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I know the feeling of seeing/reading something people said was so great just to think at the end "this was crap"

I had it just at the weekend when seeing Disney's Sleeping Beauty from 1959. Especially after all these people said what a great villain Maleficent is.

Andre wrote: "I know the feeling of seeing/reading something people said was so great just to think at the end "this was crap"

I had it just at the weekend when seeing Disney's Sleeping Beauty from 1959. Especi..."

I expected it to be a boundary-breaking retelling of the Biblical tale. All I got was the same old crap.

Maybe it is just one of those many overhyped books.

I will say, however, that the war in Heaven was pretty darn awesome.

The reinforcing of gender roles was, sadly, just par for the historic course.

Mike wrote: "I will say, however, that the war in Heaven was pretty darn awesome.

The reinforcing of gender roles was, sadly, just par for the historic course."

The War in Heaven is really cool. :)

He was just being true to the Bible.

Anastasia wrote: "He was just being true to the Bible."

in what way?

Actually most of Paradise Lost is closer to Fanfic than a retelling of Biblical passages.

i thought he sympathized with satan and the fallen angels because they rebelled against a tyrant

Ananya wrote: "i thought he sympathized with satan and the fallen angels because they rebelled against a tyrant"

Personally I thought Satan came off as a giant ass in this story. He basically threw a hissy fit when he ended up in hell and decided to be a jerk and ruin it for humans because screw them. To me, no one came off looking good in this story. Not God, not Satan, and not the humans.

@Anatasia Debatable. Satan comes off as sympathetic and God an unreasonable tyrant.

@Ananya & Mike This is why Paradise Lost is such an awesome book to analyze. Satan's a morally ambiguous character.

"Satan comes off as sympathetic and God an unreasonable tyrant."

Exactly.

You should read the book more closely. I generally think that it's your personal fault for approaching the book without wanting to find the good in it. It is the true way to scorn something, not to find Beauty or Truth in it. If you, at one point, desire to hate it, think again why he posed things as such. And do bear in mind that John Milton was one of the most intelligent and educated writers of all time. I hope you return to it 'sine ira et studio'.

Јован wrote: "You should read the book more closely. I generally think that it's your personal fault for approaching the book without wanting to find the good in it. It is the true way to scorn something, not to..."

I rate books according to enjoyment. I did not enjoy this. End of story.

Јован wrote: "And do bear in mind that John Milton was one of the most intelligent and educated writers of all time. ..."

That sounds as if you are saying "You have to like Milton because its Milton."

Јован wrote: "You should read the book more closely. I generally think that it's your personal fault for approaching the book without wanting to find the good in it. It is the true way to scorn something, not to..."

Different strokes for different folks, amigo. Or, if you prefer a more literary aphorism, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Paradise Lost is hardly timeless, so it is reasonable that it would not resonate with many modern audiences. That is not a knock on modern audiences, just a fact of life. Times change, people change, tastes change. And considering how much society has changed since this was written, it is only natural it would not have the same literary heft it once did.

Also, it is really just fanfic from a total bible fanboy.

wait, sexism and slut shaming? you know what... I'm not gonna read this after all. .

Thanks for helping me dodge that!

♫✯Aria loves #Pricefield✯♫❤NO EMOJI❤I'm the lonelier version of you, I just don't know where it went wrong wrote: "Thanks for helping me dodge that!"

<3

I feel that I should point out that, actually, the Bible does not mention Satan possessing the serpent. It is generally agreed that in Paradise Lost, the serpent (who is possessed by Satan) is punished because his lower moral character (as it appears in the Bible) allows Satan to possess him, and he is possessed for this reason. As someone previously stated, Milton was one of the most educated and intelligent writers ever. His scornful use of Greek heroism and mythology mythology is deliberate. We all sympathise with the greek tragic heroes and that is what makes the so appealing (look at Milton's Satan). But, it doesn't mix with Christianity and that is what makes the ''Good guys'' in Paradise Lost less appealing. Similarly, he uses Greek mythology a lot because he was writing in the poetic epic tradition, which, if you have ever read any other epics prior to PL you will see that there is a great emphasis on greek mythology. But, he merges this with Roman, Hebrew, Biblical, and ı think even Zarathustran tradition to create this work. I love it! I just wanted to share this information with you. Milton is one of my favourites and I feel the need to defend him :)

I haven't read it yet so I have no idea if I agree with this review but the fact you posted this meme as part of the review is hilarious.

