Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Kelly's Reviews > Emma

Emma by Jane Austen
Rate this book
Clear rating

by
94602
's review

it was amazing
bookshelves: fiction, brit-lit, regency, owned
Read 3 times. Last read December 12, 2011 to December 26, 2011.

This is a book about math, mirrors and crystal balls, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Village life? Sorta. The lives of the idle rich? I mean, sure, but only partially and incidentally. Romance? Barely. A morality tale of the Education of Young Lady? The young lady stands for and does many more important things than that. These things provide the base of the novel, the initial bolt of fabric, the first few lines of a drawing that set the limits of the author to writing about these thousand things rather than the other million things that lie outside those lines. They are the melody to which the symphony will return again and again, but with variations so you’ll never quite hear it again with perfect simplicity. You just have to recognize them to be able to understand the rest of the piece. And that is all. The melody is never the point- the point is everything that comes in between each time it repeats, which then dictates why the repetition is different the next time it all plays out.

You can’t just tune out everything that comes in between. Because then you’ll miss the story about math, mirrors and crystal balls. I missed it the first time around, and I’m sort of upset that I did, because this part of the story is way more engaging. Let’s talk math first. First time I ever wanted to do that without moaning with boredom, so already, points, JA! Austen’s work sets up fascinating equations that keep building and building on top of each other until you get one of those fantastically scary creations that cover the entire wall of a room where the genius who wrote it all out is leaping up and down, exhausted, all, “Eureka! I’ve done it!� only in this case, the genius can actually explain it to you in a way that makes her efforts seem worth it. Once you understand the first couple operations of the equation, then it’s easy to see where the next ones come from.

But to bring it down out of the world of the abstract what I mean is that I think Austen is absolutely brilliant at decoding every little minute detail of the duties, privileges, guilts, obligations, and routines that go into human relationships. Just like how in math if you add instead of multiply in one part of an equation it screws the whole thing, Austen shows us why one simple infraction of this delicate balance in relationships is such a major drama and can screw the whole thing for you. Yes, it’s one simple action, and no matter how justified it is that you forgot one thing amongst the fifty things you’re supposed to do, your answer is wrong and all the other correct work you did is completely invalidated. Red mark. Final. You’re wrong, and you know it and everyone knows it and to put this in Sorkinese you just have to stand there in your wrongness and be wrong. She reveals the little town of Highbury- or even really just the upper echelons of its ruling class- to be a labyrinth of constant choices where there are fifteen steps that one has to go through to narrow down your options. This is where its sort of about village life in that you can’t just do a straight cost-benefit analysis in any direct way because you will have to deal with the consequences of that action every day and it will materially affect your life in way that you can’t avoid like you could with a more anonymous society, or one in which people moved around more. Of course there isn’t as much action as other novels. It takes so much time to get through the lead up and the aftermath of every decision, and every time you skimp on any of it, it comes back to bite you in the ass.

When Emma tries to go out to dinner, depending on the situation she’s got a different set of a million questions to answer and/or tasks to complete. When it’s the one where she goes over to a couple’s house who are “in trade� and therefore her social inferiors, she’s got to come up with formulas that a) make it okay for her to want to be invited in the first place, b) make it okay for her to want to refuse it, then simultaneously c) make it okay for her to want to accept it, then d) figure out a way to see to her invalid father’s comfort (she has to ask him to go, go through a whole thing where she tries to persuade him even though she knows he won’t and shouldn’t come, then she arranges a dinner party for him while she’s out, then she has to arrange that those coming will be comfortable because her father has a tendency to starve people at dinner because he thinks he’s helping them be healthy) then e) make sure that she’ll be received in a style that befits her (she is invited to dinner while “the lesser females�- the term Austen uses- are only invited later in the evening), then f) finally practically arrange for herself to get there and get home which you would think would really be the only thing to worry about the first place. Even when she’s going out to dinner with her best friends down the street, she’s still got to worry about her father’s comfort, the harmony of her difficult family relationships, and who is conveying who by what carriage and why. She has a confrontational thing with Mr. Knightley outside when he comes on his horse rather than in his carriage, which is made worse in that it follows up the reveal that he only used his carriage to go to the other party to convey the “lesser females�, which is actually a big plot point that the whole thing turns on. Mrs. Weston thinks that for Knightley to be so thoughtful he must be in love with Jane, but no, Mr. Knightley just understands math better than anyone and comes up with the right answer more times than anyone as well.

