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Mario the lone bookwolf's Reviews > Debt: The First 5,000 Years

Debt by David Graeber
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it was amazing
bookshelves: 0-humanities, graeber-david, 0-social-criticism
Read 2 times

It´s so unintentional tragicomedy style that each kid can intuitively understand that there is a logical, inbuilt error in money, credit, and debt. As long as there was real, physical money and a limited amount of it, the system worked, but with more humans came paper and digital money and that made endlessly running central bank printing machines, stock markets, speculations,� possible and here we are.

And the mentioned, clever kid will ask: „How can something artificial and more ideologically cemented like fiat money grow forever on a limited system like earth? Won´t that destroy itself on the day exponential growth isn´t possible anymore and cause extreme, irreversible damage until then?�

And we will say: „…“or, more probably: „Shut up and go to your room!�

Yes, I know, my characterization is horrible, super smart kids like that seem improbable and a bit stereotypical, but the little guy did a great job in explaining why our system is totally nuts.

Agnostic nihilistic point of view: The machine is running, no chance to stop it, what will happen will happen, dont´waste time thinking about it.

Debt, credit, and the economic system didn´t get civilized, fine-tuned, and cultivated, the thousand year old creature of banking didn´t become philanthropic, instead the ultimate mammon worshiping machine cult ever has been established over the last centuries, sacrificing and killing everything in its way.

The author is a progressive, provoking anarchist and what he says has more substance, sense, and wisdom than anything one could take from reading economic or political propaganda, because it describes the core of the problem, the development of this scourge of humankind, how to enslave all for the profit of some.

Congratulations to Yale University for firing a brilliant mind like Graeber for saying the truth, that´s what I call a classic example of free wisdom and research in education. It´s too nasty to say things like this, taken from Wikipedia:

„In the year 1930, John Maynard Keynes predicted that, by century’s end, technology would have advanced sufficiently that countries like Great Britain or the United States would have achieved a 15-hour workweek. There’s every reason to believe he was right. In technological terms, we are quite capable of this. And yet it didn’t happen. Instead, technology has been marshaled, if anything, to figure out ways to make us all work more. In order to achieve this, jobs have had to be created that are, effectively, pointless. Huge swathes of people, in Europe and North America in particular, spend their entire working lives performing tasks they secretly believe do not really need to be performed. The moral and spiritual damage that comes from this situation is profound. It is a scar across our collective soul. Yet virtually no one talks about it.�

Or to add a quote that could be used with state instead of man too:

Rich man, poor man
faced each other in a van.
Said the poor man with a twitch:
Were I not poor, you wouldn't be rich

Bertold Brecht

German original
„Reicher Mann und armer Mann
standen da und sahn sich an.
Und der Arme sagte bleich
wär ich nicht arm, wärst du nicht reich.�

To be not sooo pessimistic, I ought mention the bright future with digital currencies, bitcoins, quantum cryptocurrency, blockchain,� that will transform banks and all the other necessities of money that makes it impossible for people to trust each other in something anyone can profit from.
But to end realistically, it might take a while until then and an expansion of the Nordic model over the world.

A wiki walk can be as refreshing to the mind as a walk through nature in this completely overrated real life outside books:



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Reading Progress

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January 11, 2019 – Shelved

Comments Showing 1-14 of 14 (14 new)

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message 1: by Pat (new)

Pat You are quite right Mario. I have often wondered how it is that people can make fortunes doing essentially nothing more than moving money around the world. They don’t create anything. It’s all just speculation for them but it can have terrible consequences downstream for real people!


Mario the lone bookwolf Pat (not getting friend updates currently) wrote: "You are quite right Mario. I have often wondered how it is that people can make fortunes doing essentially nothing more than moving money around the world. They don’t create anything. It’s all just..."

Thanks!
The terrible downstream consequences for real people you mention are kind of what human history looks like.


message 3: by Hanneke (new)

Hanneke Very interesting review, Mario. I do like your quote about the rich man and the poor man! Well, isn’t that a solid truth!


message 4: by Mario the lone bookwolf (last edited Jul 31, 2021 08:27AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mario the lone bookwolf Hanneke wrote: "Very interesting review, Mario. I do like your quote about the rich man and the poor man! Well, isn’t that a solid truth!"

Thanks!
Yes, it are quite sick systems we hairless, greedy apes are hooked on.


Wick Welker This is high on my tbr


Mario the lone bookwolf Wick wrote: "This is high on my tbr"

This and his work bullshit jobs are such heavy armor that no fringe pop sociology voodoo economy drivel can attack any of the arguments. Their only chance is to ignore it and hope that the word doesn´t spread.


message 7: by Graeme (new)

Graeme Rodaughan Our current monetary system has mostly operated as it was designed to operate, however I believe (rather than know) that negative interest rates were not part of the original design and are an unplanned corner case that is currently being explored by the world.

I.e. The monetary system, if not already broken, may be about to break. This in itself need not be a disaster (but probably will be), as it depends upon the methods, and outcomes of the shift from one monetary system to the next.

That said, I've long held the view that a system that requires continuous (and hence infinite) growth to survive has its own destruction built into it.

I don't think people realise that money is just a system, like the operating system of a computer. Windows can be swapped for Linux, and the machine will still run - but differently.


Mario the lone bookwolf Graeme wrote: "Our current monetary system has mostly operated as it was designed to operate, however I believe (rather than know) that negative interest rates were not part of the original design and are an unpl..."

Negative interest rates, and the easy manipulation of inflation from hyper to meh, causing devastating, mega financial crises and everything between crusades and world wars, show what a fraud the whole financial system thing is.

It probably will be not as easy as to just change the operating system, it will have to be changes so fundamental towards a fairer, post scarcity society that will be deferred as anyhow possible.

Just as Graeber shows in bullshit jobs, more and more useless work will be produced although everything could already be automated. But that would mean taxing robots, machines, and AIs and the people owning them don´t want that, so they´ll keep billions of people working for more centuries although that´s already unnecessary at the moment. It´s an extreme, incredible perversion.


message 9: by Joe (new)

Joe Krakovsky The fathers of my country said that only gold and silver should be money for a reason. People can say what they want, but since paper money and central banks came along the world economy has gone down hill. The rich get richer and the poor and middle class get poorer.


message 10: by Mario the lone bookwolf (last edited Aug 02, 2021 01:46PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mario the lone bookwolf Joe wrote: "The fathers of my country said that only gold and silver should be money for a reason. People can say what they want, but since paper money and central banks came along the world economy has gone d..."

That´s one of the first times we totally agree on something and that´s an impressive proof of the quality of this work.

As you say, looking at the history of central banks and especially who founded and promoted them, there is no reason to give any trust in a system built by extremely dangerous and greedy people.


message 11: by Wick (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wick Welker Just finished. Brilliant book.


message 12: by Graeme (new)

Graeme Rodaughan Mario the lone bookwolf wrote: "As you say, looking at the history of central banks and especially who founded and promoted them, there is no reason to give any trust in a system built by extremely dangerous and greedy people...."

They defined the desired functions and the architecture follows.


message 13: by Mario the lone bookwolf (last edited Oct 09, 2021 09:56AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mario the lone bookwolf Graeme wrote: "Mario the lone bookwolf wrote: "As you say, looking at the history of central banks and especially who founded and promoted them, there is no reason to give any trust in a system built by extremely..."

and thereby determined our current and future social and cultural evolution.


Mario the lone bookwolf Wick wrote: "Just finished. Brilliant book."

Definitively, it points the finger at the bad design of ,well, most of history.


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