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Mia Crysler's Reviews > King's Cage

King's Cage by Victoria Aveyard
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did not like it



Me reading this book:




After one semi-intelligible novel in Red Queen and one genuine flop in Glass Sword, King’s Cage was going to be 26-year-old Victoria Aveyard’s Hail Mary on the series that was supposed to be the “next big YA thing� but has been a painful lesson in hype versus realistic expectation. Does it succeed in doing so: I so badly wanted to say she turned things around but she didn’t � and that’s putting it nicely.

Here’s the thing that I’m still wondering about with Victoria Aveyard � how did things go so wrong for her? I mean, she had it all: HarperTeen and Epic Reads carefully controlled the reviews of the book by pre-leasing copies to targeted BookTubers whose opinion they could count on to be positive; the marketing campaign, if anything, was maybe too aggressive, with people hyping up Red Queen all over the place � on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram � and calling it the next Hunger Games, Divergent, Selection, and that everyone should buy it.

And we were like � Sure Thing Entitled White People! We Believe You!




I can’t remember a release as advertising-intense as this since Divergent was out and it worked that time round so then how, exactly, did it all torpedo in Aveyard’s face and not turn her into the Suzanne Collins success she was constructed to be by her publisher? The odds were in her favour. She had plenty of high-powered connections; she breezed casually straight to a publishing and movie deal with barely any effort at all; she had it all. BookTuber reviews are pretty good at swaying public opinion and masking any problems of a book by pillowing the internet with praise, so I never expected to see 1 star and 2 star reviews piling up on the main comments page.

So� what the hell happened?

I can chalk up to only a few things. The first, Veronica Roth entered the scene with the very first Hunger Games-inspired book and by the time Victoria Aveyard published that door had clearly and loudly shut. The second, Aveyard accidentally compared her work to be on par with Game of Thrones, an act in itself which is just setting yourself up for failure because then people are automatically disappointed when it’s nowhere even close. Beyond that, I think people are just tired of reading Game of Thrones and Hunger Games knock-offs no matter how good the publicity departments claim they are. I think YA publishing is finally starting to come out of its coma and realise that they have GOT TO STOP pushing the same derivative plot before we all tear our eyes out.

And finally, Victoria is kind of� elitist� There’s a line between being proud and being stuck-up and I think Aveyard crossed that line without meaning to. And in a world that is becoming incredibly impossible to separate the artist from the art, Aveyard tends to come across as elitist. Next to the release of Red Queen Aveyard released an article on her blog () that didn’t really help that image.




But her personality really became even more apparent when she started lashing out to critics on ŷ and caused probably the biggest awkward silence in book reviewer history.




To be honest, I gave her a pass on that one because she was new and I can understand people lashing out on what people say on goodreads. But she has to understand that criticism is a part of being in the entertainment industry and I can tell you for a fact that most of the reviews on goodreads are tame in comparison to what’s out there.

If you can’t handle what people say on goodreads and you’re a writer then man you’re in the wrong industry because there are going to be people that say things much worse in the future. You shouldn’t be lashing out at these people. You should be using goodreads as a practice ground. Plus a lot of criticisms from people � who weren’t paid by HarperTeen to give it five or four stars � are pretty valid, and if Aveyard had listen to one or two of their comments I feel this series really could have been pulled up from its death-spiral. In response to a lot of fair criticism, Aveyard just doubled-down and placed the blame on piracy, ARCS, and 1 star rogue reviewers which is insane because on average five star reviews outnumber 1 star reviews about 60, 000 to one.






Some people were supposed to hate it because art is supposed to be subjective. It’s only worth making when there’s a plurality of opinions, good and bad. And it is possible that it’s not quite as good as you think it is: Harper Collins is not known for having the most on-the-job editorial staff. (Check out the Continent by Kiera Drake scandal if you don’t believe me.)


I’m currently completing my BFA at USC as well and just for clarity � I’m a woman � and I cannot stand it when girl screenwriters in my class go, “Male writers can’t write women.� And my response was, “That’s funny the last script you turned in the lead character had sex with the chiselled ripped-up doctor by page three and just talked about it all the way after. Meanwhile the black guy over there had his female black lesbian throw a guy through a window on page 1.�

I have a feeling Aveyard probably belongs to that clique of writers that believe because a man wrote it it should be set on fire. She’s constantly bashing actors like Tom Hanks and other male screenwriters. (Don’t get this one: The thing is, she’s a screenwriter as well, someone who wants to work in Hollywood. Did, like, no one tell her that pissing off one of the big-name actors or people she could get a job from was, like, I don’t know � a good way to never eat a hot meal ever again?)