I think it’s interesting that its brought up several times that Emma is always “meaning to read more� or improve herself to live up to the model of Jane that is always before her (the character who is perhaps only second to Mr. Knightley in coming up with the right answer, and even then she’s more impressive about it since she’s doing it with the handicap of having made a conventionally bad decision before the opening of the action), but doesn’t. I entirely understand it because I think she does meticulous enough work every day to make her household and relationships function in the way that they do. I mean, think about it. How many of these people are really suited to be living in such close quarters, where they are forced into repeated contact? Almost none of them. I think this really helps to explain one of the reasons why she befriends Harriet- she’s outside the equation, an X factor that Emma can throw in that might open up new possibilities, which might allow for different and more exciting things than seem currently possible with the options open to her.

Her whole arc with Frank Churchill is sort of the same thing in that it represents another kind of escape from how hemmed in she is. He represents really the only person to whom she can really interact as an equal- someone to whom she doesn’t really have any obligations other than to enjoy herself and speak in a way that is not controlled by what she should be saying or should be doing. He’s not a total X factor in that he’s been mapped into the social hierarchy of the village even in his absence, but the way he’s been mapped means he’s been marked out for Emma. The way in which he’s thought of sort of gives her permission to think of him as belonging to her in a way that allows her to think and act selfishly in a manner that she mostly recognizes as wrong (hence why she almost immediately realizes that she’s not in love with him and would never marry him) but which is also a sweet relief.

But that’s why the two golden children can’t be together. If they were, the math of obligations and ties and duties and privileges would be upset in a way that would rend asunder the balance of life in a way that could never be repaired. When Emma and Frank Churchill end up together, you end up with the 2008 banking crisis and Occupy Wall Street. Their choice to be together might have represented a choice that would have set them “free� in many ways, but free to be lesser than they could be or should be. It’s interesting to me that Austen had Knightley and Jane (her models of what it means to make correct choices, remember) step back to let Frank and Emma make that choice, and then we see how violently both characters freak out about having the higher, better models of humanity removed from them. Those two characters don’t want each other, because honestly at the base of it all, math motivates us- math gives us reasons to get up and move and do it again. Frank and Emma know they can’t do anything for each other- they could only live in self satisfied ease, beauty and comfort, and that’s not enough.

Mirrors and crystal balls are the complement of this math. They’re always haunting the background of all the choices that are made in the novel. Austen is pretty methodical and amazing in how she’s able to make the whole novel a Hall of Mirrors that justifies the title of Emma even better than the fact that she is the main character. Most of the people in the town represent what Emma is and what she is not, and even more importantly, who she could be and who she is afraid she’ll be. Austen brings this out most consciously in the comparison to Miss Bates- who is not coincidentally Emma’s mortal enemy and bête noire. Emma has a conversation with Harriet where the scary specter of her turning into Miss Bates is discussed, and she outlines everything she feels makes her different from Miss Bates. For someone who turns up her nose at people in trade and prosperous farmers, she must have surprised herself by making her main point that she is rich and Miss Bates is poor and then having all other differences proceed from that. I don’t think its coincidental that Miss Bates is perhaps the most memorable character from the whole novel-she’s allowed to ramble on in conversations to the point where it almost seems like we’re experiencing Emma’s nightmare, not an actual person. Nor is it surprising that its Miss Bates she finally acts out on when she loses her shit- of all the equations and all the math she’s done in sorting out her life, Miss Bates is the one constant, loud, obnoxious reminder of the fact that not only is it possible that she’s added instead of multiplied, its possible that just like Miss Bates, math rather than affection will be all she has to rely on.

Her second nightmare mirror is Jane Fairfax, and I think it’s definitely not an accident that Jane is essentially the creation of Miss Bates for most of the novel, who seems to (at least from Emma’s perspective) be actively trying to create the creature most designed to make Emma feel insecure, a person who exists to annoy her and slap her down at every turn, and all in such a sweet guise that there’s no way for Emma to slay the dragon- she just has to let it come at her again and again for her entire life. Emma spends most of the book reacting against, too, and around the mirror of Jane- and by whom she thinks that other people judge her, although this doesn’t seem to be the case.

Much like with Frank, Jane is the natural person to be classed with Emma, by mathematical equation (age, sex, education, social class), but unlike Frank, Jane doesn’t have the potential to set Emma free. Instead Emma feels further hemmed in by her, almost until the point of suffocation, because it seems like people are telling her that she should be the incarnation of the math, which Emma hates. I think that’s what the whole “one cannot love a reserved person,� thing that repeats the whole novel was about. Yes, you should strive after the right answer as much as possible, and it always has to be there in your head, but you can’t let it rule you. You have to be brave enough to be a person sometimes, too, which is all Emma’s about and all she keeps saying the whole novel. Jane is the total opposite of that.

