欧宝娱乐

FREAKING THANK YOU

So true

Khadidja wrote: "FREAKING THANK YOU"

YOU'RE WELCOME

Sydnee wrote: "So true"

thanks :)

i agree so much!!!!!!!!!

Rose wrote: "i agree so much!!!!!!!!!"

And it's such a good series! So why ruin it with such a shitty trope?

i know i know but I ship it nonetheless 馃檲馃檲

Nadja wrote: "i know i know but I ship it nonetheless 馃檲馃檲"

I think most people do

i know but ... i still ship them

Karolina wrote: "i know but ... i still ship them"

(you really shouldn't)

I don鈥檛 really ship them, but i like them individually, soooo i鈥檓 on the safe side right? Lol

Sawn wrote: "I don鈥檛 really ship them, but i like them individually, soooo i鈥檓 on the safe side right? Lol"

hmm...I dunno. Why do you like Cardan exactly?

Kai wrote: "Sawn wrote: "I don鈥檛 really ship them, but i like them individually, soooo i鈥檓 on the safe side right? Lol"

hmm...I dunno. Why do you like Cardan exactly?"

That is a good question! I don鈥檛 know to be honest. My feelings are gonna be clearer after the second book, I suppose 馃し馃徑鈥嶁檧锔�

I wouldn鈥檛 count on that 馃槃

preach

So true but I don't love them any less haha 馃槤

Amanda (Danii Reads) wrote: "So true but I don't love them any less haha 馃槤"

well I definitely don't love Cardan

I mean you're not wrong but I will go down with this ship

Layna wrote: "I mean you're not wrong but I will go down with this ship"

DROWN THEN

just kidding but for real, do we really want to support toxic relationships in 2019?

ok hot take incoming but like...lukewarm bc of the polar vortex, etc.

taken as a love story, it's horrible. like i shouldn't even have to list the reasons it's horrible. the characters are forced into toxic relationships, toxic situations, and everything they do just pushes them farther and farther into their roles as caricatures of people. the characters are certainly not static, but they don't grow as people. they're young (or at least jude is), forced play a game they can't win, and they're not given opportunities to heal. it's a horrible cycle, and it's depressing to read through the book hoping for an ounce of forgiveness, only to be thrown yet again into a backstabbing plot.

however. i...don't think it's a love story. or a...person-developoment story, if you get my gist. if it is, it's certainly one in poor taste, as our main players (carden, jude, taryn, vivi to an extent) are all victims of abuse and show no signs of healing from it. i would absolutely love to see the cast, you know, be given a chance to heal, learn to forgive, learn to live for their own sakes, etc, but they way holly black is playing it, i don't think that's going to happen. idk if she has any opinion on this (since i'm not too active on goodreads. or anywhere, for that matter), but given the dysfunctional nature of...all relationships, here...it behooves us readers to analyze the story through a different lens.

so i propose we analyze this as a tragedy. let's begin: the cast is initially "human" (all faeries are born as blank slates, similar to humans. you can see this in Vivi) or they are borth with the potential to act like one. Like us, essentially.

faeries are thrust into a static world, where roles are granted from birth and change usually results in bloodshed. faeries fail to find build meaningful relationships since their culture is drenched in lust for power and instead turn to substances (even song and dance could be considered substance abuse, as it probably achieves some sort of "high"). their immortality means that it is hard to enact fundamental change.

magic functions not as a tool but also an obstacle: glamour, commands, bargains鈥� they're all tools to grant more power that have the catastrophic side effect of destroying most potential for relationships.

so essentially, it's a fundamentally sick society.

and then we see these characters twisted by it, twisted away from the people they could've been. we see the world shaping them into beings that view danger as natural and safety as unfamiliar. we see jude, humilated, carving herself into a weapon; taryn, strung along by the epitome of faerie manipulation; carden, denied the love he deserved, beaten into someone who maybe doesn't deserve love after all.

we see them sister, lover-close, yet leagues away. we see faerie court pushing them farther away, deeper into their shells, for no reason aside from its own power.

it's heartbreaking.

so, uh. this is a very good tragedy. throw in the absolutely genius court intrigue, the plans, and it's an amazing read.

but it's still not a love story.

whew, that was a bit of a rant, and hm. maybe some of it is superfluous but i think it's still understandable. anyways that's my take lemme know ur thoughts

