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Ilse's Reviews > Lady Susan

Lady Susan by Jane Austen
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it was amazing
bookshelves: 2018, 2018-autorinnen, uk, reviewed

Good girls go to heaven, bad girls go everywhere.

O Lady Susan Vernon, what a juicy jewel of a villainous character you are, a black diamond, repelling and fascinating at the same time, your wicked charm inspiring possibly an uncanny form of envy more than simple revulsion. Deceiving everyone with your angelic face and pleasingly mild manners of hypocrite virtue, your honeyed smile covers up a cold-hearted, calculating, selfish nature � and how cunningly sophisticated and feisty you are in comparison with those limp noodles of ‘contemptibly weak� men who are so unlucky and naïve to get entangled in your scheming, just playthings and pawns in your frivolous and cruel games. Speaking your mind, confiding your real thoughts, motives and stratagems in the letters to your equally evil friend Mrs. Johnson, you drop the mask of amiable countenance, showing the hideous face of the ruthless, manipulative and coquettish seductress more ordinary women furtively fear or believe to be hidden behind an all too pretty face, an overkill of charm and overly refined manners � a treacherous face they’d be happy to expose, as your sister-in-law relentlessly expounds in her letters to her mother.

However it might appear slightly preposterous in our present day context, and aside from your exasperating and vicious character, Janus-faced, unadulterated malignancy, lies, indulgence in power and dominance, abhorrent mistreatment of your poor daughter Frederica, your rather disgracefully merry recent widowhood (grief-stricken? not you) - isn’t your behaviour simply rational and comprehensible in the world of Jane Austen, an attempt to basically have a normal household again, regain status, avoid and overcome penury and ill reputation � after all, for women in your position, a sensible way of dealing with the ordeals of widowhood if not amongst the lucky ones to whom it brought wealth or even power? A la guerre comme à la guerre! What was to be expected for you as such a widow in the male-dominated society in that time and class? What was to be done? Did you truly have other alternatives than go on the hunt for a rich second spouse and foisting yourself upon the household of your late husband’s brother as an operating base to improve your circumstances, left behind with no home, no money, and nothing useful to do?

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I am tired of submitting my will to the caprices of others; of resigning my own judgment in deference to those to whom I owe no duty, and for whom I feel no respect.

In such a patriarchal world there is no convenient place for an unattached woman, regardless of her eventual valiant intelligence and shrewd machinations, and specifically not if ‘dangerously endowed with experience and independence� and potentially unchaste like a widow, a figure to be feared and guarded against, knowing the game all too well. But she doesn’t set the rules of the game. And young Jane Austen � estimated to have written this delicious epistolary novella between 1793-94, not yet twenty years old - didn’t seem keen on endangering or shocking society by letting her amoral widow bask in her redeemed liberty and independence for long.

Where there is a disposition to dislike, a motive will never be wanting.
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Reading Progress

August 27, 2016 – Shelved
February 10, 2018 – Started Reading
February 11, 2018 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 111 (111 new)


message 1: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala Interesting thoughts on the choices an impoverished widow was left with in the late eighteenth century, Ilse.
Austen must have been such a sharp youngster sitting in at gatherings of her large extended family, and watching how everyone behaved - and misbehaved. She definitely knew more of the world than her heroines did - with the exception of the unforgettable Lady Susan!
I think I read this when I was 'not yet twenty', so one of these years, I'll reread her letters.


message 2: by Dolors (new)

Dolors Brava for the light you shed on this Victorian anti-heroine, Ilse! On how manipulative widows are victims of time, place and gender... This title and Sandition are the onle Austens I have left to read, although it wouldn't hurt me to read them all again and go back to my Anglophile origins!


message 3: by Fede (new)

Fede Ta description de la protagoniste pourrait bien paraître dans un roman du Marquis, Ilse ;p


message 4: by Silvia (new)

Silvia Cachia I will read this so different Austen, (or is it?), what a way she had to uncover arquetypes she had. Unforgettable Lady Susan. Huh. Great review, I loved all you share, I feel as if I know her a bit, now, to read her story in full.


message 5: by Silvia (new)

Silvia Cachia Sorry for the repetitive sentence. Writing from the dreaded phone.