There seems to be this growing fury and vindictive agenda of women writers pitting themselves against male writers, especially if the men catch a break. Why do that to people who don’t know you and have no idea who you are and have worked probably just as hard for their big break? If there are showrunners like Shonda Rhimes then there’s no excuse why no one else can be like her. And FYI, maybe there’d be more things like female producers and directors if they didn’t keep immaturely dropping out of Hollywood over “creative differences�.


Not to mention Kathleen Kennedy’s New York Time’s article a few months back that Star Wars doesn’t owe men anything, which is just a cruel thing to say—why does one group’s success hinge on another group’s complete eradication and extinction? One of my favourite movie critics, Grace Randolph, made a very insightful and thorough video here if you’d like to see it: .


I totally believe in sexism in the film industry but heckling people over Twitter who have gone further into the movie industry than you doesn’t really do much to fix the problem. If you want to change it you have to be productive. Work towards your own success. Write the stories you want to see and hire the people you want to see. Don’t knock male writers who have worked just as hard as you and perhaps harder to get their big break in the screenwriting business just because they’re men.


Just had to throw that out of the way before I got into the review.

Whew! Time to get in to the novel.

I didn’t realise I drifted so far off topic.


Sorry my peeps!


My major problem with this series is its glaring inconsistency. I think Aveyard is probably much suited to television than she is to blockbusters, because though she easily get’s that whole laying down the track for an oncoming train element of TV writing, this same ability really destroys any cohesiveness of her novel, where she manipulates time and events on the fly to suit her writing.




There are moments where you feel she’s changed the entire behaviour, attitude, and abilities of a character to service the plot and her endgame. For instance, in this book she says Mare was uneducated and how that lack of education is what keeps the Reds down in the dust, but in the first book when Shade sent a letter to her family she was the one who read it aloud.

And like Sarah J. Mass, Aveyard suffers profusely from what I call “Quotablity Syndrome�. With Sarah J. Mass I think it’s probably because she’s accustomed to fan-fiction (sometimes fan-fiction authors are hit and miss), but with Aveyard I think her problem originates with imagining every scene spoken aloud in the teaser trailer for the movie that Universal Studios has not even talked about. By that I mean that she is constantly focused on ensuring the words and passages sound euphonic, rather really understanding what she’s saying or taking a step back and realizing how dumb her character looks saying it. It’s what’s made Mare insufferable in both books. Here are some of my favourites from the past two books if you don’t believe me:

Glass Sword:

If I am a sword, I am a sword made of glass, and I feel myself beginning to shatter.

Anyone, anything, can betray anyone. Even your own heart.



And the romance:





This is always a huge problem for female writers. I see this all the time in class and when screenwriters and authors get defensive. They go: How dare you ship my characters the novel isn’t about romance! That is so sexist! And then I’m like: Dude, if you didn’t want shipping to happen then why did you have the main character make out with both the brothers? Unless you suffer from amnesia or are slightly unconscious at the helm of your laptop, you wrote that love triangle into the book Aveyard and it’s too late to change it now. If you didn’t want it to be about romance then don’t have them kiss. Have Mare be asexual or something! Don’t even bring it up! Make the brothers totally unattractive or that she’s too distracted with her situation, but when Mare spends every couple of pages tripping over these boys Mary Sue-style don’t expect people to not have readers ask you about the romance! You put it in your bloody book! I can see she was trying to make the novel like Reign from the CW, but it backfired and for some reason she’s not interested in it anymore. A pure sign of ill-plotting on her part. To be fair, Aveyard’s not alone. Female writers always trip themselves up on the romance. I think it’s just a habit. One that Aveyard is yet to break.


My feelings on Mare: ...I got nothing...



What I imagine must be that poor rebellion’s feelings on Mare at this point in the story and we're pretty much on the same page:




Yes. We get it already. You're imprisoned. After reading most of Aveyard’s oeuvre I wasn’t surprised to find that Mare continued being her hundred-watt-Mary-Sue old self. Aveyard has mechanized her to whine and complain every few pages, and say she is a bad-ass despite there being an enormous lack of evidence to support that theory.