Llyana wrote: "I haven't read it yet so I have no idea if I agree with this review but the fact you posted this meme as part of the review is hilarious."

<3

Arestelle wrote: "I write down quotes as I read. Sometimes I write margin notes. This one's? stuff like "look up this Greek myth", "wow for such a gung-ho Christian guy he really likes Greek myths" and "screw you, p..."

Hahaha, I love that.

Michelle wrote: "Whoa. Strong vehemence! I have to read this later for a class, haha."

Poor you. It's good for analysis, but a terrible read.

Arestelle wrote: "There are some good bits here and there (I like the quote about "The mind is its own place",which I first saw in Lightman's Mr. g and didn't know it was from this), but Milton was definitely a man ..."

Absolutely.

Wow, that was pretty much my reaction when I had to read this for a course many years ago.

oh shock! u hit it right on the head..

Right? My class had the same opinion.

I don't really understand your review but the meme is so, so good. Thank you for this gem, I'll keep it for years.

BTW: Who cares about 'gender roles'? It's a poem. Not a political statement, in these days anyways.

Martel wrote: "BTW: Who cares about 'gender roles'? It's a poem. Not a political statement, in these days anyways."

I'm glad you like the meme. But I'm afraid I disagree with your stance that literature isn't political. It affects the way we view and think about the world. Deliberate or not, it's always making a statement about something.

lol

Sometimes I like to go to the pages of classics to read the one star reviews and laugh at the people who wrote them. Mission accomplished.

John wrote: "Sometimes I like to go to the pages of classics to read the one star reviews and laugh at the people who wrote them. Mission accomplished."

Sometimes I like to read comments on my reviews and laugh at the trolls behind them. Mission accomplished.

lmao this is hilarious

I disagree with your assessment of Milton's treatment of Eve. The opposite I think is true, Eve is depicted as free thinking, strong, and independent - and as a result sympathetic. Yes, she is punished by God for her disobedience, but so is Satan and may consider him the hero of the book. I think Eve could be thought of similarly.

Maybe if your going to read a book that was written in a completely differnt time period a very very long time ago you should emotionally prepare your self for some misogyny.
As well as "complicated" views that pertain to the time period on Christianity and denouncing Greek Gods as pagans. Maybe drop reading classical literature if your easily offended.

Jesse wrote: "Maybe if your going to read a book that was written in a completely differnt time period a very very long time ago you should emotionally prepare your self for some misogyny.
As well as "complicat..."

Maybe learn the difference between your and you're. Also, sweetie, I have a MPhil in Victorian literature. I analyze classics 24/7.

Also, sweetie, I have a MPhil in Victorian literature. I analyze classics 24/7

Then why are you not better at it?

Heavens forbid someone not like a classic piece of literature. Break out the pitch forks and torches peasants, we have a divergent opinion that needs putting down.



Seriously, people can find classics to be unenjoyable dreck. Lord knows that's how I felt about "Pride and Prejudice" and "Mrs. Dalloway". But attacking a person for having a different response to a piece of art than you just signals that your an insecure jerk who can't handle the fact that you might not be the sole arbitor of good taste.

Or, for those of you who have seen Bambi: if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

Anastasia wrote: "Also, sweetie, I have a MPhil in Victorian literature. I analyze classics 24/7

Then why are you not better at it?"

Because I'm not writing a thesis on it.