Ilse Fionnuala wrote: "Austen must have been such a sharp youngster sitting in at gatherings of her large extended family, and watching how everyone behaved - and misbehaved. She definitely knew more of the world than her heroines did - with the exception of the unforgettable Lady Susan!
Thank you very much, Fionnuala, what added to the fun for me was that Lady Susan at 35 is depicted as middle-aged - I can imagine this, like so many other novels, comes across quite different when reading it 'not yet twenty';p - I would very much like to hear your current thoughts on the unforgettable Lady Susan! On Austen's observance of her relatives, I wonder if some of them did read her work, and then how they responded when recognizing certain features in her characters. I read one source for Lady Susan was 'her cousin Eliza de Feuillide, who flirted with both James and Henry Austen and in the end married Henry, reluctant though she was to exchange "the homage of half a dozen" for "subjection and the attachment of a single individual".'


message 7: by Y (new)

Y Enchanting review. Seems like a fantastic self-help book for girls hunting for a husband.


message 8: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Oh, that finishing quote is PERFECT! What a lovely review to find in my feed on the first day I can sit outside here on the North Pole (southern suburb!). I'll add it pronto.


Ilse Dolors wrote: "Brava for the light you shed on this Victorian anti-heroine, Ilse! On how manipulative widows are victims of time, place and gender... This title and Sandition are the onle Austens I have left to read, although it wouldn't hurt me to read them all again and go back to my Anglophile origins!"
Thank you very much, Dolors, Lady Susan is such a wonderful anti-heroine, to me it appears that Jane Austen endowed her with all possible feminine vices she spotted in her environment, at once shaking her head observing men willing to be deceived by them :). I can very well understand that reading Austen inspired your Anglophile leanings, imagining the same could have happened to me if I had read her before getting glued to France and Russia :) (imagining now what a whole different reading life this would have been). Unlike you, I have only read this, P & P and S & S so far, but got terribly hooked and now treat her like other authors which render such an intense reading pleasure, allowing myself only to bask in her writing once a year - so much left to look forward to (and maybe you wrote or will write on your (re)reads of her, even more joy for me in the discovery...)


message 10: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Fede wrote: "Ta description de la protagoniste pourrait bien paraître dans un roman du Marquis, Ilse ;p"
Elle certainement aime les petits jeux épineux, Fede :p


message 11: by Fede (last edited Apr 20, 2018 09:32AM) (new)

Fede Je lui conseille de se faire embrasser dans les ronces :D


message 12: by Roswitha (new)

Roswitha Austen seems to have genuinely believed that virtue was intended to be its own reward, and all a woman had to do was be virtuous and that reward was inevitable. But the fact that she was able to create a rounded character like Lady Susan indicates she may entertained a few doubts.


message 13: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Silvia wrote: "I will read this so different Austen, (or is it?), what a way she had to uncover arquetypes she had. Unforgettable Lady Susan. Huh. Great review, I loved all you share, I feel as if I know her a bit."
She certainly had, Silvia, and at a certain moment I thought she would take revenge on Lady Susan, maybe a certain anger or envy inspired by a real person modelling for the wicked lady getting in her way, but no, she is much too smart for such a predictable narrative - I have read too little of her so far to tell if so different from the other novels, in form (the letters) maybe yes - for choice of the protagonist, also (just look at the woman's age, 35 already!). Thank you very much for your lovely comment, I am curious to hear your thoughts about it once you would get to it!


message 14: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Silvia wrote: "Sorry for the repetitive sentence. Writing from the dreaded phone."
O don't bother, Silvia, I gave up writing on the darn phone all together as always autocorrecting into the weirdest things :(


message 15: by Vessey (last edited Apr 20, 2018 01:20PM) (new)

