Jan-Maat's Reviews > Meditations
Meditations
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Jan-Maat's review
bookshelves: 2nd-century, religion, autobiography-memoir, classical-and-late-antiquity, spritual-supermarket
Nov 11, 2018
bookshelves: 2nd-century, religion, autobiography-memoir, classical-and-late-antiquity, spritual-supermarket
Ah I had a far better review in my mind, but it has, like morning mist, cleared out from my mind leaving a jumble of words and impressions, so you will have to endure that, or skip to another GR update instead :)
The weaknesses of Marcus Aurelius's jottings and musings, his inconsistencies, vaguenesses, intellectual messiness, the lack of exploration of any particular idea in detail are it's strengths. There is a Marcus Aurelius for everyone, or perhaps for everyday of the year (Selections from the Thoughts of Marcus Aurelius for every day in the year) (and I suspect there are Marcus Aurelius day by day calendars). I wondered if at some point the real Marcus Aurelius would stand up, and of course he does, just like Spartacus at the end of the Stanley Kubrik .
The work known variously as Meditations or the Golden Book was originally written in Greek and entitled 'To Himself', it is divided into twelve 'books' each perhaps fifteen or so printed pages in length. The first book is a listing of to whom and for what Marcus Aurelius is grateful - for things like his upbringing and character rather than that people pay their taxes and, by and large, obey the laws. The other eleven books don't have any thematic unity. At the end of the first book he writes: 'Among the Quadi, on the river Gran' this is the only indication of time and place in the entire work which is good from the point of view of approachability, Yes, you too, and me, have direct access to the personal musing of a Roman Emperor you can read his blogging, indeed in places almost his tweets, there is no barrier you can approach him with out prior knowledge - people have approached him with out prior knowledge for almost 2,000 years, so much so that I fear there is little novel here: be grateful, practise serenity, be kind to others, appreciate the order and structure of life, do your duty (like a Roman). The downside is you don't learn much about Marcus Aurelius, it is somehow so personal, private and interior that it has become indistinct and universal, suitable for fridge magnets or motivational posters anywhere.
I believe that formally Marcus was a a stoic, if his reflections in his book represent cutting edge stoic philosophy or the ponderings of a well educated individual of his day I don't know. In book eleven particularly he quotes Homer, Sophocles, Euripides and Plato, but he never mentions the famous Roman stoic Seneca. Perhaps Seneca was already forgotten by Aurelius' time or perhaps the issue of how to behave under the rule of an emperor was a bit too close to the bone for the Emperor.
As I mentioned in updates it reminded me in its stress on duty of what I have heard of the Bhagadvad Gita and I felt that Aurelius' : Worldnature, nature, world reason, cosmic purpose, gods, universal nature,mind of the universe, god... (a sample of the terms he seems to use for some kind of ordering principle in the universe) could all have been expressed as, or were reaching towards ideas of Dharma or Dao. Since this is a philosophical work, of sorts, or perhaps a religious one, I wondered if the translation was unhelpful - perhaps all these terms might have been rendered by one expression in the original, perhaps Logos (most famous now from the opening of the Gospel of Saint John), yet I think I read in the introduction that Marcus did use all these different terms even though, contextually they all appear to mean something similar if not identical.
Given this and the Tao Te Ching, I would have imagined that the Tao Te Ching was the one written by a canny Emperor, Marcus somehow often manages to sound like a harassed corporate drone forced to share a workbench with people who don't brush their teeth and who wash and change their clothes regularly - meaning once every nine weeks - (5:28) I could imagine it as the basis for a new US Sit-Com, maybe Aurelius: the customer service years, a slight change from his previous appearances in the films The Fall of the Roman Empire and Gladiator both of which downplay quite how odd Marcus' son the Emperor was (view spoiler) .
Marcus says that he thinks praying for three hours a day is sufficient, but it was unclear to me quite what he would be praying to, his universe otherwise seems fairly deterministic and the gods a part of that as much as the fig trees, horses and people, perhaps his prayer was more his spiritual practise to encourage the serenity, kindness, and indifference to death that he speaks of rather than requests to the gods.
Walking wet pavements observing (stoically of course) the flashes of lightening over the sky, I wondered if death and being forgotten (everybody who ever knew you also dying) was such a constant preoccupation in these writing because it was a prospect that he really feared, as it has happened this has preserved his memory fairly effectively.
Everything he says is created for some duty (8:19) even if we accept that this is so and easily definable for his examples of a horse and a vine, the question that he does not address is what about an Emperor? Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero were all emperors and all acted as though they had different conceptions of duty. But Marcus while exposing his innermost thoughts does not want to reveal what he thought his own duty as an Emperor was. For me it was not a case of Howards end is no the landing but Marcus Aurelius was on the dusty shelf, picked up for two GBP I don't recall when, probably in disreputable company.
