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Bill Kerwin's Reviews > I and Thou

I and Thou by Martin Buber
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it was amazing
bookshelves: spirituality, philosophy, theology, religion


I hesitate to write about this book, for, although it has influenced how I think about—and relate to--people, animals, the environment, works of art, prayer, God, you name it, there is much in it that I do not comprehend, and a few things that baffle me completely.

What I am sure about is that—before anything—this book is about the two essential ways in which we relate to the "other"--that is, whatever we perceive to exist that is apart from our self. We may either treat the other as a thing (describe it, classify it, analyze it, and manipulate it) or we may relate to it as a person (experiencing its presence, its uniqueness, its mystery, its irreducibility). These two ways are what Buber calls the two “primary words": “I-It� and “I-Thou.�

When I first read Buber as an undergraduate, I must have skimmed over most of the hard parts, for I felt strongly he was championing the “I-Thou� over the “I-It.� And this made sense, for it was part of the way we young people thought about life in the late '60's: reverence the earth, listen to the environment, treat animals as you would people, and experience the divine without presuming to conceptualize it. “I-It� was the world of businessmen, technocrats, and bishops; “I-Thou� was the world of artists, poets, and mystics. And I knew which side I was on.

Now I see Buber message as more nuanced, more profound. He is not presenting a dichotomy, or proposing a hierarchy of relations; he is describing the working out of a process, the nature of a dialogue. It is impossible for anyone to speak only one of the two primary words all the time. The mystic, for example, when he speaks the word “I-Thou� encounters God, but when later he describes the nature of this encounter to others, he must speak the word “I-It� if he is to be at all understood. “I-It� theological conceptions are barren without the “I-Thou� experience, but without the “I-It� analysis the mystical “I-Thou� is mere mute sensation, and degenerates quickly into solipsism. To be fully human is to be in habitual dialogue, part of a continuing dialectic with the world and the divine.

As I said before, there is much about this book I do not yet understand. Sometimes it seems like anthropological analysis, sometimes philosophy, sometimes theology, and at other times like a prayer or perhaps a poem. But I have learned that, whenever I feel baffled, I should I sit at Buber's feet and say �Thou�. Every time I do, I return to the world of things a little wiser.

Here is one of many passages of Buber which both mystify and enlighten me every time.
Man can do justice to the relation of God in which he has come to share only if he realizes God anew in the world according to his strength and to the measure of each day. In this lies the only assurance of continuity. The authentic assurance of duration consists in the fact that pure relation can be fulfilled in the growth and rise of beings into Thou, that the holy primary word makes itself heard in them all. Thus the time of human life is shaped into a fullness of reality, and even though human life neither can nor ought to overcome the connection with It, it is so penetrated with relation that relation wins in it a shining stream of constancy: the moments of supreme meeting are then not flashes in darkness but like the rising moon in a clear starlit night.
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Quotes Bill Liked

Martin Buber
“And if there were a devil it would not be one who decided against God, but one who, in eternity, came to no decision. ”
Martin Buber, I and Thou

Martin Buber
“All real living is meeting.”
Martin Buber, I and Thou


Reading Progress

December 1, 2015 – Started Reading
December 1, 2015 – Shelved
December 1, 2015 –
page 15
10.95%
December 4, 2015 –
page 34
24.82%
December 5, 2015 –
page 46
33.58%
February 12, 2016 –
page 58
42.34%
February 19, 2016 –
page 83
60.58%
February 20, 2016 –
page 95
69.34%
February 20, 2016 –
page 104
75.91%
February 21, 2016 –
page 112
81.75%
February 24, 2016 –
page 120
87.59%
February 26, 2016 – Shelved as: spirituality
February 26, 2016 – Shelved as: philosophy
February 26, 2016 – Shelved as: theology
February 26, 2016 – Shelved as: religion
February 26, 2016 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-31 of 31 (31 new)

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message 1: by Daniel (new) - added it

Daniel Villines An understanding that these two approaches, “I-It� and “I-Thou,� exist would transform society. Thank you for boiling it down within your review.


Kamakana Bill, here is my brief perhaps unsympathetic review, thank you for yours: /review/show...


message 3: by Mounir (new)

Mounir Nice review, Bill.
From the passage you quoted it really seems that Buber's style is difficult to understand. I remember reading a book about existentialism [by John MacQuarrie] and even there the part dealing with Buber's philosophy was also a bit difficult.
The difference between the I-It and I-Thou relationships, reminds me of the two styles of life which Eric Fromm talked about: To Have or To Be. In "Having" you convert everything into an object, even ideas or morals or works of art, and one can only have or acquire or hoard objects, you even kill an object in order to enjoy it; while in "Being" there is a humane and spiritual contact : you let things unfold, you relate to their true qualities, you enjoy the other and let the other enjoy you, and you both grow into better persons.


Bill Kerwin the gift wrote: "Bill, here is my brief perhaps unsympathetic review, thank you for yours: /review/show..."

