Lisa's Reviews > Devils
Devils
by
by

“At the inquest our doctors absolutely and emphatically rejected all idea of insanity.�
I open with the closing lines, on the brink of exhaustion, not sure of my own state of sanity.

Reading Dostoyevsky is a bit like spending time with close family members with a diametrically opposed worldview: I love them dearly, unconditionally, but I don’t LIKE them at all.
As I am slowly working my way through Dostoyevsky’s works, starting with the whisperings of a man taking notes from the underground, moving to the murderer Raskolnikov who manages to get my sympathy even though I loathe his actions and motives, and and then over to a holy fool like Myshkin, who enrages me completely with his ignorant arrogance and destructive power, I have now made the acquaintance of the Devils.
If Raskolnikov hypnotised me, and Myshkin made me curse, the Devils have a slower, yet even more powerful impact on my mental equilibrium. While I was reading the previous novels in a frenzy, without any interruptions, I had to take a prolonged break in the middle of this one. I just could not stomach the account of the rape of a child, and the subsequent “confession� of the crime by Stavrogin to a monk. The position of the monk regarding the situation was of such evil that I felt I couldn’t read on. I thought I could deal with the Russian nationalist and orthodox mindset by now, but that was too much. The girl committed suicide out of a religious panic, believing she had “killed God� by being raped.
And the representative for the church, thrilled by the confession and completely without pity for the child, tells the murderer that he will be forgiven, if only he suffers enough to please god. First of all, what kind of a god is that, who encourages suffering, even finds delight and pleasure in it, but completely ignores the victim? What if I told my child that it is acceptable to brutally assault somebody as long as I see that he suffers afterwards - that the crime is actually laudable because it gives me a welcome opportunity to watch my child suffer duly? Where is the educational police to arrest me for such parenting?
Second, the priest feels that the crime is “ridiculous� and “inelegant�, and not bloody enough to be interesting. He worries the murderer will turn into a laughing-stock if he publishes his confession. And also, the crime is far too common to raise any eyebrows.
That scene made me close the book and not re-open it for weeks. This may be Dostoyevsky, and he may be a genius, but I have a limit to what I can take in. And I am not willing to suffer to please any sadistic, patriarchal, sexually biased and oppressive god. Self-sacrifice is not a virtue in my worldview, it is a vice which generates violence - often resulting in horrible crimes committed against innocent people without connection to the fanatics who believe they are being religious heroes by promoting suffering. The characters in Dostoyevsky’s world act like immature young boys feeling neglected and drawing negative attention to themselves to be seen by the god-father figure. “Look at me, god!� they yell. “Look what I am doing! And I am doing it all for you! I want to be seen! It is all about ME! My confession is to be read publicly, so people talk about ME! And it is ME suffering, not that inelegant little girl, who was driven mad. We are not talking about her, it is MY suffering we are looking at. MY right to be seen as a hero in pain for the sake of penitence! The crime is just the necessary prerequisite to earn the right to the GREATEST penitence ever. Never mind a girl had to die…�
While taking a break, I continue to think about the novel, though, for such is his genius. And I come to the conclusion that I am trying to square a circle when I want to reconcile the evil characters and the theological idea. Isn’t religious commitment supposed to be a force for good? That was my question, and it is wrong.
Finally I realise that my premise is wrong, and that Dostoyevsky’s sincere belief works so well mainly because he believes in an evil, unfair god wanting suffering and complete submission, - a theology that isn’t intrinsically good at all (according to my worldview, which of course is personal, not universal!).
It is not good. It just is. Period. Once I have dumped my connection between ethics and religion, and accepted the reality of the characters, I can read on.
And I am happy I did. One of the most dramatic episodes in novelistic history must be the fête organised to benefit governesses in Russia - and what a spectacle it is. The Romantic poet, dramatically bidding a farcically narcissistic farewell to his audience, vowing never to write again, stumbles over people’s sense that romantic feelings and allegorical language are a thing of the past. The fête, which is planned more with the aim to celebrate the organisers than to support a good cause (much like any celebrity fundraising event for charity nowadays!) is a complete fiasco. The Devils at work!
Who are the devils?
They are a group of radical socialists, trying to impose another kind of absolute truth on a confused and explosive nation, foreshadowing the Russian Revolution and its inhumane aspects perfectly. As a document of historical processes, I found Devils to be incredibly enlightening, as it shows why Russia was incapable of transforming a patriarchal tyranny into a liberal democracy. The new ideas are propagated in the same religiously exclusive way as the old doctrine. There is one absolute truth, which all have to live by, and it will be forced upon the people by using violence. Socialist or tsarist power - the question is only which party is militarily stronger. Both have their blind followers and their holy dogma to keep people on track. In both cases, (self-)sacrifice is the motor which drives the destructive action. In both cases, the tirade in the Revelation about being spewed out by god (your chosen infallible idea!) if you are lukewarm (read: moderate and reasonable!) guides the action of fanatics who decide to be either hot (saints!) or cold (devils!) for the sake of reaching “Greatness of the Soul�.
For women, who can never be committed fanatically to anything according to Dostoyevsky’s characters, that means slavery, abuse, and oppression - either way.
For the male characters, it means a competition in a lethal show-down in the manner of Macbeth’s last scenes. Who has the greatest soul, who dies in the most visibly dramatic way? Curtain falls on the suffering women, who unfortunately have nothing to gain from that “virtue�. For “a woman is always a woman, even if she is a nun�. And that means she commits the crime of being lukewarm. Let’s spit her out!
Devils is harrowing, darkly funny, brilliantly told. It is a masterpiece. I wouldn’t have felt such brutal pain otherwise. It is recommended to all who want to understand the strange patterns of sexual, political and ritual power that charismatic men exert over dependent people - even to this day!
A tale so deeply unethical, it is a challenge to read. A worthwhile challenge though!
I open with the closing lines, on the brink of exhaustion, not sure of my own state of sanity.