At the same time I can not be completely comfortable with him. Mine [my concern], to be in friendship and charity with all men (11:13) he writes while fighting wars against the Marcomanni, Quadi and Samatians, so friendship and charity with not quite all men, I flicked through the relevant pages of Empires and Barbarians and saw that war began because they asked if they could enter the empire and had been refused, perhaps I am missing something here, also this was a period when punishments for crimes became harsher for those of lower social status, his self cultivation and personal serenity did not come into conflict with a conception of imperial duty that seems in practise to have been heavy handed (kindness is irresistible but he is partial to the decapitation of his enemies), perhaps for him there was no contradiction, he was no Ashokha (he says somewhere that you either have to improve people or put up with them, he does not seem to have tried improving them, that was not his duty). But his writings don't clarify his approach to authority and rule to me (view spoiler) .
I see here Marcus Aurelius for business: Meditations: Thoughts for Corporate Dominance this from the man who wrote (5:33) "all that men set their hearts on in this life is vanity, corruption and trash..."
The weaknesses of Marcus Aurelius's jottings and musings, his inconsistencies, vaguenesses, intellectual messiness, the lack of exploration of any particular idea in detail are it's strengths. There is a Marcus Aurelius for everyone, or perhaps for everyday of the year (Selections from the Thoughts of Marcus Aurelius for every day in the year) (and I suspect there are Marcus Aurelius day by day calendars). I wondered if at some point the real Marcus Aurelius would stand up, and of course he does, just like Spartacus at the end of the Stanley Kubrik .
The work known variously as Meditations or the Golden Book was originally written in Greek and entitled 'To Himself', it is divided into twelve 'books' each perhaps fifteen or so printed pages in length. The first book is a listing of to whom and for what Marcus Aurelius is grateful - for things like his upbringing and character rather than that people pay their taxes and, by and large, obey the laws. The other eleven books don't have any thematic unity. At the end of the first book he writes: 'Among the Quadi, on the river Gran' this is the only indication of time and place in the entire work which is good from the point of view of approachability, Yes, you too, and me, have direct access to the personal musing of a Roman Emperor you can read his blogging, indeed in places almost his tweets, there is no barrier you can approach him with out prior knowledge - people have approached him with out prior knowledge for almost 2,000 years, so much so that I fear there is little novel here: be grateful, practise serenity, be kind to others, appreciate the order and structure of life, do your duty (like a Roman). The downside is you don't learn much about Marcus Aurelius, it is somehow so personal, private and interior that it has become indistinct and universal, suitable for fridge magnets or motivational posters anywhere.
I believe that formally Marcus was a a stoic, if his reflections in his book represent cutting edge stoic philosophy or the ponderings of a well educated individual of his day I don't know. In book eleven particularly he quotes Homer, Sophocles, Euripides and Plato, but he never mentions the famous Roman stoic Seneca. Perhaps Seneca was already forgotten by Aurelius' time or perhaps the issue of how to behave under the rule of an emperor was a bit too close to the bone for the Emperor.
As I mentioned in updates it reminded me in its stress on duty of what I have heard of the Bhagadvad Gita and I felt that Aurelius' : Worldnature, nature, world reason, cosmic purpose, gods, universal nature,mind of the universe, god... (a sample of the terms he seems to use for some kind of ordering principle in the universe) could all have been expressed as, or were reaching towards ideas of Dharma or Dao. Since this is a philosophical work, of sorts, or perhaps a religious one, I wondered if the translation was unhelpful - perhaps all these terms might have been rendered by one expression in the original, perhaps Logos (most famous now from the opening of the Gospel of Saint John), yet I think I read in the introduction that Marcus did use all these different terms even though, contextually they all appear to mean something similar if not identical.
Given this and the Tao Te Ching, I would have imagined that the Tao Te Ching was the one written by a canny Emperor, Marcus somehow often manages to sound like a harassed corporate drone forced to share a workbench with people who don't brush their teeth and who wash and change their clothes regularly - meaning once every nine weeks - (5:28) I could imagine it as the basis for a new US Sit-Com, maybe Aurelius: the customer service years, a slight change from his previous appearances in the films The Fall of the Roman Empire and Gladiator both of which downplay quite how odd Marcus' son the Emperor was (view spoiler) .
Marcus says that he thinks praying for three hours a day is sufficient, but it was unclear to me quite what he would be praying to, his universe otherwise seems fairly deterministic and the gods a part of that as much as the fig trees, horses and people, perhaps his prayer was more his spiritual practise to encourage the serenity, kindness, and indifference to death that he speaks of rather than requests to the gods.
Walking wet pavements observing (stoically of course) the flashes of lightening over the sky, I wondered if death and being forgotten (everybody who ever knew you also dying) was such a constant preoccupation in these writing because it was a prospect that he really feared, as it has happened this has preserved his memory fairly effectively.