You present a cogent, atheist viewpoint of Buber. But tell me: doesn't an atheist sometimes say "thou" to a sunset, a symphony,. a poem, or a tree? This doesn't imply the necessity of going further, but i think it might help an atheist appreciate Buber more.


Bill Kerwin Mounir wrote: "Nice review, Bill.
From the passage you quoted it really seems that Buber's style is difficult to understand.."


Not easy, but I picked a particularly difficult passages since I was looking for one that both baffled me and inspired me. There's a lot of stuff like this, but I wouldn't call it representative.


Kamakana o i do agree with experiencing depth and emotions, just do not feel that it is necessarily religious to have value... then again it has been some time since i read it, not sure why i took an atheist reading but it was a phil doctorate student who was very excited about it and rec'd it..


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

Hi Bill, thanks for the link. I read this book and enjoyed it, but have not yet gotten to a review. But, my thought, when reading your review is that even Walter Kaufmann thought the book difficult to understand! His intro.is kind of humorous with that revelation. And Buber even said he himself couldn't rewrite it or elucidate it, it was sort of a one shot deal. But, a great book nevertheless, and I agree with your review.


message 8: by Erika (new)

Erika Great review! I've never read Buber, and although I've heard of the I/thou dichotomy, I never understood what it meant until reading your wonderful explanation.
I must say though that the passage you quoted was a little frustrating. At the risk of sounding really arrogant, to me, it almost seemed as if Buber was unnecessarily impenetrable. It took a number of careful readings for me to even grasp the surface of his thoughts and while the concept of "the only assurance of continuity" is not a simple one, I wonder if it still could have been expressed more simply.
Thanks for this fantastic review and leaving me with the image of that rising moon--something so beautiful, and yet so tricky to obtain.


Bill Kerwin Erika wrote: "I must say though that the passage you quoted was a little frustrating..."

Buber is difficult, but I chose this particular passage to show how Buber both baffles and enlightens me at times. I choose a particular passage never the end of the book, and therefore I fear I unfairly represented him.


What follows are three representative and illuminating passages:


"It is said that man experiences his world. What does that mean?

Man travels over the surface of things and experiences them. He extracts knowledge about their constitution from them: he wins an experience from them. He experiences what belongs to the things.

But the world is not presented to man by experiences alone. These present him only with a world composed of It and He and She and It again. . . .

As experience, the world belongs to the primary word I-It.

The primary word I-Thou establishes the world of relation."

*

"If I face a human being as my Thou, and say the primary word I-Thou to him, he is not a thing among things, and does not consist of things.

This human being is not He or She, bounded from every other He and She, a specific point in space and time within the net of the world; nor is he a nature able to be experienced and described, a loose bundle of named qualities. But with no neighbor, and whole in himself, he is Thou and fills the heavens. This does not mean that nothing exists except himself. But all else lives in his light. . . ."

*

"I become through my relation to the Thou; as I become I, I say Thou.

All real living is meeting."


message 10: by Ron (new)

Ron Bill, Many of my comments would follow yours very closely for my first reading of "I-Thou" in the late 60's just after college, but goaded by your comments of a second reading, I am going to make a return visit. Buber certainly had a tremendous influence on the theology of his time as well as philosophy, psychology and the culture of his day. I will say his lyrical prose pulled in many readers just for the beauty of it. So little of his writing has been translated from the German, which in my thoughts make him less known than many that we know much more about.


message 11: by Alan (new)

Alan My best friend for years, Rabbi, Bill met Buber in Israel in the late fifties; Bill asked MB to sign his book. Buber responded, "I only sign for friends." No "I-Thou" there! I- It!


message 12: by Ron (new)

Ron Alan, I agree with your assessment of Buber's "I-It" comment but then no man on earth including Buber could ever be in an "I-Thou" mode all the time and though "I-Thou" has resonated with the philosophy and theology followers at least since it was translated into English, I think Buber admits that it was a standard he could not always follow and the world of Germany following WW I is not a place Buber or any man could state his opinions without subjecting themselves to the real possibility of death. It reminds me of another German theologian of the time, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who chose to stay in Germany to fight for his idea of the Church and Man. Just idle thoughts "of an old man being read to by a boy waiting for rain."*. . . . . .Alan, what did you do to Amazon that they would give you such an evil write up to summarize your career. That was not a back-handed slap in the face, it was more of a rabbit punch to the mid-section when you weren't looking? * comes from one of T. S. Eliot's poems but I don't remember which one. Ron


message 13: by Glenn (last edited Jul 17, 2016 01:41PM) (new)

Glenn Russell Alan wrote: "My best friend for years, Rabbi, Bill met Buber in Israel in the late fifties; Bill asked MB to sign his book. Buber responded, "I only sign for friends." No "I-Thou" there! I- It!"