Reading Dostoyevsky is a bit like spending time with close family members with a diametrically opposed worldview: I love them dearly, unconditionally, but I don’t LIKE them at all.
As I am slowly working my way through Dostoyevsky’s works, starting with the whisperings of a man taking notes from the underground, moving to the murderer Raskolnikov who manages to get my sympathy even though I loathe his actions and motives, and and then over to a holy fool like Myshkin, who enrages me completely with his ignorant arrogance and destructive power, I have now made the acquaintance of the Devils.
If Raskolnikov hypnotised me, and Myshkin made me curse, the Devils have a slower, yet even more powerful impact on my mental equilibrium. While I was reading the previous novels in a frenzy, without any interruptions, I had to take a prolonged break in the middle of this one. I just could not stomach the account of the rape of a child, and the subsequent “confession� of the crime by Stavrogin to a monk. The position of the monk regarding the situation was of such evil that I felt I couldn’t read on. I thought I could deal with the Russian nationalist and orthodox mindset by now, but that was too much. The girl committed suicide out of a religious panic, believing she had “killed God� by being raped.
And the representative for the church, thrilled by the confession and completely without pity for the child, tells the murderer that he will be forgiven, if only he suffers enough to please god. First of all, what kind of a god is that, who encourages suffering, even finds delight and pleasure in it, but completely ignores the victim? What if I told my child that it is acceptable to brutally assault somebody as long as I see that he suffers afterwards - that the crime is actually laudable because it gives me a welcome opportunity to watch my child suffer duly? Where is the educational police to arrest me for such parenting?
Second, the priest feels that the crime is “ridiculous� and “inelegant�, and not bloody enough to be interesting. He worries the murderer will turn into a laughing-stock if he publishes his confession. And also, the crime is far too common to raise any eyebrows.
That scene made me close the book and not re-open it for weeks. This may be Dostoyevsky, and he may be a genius, but I have a limit to what I can take in. And I am not willing to suffer to please any sadistic, patriarchal, sexually biased and oppressive god. Self-sacrifice is not a virtue in my worldview, it is a vice which generates violence - often resulting in horrible crimes committed against innocent people without connection to the fanatics who believe they are being religious heroes by promoting suffering. The characters in Dostoyevsky’s world act like immature young boys feeling neglected and drawing negative attention to themselves to be seen by the god-father figure. “Look at me, god!� they yell. “Look what I am doing! And I am doing it all for you! I want to be seen! It is all about ME! My confession is to be read publicly, so people talk about ME! And it is ME suffering, not that inelegant little girl, who was driven mad. We are not talking about her, it is MY suffering we are looking at. MY right to be seen as a hero in pain for the sake of penitence! The crime is just the necessary prerequisite to earn the right to the GREATEST penitence ever. Never mind a girl had to die…�
While taking a break, I continue to think about the novel, though, for such is his genius. And I come to the conclusion that I am trying to square a circle when I want to reconcile the evil characters and the theological idea. Isn’t religious commitment supposed to be a force for good? That was my question, and it is wrong.