Lastly, the plagiarism. Ah. This is a weird one. I’ve seen tonnes of more reviewers on ŷ, of late, start to actually call authors out on it, which is great to finally start seeing. I think that to call something inspired instead of plagiarised is just changing the label to something more socially acceptable but it’s essentially the same thing. To be clear, Aveyard's work is not a heavy amalgamation of research and historical elements deftly woven into a fantasy threat like Martin's work.



If that was the case then I wouldn't have had a problem but there were some serious moments where I felt that it was a very narrow margin between plagiarism and not-plagiarism. I was surprised to see people finally call Veronica Roth out on it since she’s been pretty much immune her whole career. In Aveyard’s case, I think the plagiarism is pretty baseless; to me it’s not really plagiarism but rather really thick imitation of two novels: The Hunger Games and Game of Thrones, which are all heavily embedded in her work—more like plastered all over—but in the kind of way that leads you to believe she thought she could make a shit tonne of money if she only changed stuff slightly around and fed it into a book about teenagers.

I think it's sad because this act alone really destroys books when you write by someone else's voice and imagination. In class they gave us this quote that I kept thinking about:



And it's true in this day and age originality sells above all else because people are tired of the same circulating plot which is why I think I just couldn't plug into King's Cage. With King's Cage, it just can't escape the gravity of its creative influences - unlike so many other books that can take the same idea but steer it down a whole different alleyway of implications.

There were just too many uncomfortably close moments where I was thinking to myself, That reminds me of something. And it wasn't just this novel but in Glass Sword there was the very glaring Peeta and Katniss bread reference with the coin where my jaw literally hit the floor—was she honestly stealing that scene from the Hunger Games. I mean…really! Really! What is YA these days, fan-fiction? [Scene: I remember the burdened boy who gave me a silver coin when I was nothing. With that one gesture he changed my future, and destroyed his own.] I think I just can’t forgive any more YA authors that steal work from the Hunger Games because I’m just fed up. Can people at least steal passages from a franchise I don’t read every Christmas? It's "not plagiarism" exactly, but it's not "originality" either, which makes it just awkward for me because I can't help think on some sort of spectrum that it's not entirely "the right thing" either.




I think this series is pretty dead in the water. Aveyard might have started off aiming high but it’s sunk to gliding, passionless mediocrity at this point. It’s lost a lot of its original WOW-factor. What’s sad about this series is what I’m finding sad about a lot of YA books these days. Good idea but poor execution and bad characters. This book, in my view, could have easily have scored a movie deal back before it was published but now I can understand why they never greenlit. First impressions are everything these days and Mare has just done too much damage to doctor at this point; and based on its sales it’s doing nowhere near the numbers to power a box office solely on its brand power.

You might have heard that the movie is being made. To be clear: the movie is ‘IN DEVELOPMENT� which means that Aveyard is trying to channel as much buzz as she can by telling everyone they are making it. But with there having been no news in almost three years, Universal’s packed slate with Fast and Furious 8, Jurassic World 2, and a plethora of other movies lined up, I think Universal has probably passed by now. After all, Universal is one of the few companies that can challenge Disney for a seat in the billion dollar club; and I don’t see them jeopardising their outstanding reputation for a YA novel when book adaptations have shown to be pretty financially unsuccessful these days (just look at how the Divergent series died � and Aveyard is repped by the same literary agency that reps Veronica Roth so there’s probably that conflict of interest for the studio execs).

Can this series be saved? I honestly don't know why but I'm going to pray that the 4th book is the charm here and keep my fingers crossed. Even if this series has bombed I'll be interested to see what projects Aveyard starts in the future.
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Reading Progress

Finished Reading
February 2, 2017 – Shelved

Comments Showing 1-50 of 50 (50 new)

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message 1: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler Aw thanks, Rach.


message 2: by Norah (new)

Norah Una Sumner Fantastic and insightful review. Well done!


message 3: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler Thanks Norah. You guys are so nice.


message 4: by Leanna (new) - added it

Leanna I love your line about criticism. It's true what they say: the best criticism you get are people who are not your friends and are telling you what you don't want to hear but need to hear to get better.


message 5: by Elias (last edited Feb 07, 2017 02:24PM) (new)

Elias I hate this series too and agree with every criticism you make of this dreadful series and author, especially in its blatant plagiarism of The Hunger Games and, to a lesser extent, Game of Thrones as well as X-Men, and this article is extremely intelligent and well-researched. I do think that the random jab at white people was unnecessary (especially if you are white)-- diss Trump supporters instead; not all whites are Conservatives!-- and the gif from Easy A gives me PTSD of sitting through Easy A. Also, while I know that this is purely unintentional, it's insulting to The Hunger Games by mentioning it in the same sentence as Divergent and The Selection and Kathleen Kennedy is a genius. Still, those minor gripes aside, this is one of the best reviews I've read on this site in ages.


