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Shelby *trains flying monkeys*'s Reviews > Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a College Town
Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a College Town
by
Rape in unique. No other crime is so fraught with controversy, so enmeshed in dispute and in the politics of gender and sexuality.
This book is not an easy read. It is however a book that should be read. It really should be required reading in high school and early college years. Not just for the boys either. Girls need this book too.
I wish I could do this book justice in a review. I just don't think I can encompass it well enough. Just read this book people. Even if you hate the way Jon Krakauer writes it still has a message that needs to be read.
Krakauer focuses on the Missoula area, that does not mean that these stories are limited to that area. It was just the area chosen to focus on what is a epidemic that needs stopped. Several women are focused on in this book. Some of their stories involve the fact that they had consumed alcohol before their rapes. They may have known their rapists. They might even have engaged in some foreplay with these guys.
Does that mean that when they said no that their NO wasn't as valid as that woman on the street being jumped by that unknown guy that is raping her? Hell no.
Then when the woman does work up the nerve to actually tell someone that she was raped. She gets a trip to the clinic for a forensic rape test.
For the next four hours I was essentially raped all over again. I had to stand completely naked on a white sheet and let a nurse brush my entire body to collect evidence that might contain his DNA. (Victim's Name) most private recesses were probed, combed, swabbed, photographed, and intensely scrutinized by strangers.
Victims have to be interviewed by police officers who always ask "Do you have a boyfriend?" They have to make sure the victim is not in fact someone that cheated and is using this as an excuse for their loved ones.
You're just being a slut. You're fucking other guys, and you're trying to cover that up by saying you were raped.
Then the public trial of the victims. In one case a lawyer for the guy had a woman's roommates interviewed and her house watched.
There is even a female prosecutor in this book that declined filing criminal charges on one male and then testified in his behalf at the college. Even though there was a taped confession that he did rape the female in question.
This book shook me. I'm sitting her even writing the review with chill bumps on my arms. HOW DO WE STOP THIS????
Changes need to be made so that when a female or male comes forward with a rape claim that they aren't treated like crap. We need to change the fact that most rapes don't even get reported. Changes need to be made and talking about it and getting upset enough to make our voices heard. I'm the mom of both boys and girls. I'm just completely gutted by this culture that's story is told in this book.
Booksource: Library
by
Rape in unique. No other crime is so fraught with controversy, so enmeshed in dispute and in the politics of gender and sexuality.
This book is not an easy read. It is however a book that should be read. It really should be required reading in high school and early college years. Not just for the boys either. Girls need this book too.
I wish I could do this book justice in a review. I just don't think I can encompass it well enough. Just read this book people. Even if you hate the way Jon Krakauer writes it still has a message that needs to be read.
Krakauer focuses on the Missoula area, that does not mean that these stories are limited to that area. It was just the area chosen to focus on what is a epidemic that needs stopped. Several women are focused on in this book. Some of their stories involve the fact that they had consumed alcohol before their rapes. They may have known their rapists. They might even have engaged in some foreplay with these guys.
Does that mean that when they said no that their NO wasn't as valid as that woman on the street being jumped by that unknown guy that is raping her? Hell no.
Then when the woman does work up the nerve to actually tell someone that she was raped. She gets a trip to the clinic for a forensic rape test.
For the next four hours I was essentially raped all over again. I had to stand completely naked on a white sheet and let a nurse brush my entire body to collect evidence that might contain his DNA. (Victim's Name) most private recesses were probed, combed, swabbed, photographed, and intensely scrutinized by strangers.
Victims have to be interviewed by police officers who always ask "Do you have a boyfriend?" They have to make sure the victim is not in fact someone that cheated and is using this as an excuse for their loved ones.
You're just being a slut. You're fucking other guys, and you're trying to cover that up by saying you were raped.
Then the public trial of the victims. In one case a lawyer for the guy had a woman's roommates interviewed and her house watched.
There is even a female prosecutor in this book that declined filing criminal charges on one male and then testified in his behalf at the college. Even though there was a taped confession that he did rape the female in question.
This book shook me. I'm sitting her even writing the review with chill bumps on my arms. HOW DO WE STOP THIS????
Changes need to be made so that when a female or male comes forward with a rape claim that they aren't treated like crap. We need to change the fact that most rapes don't even get reported. Changes need to be made and talking about it and getting upset enough to make our voices heard. I'm the mom of both boys and girls. I'm just completely gutted by this culture that's story is told in this book.
Booksource: Library
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Reading Progress
July 2, 2015
– Shelved
August 28, 2015
–
Started Reading
August 30, 2015
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Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-50 of 73 (73 new)
message 1:
by
Tom
(new)
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rated it 5 stars
Aug 30, 2015 10:03AM
I'm looking forward to reading this.