Finally I realise that my premise is wrong, and that Dostoyevsky’s sincere belief works so well mainly because he believes in an evil, unfair god wanting suffering and complete submission, - a theology that isn’t intrinsically good at all (according to my worldview, which of course is personal, not universal!).
It is not good. It just is. Period. Once I have dumped my connection between ethics and religion, and accepted the reality of the characters, I can read on.
And I am happy I did. One of the most dramatic episodes in novelistic history must be the fête organised to benefit governesses in Russia - and what a spectacle it is. The Romantic poet, dramatically bidding a farcically narcissistic farewell to his audience, vowing never to write again, stumbles over people’s sense that romantic feelings and allegorical language are a thing of the past. The fête, which is planned more with the aim to celebrate the organisers than to support a good cause (much like any celebrity fundraising event for charity nowadays!) is a complete fiasco. The Devils at work!
Who are the devils?
They are a group of radical socialists, trying to impose another kind of absolute truth on a confused and explosive nation, foreshadowing the Russian Revolution and its inhumane aspects perfectly. As a document of historical processes, I found Devils to be incredibly enlightening, as it shows why Russia was incapable of transforming a patriarchal tyranny into a liberal democracy. The new ideas are propagated in the same religiously exclusive way as the old doctrine. There is one absolute truth, which all have to live by, and it will be forced upon the people by using violence. Socialist or tsarist power - the question is only which party is militarily stronger. Both have their blind followers and their holy dogma to keep people on track. In both cases, (self-)sacrifice is the motor which drives the destructive action. In both cases, the tirade in the Revelation about being spewed out by god (your chosen infallible idea!) if you are lukewarm (read: moderate and reasonable!) guides the action of fanatics who decide to be either hot (saints!) or cold (devils!) for the sake of reaching “Greatness of the Soul�.
For women, who can never be committed fanatically to anything according to Dostoyevsky’s characters, that means slavery, abuse, and oppression - either way.
For the male characters, it means a competition in a lethal show-down in the manner of Macbeth’s last scenes. Who has the greatest soul, who dies in the most visibly dramatic way? Curtain falls on the suffering women, who unfortunately have nothing to gain from that “virtue�. For “a woman is always a woman, even if she is a nun�. And that means she commits the crime of being lukewarm. Let’s spit her out!
Devils is harrowing, darkly funny, brilliantly told. It is a masterpiece. I wouldn’t have felt such brutal pain otherwise. It is recommended to all who want to understand the strange patterns of sexual, political and ritual power that charismatic men exert over dependent people - even to this day!
A tale so deeply unethical, it is a challenge to read. A worthwhile challenge though!
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Reading Progress
August 3, 2017
–
Started Reading
August 3, 2017
– Shelved
August 3, 2017
– Shelved as:
1001-books-to-read-before-you-die
August 3, 2017
– Shelved as:
dostoyevsky
August 3, 2017
–
17.0%
""Le Bon Dieu knew what He was in for when he was creating woman, but I am sure that she meddled in it herself and forced Him to create her such as she is ... and with such attributes: for who would have incurred so much trouble for nothing?"
Now that made me laugh out loud - the incredible logic of religious misogynists!
"
page
118
Now that made me laugh out loud - the incredible logic of religious misogynists!