JAMIE @elias. That's pretty much all booktubers are. And OMG a diss against white people? How will we survive! And check your facts, the average POC income is $5, 677, one twentieth of white Americans and life expectancy is 74.3 in comparison to 78.6 for whites. We've been entitled and privileged for a while. If it wasn't the case there'd be one black BookTuber with over a hundred thousand subscribers. And if you get PTSD from sitting through that movie you've pretty much disproved your whole argument for the entitled thing. (That was also Joseph E Stiglitz's Price of Inequality - Noble Prize winner for economics)


JAMIE Not that I don't agree with you that the tone of the review could've been slightly changed. I think she was trying to make a joke.


message 8: by Anne (new) - rated it 1 star

Anne Lackley I agree Elias, I haven't seen a review as well constructed as this for a while. It was a good read. I have to admit I've put King's Cage on the backburner for a bit.


message 9: by Connor (new)

Connor Ferguson THANK YOU FOR THIS. The characterization of Mare is so all over the place, and I could never take her seriously.

And I forgot how she got her writing gig, so that article was a refresher. As an aspiring writer myself I don't want to belittle anyone's road to success, because that's an awesome, serendipitous break that she got, but I feel like there wasn't enough development and/or direction present. And you can't just say "I want to write the next big YA" and have it happen. A lot of people forget this, but YA is capable of being intelligent, heartfelt narratives about coming-of-age with magic and action (Maggie Stiefvater's "The Raven Cycle") without being an amalgamation of tropes and cliches and angst.


therese ˃ᴗ˂ wow best review about this book ever


message 11: by Elias (last edited Feb 08, 2017 05:27AM) (new)

Elias JAMIE wrote: "@elias. That's pretty much all booktubers are. And OMG a diss against white people? How will we survive! And check your facts, the average POC income is $5, 677, one twentieth of white Americans an..."

I'm actually an active member of Black Lives Matter and am fully aware of all of the facts that you've stated. I was just saying that the comment felt like it came out of nowhere and just wanted to point out that I am not a Conservative and that it's wrong to think we're all like that. People assume that just because I'm white, I voted for Orange Joffrey when that couldn't be further from the truth. Also, the PTSD comment was a joke referring to my dislike of Easy A. Seriously, everybody else loves this movie and I feel like there's something wrong with me.


Chelsea ✨Arielle’s Nebular Ally and Team Acrux✨ This is a great review...and I commend you for writing it. I honestly loved the first two, I am not ashamed to say it, but this book has hurt my heart immensely with the repetitiveness and lack of back up for what she has been trying to sell.

I am at 60%, still GREATLY hoping it turns around for me, but I loved this review, regardless of what my feelings are in the end, and I am glad SOMEONE said it.

Once again, great review, Mia.


message 13: by Jo (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jo Did you get an ARC?
Because as far as I know it just released on Feb 7, while your review was documented as Feb 2


message 14: by Demi (new)

Demi This review ended white authors and the publishing industry just like that I'm on the floor


message 15: by Demi (new)

Demi Connecting the story to the actual background of the author and how the series was sold is so important, this was never about writing a good story it was about making the money back to pay her off her hefty student loans and get her name out


message 16: by Demi (new)

Demi and in the end, her writing showed it. the publishing industry can be as icky as Hollywood, and this series only further cemented that


message 17: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler @Jo. Yeah I picked it up from my local WaterStones early. I do think there was a blanket embargo but I don't think my store got the memo. It happened in a lot of places across the country. And @elias I get what you're saying. (It was supposed to be a joke. I do think white privileged is a load of BS. Some white people live in horrible conditions, especially in coal country. I'll fix the white thing later.) I still don't hold Kathleen Kennedy in much regard for female directors when she claims none of them have the “right skills� when Colin Trevorrow—before Jurassic World—had only ever directed a Sundance film that got mediocre reviews. And her reluctant to place women of colour in major roles in the Star Wars franchise grinds my gears. (She's hired three British Brunettes for all of the new Star Wars films! How do you even do that without someone in the office going � I think you may have a fetish developing here!) What? Do little Asian girls and black girls not get to join in with the other kinds on the playground? I'm not attacking you it's just how I feel about Kennedy. She claims to be all for affirmative action but one black person in a sea of white people is not enough - I know that sounds really irritating to hear. I hate saying it, too. It makes me sound like a brat.