Ha! And you are kind with I - it. Could be I - _ _ it. Curious how as many books as a spiritual teacher writes, ultimately, many people's overarching judgement is how they conduct themselves in the world.


message 14: by Christine (new) - added it

Christine Zibas Very nice review. However, if all the writing is like your ending quote, this seems like it could be a challenging book to read and understand.


message 15: by Bill (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bill Kerwin Christine wrote: "Very nice review. However, if all the writing is like your ending quote, this seems like it could be a challenging book to read and understand."

It is challenging, but rewarding.


message 16: by Sean-Wyn (new) - added it

Sean-Wyn Thanks for this review, I want to read it now :)


message 17: by Elizabeth (new) - added it

Elizabeth R. the name and the concepts are familiar. I think I no longer have the energy to wrestle with this type of text though. I don't suppose anyone has written about it in the last 10 -15 years?


message 18: by Bill (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bill Kerwin Elizabeth wrote: "the name and the concepts are familiar. I think I no longer have the energy to wrestle with this type of text though. I don't suppose anyone has written about it in the last 10 -15 years?"

Don't know. I always like to return to the source. There are books out there, though, that collect excerpts of Buber under specific topics, broken down into small digestible sections. You might try one of those.


message 19: by J (new)

J sounds like an extension of Kant as well.


message 20: by Lee (new) - rated it 2 stars

Lee Coleman nice review.


message 21: by Alan (new)

Alan More like "I and IT/You" My Rabbi friend asked Buber to sign his book; Buber, "I only sign for my friends." (This, in the 50s)


message 22: by William (new)

William Wonderful review, Bill. Thank you


message 23: by Alan (last edited Jan 31, 2017 10:10PM) (new)

Alan Ron wrote: "Alan, I agree with your assessment of Buber's "I-It" comment but then no man on earth including Buber could ever be in an "I-Thou" mode all the time and though "I-Thou" has resonated with the philo..."
Thanks for your concern, Ron. I consider it the best that can be said. I wrote it. Maybe you're not used to author's treating themselves with irony? Though I am not ironic at the close--Great teachers do get killed. And no government admires a great teacher, who is like a second government--maybe Solzhenitsyn said that. Oh, and the "harmless drudge" I stole from Samuel Johnson the critic and writer of the first English dictionary (you seem to like accounts of the OED?)--on himself. High praise, for me.


message 24: by BlackOxford (new)

BlackOxford Bill, for someone who claims not to understand, you managed to pick a section that summarises Buber quite well. Several things are evident in the quote. The first is that relationships are real things. This is an important and not self-evident proposition. The second is that the I-Thou relationship is also 'a thing'. This thing is very specifically a relationship between a human being as a person and God as a person. This too is a proposition. The third is that the relationship between human beings and other things in the world can be included in the relationship with God if we choose them to be. We have the power to do this - also a proposition. This is doing justice to the real thing which is the relationship with God, that is giving the relationship its due. That relationship is 'honoured' if you like by including more and more of the world in it. This is how we create reality, or better, how reality enters into us and makes us more complete. Finally, perhaps the most difficult thing to grasp, is that what we call time is an essential component of this relationship with God. Without this relationship, time is meaningless, that is, not a thing. And without time in our lives we are merely fragmentary and without real identity. I have an idea that Buber actually began his meditations with the mystery of time and then worked his way back into the I-Thou relationship as a sort of transcendental reduction, that is deducing that for time to be real other things had to be as well. In any case, like most profound expressions, Buber's are both more and less complicated than they might appear.


message 25: by Bill (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bill Kerwin BlackOxford wrote: "Bill, for someone who claims not to understand, you managed to pick a section that summarises Buber quite well. Several things are evident in the quote. The first is that relationships are real thi..."

Thanks for the close analysis. I agree with you that the nature of time--reifying, uniting, fructifying--is essential here.


message 26: by W. (new)

W. Boutwell His seminal work and well worth the read. Mysticism is always attractive but Buber gives it substance


message 27: by Lawrence (new)

Lawrence FitzGerald Newton was a scientist (among other things). He formulated his laws of motion, the universal law of gravitation and calculus. At once was explained the fall of the apple, the origin of the tides, the path of the moon and planets across the sky. The mystic is the transcendental process that allowed him to see the order in chaos. When it all came together and the scales fell from is eyes, I bet he felt as though touched by God or as a god himself. The moments of supreme being ARE flashes. Buber be damned.


message 28: by Alan (new)

Alan My longtime friend, a Rabbi and Ph.D as well, met Buber in Israel, asked him to autograph his book already read. MB said, “I only autograph my friends� books.� So, I and who-sis.


message 29: by Ellen (new)

Ellen I was surprised to find this author among books reviewed. Many years ago a woman mention Martin Buber in reference to an experience I had. She said he had written about the concept of nothingness. I understood that word completely. Good review and a bit unusual as I stated before.


message 30: by Michele (new)

Michele Want to re-read (last read between 1978-1980)


Craig Amason This review was helpful to me - thanks.


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