September 17, 2017
–
64.12%
"
Reading an atrocious account of child abuse which led to religiously motivated suicide of a young girl (for "killing god" by being raped), I have to tell you, Dostoyevsky, that your priests are evil, as is their sadist god. Really, you stupid monk? God will forgive the crime, even though it is "inelegant" and "ridiculous"?"
page
445

Reading an atrocious account of child abuse which led to religiously motivated suicide of a young girl (for "killing god" by being raped), I have to tell you, Dostoyevsky, that your priests are evil, as is their sadist god. Really, you stupid monk? God will forgive the crime, even though it is "inelegant" and "ridiculous"?"
October 14, 2017
–
72.48%
"Back reading Devils after taking a break from its gratuitous brutality against women, I am relieved to discover some comical satire as well. Karmazinov's reading does not quite make the "great" impression he hopes for.
Romantic artist meets realist audience, and that is a case for Daumier!

Funny how allegories depend on the audience accepting them!"
page
503
Romantic artist meets realist audience, and that is a case for Daumier!

Funny how allegories depend on the audience accepting them!"
October 15, 2017
–
Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-50 of 72 (72 new)

By the time Dostoyevsky wrote this he sincerely believed that the Tsar was God's chosen ruler and that by entering into a conspiracy to assassinate the Tsar he had allowed the Devil to take possession of his soul.
As far as I can tell you believe in neither God nor the Devil and simply find the revolutionaries to be a bunch of deplorable wretches. You may be correct that is not quite how Dostoyevsky would have wanted his reader to react. Dostoyevsky always believed in the possibility of God's grace.

Yes, I agree that Dostoyevsky's biography influenced his storytelling, but his power does not reach so far as to dictate his reader's reactions. I refuse to accept dogmatic worship of authors for the sake of their infallible greatness as much as I refuse to accept crimes in the name of any powerful institution. I do understand the driving forces behind the revolutionaries, and don't consider their ideas deplorable at all, but the way in which they force their convictions upon others, justify violence and nullify the rights of women should be mentioned, regardless of Dostoyevsky's power and genius.
What I can't stand is the evil committed in the name of a greater power. Where is the grace for the little girl? Where is compassion for the abused and humiliated women? That is my issue with his stories, but I acknowledge his accurate rendering of circumstances I find revolting - still today. Opening any newspaper will make you see that patriarchal power is still very much en vogue, and secretly accepted by those who benefit from it. I just don't agree, that is all. And I didn't agree with that when I still belonged to a church institution either. The priest's answer to my teenage questions was: "Kvinnan tiger i församlingen!" which is Swedish for First Corinthians: "As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches."
Well, I decided that was not for me. It was only later that I was able to sort out my thoughts and understand that I personally do not believe in any supernatural powers, be they negative or positive, even though I sympathise with the human touch of the Greek gods and goddesses.
It has made me feel safe and secure to detach myself from an oppressive experience. That doesn't mean I want others to follow my decision. It is entirely private. I just speak for the right of each individual to choose for themselves, without indoctrination from a stronger power.

Dostoyevsky saw his devils as individuals for whom the grace of god had failed. You percieve them as murderous lunatics.
I am surprised to learn that that the Lutheran church disapproves of women expressing their opinions. The Catholic Church in not interested in the opinions of either men or women. There are pastors and sheep. The sheep are not supposed to argue with the shepherd.
"Self-sacrifice is not a virtue in my worldview."
And it is not a virtue in my view either. You know, Lisa - your reviews are not only brilliant reflections on books but also bottomless wells of principles that should be considered by many of those who choose to reject them straight away in the most unreflective manner and feel rather noble by doing so.
And it is not a virtue in my view either. You know, Lisa - your reviews are not only brilliant reflections on books but also bottomless wells of principles that should be considered by many of those who choose to reject them straight away in the most unreflective manner and feel rather noble by doing so.