And thanks @Demi. Yeah Ava Duvernay is really insightful about that stuff, wait until you get into cinema segregation and you find that movies are often rigged to fail, or nickel-and-dimed advertising-wise so no-one even knows the movie’s coming out. The same thing is happening with publishers. My favourite publisher is Baen it’s an indie science-fiction publisher but a lot of the books are pretty good.

And that's the problem with both the movie and the publishing industry right now. There's now this really vindictiveness to people who haven't gone to the right school, taken the right classes, whereas once you just needed to have a really good book, a really intense need to tell a story, and a lot of effort. I'm not saying she didn't work hard for those connections. But like Betsy Devos, this book was clearly published because of its connections and not because it was a good book � it has massive narrative collapses that arise mostly because of Aveyard’s indecision. If there had been a little more work in the actual novel, it really wouldn't have mattered to me.


message 18: by Elias (new)

Elias Mia wrote: "@Jo. Yeah I picked it up from my local WaterStones early. I do think there was a blanket embargo but I don't think my store got the memo. It happened in a lot of places across the country. And @eli..."

Well, you've succeeded at sounding irritating (I won't use the term "brat" because it's kinda sexist). White privilege is very, very real, particularly as far as the criminal justice system is concerned-- read The New Jim Crow or watch The 13th for more information. Just because I'm against white-shaming doesn't mean that I don't think white privilege exists. Also, the Star Wars movies have become incredibly diverse and should be celebrated for really stepping it forward, not condemned for not going even further. Look at Rogue One: we have a female main character (Jyn), a Latino (Cassian), an Asian LGBT couple (Chirrut and Baze), a Pakistani (Bodhi) a black guy (Saw Gerrera) and a droid (K-2SO). I should note that I'm aware that Latin America, Asia and Pakistan don't exist in the Star Wars universe; I'm referring to the actors' ethnicities.


message 19: by Mia (last edited Feb 18, 2017 02:31AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler Aw Elias I'm so glad you let me know. And yet I somehow give zero fucks ;) White privledge is a thing but I thought you were a member of the alt-right and didn't feel like arguing. Because you've succeeded at looking like one. Glad I can fullout now. I've seen you attacking other reviews and I got no idea what your problem is. Here's the thing about inclusion: you let everybody in the room. You don't say I'll let 'some' of you but not the rest of you. An Asian LGBT couple give me a break. Did they kiss? Did they say I love you. No. It was again "stomachable" diversity that no one would be "offended" by. The simple act of our existence is still classified in Hollywood as offensive, and that mentality, not how much inclusion there is, is what matters the most. And the lack of inclusion speaks to that mentality.

The fact that Kennedy still has to question our humanity, enter that realm of argument and counterargument with herself about whether we should have rights and be represented, by accepting that presumption of legitimacy--that we don't have a right to be seen because we're offensive--allows the film industry to continue its racist exclusion policies.

That's the thing that drives me nuts sometimes about people like you. LGBT, black people, women of anf men of colour - We're always told wait your turn. We're making some progress. Look how great that is? Oops don't go too fast there or you might destroy the earth and everything will fall into civil war. (This really isn't for those white people that are allies we cool and these rants usually offend I get it.) I won't apologise for wanting things to speed up to the different races I see everytime I go to class or work. I'm sorry if that somehow offends you elias. I have no idea why. But your can take your entire rant about white privilege to a black woman and go fuck yourself. I hope very much that was brat enough for you. :)


message 20: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler And elias ur account is set on private which probably means a couple of possible things 1) You have another account on here and use this one to attack people or 2) Your either Aveyard or one of her stalker fans. God I heard of this happening but didn't think it was true. I'm just deleting the private accounts now.


message 21: by Elias (new)

Elias I detest Red Queen. Your logic is faulty.


message 22: by Elias (last edited Feb 12, 2017 12:04PM) (new)