Mrs. Elton is another mirror, with an exaggerated version of Emma’s pride and classism (which Emma usually ends up setting aside, but its always there). Harriet is some fascinatingly complex thing in her psyche where she’s simultaneously this self-hating symbol of what she thinks other people think of her (in that Harriet is the opposite of that) and perhaps also some twisted martyr like version of what she thinks of herself. Mrs. Weston is an idol, which could make her the same sort of suffocating symbol as Jane, but she escapes from that by being in another class and age that cannot be compared to Emma, and through her unconditional love. Other characters also reflect to each other and therefore back onto Emma again as well. The two Knightley brothers, to each other and to the other men of the village, Mr. Weston to Mr. Woodhouse and Mr. Woodhouse to Mr. Knightley and back again, and so on in a round, but it all comes back to Emma.

The book actually reminded me of the feeling that I had towards the end of Madame Bovary, which was odd. That was also a book about living in tight spaces, which seemed to get smaller and smaller whenever you turned, and where the escapes offered to you seemed to have something lacking from them. I was gasping for air by the time that they got to Box Hill, which is I think exactly what Austen intends. But this Emma is not like that Emma. That Emma ignored the math more and more. She wasn’t breaking the rules so much as she was proposing an entirely different game. Austen’s Emma commits an infraction, but still recognizes the rules and the game and the players and has no desire to change them. Ultimately, I think the turning point is Emma realizing that she isn’t locked in the closet at all and she never was. I think there’s so much deception and hidden secrets because and misunderstandings because Emma needs to realize, again and again, that the labyrinth she’s built for herself is of her own making, and bears little to no relation to reality, and it’s damn good thing that it doesn’t. She has to get out of her own head and the crazy garden of fears, paranoias and dreams she’s created there and realize that it doesn’t matter whether she’s the fairest of them all or not. What matters is keeping intact the equation that’s lead to the right answer so often that she’s gotten careless about remembering that it still matters that she does it right, even when she’s moved on to calculus and imaginary equations.

I’ve always related to Emma Woodhouse more than any of Austen’s other heroines, and this reading did not change that feeling. I still think she changes and grows in incredible amounts, in ways that make sense to me and seem genuine. I still want to hang out with her, and I’d still love to be a fly on the wall in her therapy sessions (you know if that weren’t a terrible thing to do) because I feel like she would help me to express a lot of things I feel myself- which she does every time I read this novel. Every once in awhile I come back to the question of why Austen thought others wouldn’t like her. I’ve decided at this point its because I think that her other heroines represent a type or statement of some kind that Austen was reacting to or working through, whereas Emma I think isn’t evocative of anything so sympathetic or recognizable in the symbolic universe. She seems like the most messy, true to life, screwed up, actual person that Austen wrote about. That’s not to say that the other heroines aren’t realistic, they are, but just that they’re tied up with these other languages and ideas and conversations in a way that Emma isn’t. She’s just sort of� this girl who’s trying to be a person and that’s all. She’s maybe the most modern in that respect. I don’t think I am expressing this well. Whatever, she’s still my Austen bestie. That is the important point here.

Anyway, this is unbelievably long at this point so I’ll just offer an executive summary of my above points here: Whatevs, haters. JA, FTW! <} 4EVA!!

* * *
Original Review:This is one of the Holy Trinity of Austen (yes, I just made that up). And in my opinion, deservedly so. Emma is far and away the heroine that I identify the most with of all the Austen women. Jane Austen thought that nobody would like her when she wrote Emma... except maybe she underestimated how many people have things in common with her. She has so many deep flaws that are so easy to completely hate, but she means so very well, and is really a deeply caring person. She just has absolutely no self awareness yet, and has not matured enough to change her opinions when faced with opposition. Here is where she learns how. It reminded me so much of myself at a certain age, and even on some level right now. She's a snob, she's rather a bitch at times, she's condescending, and not all that perceptive. But I just love her anyway. Perhaps because I used to or still have those characteristics and want to believe that even those people will learn and deserve love in the end, even from a Mr. Knightley. But also, I think, because Austen creates her so sympathetically, that it's hard not to love her. This book explains motivations a lot more than in the others, and one gets a few sides of the story of errors towards the end of the book, as everything is set completely right again. I liked that, that she didn't let it go, but tied up all her threads to her readers' satisfaction. Or at least mine.

PS- The Gwen Paltrow/Jeremy Northam movie? My first Austen movie. Got me into the genre, really. I think it's fantastic, and very sweet, and Jeremy Northam is perfectly well cast. Also: you'll see Ewan McGregor with an awful haircut, looking completely unattractive. It's kind of funny.
961 likes ·  âˆ� flag

Sign into Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ to see if any of your friends have read Emma.
Sign In »