Do I think Paradise Lost is a scholar's dream? Yes. For character analysis alone, I can spit out neat sections on Lucifer's sympathetic persona, Eve's surprisingly forward nature in contrast to Adam's timidness, or God and Jesus's nuanced relationship. Hell, let's go out of the text. Let's look at it as a piece of fanfiction in the ongoing debate on whether or not fanfiction qualifies as "proper" literature. Interdisciplinary? Let's consider Milton's daughters who supposedly despised their father but wrote down this text as he orated. What does that say about women's writing? Or self-editing?

But I don't give a fuck about that here because I'm not trying to engage with it academically in this review space. I'm engaging with it emotionally. And I loathe it to my bones.

Mike wrote: "Heavens forbid someone not like a classic piece of literature. Break out the pitch forks and torches peasants, we have a divergent opinion that needs putting down.



Seriously, people can find cl..."

Some classics are terrible honestly. Just because it's hyped doesn't mean it;''s gone.

It’s the same reason why critics (to this day) still consider Henry Miller “literature�� and Anais Nin “pornography��. The world of art and literature is filled with misogyny and sexism. When we praise Jack Kerouac (a putrid womanizing no talent hack) as being “revolutionary�� and condemn Sylvia Plath as being disturbed and crazy; something is definitely one sided. Great comment.

Honestly, sis, what were you expecting??? It was the seventeenth century! Yes, the dynamic of Adam and Eve can come off as misogynistic, but Milton is just following A) the social norm and B) following his religious beliefs. Someone who is (allegedly) as educated in the classic genre as you are should probably be used to the whole idea of women being objects, no? And for whoever said Milton was just a fanboy of the Bible-- isn't religion just a fandom for whatever holy text they have?? lmao. And of course he both denounced Greek deities and then made allusions towards them, but again, someone as smart as you should understand that everyone was reading tales of Greek gods and heros, if they could, because that was the big thing-- Milton knew his audience. The piece can be seen many ways, with some theorizing that it is a political piece about the monarchy, other's saying that Satan and God were lovers. I hope you maybe revisit it sometimes, and be sure to consider other points of view.
Quite frankly I don't quite understand why you don't enjoy it, and i'd love to hear why, if you're willing. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and I'm not trying to be rude or insult your intellect. I'm just a kid lol

It's tough reading something you disagree with. Oh well, not everyone is fit out for literature.

That's a joke. I do get it, since I was made uncomfortable by how much Milton put Eve down, but it's a great poem. Not liking it because of old fashioned beliefs is limiting, and not the wisest choice. Don't you appreciate the incredible poetry? Eve is a rather modern character in some ways, too. She at first resists man.

> Not liking it because of old fashioned beliefs is limiting, and not the wisest choice

I think that not liking it isn't so much of a "choice" - you don't decide "I think I shall enjoy this book" and then adjust your worldview around that.

James wrote: "> Not liking it because of old fashioned beliefs is limiting, and not the wisest choice

I think that not liking it isn't so much of a "choice" - you don't decide "I think I shall enjoy this book" ..."

Well, why not? Why shouldn't you enjoy a poetically solid and culturally important book? Or, rather, why would you dismiss it, knowing that it's as important as it is? It's fine if you don't like it, but you ought to have a solid reason to give it a poor rating.

lol - all valid points, I am trying to read it at the moment.

Kind of like Prometheus Bound where Zeus sentences the Titan to the Caucauses Mounatins for stealing fire from Heaven to give light to mankind.
He is chained to a Mountain Crag where every-night a Vulture eats his liver, but everyday it grows back only to be devoured again, yet Prometheus fights on Valiantly and Heroically--I thought Zeus was such a prick for doing this to the Titan--but the Titan Fights on undaunted

What a lame arse and edgy comment that has no substance, telling of the comment-poster's grasp of the material in question. Some people just like being internet edgelords, I guess. The peak white-capitalist-feminist's lumpy arse keeps on waving high in the winds. Milton will be remembered. People like you? A fart in the wind. Mission accomplished? I guess.