Rose wrote: "ok hot take incoming but like...lukewarm bc of the polar vortex, etc.

taken as a love story, it's horrible. like i shouldn't even have to list the reasons it's horrible. the characters are forced ..."

okay I haven't read this because I fear it might include spoilers and I havent read book 2 yet

oh hjkdfsh sorry i mean it's pretty general. there are examples of what i talk about in wicked king to like...a greater extreme compared to cruel prince but no explicit spoilers i think

I really don鈥檛 like Cardan at the moment. I think faeries in general just don鈥檛 match well with humans. They鈥檙e assholes

I absolutely agree with you. But I have to say, for me, personally, these three adjectives "destructive, manipulative and cruel" are exactly the reasons why I like it. 馃槀 I know, somethings really wrong with me.

It鈥檚 fiction. If you can鈥檛 separate fiction from reality, you have a problem. #shipwhatyoulove

Anastasia wrote: "It鈥檚 fiction. If you can鈥檛 separate fiction from reality, you have a problem. #shipwhatyoulove"





You got it Anastasia. I'm glad you and I both know that this stuff isn't rea,l but then there are enough teenagers and adults who can't always tell when a relationship is goals and when it's toxic. So even though I'm fully aware it's fiction, I'm also fully aware that romanticising assholes isn't exactly helpful.

Cute hashtag though.

Jude and Cardan, both have a lot of personal growth and healing to go through before they will be able to have a strong healthy relationship. To me they are both interesting characters and I think this trilogy is meant to show how the circumstances of their lives have affected them and how they choose to respond. While they are not always kind to each other, they are learning more about themselves and what it means to trust other people. Also, the book does a good job at showing the reader how their relationship is not built on trust, and open communication. To me it doesn't glorify the negatives so much as point them out and show the terrible effects it has.

I am interested in seeing where their characters end up at the end of the trilogy. Will they choose to trust each other and work together? Or will they continue to clash? They may not be perfect for each other now, but perhaps they will grow into people who learn from their mistakes and take responsibility to do better.

Anyways, I think a large part of this story is a personal journey for Jude. She has been through a lot, has a lot of hurt. Can she heal and move forward or will she be stuck in a cycle of hurt.

Rose wrote: "ok hot take incoming but like...lukewarm bc of the polar vortex, etc.

taken as a love story, it's horrible. like i shouldn't even have to list the reasons it's horrible. the characters are forced ..."

Okay now that I have finished the book I came to a similar conclusion. In a world where no upfront, honest, trustworthy relationships exist because people (aka faeries) are unable to stop being vicious and cruel, I cannot blame Cardan and Jude for forming another toxic relationship.

And I agree, it surely has a tragic character.

I still do not find myself able to accept the possibility of a happily ever after. They're straight up abusive dipshits. You could say they deserve one another but I really don't want to say that. I don't think I can overlook the history of abuse they share and there is no way that they can build something that resembles a healthy relationship on that.

G E O R G I A wrote: "I like their dynamic about having this pararels of being neglected children starving for attention -Cardan- and power -Jude- and finding reflections of themselves on the other. I think its interest..."

I definitely agree with all that you said. It is a very interesting dynamic and I'm excited to see where it leads them in book 3.

Julia wrote: "I really don鈥檛 like Cardan at the moment. I think faeries in general just don鈥檛 match well with humans. They鈥檙e assholes"

preach.

Margaret wrote: "Jude and Cardan, both have a lot of personal growth and healing to go through before they will be able to have a strong healthy relationship. To me they are both interesting characters and I think ..."

It sure is exciting to see both Jude and Cardan adjust to their positions, to see them struggle for independence and power, to see them win and lose and negotiate. I'm still uncertain about whether I think it does or doesn't glorify the darker parts of their relationship. I just finished book 2 and I'm still way too caught up in it. But for now, I agree that this book showed them that they cannot possibly lead a working relationship without trust and cooperation.

Of course they suck, and that鈥檚 probably why it鈥檚 so fun! They are two really horrible characters doing pretty horrible things, and I just wanna see how it ends up! Also, I found Jude to be worse than Cardan.