Reading Progress

Finished Reading
Finished Reading
May 24, 2007 – Shelved
May 24, 2007 – Shelved as: fiction
July 22, 2008 – Shelved as: brit-lit
July 29, 2009 – Shelved as: regency
September 11, 2009 – Shelved as: owned
December 12, 2011 – Started Reading
December 16, 2011 –
page 279
58.86% "That a man who might have spent his evening quietly at home should set off again and walk half-a-mile to another man's house, for the sake of being in mixed company till bed-time, of finishing his day in the efforts of civility and the noise of numbers..And his coming would prolong rather than break up the party. John Knightley looked at him with amazement, and said "I could not have believed it even of him!""
December 26, 2011 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 197 (197 new)


message 1: by Charlizechat (new)

Charlizechat My identification with/love for Emma Woodhouse is total, to the extent that I could almost invert Austen's comments on her and Lizzy Bennett-- I mean, yes yes I LIKE Elizabeth, but Emma just seems so much fuller, more interesting and endearing. Her only real fault, I suppose, is that her sheer willfulness compels her to disregard what her great intelligence should tell her plain.

In fact, as wonderful as P&P truly is, it feels like a bit of a wisp compared to "Emma." I feel that in this novel every little stitch of Austen's creation has been brought to life fully, everything is in three dimensions so to speak. Love love love it!


Kelly I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who identifies with Miss Woodhouse. :) I don't know if I agree that Emma's only fault is her willfulness, though. I do believe that that is her most obvious fault, yes, but I also think there's a certain lack of knowledge of people and the world, and her perceptiveness really isn't that deep.

I do agree that Austen was much more willing to put faults on display in her heroine in Emma than she was in P&P. I don't know if I agree that everyone is in three dimensions, though. Mr. Knightley is fairly two dimensionally perfect, for instance. Mrs. Elton is two dimensionally evil, etc. Perhaps she just put so much work into her realistic heroine, the rest of the characters fade into the background a bit.

Anyway, I love it too, though. :)


message 3: by Charlizechat (new)

Charlizechat Well, I agree there's room to argue that, but what I feel reading "Emma" is that there's a certain-- I'm gonna go all Harold Bloom/Camille Paglia here-- aura around these characters. "Emma" is constructed like a mystery; everybody has their little secret to hide. Elton crushes on Emma (initially); Mr. Knightley throughout; Frank and Jane are involved; Harriet hides her feelings for Knigtley from Emma; and of course Emma hides her own feelings from herself. So everyone's constantly playacting-- and both Emma AND the reader have to get up to speed on what everyone's really about!

This makes them very different from the cast of P&P, where Wickham is an obvious cad, Jane B. a sweet but flat good girl, Bingley likewise very transparent, Mr. Collins a conspicuous ass, etc. The P&P cast (I'll argue) are very entertaining satiric butts, or else sweet but not terribly memorable people to be happy for, and the focus is all Elizabeth-Darcy. And those two!-- if anything I fear that Austen couldn't bring herself to admit that Lizzy's wounded vanity has an erotic component from the moment Darcy finds her 'only tolerable'!

But Emma W.-- I agree she's initially limited in her knowledge of people, but that I think is because she's queen of her own little world, and part of my euphoria in the novel is that, like the Forest of Arden in Shakespeare, Austen revels in the idyllic insularity of the village. Which is precisely what tees so many people off with this book!!-- Margaret Drabble tore it to shreds in the uncivil intro she wrote for the Signet Classics paperback-- but I love Emma for assuming all her regal perogatives, and watching Mr. Knightley fume and fret when she falters in her duties.




 ~Geektastic~ I love Emma. But that Gwyneth Paltrow movie has lost its sparkle for me. Going back and watching it, Paltrow makes her more annoying than she actually is, and I cannot forgive them for the portrayal of Mr. Woodhouse.


message 5: by Kelly (last edited Dec 12, 2011 10:18AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly I totally like the Mr. Woodhouse of the recent Romola Garai movie much better. They're much more understanding of him, which is nice. It's not useful to laugh at Mr. Woodhouse. Or at least to just laugh at him. I agree with you, looking back it isn't as great as I used to think it was. My problem with Gwyneth's Emma was actually that I thought they made her seem too mature/perfect to be believable for her storyline. However, I think Jeremy Northam does a great job, I loved to hate the Eltons and I thought the girl who played Harriet was adorable. I also think they captured the witty commentary/farcical aspects very well. Just.. maybe concentrated on that too much.


 ~Geektastic~ Kelly wrote: "I totally like the Mr. Woodhouse of the recent Romola Garai movie much better. They're much more understanding of him, which is nice. It's not useful to laugh at Mr. Woodhouse. Or at least to just ..."

I agree on Northam; he's probably the best part. And the Eltons were cast brilliantly. I didn't mind Toni Collette's performance as Harriet, but she was much too old. Age seems to be one of the biggest failings in casting in many of the adaptations.


message 7: by [deleted user] (last edited Dec 12, 2011 11:08AM) (new)

I remember liking the Miss and Mrs...what were their names? The one who couldn't limit herself to just three silly things? I thought that actress was great.