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Tom wrote: "I'm looking forward to reading this."It's ripping me up. I don't even know what to say about it.
I've read all of Krakauer's other books. He doesn't pick easy subjects but he has never failed to do them justice.
Oooh! Jon Krakauer, he's fantastic! Great review and glad you enjoyed. I read his book about the mormons when I was in high school and I remember liking it.
Rachel ♥Reads Ravenously� wrote: "Oooh! Jon Krakauer, he's fantastic! Great review and glad you enjoyed. I read his book about the mormons when I was in high school and I remember liking it."He has been kinda hit or miss with me. In this one he tries and to me succeeds in an unbiased book. I can't say I loved it but it's one I'll remember.
I've been meaning to read this together with "Rape is Rape" by Jody Raphael but haven't gotten around to doing it yet (yeah, I also stalled because the subject isn't an easy one). Thanks for the detailed review - if I hadn't been sure, I would be now!
Great review! This book REALLY shocked me....hard to believe this is going on!!!
Trish wrote: "I've been meaning to read this together with "Rape is Rape" by Jody Raphael but haven't gotten around to doing it yet (yeah, I also stalled because the subject isn't an easy one). Thanks for the de..."I kept stalling yesterday when I was trying to read this one too. I kept getting upset and putting it down. It's a hard read just for subject matter alone. I haven't heard of the Raphael book. I'll look it up someday. I'm gonna read some fluff now though.
I remember being the only male in a viewing of the movie "the Accused" with Jody Foster which was very uncomfortable viewing but even more uncomfortable during the break and after the movie.Rape and its culture should always be very uncomfortable watching, reading or discussing. Being a father of two young women I once again find myself in the uncomfortable position of telling them not about the love and passion of sex but also about the attitude of men in general when it comes to sex.
Shelby *wants some flying monkeys* wrote: "I kept stalling yesterday when I was trying to read this one too. I kept getting upset and putting it down. It's a hard read just for subject matter alone. I haven't heard of the Raphael book. I'll look it up someday. I'm gonna read some fluff now though. "Yeah, I even have picked out "fluff" I'll be reading after this. But you were absolutely right in your review: it still needs to be read.
@Mark: Growing up in a very safe environment I never could quite believe when people (other guys) told me that men were pigs and to watch myself. But then I started noticing little things (in society as a whole and with several guys around).
On behalf of your daughters, as a 29-year-old daughter, let me assure you: you're doing the right thing! It might be uncomfortable but it's more than necessary. I wish my dad would have done it. We can get "fluff" from movies, but the warnings are too rare.
Carol wrote: "Great review! This book REALLY shocked me....hard to believe this is going on!!!"I knew it was to a point but this just completely blew me away.
Powerful review, Shelby. I'll definitely read it. I had a discussion with people the other day, and that's AWFUL how many people think that "they must have seen it coming" because drunk/skirts/foreplays. I was appalled.
Mark wrote: "I remember being the only male in a viewing of the movie "the Accused" with Jody Foster which was very uncomfortable viewing but even more uncomfortable during the break and after the movie.Rape ..."
I can only imagine how you felt. I'm glad that a guy wrote this book. And yes! You are doing the right thing. Letting your girls know that is so important.
I preach it to my boys even about how they should treat women. I hope that they listen but I know in one case my son did not. (Not rape but still wrong in his actions towards sex with a woman)
And you are so right..this subject should disturb us.
Alienor � French frowner � wrote: "Powerful review, Shelby. I'll definitely read it. I had a discussion with people the other day, and that's AWFUL how many people think that "they must have seen it coming" because drunk/skirts/fore..."I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who's daughter had to have a talk with her about if she had sex with a guy did that mean that he could have it anytime he wanted.
ARGGGHHH things need change!
Shelby *wants some flying monkeys* wrote: "Alienor � French frowner � wrote: "Powerful review, Shelby. I'll definitely read it. I had a discussion with people the other day, and that's AWFUL how many people think that "they must have seen i..."OMG -_- Yes, things need change, and it's depressing to see how much. We don't realize how few teenagers know about what's acceptable and normal and what isn't.
I don't remember this much of not knowing what is acceptable when I was that age. Which I'm old as hell and live in the Bible belt so that could have affected how much differently it was for me than it is now. These girls don't realize that even if they kiss the guy that it is okay to say no. And it's not only happening to women. Men get raped too.
One thing that this book does is tries to be an objective viewpoint. There is even a case that he shows where the woman does do a false claim against a man, but then he shows how most cases aren't fake after the right questions being asked.