Everything he says is created for some duty (8:19) even if we accept that this is so and easily definable for his examples of a horse and a vine, the question that he does not address is what about an Emperor? Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero were all emperors and all acted as though they had different conceptions of duty. But Marcus while exposing his innermost thoughts does not want to reveal what he thought his own duty as an Emperor was. For me it was not a case of Howards end is no the landing but Marcus Aurelius was on the dusty shelf, picked up for two GBP I don't recall when, probably in disreputable company.
At the same time I can not be completely comfortable with him. Mine [my concern], to be in friendship and charity with all men (11:13) he writes while fighting wars against the Marcomanni, Quadi and Samatians, so friendship and charity with not quite all men, I flicked through the relevant pages of Empires and Barbarians and saw that war began because they asked if they could enter the empire and had been refused, perhaps I am missing something here, also this was a period when punishments for crimes became harsher for those of lower social status, his self cultivation and personal serenity did not come into conflict with a conception of imperial duty that seems in practise to have been heavy handed (kindness is irresistible but he is partial to the decapitation of his enemies), perhaps for him there was no contradiction, he was no Ashokha (he says somewhere that you either have to improve people or put up with them, he does not seem to have tried improving them, that was not his duty). But his writings don't clarify his approach to authority and rule to me (view spoiler) .
I see here Marcus Aurelius for business: Meditations: Thoughts for Corporate Dominance this from the man who wrote (5:33) "all that men set their hearts on in this life is vanity, corruption and trash..."
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Reading Progress
November 11, 2018
–
Started Reading
November 11, 2018
– Shelved
November 12, 2018
–
42.71%
""it is difficult enough to put up with one's own self"
the Emperor though in book one did not express gratitude for everyone who puts up with him. Bad Emperor! Bad Stoic!"
page
82
the Emperor though in book one did not express gratitude for everyone who puts up with him. Bad Emperor! Bad Stoic!"
November 12, 2018
–
43.75%
""your mind will be like its habitual thoughts; for the soul becomes dyed with the colour of its thoughts"
in his case mostly focused on the inevitability of death and future non-existence, also the advisability of conformity with the Dao"
page
84
in his case mostly focused on the inevitability of death and future non-existence, also the advisability of conformity with the Dao"
November 12, 2018
–
50.0%
""6:22 I do that which it is my duty to do. Nothing else distracts me; for it will be either something that is inanimate & irrational, or somebody who is misled & ignorant of the way"
here I think of Daoism and the Bhagavad Gita, again."
page
96
here I think of Daoism and the Bhagavad Gita, again."
November 12, 2018
–
64.58%
""Nobody is surprised when a fig tree brings forth figs. similarly we ought to be ashamed of our surprise when the world produces its normal crop of happenings""
page
124
November 12, 2018
–
74.48%
""As a unit yourself, you help to complete the social whole and similarly, therefore, your every action should help to complete the social life""
page
143
November 13, 2018
–
88.54%
"11:13 "will any one sneer at me? That will be his concern...Will he perhaps hate me? Again, his concern. Mine, to be in friendship & charity with all men..."
"
page
170
"
November 13, 2018
–
90.1%
""Kindness is irresistible, so long as it be genuine & without false smiles or duplicity. The most consummate impudence can do nothing, if you remain persistently kind to the offender...'No, my son; it was not for this that we are made. I shall not be be hurt; it is yourself you are hurting'.""
page
173
November 13, 2018
–
Finished Reading
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Nov 13, 2018 02:08PM

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you could give it a try and if you don't like it just remember don't be surprised that you get figs from a fig tree


well you gave it a try :)

This is consistent with the impression I am getting as I reluctantly move forward in these meditations. Your review confirms that I won't be getting much inspiration from what I have yet to read.

no, it is not a good guide to how he achieves his serenity and can be kind or charitable towards others

Thanks, Jan-Maat for this clarification.

good if it makes it clearer! but just my opinion, perhaps someone more expert on stoicism would see it differently

And you say that he decapitated people? 0_0

And you say that he decapitated ..."
possibly not personally, I guess he had people to do that for him, and to clear up afterwards!
we can all like Marcus Aurelius, he seems quite nice and what he says is charming and decent - that is what worries me, it doesn't seem to have any relation to his actual life

good reading always shows maybe ;) but I do find the degree of disassociation from his own life odd, but maybe that was a feature of the philosophy of that period, perhaps it is a feature of all philosophy ? yet that is the interesting problem, surely a great challenge, can stoic philosophy be transformative or only lodge in the individual, Marcus suggests just the latter his philosophy seems to be were his head is at but not a guide to life or how to exist in society


Cfr. your answers on the discrepancy between ideas and man to Caroline and Lisa.

just a little, good luck with your search engine of choice