Elias It would be great if our party didn't have a civil war and let the right get away with things. And honestly I had no idea that my profile was private. Finally: Never. Call. Me. Alt-right. Again. I'm all for inclusion but I'm not turning on Star Wars because they still haven't worked in someone from EVERY group while they're paving the way for inclusiveness in movies. When a major franchise includes a trans character I will cheer for joy but I won't hate every book and movie that doesn't. I love my fandoms and don't believe in abandoning them because the hyper-sensitive online mafia wants me to. We should concentrate on real issues like fixing up the criminal justice system, stopping police brutality and ending climate change rather than attacking our pop culture.


message 23: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler No one said anything about abandoning them elias. I just don't worship them blindly and unthinkingly with the kind of praise that prevents me from didactically dissecting them. And in the words of Obi-One Kenobi: "This is not the alt-right meeting you are looking for. Move along now." And for someone who's worried by hyper-sensitive online media you were triggered by a review on goodreads. A site about books. You look more of snowflake right now than me.


message 24: by Elias (new)

Elias Mia wrote: "No one said anything about abandoning them elias. I just don't worship them blindly and unthinkingly with the kind of praise that prevents me from didactically dissecting them. And in the words of ..."

Look at the Doctor Who fandom. I'm the last one left. The Doctor Who fandom is ME now. I'm literally the only one still watching because Tumblr switched from being about fandoms to being about witch hunts.


message 25: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler In my experience if something can be destroyed with a few tweets and tumblr posts than its following wasn't very solidified to begin with. And Doctor Who kind of fell of the tracks after Matt Smith and David Tennant were replaced with...that new guy. I know I stopped caring after them.


message 26: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler It's true people do look for excuses to hate things but I find that feeling in fandom usually only arises from poor and mediocre narrative choices. Tonnes of people hate on Game of Thrones on tumblr and that hasn't had its success shredded.


message 27: by Elias (new)

Elias Mia wrote: "In my experience if something can be destroyed with a few tweets and tumblr posts than its following wasn't very solidified to begin with. And Doctor Who kind of fell of the tracks after Matt Smith..."

"That new guy" is Peter Capaldi. They fired him.


message 28: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler Thanks OC. I'm black but I get pissed when someone white writes something good and works really hard and then is totally obliterated for it. You should see how fucking annoying that gets at USC.


message 29: by Ella (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ella Craddock Was this review just an excuse to attack the author? I wanted to know what the book was like not your opinion on the author's advertisements.


message 30: by Mia (last edited Feb 15, 2017 11:48PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler Might I suggest reading the book yourself than Ella. You can't discuss art without discussing the artist responsible. By the logic that the author doesn't matter than Birth of A Nation would have been a blockbuster despite Nate Parker's creepy/incriminating rape scandal. And I talk about Aveyard because I was trying to deduct what she was trying to do with Mare because it clearly didn't work. I think she could be a great writer. But she's lazy. She doesn't think things through on a narrative plot context.

Demonstrated by exhibit A:


Could you imagine a Pulitzer-winning author doing that during the middle of a series? I couldn't. And it's this kind of blasé sort of I'll-fix-it-later attitude what has really impacted these books. And I understand Aveyard, like many of us, is anchored to her creative influences but great artists have enough individuality to go in their own direction. I didn't feel that with her work. But, to be fair, I have felt that way about a lot of other books lately.

Yes it's Young Adult and yes it's for teenagers, but if an author doesn't take their work seriously than why should I?


message 31: by owa (new)

owa This is such an insightful and thorough review! Thank you. Do you think we're moving away from this trend of 'generic/populist' YA?


message 32: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler Aw thanks Luna. I honestly don't think so. The YA market pretty much developed this way with Twilight and The Hunger Games and until literary agents and publishers start looking for original content and new voices I don't think it will changed. Cycles of creative inaction are pretty hard to break. But it will take literary agents looking for original stories. For instance, New Leaf Literary is among those agencies that has made its money representing authors that copycat the successful megahits, and most agencies will go where they think the money is not where it's going to be.


Rachael Marsceau Loved this review. I'm on pg 240 and yawning. This actually entertained me!


message 34: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler Aw thanks Rachel!


message 35: by Highwind (new) - added it

Highwind I'm amazed people say the series is a failure when every book hits NYT bestseller list. I'm not defending it btw, just wondering. Looks like a big commercial success to me.


message 36: by Cara (new) - rated it 1 star

Cara The New York Times best sellers has been criticized by authors, publishers, book industry executives, and others for not providing an accurate accounting of true best-seller status.