Dostoyevsky saw hi..."
Oh yes, Czarny - Nastasya was one of my favourite characters in the Idiot, and I genuinely mourned her! And I loved Katerina in Crime and Punishment as well, but she didn't fare very well either, trying to cope with her drunkard husband and her children. Priests did nothing to help her, and just looked down on her for being weak.
The Lutheran church has many different factions nowadays, some in harmony with modern society, and some comically retro-nostalgic, intolerant and misogynistic. If you read Swedish authors - Strindberg, Lagerlöf, Lagerkvist, Vilhelm Moberg etc, etc - you will get an idea of the oppressive and evil power of the Lutheran church at its worst. There were tens of thousands of Swedes who left for America to escape the dogma of the Swedish state church, only to find themselves locked into a time capsule, once they were established there.
I can see what Dostoyevsky wanted to show with the notion of grace, but that doesn't change the fact that a child rapist who enjoys watching the girl's suicide is a lunatic murderer in my eyes. Maybe my point is that it is interchangeable in Dostoyevsky's conception of faith? And I can't see how an omniscient and all-powerful god would show grace towards the murderer, while not offering any theological tools (or intervention power) to protect the girl - if he (for it can't be a woman, for sure) is not an evil voyeur himself, that is. Then it makes sense.
As for the Catholic Church, I can see that it gives many people a good feeling and a structure to stick by, and I respect each individual's faith. What I am opposed to is the cynicism of the shepherds, who have a record of covering up crimes instead of prosecuting them. I would respect a church which chooses to show proactive behaviour and have each priest who abuses a child excommunicated, but instead, we have multiple examples of the opposite being the case: the church threatening to excommunicate whoever speaks up against the crime. If a doctrine can only survive if the institution hides its shepherds' evil and morally contemptible crimes, it won't have me as a follower, regardless of my ideas on supernatural powers in general. And why does the shepherd have to be male? Just because Petrus was male? Nonsensical misogyny again. If grace was there for everyone, there would be no difference between male and female, heterosexual and homosexual, married or unmarried people, and the church wouldn't have to impose their dogma under threats, as people would follow voluntarily.


Oxford professor Robert Service in his biography of Lenin
/book/show/1... expresses the opinion that Lenin had Tsar Nicholas" family killed out of revenge for his brother who has hanged by Tsar Alexander in 1887.
This is simply an opinion which Service is entitled to. Historians ultimately can only speculate on motives.
Your point is important in that it draws attention to the fact that Dostoyevsky's book brilliantly describes a political culture where violent retribution had become the norm. The Devils is nothing if not prophetic.

Dos..."
Wikipedia informs me that at the end of the 20th century prior to the major wave of Polish immigration, there were only 8500 Catholics in Sweden. Are you basing your opinion on the Catholic Church on what you have observed in your home country?

No - on 22 years spent in Southern and Western Germany, with a majority population of conservative and exclusive Catholics in all rural areas. I don't want to generalise, but I have been told many times during my vulnerable teenage years that I am a heathen and/or heretic and that sex before marriage is a capital sin which will catapult me, but strangely not the man, into hell. I have no good experience of religion in power, Czarny, but I am willing to concede I might be the deplorable, sole, individual exception to a rule of tolerance and open-mindedness. Dostoyevsky describes what I have seen myself, in strictly Lutheran or Catholic environments, so I believe it is not an issue of the Russian orthodox church, but of Christianity in general, which favours patriarchal submission and control of female (sexual and political) power.

And it is not a virtue in my view either. You know, Lisa - your reviews are not only brilliant reflections on books but also bottomless wells of p..."
Thank you, T! I believe self-sacrifice for religious or national purposes is the most evil "ideal" propagated to vulnerable children in order to make them submit to a generation of older patriarchs and their vanities. Thinking of Wilfred Owen's Dulce Et Decorum Est as an example outside religious submission. "That old lie..." is still haunting us today!

/book/show/1... expresses the opinion that Lenin had Tsar Nicholas" family killed out of revenge for his brother who has hanged by Tsar Alexander in 1887.
This is what I was told at uni too, Czarny, as one of the motifs, the example of the French Revolution also one - I am about to start the new biography on Lenin by Victor Sebestyen, I'll keep you posted if he shares this view or comes up with other nuances.