...but I haven't seen it in years. Hubba hubba Jeremy Northam. You can come scold me for my failings anytime.


 ~Geektastic~ Ceridwen wrote: "I remember liking the Miss and Mrs...what were their names? The one who couldn't limit herself to just three silly things? I thought that actress was great.

...but I haven't seen it in years. Hub..."


Mrs. and Miss Bates. Also fantastic.


message 9: by Kelly (last edited Dec 12, 2011 11:24AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly You're right! Every Emma adaptation needs a good Miss Bates, and that actress was great. The one in the more recent movie was also wonderful and they also cast a kinder eye at why she is the way she is.

Age seems to be one of the biggest failings in casting in many of the adaptations.

I agree with this. I wonder if it was the perception in the 90s (it seems to have changed significantly now) that you had to be a more mature actress to handle the material. S&S had the same issue (except for Kate Winslet), though I didn't mind it, and some of the other BBC miniseries as well.

Hubba hubba Jeremy Northam. You can come scold me for my failings anytime.

I think there's a sign up sheet for that. Swoon, Jeremy Northam. He was my first movie star crush. I would have discovered Jane Austen at a much later date if I hadn't watched that movie. I was such a shallow teenager!


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

If you're not shallow, you're emo as a teen. I'm not sure shallow's so bad in that context.


Kelly Ceridwen wrote: "If you're not shallow, you're emo as a teen. I'm not sure shallow's so bad in that context."

I'll take that justification! Besides, it turned out to be shallowness for a good cause! ie, excellent literary discoveries. :) I regret nothing!


Meredith Holley Wow . . . wow. I'm glad I didn't see this before so that I could vote for it now. I hope this essay goes into an Austen tribute anthology someday. "Great Authors on Austen."


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

I unvoted and voted again. This is so awesome, Kelly.


Kelly Thanks guys! I really loved re-reading this. I know not everyone loves Emma, but I think she's much more layered than people give her credit for. Austen gets more amazing every time I read her! Though.. it probably helps that I am not distracted by visions of Jeremy Northam this time around. :)


Richard Kelly, I can't believe the depth to which you've analyzed this novel. I've told people at times that I prefer Emma to P&P, and sometimes I feel as if I'm saying something disrespectful--even slightly blasphemous. But you've confirmed that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

And please check out the 1996 film starring Kate Beckinsale as Emma and Mark Strong as Mr. Knightley. It's not perfect in all respects, but I think it's good too.


Kelly I do agree with you, Richard, but I don't think that its due to any difference in quality between P&P and this one. There are ways in which P&P is even better and I recognize that. It certainly provides a heroine who is much easier to love and it doesn't have the suffocating feeling of this one, which I'm sure many people would appreciate. :)

I think I just like the subject matter of Emma and what it explores more than I do P&P. I think with P&P its sometimes too easy to get distracted with the main Romance Tango (even though that's not the point), whereas with Emma that's clearly not what its about and it has you thinking about different things from the start. I find the push and pull of the relationships in the little community fascinating.

And thanks- I will look for the Beckinsale version. Must be the only one I haven't seen at this point! :)


 ~Geektastic~ I've been putting off doing a write-up of Emma for about two weeks now, and I think I'm going to have to wait a bit longer. Excellent review, and a very hard act to follow.


Kelly I didn't realize you just read Emma as well. Hooray for more Emma appreciation! I'll look forward to seeing your review when it does appear.


Richard Kelly wrote: "I do agree with you, Richard, but I don't think that its due to any difference in quality between P&P and this one. There are ways in which P&P is even better and I recognize that. It certainly pro..."

I think Emma has a different effect on the reader. When one reads it a second time, the irony stands out even more, because you know beforehand all the stupid mistakes Emma is going to make. So she is all the more ridiculous when she is smugly congratulating herself on the superiority of her little machinations.


 ~Geektastic~ Richard wrote: "Kelly wrote: "I do agree with you, Richard, but I don't think that its due to any difference in quality between P&P and this one. There are ways in which P&P is even better and I recognize that. It..."

Emma is one of the most rewarding books to re-read I have ever encountered. You can only really appreciate the subtle intricacy of each little detail on a second go-round.


Kelly You can only really appreciate the subtle intricacy of each little detail on a second go-round.

I completely agree. I think Richard is right in that the plot, with its frustrating repetitions of terrible ideas and its painfully recognizable characters, is enough to deal with on its own the first time around. It's hard to deconstruct if you're yelling or stabbing the pages too much to see the component parts.