Vessey Wow! I didn’t think Jane Austen could have such a protagonist! :) Maybe I should say antagonist. I’m intrigued. In answer to the point you make about her not being just someone worthy of judgment, that there are circumstances that, if not completely exonerating, at least add a shade of grey, that she is mostly a victim of her time, backed into corner, doing her best to survive…Well, sometimes it is not so much about the deed, but about the feeling behind it. I haven’t read this yet, so I base my opinion on what I got from you. Had she come off as someone showing remorse and feeling sad that she needs to resort to certain means, I may have given her more credit. But she seems to be happy with her ways, happy that she has an excuse to be the way she is , like one of those people who are never as happy as when they have “outsmarted� someone and stripped them of what they hold dear. She seems rather malicious to me. Thank you for this, as always, wonderful and thought-provoking review, my friend. Thanks to you I discovered a new layer of Jane Austen. :)


message 16: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat I don't know about everywhere, but you've been to lots of places haven't you Ilse? ;)


message 17: by Silvia (new)

Silvia Cachia Ilse, we are at a similar place in regards JA. I too have discovered her 'late', after being glued, -how you put it, :) to Spanish, American, and really after trying to reach to too many different traditions and genres that intrigue me. As re-reading her is equally good, I have binged on her lately and I plan to continue. (Maybe that's my excuse, I don’t want to stop. I need S&S, Lady Susan, Sandition, and the Juvenallia.) It looked to me LS wasn't her typical heroine, but Emma isn't either. About not going after her, I am amazed at her wit, and how advanced she seems, and that touch of the unexpected, -she's just genius. I truly didn't get it before, but now I do. I am glad to have you tampering into her riches as I am doing myself.


message 18: by flo (new)

flo I still have to read this Austen, so thank you for this great review. It's a perfect introduction to this novella, as it also sheds some more light on the deliciously complex mind of this woman. I honestly didn't have such great expectations, but now I look forward to reading this. :)


Beverly Wow! Stellar review Ilse! You got to the crux of the novel.


message 20: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Scarlett wrote: "O Ilse, this is such a delicious, vivacious review with elements exciting humoresque moments of unrestrained laughter as I am sitting here sipping my coffee, basking in the rays of sun grimacing at me from the window".
Thank you very much for your - as ever - so lovely response to this, Scarlett, which I am reading while enjoying the sun, the calm and singing birds in the garden, on one of those rare days of Spring delight in our often so grey and wet a region- the thought of your laughter putting a big smile on my face, thank you :). This lady is indeed quite a character - actually reminding me of someone I could not mention in decency ;p - and as you haven't met her yet, I am fairly sure she will amuse you when you do - it is a short novel, perfect for a beautiful evening in Spring :).


message 21: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Elie wrote: "Enchanting review. Seems like a fantastic self-help book for girls hunting for a husband."
Thank you, Elie - particularly helpful for girls happy with a not too bright one ;p).


message 22: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Lisa wrote: "Oh, that finishing quote is PERFECT! What a lovely review to find in my feed on the first day I can sit outside here on the North Pole (southern suburb!). I'll add it pronto."
Thank you, Lisa, happy to hear Spring is getting to you as well in the North:) ! You might find this short epistolary novel somewhat less rounded than her other novels you are reading this year, but the naughty titular character is quite entertaining, she would maybe nicely balance Austen's younger heroines for you :).


message 23: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Fede wrote: "Je lui conseille de se faire embrasser dans les ronces :D"
:D parfait! Quoting from a friend's review to type Lady Susan as alluringly as I can to you: 'The acidic, viper-like tongue of our main character has something in common with the scheming, self-absorbed Mme Merteuil' :).


message 24: by Katia (new)

Katia N Fantastic essay, Ilse! I have to confess - I've never read any Bronte properly, but I feel totally humbled by the idea that 19 year old girl could write with such skill about the destiny of an older woman! And, as usual, I really enjoy to see this novella through your eyes.