/book/show/1... expresses the opinion that Lenin had Tsar Nicholas" family killed out of revenge for..."
It is highly interesting to see how novels fare in the hands of politicians, and I am curious to read your account of Lenin's influences soon, Ilse! I long struggled to appreciate Wagner because of his views and of the successful annectation of his music by Nazi Germany. I have a divided feeling still, trying to filter between personal stories of adjustment within dictatorships and openly celebrated oppression of non-conformist views. Dostoyevsky himself ranges with Kipling in my world: I admire his storytelling genius, but nothing will make me subscribe to voyeuristic misogyny or the mindset of a "White Man's Burden". Seeing both genius and intolerance within those authors and making it a talking point is what concerns me.

Well there is nothing more Catholic than Southern Germany. I can hardly claim now that you have only second hand experience of Catholicism.
The Catholic Church does indeed consider sexual relations outside of marriage to be a sin. This may be why brides and grooms are required to go to confession prior to their marriage. The same rules on extramarital sex apply to both men and women as far as the magister of the Church is concerned. The double standard unquestionably existed in many Catholic societies but no priest should ever have endorsed it.

Yes, and I understand that it is important for practising Catholics to follow the rule of chastity outside marriage. I respect their choice and would never try to convince anyone to live against their personal sexual preference.
What I don't understand is the universal claim. How can they demand something of me that I haven't subscribed to? I could be following a completely different doctrine, with a completely different code of conduct, which requires me to act according to it (as is indeed the case: I strongly believe that sex should be a consensual act between grown-ups!). How come they threaten me with their hell? Would they threaten other religious people sticking to another ritual as well? Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims etc.? Or is the threat reserved for atheists, who subscribe to universal human rights (and responsibilities!) without any deities attached? It is both insulting and intimidating to have grown-up strangers judge your sexuality - hence my opinion that religious institutions are often intolerant and bizarrely obsessed with sex.

the crime is far too common to raise any eyebrows.
And we are talking of the XIX century! Before I thought people then were different, more progressive, but, because of other reviews about that period, I came to realize that no, that's not the case. And you only confirmed it. I did know that once rape wasn't considered the crime it is today, yet, it hadn't crossed my mind that it was THAT common and so accepted, especially in the 1800s. And especially of children. Was this the case only in Russia or was it world spread?
Self-sacrifice is not a virtue in my worldview, it is a vice which generates violence - often resulting in horrible crimes committed against innocent people
There are noble self-sacrifices that make all the sense in the world. I know I would give my life for the people I love, but if you are a "saint' of the likes of John Rivers from Jane Eyre, then yes, you are so right. Only, even he seems reasonable compared to what I read about here.
Thank you for this, as always, powerful and thought-provoking review, Lisa! I am afraid to list this after finding out the subject matter, but you convinced me.

the crim..."
Yes, I was shocked as well, Vessey! It made me shudder. And I agree with you, - to save my children, I would do whatever is required of me. Only I don't think I would define it as self-sacrifice. And I would not celebrate it as the greatest honour and achievement, just as the ultimative necessity to protect my children, who are my responsibility and the shining light in my life. I would certainly not do anything of the kind to prove a theological or ideological point, or to endanger other people.


Thank you, Isidora! I was tempted to write an enthusiastic account of his brilliant genius - which would have felt safe. But it would not have encompassed the complex anger I increasingly felt. Genius or not, some of his treatment of women was hard to accept - even considering time and place. Misogyny needs to be pointed out where it occurs, not "excused" by an author's genius status. It doesn't take away from his brilliance though.

My son studies the Russian Revolution at the moment, Ilse. Do you have any suggestions for further reading (teenage friendly)?

