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Ha! I'm sure he's heard it before. If perhaps expressed with more profanity. :)

Hm, I dunno... I think the worst thing about this book was the book, not that the putz hasn't followed it up yet, though that's not good either.

Not a fan, eh? I do think that it wasn't as good, but I blame part of that on the fact that the book got split up into two and a lot of the best characters are in the next book not the upcoming one. The fact that he hasn't followed it up yet is also kind of annoying due to that since the two books are supposed to take place simultaneously. So I feel like I can't judge the whole story until its finished, ya know?

PS- I just finished the No God but God book. Thanks SO much for the rec, it was amazing.

.. ok, definitely meant "the next book, not this book." That was confusing, and the crappy IE I'm on at work won't let me edit things, but yeah. Anyways. Sorry.

I agree that omitting the most interesting characters was a big problem. The bigger problem was what he replaced them with:

-A series of insignificant plots where Jaime wanders around, and, um... does... some stuff... but hey, at least you can SEE HIS PROFOUND MORAL CHANGE!!!!

-Petyr Baelish and Sansa waiting, and waiting, and waiting... and suddenly everyone hates them but HEY that's all over after some guy pulls his sword! At least now we know what some minor knights of House Arryn's banners look like. Wondering was keeping me up nights!

-Sam on a boat, and on a boat some more, and well, at least he gets laid, that's way more fun than I had reading those chapters...

-Cersei says something, then thinks something psychotic, then says something, then thinks something psychotic, then says something, then... (etc)

The book spun its wheels for eight hundred pages. His editor needs to grow a pair and remind George that not everything he says is interesting just because he said it. Why couldn't he speed up Samwell arriving at the Citadel? Why couldn't he cut down on the unbelievable tedium of Brienne's trek across eastern Westeros? Why do we need to know about every hair on the scrotum of every Dornish nobleman? He's doing what J. J. Abrams did with Lost: he writes whatever the hell comes to mind without doing any planning and assumes he'll find his way out of his mazes later. Only J. J. has managed to find his way out, for the most part. What does George do? Basically say he DID write the interesting parts of this novel after all, but (aw!) he wouldn't want to bore us with THAT, so we'll have to wait until (oh, maybe) next year (ha, ha...).

Sorry about the rant... I'm a little annoyed.

Ha - Conrad's detailed comment tells me something I've long suspected. I can't remember a damn thing about the F&I series anymore. And I don't feel like rereading them when (finally) the next book surfaces, since who knows when the last book will arrive? When I'm 90? Martin has lost me.

Maybe Martin should hire Brandon Sanderson to finish it. From what I've been hearing, he did a good job with Jordan's morbidly obese World of Time series.

I've heard that too. The guy already has plenty on his plate, though!

Conrad wrote: "I've heard that too. The guy already has plenty on his plate, though!"

So does Martin but at least Sanderson seems capable of delivering the goods in a reasonable amount of time.

Oh Sanderson did a great job with WoT, so good that I'm a complete fangirl again! Better than Jordan's last 8 books in fact.

Oh, Wheel of Time. Now there is a series that lost me with meandering, whiny, ridiculous 1000s of pages of nothing. I threw Book 6 at the wall and made a vow, nevermore! It might be good, but like.. is it good enough to warrant me going back and reading the last 6 books to get to the "at least its better than Jordan!"

Conrad, Re, your criticisms: I really need to do a re-read. I read this installment immediately after it came out. It was so long ago, I was still in high school and a teenage fangirl, so I was willing to forgive a lot. I've re-read the first two books numerous times over the years, but never re-read the 3rd or 4th. Perhaps that says something. But anyway, I can't remember enough of it to deal with everything you're saying, but I can address some:

-I actually like Jaime's moral change and his conflict with Cersei and the Lannisters. I think there's a lot there. I believe I thought that Martin just wanted us to get to know this new Jaime and so didn't focus so much on plot with him. I didn't mind that.

-The rest: That sounds very accurate. He does get really really obsessed with tiny details of worldbuilding. But I mean... have you seen the glossaries on the man's books? Like that's a surprise. He's been recording every character who has ever been mentioned since Book One. That's kind of just the way the man trends sometimes, and I do think sometimes we benefit from it. For example, a lot of the observations we get from Tyrion, his great evocation of a somewhat shallow, scared 12 year old girl in Sansa (even if she is boring), stuff like that.

I absolutely agree that the editor should have caught it, though. That crap is ridiculous. Martin can write short form, even if he doesn't like to. He's participated on a lot of short story collections.

I guess this is what being enormously successful does for you? Since the last two books of the series sold so well, the editors don't want to mess with it too much?

I guess this is what being enormously successful does for you? Since the last two books of the series sold so well, the editors don't want to mess with it too much?

I have a friend who is friends with GRRM irl. I'm not supposed to gossip, and I get yelled at every time I do, but I'm weak, and I can't help it.