I even cannot imagine how the women of the past were feeling domintaed by male world. So something we might find scheming was probably the act of heroism:-) But equally, there was for example George Eliot who was very talented and visibly not bounded by conventions of the time.

Interesting discussion on the comments about the perception of age in the 19th century. I just wanted to add an example from Dostoyevsky. The "old lady- pawnbroker", whom Raskolnikov killed in 'Crime of punishment" apparently was 42! :-)


message 25: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Rose wrote: "Austen seems to have genuinely believed that virtue was intended to be its own reward, and all a woman had to do was be virtuous and that reward was inevitable. But the fact that she was able to create a rounded character like Lady Susan indicates she may entertained a few doubts."
Interesting point, Rose - like for most things we like to believe in, maybe there was some part of wishful thinking in hers with regard to rewarding virtuosity, of which she was aware? However I enjoyed reading S & S last year, I cannot deny I thought Lady Susan as a character more fascinating than the Dashwood sisters - but maybe that is simply the bias of age :).


message 26: by Henry (last edited Apr 22, 2018 05:42AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Henry Avila Wonderful review , I too enjoyed this different kind of book from Austen . A delicious voyage into 18th century misbehaviour ... great read...wish it was longer.


message 27: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Vessey wrote: "She seems to be happy with her ways, happy that she has an excuse to be the way she is , like one of those people who are never as happy as when they have “outsmarted� someone and stripped them of what they hold dear. She seems rather malicious to me."
Well, Vessey, I can only congratulate you on your astute analysis of the foul ways of the lady - you are spot on and that without reading the book! She is utterly malicious and takes great pleasure in outwitting her 'victims' (Another quote: 'There is exquisite pleasure in subduing an insolent spirit, in making a person predetermined to dislike acknowledge one’s superiority.'), while indeed I can understand some of her aims in the context in which she lives, she causes a lot of collateral damage just because she can and likes so, adding unnecessary suffering to others to reach her goals - which, as a character, makes her interesting ;). Thank you so much, as ever, my friend, for reading and posting your generous and insightful comment!


message 28: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Jan-Maat wrote: "I don't know about everywhere, but you've been to lots of places haven't you Ilse? ;)"
In case you are suggesting I never will make it to heaven, I didn't expect or hope so, Sir, so you are right I might have tried a few other places ;).


message 29: by Tara (new)

Tara You painted a truly vivid picture of Lady Susan with your delightfully illuminating review, Ilse. She sounds like a rather compelling character. Perhaps I’ll have to give Austen another chance :)


message 30: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Silvia wrote: "Ilse, we are at a similar place in regards JA. I too have discovered her 'late', after being glued, -how you put it, :) to Spanish, American, and really after trying to reach to too many different reach to too many different traditions and genres that intrigue me."
On a certain moment, I thought I would never manage to get out of France, Silvia - and then there are still so many classic French books left to read - one of the reasons we had great overviews on the highlights of French lit at school, on English lit it wasn't more than half a page, and I still feel like stumbling around in it clueless. I try not to binge-read (out of optimism that I will live long enough to permit myself only one a year ;p? ) but I understand the temptation very well (what you write comparing her heroines utterly tempting :)) and I am happy you find such delight in Austen's wit and esprit, like I do as well!


message 31: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Marita wrote: "A truly delightful review, Ilse. Thanks!"
Thank you for stopping by and your kind words, Marita! To me this short novel was a treat :).


message 32: by david (new)

david Wow, Ilse. Great, honest words. "knowing the game...but not setting the rules." Oh, and your last sentence (quote?) Where there is a disposition...just excellent stuff.