And there are really so many here! It's like a game of Jenga. What pieces can we remove and put elsewhere and how many can we do that with without having the whole thing fall apart? Austen is so cool about showing us why the constant series of busy nothings seems to always arrange itself in a certain way. There's an essay in front of the original version of this I read (I just got a new Penguin Clothbound version for Christmas, yay!) that talks about how she's subversively arguing against the French Revolution and for the conservative, country English way of life. I think that's a bridge too far, but I do think that she shows is why it is the way it is. But from a practical perspective rather than anything political.


message 22: by Tika (new) - rated it 4 stars

Tika This is a brilliant review; thank you! I've heard people say that as they get older, Persuasion becomes their favorite Austen novel. But I find that as *I* age, Emma and Northanger Abbey are the front runners; Emma for the reasons you state so well, and NA because Austen is the best mirror-holder-upper that the Regency could have ever hoped for. That mirror business may, in fact, be the reason Austen is still with us while so many other contemporary authors have fallen into obscurity. On the surface she writes perfectly acceptable romances that a teenager can enjoy, but underneath is a peek into what it means to be a person both in your own head and around other people.


Kelly I'm certainly not a math nerd, E, but I don't think any kind of nerd is proof against the charms of XKCD. It's just not possible! :)

This is a brilliant review; thank you! I've heard people say that as they get older, Persuasion becomes their favorite Austen novel. But I find that as *I* age, Emma and Northanger Abbey are the front runners;

Huh! You're definitely the first person I've met to say that, but I think the reasoning is interesting. I feel differently in that NA has always felt like it's the most unadulterated party-time Austen (at least, younger Austen). Like, if you got her drunk and took her out on the town to cut loose (I feel almost sacrilegious mentioning the possibility but bear with the idea!), that would be the kind of person she was. I think that to hold up the mirror to Romanticism in an effective way you'd almost have to access that part of yourself, and I think its probably harder to do that as you get older and your commitments and priorities change. But I can see the argument for it being a straight-shooter no nonsense thing that you'd produce when you're done with romantic dreams as a young girl too. See- there's another key to her continuing relevance- how many ways there are to see into the world and connect with it at different ages.


Kelly Thanks. One of these days I'll learn to edit, I guess! :)


message 25: by Erin (new) - rated it 5 stars

Erin What a wonderful review. Thanks for writing.


Kelly Thank you for saying so!


Emilie this review is brilliant. to mirrors and bete noirs and messy heroines!


Kelly Thanks! And yeah, I like 'em messy- so much more fun stuff to play with!


message 29: by Gina (new) - added it

Gina Kelley here's the thing about Emma. she means well, in an arrogant "I am an aristocrat therefore you should listen to me & ignore what your heart is telling you" kind of way. I find myself wanting to slap her upside the head & tell her to mind her own business. But then, I allow myself to be ruled by my heart so perhaps I am the wrong person to judge. Like I said, she means well.


message 30: by Kelly (last edited May 23, 2012 05:48AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly I would agree that Emma's privileged place in the community gives her the confidence to tell people what to do, and also the confidence that she's right most of the time. I think it has more to do with the fact that she's not only one of the few upper class people in the community, she's also young, beautiful, and has been in charge in her father's house since she was about sixteen. Furthermore, she's smarter than most people she knows. Except for Knightley and Mrs. Weston, she's used to being the smartest person in the room, smarter than her elders. People rarely contradict her, then, for a variety of reasons (again, except for Knightley). I think that this allows her to confuse being clever and actually having knowledge, which are two different things. I think it's less a head vs. heart thing than it is about her "misapplied knowledge" as Knightley puts it. She definitely means well.

I definitely think Austen wanting her to mind her own buisness is the end message, too! After all, look what almost happens when she doesn't.


message 31: by Emilie (last edited May 23, 2012 02:45PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Emilie i don't think that this is a head against heart issue, either. i think emma thinks that her head knows better than other people's heads, not that her head knows better than someone else's heart.

if i remember right, she asks, do you truly love him? yes, she asks in a leading way (closer to, you don't really love him, do you? but this comes from her genuine inability to think that it's possible, not because she thinks that people shouldn't listen to their hearts), and the responses she gets are pretty much lies, but that is part of the problem, that they are not honest with emma, they misrepresent their hearts (it is the true reading of their hearts, of what they show, but don't say that is part of the knowledge she is missing [this is part of what knightley is reading], she is taking them at their word). people often say what they think she wants to hear, and she takes their word to be a true indicator of their feelings. i think it's unfair to blame emma for the lies and omissions of other people.

i think that's a really good point, too, kelly. and i agree with your reading about the complex reasons why she thinks people would benefit by her kind of guidance. also, she is encouraged to give herself to people, they ask her for her help/guidance/approval, and i think that she (and they) misunderstands what this means.


Kelly she is taking them at their word). people often say what they think she wants to hear, and she takes their word to be a true indicator of their feelings. i think it's unfair to blame emma for the lies and omissions of other people.

