Jeff - added it Sep 21, 2016 06:10AM Jeff Anne lured me there with promises of Power Girl gifs....
reply | delete | flag * message 9: by Jedhua - rated it 5 stars Sep 22, 2016 01:02PM Jedhua Ouch. Well sorry I recommended this, Mike. By now, I think I've learned enough about your tastes than to make such a mistake a second time. But since it clearly seems you're not much of a Miller fan � apparently even less than I am � I would be curious to know if you still stand behind your 5-star rating of The Dark Knight Returns . And if so, why? Was it really *that* much better than this?
reply | delete | flag * message 10: by Mike - rated it 2 stars Sep 23, 2016 02:06PM Mike LonerganJedhua wrote: "But since it clearly seems you're not much of a Miller fan � apparently even less than I am � I would be curious to know if you still stand behind your 5-star rating of The Dark Knight Returns . And if so, why? Was it really *that* much better than this?"
I don't exactly know what to do with that. My original review (and early-teenage lasting impressions) are like a vestigial tail of my early comics reading life. Do I go back and revise my ratings for similarly-aging reviews? Do I risk alienating yet another remaining contingent of comics folks I like that aren't on board with conflating "artist and art", or who rate comics based on how they'd respond to them now, vs how they originally liked them?
I still very much know I'm *affected* by DKR - it left an indelible impression - but I find it exhausting and sometimes uncomfortable to read, for reasons I'd have a hard time articulating without sounding like some namby-pamby SJW-wannabe. It's exhausting constantly defending my opinions that distasteful people's art is just hard for me to read, and when folks like Sam attack me and try to force me to admit I'm just a prat in adult's clothing, I feel like giving up because there's no way to convince someone who *wants* to believe I'm an ass (and attacking one of their precious beloved treasures) that my opinion is just as valid as theirs, *and* doesn't threaten their right to have their own different opinion. Sorry Sam, but the last comment on that Miller review does nothing to engage me, mostly puts me off the whole damned discussion.
reply | edit | delete | flag * message 11: by Jedhua (last edited 23 hours, 0 min ago) - rated it 5 stars 23 hours, 5 min ago JedhuaMike wrote: "Jedhua wrote: "But since it clearly seems you're not much of a Miller fan � apparently even less than I am � I would be curious to know if you still stand behind your 5-star rating of The Dark Knig..."
Sounds like you might be getting me confused with Sam, bro; and I hope I'm not reading too much into the comment and mistaking your (perhaps understandable) exasperation with defensiveness by saying this. Now I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I know the guy very well, but he does seem like he could be a little confrontational � or at least legitimately perceived so through his word choice. But I suspect what's similar about the two of us is that we're not afraid to challenge people's opinions, and love to engage in these kinds of artistic disputes. And I can't speak for Sam, but I'm personally someone who doesn't tire very easily during the course of debate, so I can truck on indefinitely � at least up until the point where I figure the other party is becoming hopelessly hostile, defensive, or egotistical. I don't get the impression most people are built this way, so I figure I'm probably very weird in this regard.
However, I remember in a comment for your review of Incognito, you said to me (and I quote): "Keep the genuine responses coming, and bring a good snark game. We play touch football style around here." So I read that to mean you felt similarly about constructive criticism and critical discourse. I don't mean to harass or bore you, Mike, but just know that I do have some thoughts about both you and Sam's comments, and see some problems with both. And by now I hope it goes without saying that I'm willing and eager to share them if either you or Sam are interested.
reply | delete | flag * message 12: by Anne - added it 22 hours, 2 min ago Anne Didn't we have a similar discussion in the clubhouse about art vs artist? I came down firmly on Mike's side (if I find the artist despicable I can't enjoy their work), but several of our friends said they were able to disengage their personal feelings and just take the work for what it was. I recently read (for the 1st time) TDKR, and thought it was pretty good. I imagine if I had read it years ago, I would have loved it.
reply | delete | flag * message 13: by Mike - rated it 2 stars 21 hours, 29 min ago Mike Lonergan Yeah, I was mostly talking aloud dude, sorry if I seemed on the attack. I have no good answer to leaving the 5-star on DKR (the unemotional side of me says it would only rate 2-3 stars according to my current standards of comics I look forward to reading - somewhat like the "Going Out The Door" test that Sims and Wilson apply to comics in their War Rocket Ajax podcast) (and the "tired of being lambasted for shitting on the Gods of classic comics" side of me just wants to not draw attention to myself without a long drawn-out and probably hard-to-justify rationale).
I'm usually pretty indifferent to people's derision of me, but (1) [Jedhua's] opinion is worth earning and (2) my opinion of Miller, Moore and other ancients of the art form is pretty shallow/disrespectful to the point where people yell at me for not getting down on my knees and blowing them just on principle.
All that said, in my current appreciation of the current state of comics, and on the basis that my current rating reflects how I'd respond to this work today rather than how I originally responded as an overly-appreciative and under-nuanced teenager, I can't in good faith give this anything more than two stars. Three stars is usually "this was OK but not something I'd recommend", and I can't even grant it that - I'm actively recommending people *not* come to this book expecting to enjoy it. Aside from a few moments of machismo grandeur like "the rain is a baptism...", most of this book is either (a) filled with shovelfuls of exposition, (b) dialogued like a bad syndicated sci-fi show or (c) populated with offensive stereotypes and bigotry. It's an historical artifact, but not one that passes the "going out the door" test....more
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