message 33: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Florencia wrote: "I still have to read this Austen, so thank you for this great review. It's a perfect introduction to this novella, as it also sheds some more light on the deliciously complex mind of this woman. I honestly didn't have such great expectations, but now I look forward to reading this. :)
Thanks a lot, Florencia - I didn't had any expectations at all on this (which is often helpful to appreciate a book for me ;p) so from the moment I learned from the first letter Lady Susan seemed a wandering widow I was pleasantly surprised it evolved not into a wallowing nor a simple all's well that ends well story :) - I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on the lady!


message 34: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Beverly wrote: "Wow! Stellar review Ilse! You got to the crux of the novel."
Thank you very much, Beverly, so nice of you to say so! Glad you also enjoyed reading on this wicked woman ;).


message 35: by Seemita (new)

Seemita Smashing review, Ilse! Your first paragraph tells me you should write your own book if you haven't already! Powerful, dazzling and effective! Lady Susan might have (genuinely) smiled on hearing that introduction :)


Helle Well, congratulations on being in such good epistolary form, Ilse! You've of course quite captured the venomous and delightful tone and topic of the book. Shove this into someone's face the next time they think Austen is a romantic and is all about ballrooms and dresses. I can't help wondering who on earth all these people were whom she used as models! We can only hope that she made ample use of her imagination as well.
Incidentally, apropos our little rencontre over Ali Smith recently, I read an interview with AS in which she was asked who her favourite literary heroine is, and to my absolute delight she said Emma Woodhouse, one of Austen's finest creations. I seem to detect that you haven't yet read Emma, so perhaps she might be allowed onto your to-read list? :-)


message 37: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Katia wrote: I feel totally humbled by the idea that 19 year old girl could write with such skill about the destiny of an older woman. I even cannot imagine how the women of the past were feeling dominated by male world. So something we might find scheming was probably the act of heroism:-) But equally, there was for example George Eliot who was very talented and visibly not bounded by conventions of the time. Interesting discussion on the comments about the perception of age in the 19th century. I just wanted to add an example from Dostoyevsky. The "old lady- pawnbroker", whom Raskolnikov killed in 'Crime of punishment" apparently was 42! :-) "
The old pawnbroker lady being 42, you make me laugh out loud, Katia, thank you, this I had entirely forgotten :). This perception of age in older times indeed quite intriguing in comparison with our current one, which such a dramatic increase in life expectancy in actually short time - if only thinking of our pension law made in 1944, pension set at 65 as at that moment the legislator knew most wouldn't live much longer, if reaching that age at all. Last year, I couldn't but chuckle at a character in Austen's Sense and Sensibility, depicted like he was with one foot in the grave and thus not a worthy candidate for (re)marriage, being already...35! So one could think Austen is more for younger people, but then one comes across this woman so insightfully pictured like you I am quite in awe for her skill at so young an age - the greatness of the writer showing in creating characters of all variety, in age, in gender, in features. If we think where we come from, in gender equality, books like this learn quite some lessons, and we don't have to go back in time that far, recalling that in quite some European countries like my own married women were legally treated like minors, having to obey their husbands until 1956...On Eliot I have to admit not knowing anything yet on her background, but what you write on her exceptionality in her times makes me eager to find out, as I am slowly getting closer to Middlemarch in my alphabetical reading-women-authors in 2018 - project :). Thank you very much for your thoughtful and generous comment dear Katia, very much appreciated!


message 38: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Henry wrote: "Wonderful review , I too enjoyed this different kind of book from Austen . A delicious voyage into 18th century misbehaviour ... great read...wish it was longer."
Thank you very much, Henry - I loved the way Austen contrasted utter but smart vice with virtuous, empathic behaviour here, and look forward to meet more of Austen's heroines, as I only read 3 of her novels so far...on Lady Susan I read that it is her only (anti)heroine who doesn't have to learn lessons on life anymore :).