I'm on a rant. LOL
The only thing I will say is, that Jon Krakauer has been infamous in the past for distorting things to make himself look better or to tell a better story. I've not read this, and I'm sure I would be horrified either way, but Krakauer is not the most impartial voice in any story. If that is good or bad, I dunno.
message 18:
by
Shelby *trains flying monkeys*
(last edited Aug 30, 2015 02:36PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Gavin wrote: "The only thing I will say is, that Jon Krakauer has been infamous in the past for distorting things to make himself look better or to tell a better story. I've not read this, and I'm sure I would b..."I've never really been a huge fan of his either. I LOATHED a couple of his books. I did like the Everest one. He honestly does try and show different sides to the whole rape culture in this one. It does read very dryly in some spots though. He tends to repeat himself when it's not necessary also but I think that's a pet peeve of mine.
I went and looked. I really didn't like his "Into the Wild" boring ass book. I gave that sucker a big old one star. LOL
Fantastic review. I will definitely read this. And ugh. Rape culture. I hate that most of the time the victim is blamed and that they "were asking for it" and all that bullshit. Ugh.
Shelby *wants some flying monkeys* wrote: "I don't remember this much of not knowing what is acceptable when I was that age. Which I'm old as hell and live in the Bible belt so that could have affected how much differently it was for me tha..."My mum was really involved in the issue and repeated us (I've 2 sisters and a brother) that we could always say no when I was younger, but I know it's not the majority (when I compare with my friens, and I'm 30). I think it's really important to show how many "fake" claims are done and how few they really are in comparision, because that's excuse #1 when we talk about rape and that's infuriating.
What maddens me is the fact that for many people - even open-minded - a rape is something that happens in a dark alley with a stranger and dismiss everything that can happen at a party with friends, with family, with your husband/wife...
Vane wrote: "Fantastic review. I will definitely read this. And ugh. Rape culture. I hate that most of the time the victim is blamed and that they "were asking for it" and all that bullshit. Ugh."There is a lot of this in the book. I think one reason is because it's a college town focused on and they are accusing star football players. So be warned about that.
Alienor � French frowner � wrote: "Shelby *wants some flying monkeys* wrote: "I don't remember this much of not knowing what is acceptable when I was that age. Which I'm old as hell and live in the Bible belt so that could have affe..."Exactly. I really don't want people to think I'm slamming men either. My husband is a good man and I would never slam him. All men are not the same. I guess is what I'm trying to say.
My actual most hated person in this book is a female. I DESPISE her.
Shelby *wants some flying monkeys* wrote: "Alienor � French frowner � wrote: "Shelby *wants some flying monkeys* wrote: "I don't remember this much of not knowing what is acceptable when I was that age. Which I'm old as hell and live in the..."I completely agree, and to reduce rape as a sexual need is incredibly insulting for men. There are many good men out there fortunately and some of them are victims too.
Rape is mostly not about sex although that concept is often hard to understand. It's about power.It's also important to note that it never matters (or shouldn't at least) if someone was drunk, if a girl wore a short skirt, ... nobody is ever "asking for it" or "deserving it".
And it should never be forgotten that quite a lot of men get raped too.
I've read about victim shaming and apparently it's at least as bad for men if not more (the whole "you're a pussy for letting that happen" thing).
I don't care if the author likes to show himself in a better light, numbers are numbers and facts are facts and several experts recommend this book so the numbers must be right.
Somehow whenever there is a reported rape or a good book on the subject showing up, there are people who sidetrack by shaming the victim or trying to do damage to the author's reputation.
I'm not saying that that is what someone was trying to do here, but it sure would fit the pattern and that is another problem with the system.
...
Sorry, now I'm ranting. *lol*
message 26:
by
Shelby *trains flying monkeys*
(last edited Aug 30, 2015 03:27PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Trish wrote: "Rape is mostly not about sex although that concept is often hard to understand. It's about power.It's also important to note that it never matters (or shouldn't at least) if someone was drunk, if..."
Come sit next to me..I'm always ranting about something. LOL
I don't think Gavin was trying to prove that the author was trying to show himself in a better light in this book though. Gavin is actually pretty awesome about putting up with several annoying female reviewer's on here. Myself included. (not that that has anything to do with anything we are talking about..I tend to ramble)
This is the best book on rape culture that I've ever read. Hands down. I like that it has opened discussion on the subject. I'm telling my friend right now on the phone to get it for her daughter. :)
Sadly, when you're younger, you do have those that accuse you of "wanting it", simply because of being out, the way you dress, etc... :(
In my view rape is a crime against humanity and should be treated as such.