KP wrote: "Of course they suck, and that鈥檚 probably why it鈥檚 so fun! They are two really horrible characters doing pretty horrible things, and I just wanna see how it ends up! Also, I found Jude to be worse t..."

I do wanna know too.
And really?? why?

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE SAID IT!! like kp said^, i think that鈥檚 why many people love them together, because they鈥檙e manipulative and cruel to each other. they call it love but also hate, but i don鈥檛 see any love, but then again...that鈥檚 what some like about it. i read the cruel prince recently and i gave it 2 stars - i just didn鈥檛 get the hype.

Maggie wrote: "FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE SAID IT!! like kp said^, i think that鈥檚 why many people love them together, because they鈥檙e manipulative and cruel to each other. they call it love but also hate, but i don鈥檛 s..."

I don't really see love either. But then again, how do you define love? I think they see themselves mirrored in the other person in a way. And they definitely have the hots for each other. But I don't really mind it anymore.
I loved both The Cruel Prince and the Wicked King but I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea

here's a hot take: not every relationship in fiction is meant to be taken as #ship goals!!!!, and expecting writers to only write healthy stock romance is dumb and boring. holly black has always written complicated relationships, many of which have unhealthy sides to them (see: cassel and lila in the curse workers) and she never treats them as the height of idealized romance like a lot of authors do. jude and cardan (and locke, vivi, madoc, taryn, et al) are terrible people who do terrible things to both their enemies and the people they love. faeries have fucked up morals. that's the point.

tl;dr - authors are allowed to have complicated, flawed and even awful characters with complicated, flawed and even awful relationships. no one in this trilogy is a good person. enjoying reading about those stories and those sorts of people is fine, as long as you're not looking for someone to treat you like cardan or jude irl.

Jenny wrote: "here's a hot take: not every relationship in fiction is meant to be taken as #ship goals!!!!, and expecting writers to only write healthy stock romance is dumb and boring. holly black has always wr..."

Jenny, if you had read the comments you'd know that I agree with you.

And we love them for that reason, because they鈥檙e so messed up! They also make my constant fight over the dishes with my husband seem pretty healthy and almost #relationshipgoals

Sandra wrote: "And we love them for that reason, because they鈥檙e so messed up! They also make my constant fight over the dishes with my husband seem pretty healthy and almost #relationshipgoals"

I see your point ^^ it sure is nice to see other people's drama and then be reminded how nice and harmonic life is

I think that's the point! It's purposefully toxic and horrible, and that's incredibly well portrayed (I think)

THANK YOU!!! I like Jude as an individual and ehhhhh maybe Carden. But they shouldn鈥檛 be together. They really shouldn鈥檛.

Of course I believe the toxicity is purposeful. But I feel like it鈥檚 written in a way that鈥檚 supposed to make me feel good and want to root for them. But I just can鈥檛. Not cause 鈥�#relationship goals鈥� or whatever, but I just don鈥檛 feel like their chemistry works all that well.

I wish she had written Carden in a way where we could really truly see him give a shit about Jude and truly see her hard work. Instead he acts like a dipshit and seemingly doesn鈥檛 care how much she suffers. (Which I guess is understandable since she did trick him). I don鈥檛 know. It鈥檚 just frustrating XD

Yui wrote: "THANK YOU!!! I like Jude as an individual and ehhhhh maybe Carden. But they shouldn鈥檛 be together. They really shouldn鈥檛."

They shouldn't and I hope they won't end up together cause they' kill each other sooner or later but I agreewith you, the toxicity is defintely intended to be there. There are no "healthy" relationships in Faerie anyway.

Halez wrote: "I think that's the point! It's purposefully toxic and horrible, and that's incredibly well portrayed (I think)"

I think so too, it's very well done.

thank u for your service

Martina wrote: "thank u for your service"

the pleasure was all mine

Kingsley wrote: "I definitely like both characters as a whole (Maybe because I've only read the Cruel Prince) but I don't really see them as a couple all too much (again, maybe that's because I've only read book 1)"

I think Wicked King will only make you like them more. And well...I definitely wouldn't call them a couple either in spite of what Wicked King holds for them...

Yep and it's entertaining as hell!

Wendi wrote: "Yep and it's entertaining as hell!"

true that :D

Kingsley wrote: "THE COVER IS BEAUTIFUL"

fuck yes. oh my god.