And yes, I ask my mutual friend all the time to prod GRRM to finish already, and he just laughs at me. My friend. GRRM has no idea who I am.

P.S I like the review. When I reviewed the first of this series I also wrote a letter. I also like what Conrad said. :)

Ooooooh, nice juicy gossip!

Frankly, I'm really disappointed in the quality of gossip from my friend. Nothing salacious, prurient or risqué - just crap about GRRM's writing process. Which is fine, don't get me wrong, but I'd like a story about GRRM shooting a guy in Reno just to watch him die, or something.

[Edit: GRRM didn't shoot a man in Reno, and I'm not trying to imply he did. I'm going to get in so much trouble.]

Everything he writes becomes canon to him. Even things that are dumb, don't work, and then get edited out. I hear tell he got almost completely finished with #6, but then had to tear it up due to a continuity error. So, um, he's fucked, because what he wrote is real to him, even if it can't work, and now he's having a hard time changing anything.

Wow, that is the biggest drag of a God complex that I have ever heard of. Damn. If you can't deus ex it up what is it all worth??

And it is awesome gossip! I feel like GRRM would totally post about shooting someone in Reno on his blog, but would neeever post this stuff about the writing process. Totally salacious in terms of what we're not supposed to know about how apparently insane he is.

And the fact that we we're probably just never getting the next book. Argh.

I feel like GRRM would totally post about shooting someone in Reno on his blog, but would neeever post this stuff about the writing process.

I get the impression that for some writers, writing about process is like talking about their own sex lives in pornographic detail. It's....unseemly, and then they have to reveal they have a foot fetish or like dressing up like a nun or something more weird. I think this applies to GRRM, because his process looks a little crazy. I can't really fault it, like I can't fault a foot fetish, because I think people, in general, don't have a lot of control over their instincts. But I hope he can kick it a little more vanilla and GET THIS BOOK DONE.

Ceridwen wrote: "GET THIS BOOK DONE"

Amen! After giving up on WoT and reading the first couple books of ASoF&I, I decided to wait until GRRM was done with the series instead of risking another epic fantasy burnout. I figure by the time he finishes, I'll be retired and have plenty of time to cruise through the volumes.

If you'll be retired, than I'll be dead! :D

Kelly wrote: "Oh, Wheel of Time. Now there is a series that lost me with meandering, whiny, ridiculous 1000s of pages of nothing. I threw Book 6 at the wall and made a vow, nevermore! It might be good, but like.. is it good enough to warrant me going back and reading the last 6 books to get to the "at least its better than Jordan!"

Kelly, The Gathering Storm (Sanderson's sequel to the Wheel of Time series) is seriously good. So good that, like Lori, I'm a complete fangirl again. My advice would be to skip books 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 (read the on-line summaries instead), and dive straight into The Gathering Storm for some good old-fashioned Wheel of Time fun. There are awesome scenes in it, scenes you won't have too much trouble understanding if you made it all the way to book 6. Seriously, Sanderson did a great job with that series, and I can't wait to see what else he comes up with. Bring on those final two books already!

On a completely unrelated topic, Lori, you'll be pleased to hear that I bought Gardens of the Moon yesterday. It'll be a while before I'll get round to reading it, but it's on the pile now...

Oooooh how exciting Martine! My heart rate just went up for your sake. :D

I'd probably have to read a summary of all the books since I read book 6 right after it came out and I haven't touched the series since then. I'll think about it, though, Martine. Since the recommendation is coming from such a respected source, it does give me pause on my hardliner vow against it. Maybe. Possibly. Or maybe I should wait until the next two come out in case he does get affected by the Martin curse after all and they take awhile. :)

Loved your review ( as awlways ) thought the 4th book in this series was horrible. The only plot progression was Sansa's which was the one redeeming element in this book. I was so disappointed in this book that I swore others to stay away from it. Thanks for your review <3

Ha, you're welcome, though I'm not sure I really "reviewed" this book per se. I was a bit disappointed with this one as well, though I just read the fifth one and it wasn't that bad!

It's like Misery...George R.R. Martin style.

Yes, exactly!

You know what the internets say: "Everytime you ask GRRM to write faster he kills a Stark!" Think of the Starks!

Get over it. You should have tried being a Dark Tower series fan! :-D

You may have missed the sarcasm in this review. It is the internet, sometimes tone is hard to get. I don't care how long he takes. :)

So what was up with the Dark Tower series? I never read it!

I'm reading these reviews now that I'm very nearly done & I must say that this is one of my preferred in the sense of honesty, but fakes a "British" accent worse than the actor who plays Tyrion!
Am saving all other comments for my own review! ;-)

Martin isn't exactly loafing. His word count per year is about the same as for authors who write one normal size novel pet year.

I do not disagree with you. In case it was not clear, the above review is tongue planted firmly in cheek.

That was kinda the best thing ever :-D

Maybe he "needs a hard raping" to get his fire lit again?