This is a great point too. Emma is left on her own to figure out a lot of stuff, and especially if she's used to people conforming to her wishes, there's no reason to think that they wouldn't now in whatever their private feelings are. I think this is another reason why Knightley is so important- he's the only person who is secure enough in his place with her and in the community that he can pretty much say whatever he wants to her. She gets that from too few people. So despite whatever differences they have, she needs him. Even Frank Churchill, who she hoped would be her equal and friend and went so far as to almost be in love with because of that.

Great point.


Emilie i think that's really important about knightley, too. that he treats her like an equal, that he is her equal. without having someone like that in her life, someone as smart as she is, someone who values her enough to discuss things with her (and has the confidence to value himself), someone willing to say things she doesn't want to hear, and someone in a position where it's safe for him/her to do so, it's like there are no walls around her at all, nothing containing her, her hands go right through air, and it's really lonely.

and i think that knightley challenges her, it's also reassuring to her to have someone that meets her where she is. it's a kind of holding, i think. there is something to push against and it is clear, and it helps define what is outside her. yes, emma is isolated by her intelligence, and by her place in the community in a way that needs to be broken through by someone who can meet her as an equal. that's part of why i get so angry at frank churchill for lying to her and leading her on so much, it feels particularly cruel.


Kelly someone in a position where it's safe for him/her to do so, it's like there are no walls around her at all, nothing containing her, her hands go right through air, and it's really lonely.

Exactly, what a great way of putting it. And I think it says good things about Emma that this position doesn't turn her completely into the Evil Queen of Highbury. She resists that for many years and seems to have pretty strong principles, and part of that has to be due to Knightley (and possibly his brother, who seems like he doesn't take any nonsense either, though he's ruder about it so his opinion possibly means less).

I also totally agree about Frank. Poor girl- no wonder she thinks she's in love with him for at least a few minutes. It's more like she lost her only real friend than anything. That's the one way Knightley can't meet her as an equal- her youth. He'll always be superior/distant in that in a way that makes it seem like "he just doesn't get it!" That's another reason I love that movie interpretation so much- they make Emma seem truly sad that she'll never have Jane as her friend, and make us see that it is a loss for her, who essentially only has one or two friends.


Emilie And I think it says good things about Emma that this position doesn't turn her completely into the Evil Queen of Highbury. She resists that for many years and seems to have pretty strong principles
yes, i agree, she is amazing for making the choice to really look at herself, to acknowledge when she is wrong, and to want to be a certain kind of person that follows her principles when it would be so much easier for her to turn into the Evil Queen of Highbury (i like that title, though!). that's part of what i love about her. it'd be understandable, but she doesn't, she makes a choice to take a harder path.

i forgot about knightley being older. that's funny (you just don't understand, knightley! *stamps shoe*)

i think that interpretation shows the way that emma is lonely more. i like that it shows both her sadness over wanting to be jane's friend,and i think it shows jane's sadness or wish to be emma's friend, too. it's also more clear that jane is aware of how she is being packaged in a way that makes friendship more difficult. emma and jane both could really use a real friend, it's sad the way everyone around them sets them against each other. i thought the ending of this one gives the impression that emma and jane will become friends now, that their story isn't completely over.


s.penkevich Have I mentioned that this is one of those most wonderful, insightful reviews on this entire site? I must admit I've read it probably a dozen times in the course of reading the end of Emma.


message 37: by Kelly (last edited Jun 10, 2012 02:56PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly Aw, thank you! That's so nice of you. Have you been enjoying your read of Emma?

(Also, Emilie, I am sorry I never responded to your last comment- I never got the notification! But I would like to say that I think your comments on Emma and Jane's relationship are super insightful. I always pictured the next chapter in the story is them becoming pen pals and having quiet, but kind, gossip sessions at the holidays. I also love the comment that Jane is aware of "how she is being packaged," which I think is so true. It just takes until the end for her to see that Emma has been packaged in a bad way as well.)


s.penkevich Kelly wrote: "Aw, thank you! That's so nice of you. Have you been enjoying your read of Emma?

(Also, Emilie, I am sorry I never responded to your last comment- I never got the notification! But I would like to ..."


Yes, I enjoyed it very much. I think I'm going to be reading a lot of Austen this year now.


Kelly Great! I'm happy to see another Austen convert. Especially to Emma. Not everyone's a fan of Emma the novel even if they like her other work, because it's such a tiny little world, or they can't stand the character. I'm always delighted with people see beyond that.

I definitely recommend S&S or P&P for your next read, though. I also love Northanger Abbey, it's very witty/biting/satirical, but it's not as mature as some of her other work. Enjoy your Austen exploration! I look forward to seeing what you think.


s.penkevich I'm thinking of revisiting Pride & Prejudice next to erase my initial juvenile prejudice against it. But then again, Sense does sound good too, I'm excited to read them all. I need to read the rest of the Bronte's too, I think Jane Eyre so far is my favorite of that period.