Kimberly wrote: "Sadly, when you're younger, you do have those that accuse you of "wanting it", simply because of being out, the way you dress, etc... :("I know. That sucks too. I see so much political stuff on the TV right now I wonder why this subject never gets touched?
Bill wrote: "In my view rape is a crime against humanity and should be treated as such."*fist bump*
Badass review, Shelby!
Shelby *wants some flying monkeys* wrote: "I went and looked. I really didn't like his "Into the Wild" boring ass book. I gave that sucker a big old one star. LOL"I didn't care for that one either. The subject of the book didn't appeal to me at all. Anybody who walks into the Alaskan bush with no supplies and expected to survive the winter lacks the mental capacity to survive life in the suburbs, let alone the bush.
What a phenomenal review Shelby!
Nice review Shelby. Working with rapists and their victims has given me more insight into this hideous crime. Sad when reality is more frightening than fiction.
Thanks, Shelby. It's going on my list.
Great, very helpful review, Shelby. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Yup, awesome review for a great book, Shelby. What's scariest: a seeming entire state (from those who make the laws to those who enforce the laws to those who are supposed to follow the laws...all with a prevailing anti-victim stance. And Montana is hardly unique. Hopefully Krakauer's book will spark a sea change in the way rape is perceived in our culture.
I had to force myself to pick this one back up every time I put it down. So hard to get through but so important.
"Rape culture" changes at a glacial pace. My generation of working women (I'm 60) have never questioned why the Cosby victims, for example, kept quiet for so long. We internalize social definitions of rape, and until recently rape was something done to a woman at knifepoint by a stranger; if she was with someone she knew, if God forbid she had a drink or two in a man's company and he forced sex on her, then presto, she was a slut. Yet I hear young women saying that Bill Cosby's accusers "are obviously lying" because they didn't come forward sooner. That mindset, as infuriating as it is, maybe indicates that young women are seeing aquaintance rape as something that should be reported. I hope to live to see a time when "Only Yes Means Yes" is understood and celebrated. And enforced. With a vengeance. I love Krakauer's work. This is on my Audible list.
For an eye-opening first-person account of campus rape (in this case, by a stranger), read "Lucky," a biographical telling by the author of "The Lovely Bones." The title references a police officer's comment to the rape victim that she was "lucky" not to have been injured.
Thanks Guys! @Kelli, @Jennifer, @Carmen, @Lono, @Charlie. @Randolph and @AJ :)
Tom wrote: "Shelby *wants some flying monkeys* wrote: "I went and looked. I really didn't like his "Into the Wild" boring ass book. I gave that sucker a big old one star. LOL"I didn't care for that one eithe..."
That one just frustrated me. This one I didn't feel like the same writer wrote it. Amazing.
Snotchocheez wrote: "Yup, awesome review for a great book, Shelby. What's scariest: a seeming entire state (from those who make the laws to those who enforce the laws to those who are supposed to follow the laws...all..."I hope so too. <3
Joanne wrote: "I had to force myself to pick this one back up every time I put it down. So hard to get through but so important."This one is so hard to get through. You want to read it but it rips you apart.
Susan (the other Susan) wrote: ""Rape culture" changes at a glacial pace. My generation of working women (I'm 60) have never questioned why the Cosby victims, for example, kept quiet for so long. We internalize social definitions..."I can also see why Cosby's accusers stay quiet for so long. I can imagine that in that situation I would have too. Accusing such a powerful man of rape? They would have been massacred alive at the time. Hell, they are getting some of that now. Just so unreal. I'm proud of them. Stand tall girls!
The other day I read on Twitter about a young man called Owen Labrie who allegedly raped a girl at St. Paul's School (I'm assuming it's a private institute). He got away with just misdemeanor sex offenses, but still even the victim's parents said that justice was done. Hello?! Am I missing something here? How can it be justice if a young, rich, white male can get away with next to nothing - and most probably because he's young, rich and white?! And that doesn't mention the sick "school tradition". And of course the reason for getting away with this hideous crime is that the jury didn't believe the victim and her statement.Here's the full
Patrycja wrote: "Nice review, hun x"Thanks Patrycja! :P
Trish wrote: "The other day I read on Twitter about a young man called Owen Labrie who allegedly raped a girl at St. Paul's School (I'm assuming it's a private institute). He got away with just misdemeanor sex o..."That just pisses me off. This kind of crap needs to stop. There is a college in my area too that certain crimes get swept under the carpet with the students there. I can't believe that in our time this kind of stuff still goes on.
Her parents are even conditioned! I would rage if that was my daughter but they just kind of seem to be saying.."oh well"..that poor girlI remember the Anita Hill case too. I cried for that woman. She got smeared through the mud in the media but she is one of my heroes.