These criticisms have been ongoing ever since the list originated. They've known since the 1940s found that best-seller lists were a poor indicator of sales, since they were based on misleading data and were only measuring fast sales. A book that never makes the list can actually outsell books on the best-seller list. This is because the best-seller list reflects sales in a given week, not total sales. Thus, one book may sell heavily in a given week, making the list, while another may sell at a slower pace, never making the list, but selling more copies over time. Which HarperTeen does pump a lot of money into their distribution their one of the few companies that can afford distribution. Then you have other things like double-counting, sometimes self-fulfilling prophecy because people see it on the NYT and go - wow everyone is reading that I might read it it must be good - and then the Times provides booksellers with a form containing a list of books it believes might be bestsellers, to check off, with an alternative "Other" column to fill in manually. It's hard to explain but it's like a voting card. It's similar to how indie films don't often have the power to make a box office despite being beautifully written and shot.


message 37: by Elias (new)

Elias Highwind wrote: "I'm amazed people say the series is a failure when every book hits NYT bestseller list. I'm not defending it btw, just wondering. Looks like a big commercial success to me."

It certainly is a big commercial success. That doesn't mean that I have to like it.


message 38: by Highwind (new) - added it

Highwind Elias wrote: "Highwind wrote: "It certainly is a big commercial success. That doesn't mean that I have to like it."
Of course, it's not related. I can't say I liked it that much myself. I'm just curious about these discussions (saw a lot of them) and it seemed to me like people thought the books' sales also declined. Which surprised me because of the NYT list thing.

Cara wrote: "The New York Times best sellers has been criticized by authors, publishers, book industry executives, and others for not providing an accurate accounting of true best-seller status."
Thanks! That's pretty fascinating. I thought it was a straightforward measure of commercial success (and awesome promo too).


message 39: by Olivia (new)

Olivia Then...why did you read it if you so hated it..?


message 40: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler Olivia sorry you might not have seen my earlier response about responding to private accounts. A lot of fake random ones have trolled me so I just don't respond to them anymore. Part of me wonders if it's just the author. And as a consumer of art I'm allowed to read it. I paid for it. And that money is going directly into Aveyard's bank account so it's a win-win. Her work suffers from a lot of problems. She can either learn from it. Or continue making the same mistakes. Either way she wins.


message 41: by Lennie (new)

Lennie Wynker Cara wrote: "The New York Times best sellers has been criticized by authors, publishers, book industry executives, and others for not providing an accurate accounting of true best-seller status.

These criticis..."


That explains a LOT! There's so many best-sellers in YA that I could never understand how they could have made it to the top of the list. At times, I wondered if it wasn't a marketing thing. Saying that a book is a NYT best-seller even thought it isn't because nobody was going to check.


message 42: by J.A. (new) - added it

J.A. Ironside What a great review - thorough, reflective and insightful. And you also put into words what I haven't really managed to articulate about this series. Good stuff.


message 43: by Mia (new) - rated it 1 star

Mia Crysler J.A. wrote: "What a great review - thorough, reflective and insightful. And you also put into words what I haven't really managed to articulate about this series. Good stuff."

thankyou so much!


Callie This review is everything I want to say and more.


Ragini That is all good. But the first book described mare in olive skin, no?


piper These are amazing points oml


message 47: by Elias (new)

Elias Victoria Aveyard is an INDUSTRY PLANT.


Mercedes This is so eloquent and insightful


Elizabeth Coker I enjoyed your entire review, but the one thing that nailed it on the head is exactly what thought I had while reading this book� wait, doesn’t this sound eerily similar to GoT…�. Plagiarism, lack of creativity, trying to ride on the coattails of another very accomplished author� idk, I’m no literary scholar, but so cringey! Lost all credibility to me instantly.


message 50: by a rose ♥︎ (new)

a rose ♥︎ Your review has officially persuaded me not to read this book. And thank you for pointing all of this stuff out, you took time out of your day to do it, and for that I applaud you. I definitely enjoyed reading an actually well thought out 1 star review with valid points and arguments, rather than simply a rant that gives no clue of whether or not I should read the book.


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