The religious nature of the cultural switch in 1917 is something I feel too, many of the revolutionaries had had a seminary education (most famously Stalin) so perhaps that was to be expected.
I think your point about the narcissism of faith very interesting too
great review ;)

The religious nature of the cultural switch in 1917 ..."
Thank you, Jan-Maat! I was considering writing an "orthodox" Dostoyevsky homage, praising the genius and ignoring my partial disgust. It would have felt safe to stick with the literature textbook. But then I thought he was such a genius because he manages to keep a reader who strongly disapproves engaged over 700 pages. I am not sure I am ready for the Brothers yet, though. Still feeling sore about that little girl who stared down Stavrogin before killing herself. Those imaginary eyes are haunting me, as well as the priest's greedy joy while analysing the sinner's path to redemption. No crime, no truly Christian suffering, he seemed to believe - thus making crime necessary for a true believer. I found quite some similarities to Camus' reflections on revolutions as well, but compared to hs diverse cast, Dostoyevsky's cast is quite simple: all emotional fanatics.

The religious nature of the cultura..."
yes he is interested in extremes of emotion, BK I think milder than Devils, I guess for D. the worst sin the renunciation of God? But he revisits the idea of murdered child and child murderer in BK from a critical angle in a conversation between Ivan and Alexei just before the story of the grand inquisitor. But before you get too excited, Ivan's way of being is shown to be a dead end...

Funny, I got the same question this weekend from my godson, Lisa, and I am brooding on it at the moment- with the centenary a whole new bunch of books has been published recently. I thought Figes's Revolutionary Russia, 1891-1991: A History very accessible but felt not wholly comfortable with his approach and views, but maybe I was too harsh on it. I actually think Jan-Maat could give you far better suggestions :).


I wish I had got curls as a result, Jaline ;-) My Scandinavian heritage isdoesn't allow for much hair... It was a fascinating read - against all my ethical views, but completely synched with my literary taste. I know it sounds strange, but that is how it felt.

The religious nature o..."
I think I need to read it to experience his opus magnum in any case. I think I read the extract with the Inquisitor as an adolescent, but I couldn't appreciate it fully without the context of his other novels.


Thank you, Anuradha! I guess he is one of my favourites as well, as he makes me grapple with each single character!

Funny, I got the same question this weekend from my godso..."
Thank you, Ilse! I will check it out both for my son and myself. We have some textbooks at home - but it is always interesting to read different historians' take on it. A lot of focus on the era this year!

Yes, it's been a remarkable fruitful year for historians focussing on the era, so the opportunity to read on different historical approaches seems to be simply endless and could keep us going until the next centenary :), including authors making up their own lists of 'best books on the Russian Revolution'. I came across one by Simon Sebag Montefiori, one by Tariq Ali (), and quite some articles reviewing books published this year by the dozen in one take:).

Funny, I got the same question this weekend from my godso..."
Not really, I would clutch at my heart and pull a shocked face at the idea of reading Figes ()
But how about John Reed Ten days that shook the world?

Funny, I got the same question this weekend ..."
The Reed book was already on my radar - I think my bookworm son would like it a lot!

Yes, it's been a remarkable fruitful year fo..."
Oh thank you so much for the added suggestions, I have finally managed to check the article. My son and I are set to go to the library in the city on Sunday, and I will make a pre-selection!


Thank you, Eleanor! As you know, I agree wholeheartedly with you. And I struggle woth Dostoyevsky's theology both because I find it difficult to imagine he really believes what he claims to believe, and also to see how he can actually be convinced that it is a good theology. But in a way, he is more honest than many priests nowadays. While they try to explain away all the evil parts in the bible and in church history, to make it sound less brutal (as our human rights ideas have changed since some patriarchal men wrote the collection of texts), Dostoyevsky seems to take it all in honestly. Not that it is an excuse, but considering his personal history, it might well have corresponded well with his experience. Still, to promote it as salvation is beyond my pain level. And I eould never wish that kind of anxiety on my children!

I have come far too late into this discussion to add anything of value, and have been enthralled with the depth of passion (and knowledge) of all the participants in the ensuing comments.
I read this as a teen, (when I thought I knew everything) and I think I was stupefied into silence ... for there could be no other reaction for a young adult who had no one to help mitigate the force and intensity that such a book delivered. Perhaps some books should come with a warning/rating: not to be read without adult supervision. : )
I see that it (still) raises many passionate responses on both sides of the religious spectrum, and wonder when/if we will ever escape the bondage of the gods we have created, so disappointingly, in our own images.