message 39: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Tara wrote: "You painted a truly vivid picture of Lady Susan with your delightfully illuminating review, Ilse. She sounds like a rather compelling character. Perhaps I’ll have to give Austen another chance :)"
Thanks a bunch, Tara - if there is one thing Lady Susan shuns and loathes it is boredom, and that she wouldn't find by looking into the mirror :). This novel is maybe not considered in the league of her best works, but I admit I enjoyed reading this more than Sense & Sensibility, due to the entertaining villainess :).


message 40: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse david wrote: "Wow, Ilse. Great, honest words. "knowing the game...but not setting the rules." Oh, and your last sentence (quote?) Where there is a disposition...just excellent stuff."
Thanks a lot, david - you have just reminded me why I might generally not be that fond of parlour games, disliking to even try to master the rules :). That quote hit quite home to me...


message 41: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Seemita wrote: "Smashing review, Ilse! Your first paragraph tells me you should write your own book if you haven't already! Powerful, dazzling and effective! Lady Susan might have (genuinely) smiled on hearing that introduction :)
Thanks a ton for your lovely compliment, Seemita, however far too much praise my friend, pretty sure I wouldn't even try, as I would get bored from my own ramblings before having reached page three. I'll firmly stick to reading as much as I can:). O that wicked woman would have mercilessly laughed, at once detecting the onlooker's weak spots, as isn't an allergic reaction on her frivolous behaviour saying much about the one dismissing it, close to admiration in spite of one's will?


message 42: by J (new) - rated it 3 stars

J Mooi!


message 43: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Helle wrote: "Shove this into someone's face the next time they think Austen is a romantic and is all about ballrooms and dresses. I can't help wondering who on earth all these people were whom she used as models! We can only hope that she made ample use of her imagination as well.
Incidentally, apropos our little rencontre over Ali Smith recently, I read an interview with AS in which she was asked who her favourite literary heroine is, and to my absolute delight she said Emma Woodhouse, one of Austen's finest creations. I seem to detect that you haven't yet read Emma, so perhaps she might be allowed onto your to-read list? :-)"

Thank you so much, Helle! She might have been a very keen observer of the people around her, her intuition and imagination for what ate the human heart seemed even better developed. Such characters as Lady Susan indeed perfect to modify a certain image that Austen might have gotten from - no less entertaining - costumed films :). And on Emma, thank you for sharing that wonderful Ali Smith moment, she is firmly on my to-read list (at least the one in my mind) and your opinion she is such a fine creation will get me to her rather sooner than later!


message 44: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse J wrote: "Mooi!"
Dankjewel, J!


Kalliope What enjoyment reading this review, Ilse, and how well you expose Lady Susan's prospects after fleshing out her idiosyncratic abilities.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this book.


message 46: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Kalliope wrote: "What enjoyment reading this review, Ilse, and how well you expose Lady Susan's prospects after fleshing out her idiosyncratic abilities.I thoroughly enjoyed reading this book."
Thank you very much, Kalliope! What a delight it was to read this book. I thought Austen's finesse in creating this cunning character marvellous. Noticing your five stars, I am ver happy we are on the same page about it!


Fergus, Weaver of Autistic Webs Incredible. Another one for my wife, Ilse. Thanks for a beautifully keen and sensitive review!


message 48: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Thanks a lot for reading and for the lovely compliment, Fergus! I hope your wife will enjoy it as well and will read a few of the hilarious lines in this aloud to you so you could chuckle about it together :).


Ilana (illi69) Wonderful review Ilse! It’s been five years since I’ve read it and it has faded from memory but I recognize the Lady Susan Jane Austen described from your words beyond a doubt. Now I really MUST make a point of rereading this novella. Her wickedness is simply delicious!


message 50: by Ilse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ilse Many thanks for reading and leaving such a kind comment, Ilana! I agree on how juicy and enjoyable Austen portrays Lady Susan's wickedness - having noticed you are re-reading it at the moment, I wish you a delightful revisit!


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