Yeah, I can see how people could be turned off by Emma (the character), she really got on my nerves at first. I felt that watching her fall was initially satisfying, but then watching her get back up became the real satisfaction and reason to keep reading.


Kelly Yeah, Emma grows and changes a lot. If she didn't, there would definitely be little point in reading the novel.

I love JE! Have you read Villette? You should totally do that if you're a JE devotee. Comparing Lucy and Jane is a difficult and fascinating business.


message 42: by s.penkevich (last edited Jun 10, 2012 05:02PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

s.penkevich Not yet, perhaps I'll skip back and forth between her and Austen and hit Villette next. I fell madly in love with Jane Eyre, so I'll have to keep myself opened minded ha. Bronte's prose was stunning though. I'm going to be raiding your booklist and reviews for more from that era. I didn't think I would, but I've come to really enjoy these books. It all started when I was reading Dostoevsky's The Idiot, the beginning of which is all about arranging marriages and such and thought 'this is like a Russian Jane Austen', and realized I really knew nothing about what JA was. I'm glad I took the plunge.


Kelly I think you have to fall in love with JE first to really appreciate the brilliance that is Lucy. Don't let her put you off, if you try it! She's going to try to do her best to, but don't let her tell you she isn't worth it. It's Bronte's masterpiece, I think.

I haven't read The Idiot! Maybe I should sometime.


Meredith Holley I LOVE ALL OF THESE BOOKS! Except for Emma. But, I do love this review A TON. And I love both the new and old filmed versions of Emma. She works better on screen for me. I am a product of pop culture.


Meredith Holley In truth, I do not love the Idiot as much as other Dostoyevsky, but it is still wonderful. And Villette is wonderful wonderful. And S&S is also . . . wonderful. I will go find a thesaurus now.


Kelly Damnit with this further agreement, girl!!

Also, there is no shame in loving those filmed versions of Emma. I love them too! That Garai miniseries is my favorite filmed Austen, I love it to pieces. There are lots of reasons to love it on screen over the actual prose. Not the least of which is that you can see what Austen wants you to pull out from between the lines about these peoples' relationships in the way they speak to each other. It really shows you the love, not just the jokes. LOVE IT.

So what other Dostoyevsky did you read? I have not read any! Point me in a good direction to start if you can!


Meredith Holley Man, the Garai miniseries is so great.

These are the Dostoyevsky in order of my favorites to least:

Crime & Punishment
Brothers Karamazov
Notes from the Underground (I hate/love this one a lot, so it is weird to rank it, but it was sort of life-changing to me, so it seems like it should go here.)
The Idiot
The Gambler

I think that's all I've read. I have the Possessed, so that one's next. People who read C&P first usually love it best, and people who read Brothers Karamazov first love it best. It is one of those where neither is probably technically better, and they are similar enough that when you read the other, you're like, "Oh, well, we already know this, right?" But, the first time, you're more like, "OMG WHOA!" Even, though, actually I am kind of always like that with him. He gets to me a lot. When I went through my Dostoyevsky phase, I spent a lot of time being unreasonably jumpy and convinced people were out to get me. It freaked my roommate out somewhat.


Kelly I tried Karamazov once (I forgot about that!) and I bogged down and quit during that one part where everyone bogs down and quits. The bazillon page monologue by whatshisface. I liked it up until that point though, so maybe I should go back to that and persevere! I don't remember why I stopped. Something shiny like Villette, probably.

When I went through my Dostoyevsky phase, I spent a lot of time being unreasonably jumpy and convinced people were out to get me. It freaked my roommate out somewhat.

Oh dear. So not like.. the fun paranoia where you almost believe in alien theories. Well, at least your roomate was kind and didn't try to mess with you or anything!


message 49: by Meredith (last edited Jun 10, 2012 06:38PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Meredith Holley haha, well, when I first saw X-Files, I couldn't sleep for like a week, so more fun than that. But, he definitely gets in my head. I don't really remember BK that well, maybe it was the part with the monk? I feel like there are almost always parts like that in the obscenely long books, and pushing through is worth it. Even Villette has that whole part where (view spoiler).

My roommate had usually been the paranoid one, so I think she liked having the company.


message 50: by Kelly (last edited Jun 10, 2012 06:44PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly OMG. X-Files. I was totally into it... at least the parts I could see when I wasn't covering my eyes. My thing that freaked me out? Unsolved Mysteries. Did you ever watch those? They were so addictive and such a bad idea every single time.

I think it was definitely the part with the monk. Also, I was reading it out loud with my now-husband because he'd also given up on it twice and we were trying to motivate each other. But that is maybe not the best out-loud book.


« previous 1 3 4
back to top