I have come far too late into this discussion to add anything of value, and have been enthralled with the depth of passion (and knowledge) of all the pa..."
As always you nail it, Julie! We get the gods we can imagine. And that of course explains Dostoyevsky's beliefs more than anything. They mirror the brutality with which he was confronted each day. No grace (or even care) for women, as that is not what men at that tome, in that place, were concerned with - and men dictated dogma, both political and religious, thus perpetuating women's submission under their narcissistic worldview.


Dostoyevsky saw hi..."
The traditional Lutheran church has always been almost as dogmatic as the Catholic church in many ways. It is from Luther, we have the statement that one should be subservant to higher powers both ecclesiastical and secular, "Seid untertan gegenueber der Obrigkeit, die Gewalt ueber euch hat" and Luther's own attitude towards women was probably even worse than Paul of Tarsus' was.

And imagine visting a Catholic church in Southern Germany and being told that I was a religious mongrel because my mother is Catholic and my father is Lutheran. But then again, I have had the same (no actually worse) happen with radical Pentecostals and Baptists who called me the spawn of Satan (but I scared them and freaked them out because after the radical Pentecostals had pontificated about my supposed satanism, I quoted the witch chant from MacBeth and made the morons scream in terror because they thought I was really a witch and cursing them, ha).

The monk is not pictured in a negative way. On the contrary - he is an authority on theology who advises Stavrogin. His attitude shocked me more than the rapist himself. The confession made the monk like Stavrogin more than before, and he took it in without disgust, speculating on the possible effect of a publication. He offered Stavrogin a place in the monastery for his "repentance" and "suffering", but thought the confession would be received by the public with ridicule, as Stavrogin showed the weakness of "kissing the girl's feet", which was "inelegant", and not suited to create the right feeling for a "great crime". He did not once reflect on the girl's pain, her fear, her shame, her religious confusion, and her suicide, which Stavrogin passively watched happen.

The monk is not pictured in a negative way. On the contrary - he is an au..."
Yuck, I think I might have considered the book, had the monk been portrayed negatively, but no ...

The monk is not pictured in a negative way. On the contrary ..."
I don't think I have ever encountered an author who shows more explicitly how a male-dominated doctrine sees women as pure objects - first of desire, and later as a vehicle for suffering on the path to redemption. Women are simply not considered as valuable life. Think of the old woman murdered by Raskolnikov as well - deemed "unnecessary". Or Marmeladov, who happily drinks the money his daughter earns as a forced prostitute. He believes in his own suffering and therefore in god's grace. Or think of Nastasya in the Idiot, who is destroyed by that evil imbecile Myshkin who thinks female sexuality is a sin per se. These novels are not intentionally misogynistic - they just happen to show the mindset that women are objects - presumably because that is how they were generally perceived at that time. In all fundamentally Christian communities, that is still the case. No contraception, no divorce, no sexuality outside marriage - just to name the most evident everyday violations of the human right to free choice.

The monk is not pictured in a negative way..."
Sigh ... but true!

Yes, indeed! I am catching breath before starting on the Karamazows... Strindberg's ideas on women and male suffering come to mind while reading Dostoyevsky as well. Hewas schooled in the most life-denying, strict Lutheran misogyny.

It's what happens when you try reading a brilliant author like Dostoyevsky and reconcile his prose with your strong opinions about human rights - a very strange cocktail of emotions!

I’m glad I came late to this review, Lisa, because I got the benefit of all your further thoughts on the themes you had already dealt with so well in the review.
I’ve only read Crime and Punishment but my experience could be summed up by your wise formula: against all my ethical views but perfectly suited to my literary tastes. A dilemma in other words.
We were talking about Nabokov’s The Gift earlier today. I think he might have labeled the revolutionary writer Nikolay Chernyshevsky whom he satirized unmercifully in the book as one of Dostoyevsky’s Devils. Another reason you might relate to The Gift.
Thank you, Jean-Paul! I love Ensor. Isn't it a difficult balance to strike between love and dislike? It is perfectly possible to feel both at the same time.