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Ian's Reviews > We

We by Yevgeny Zamyatin
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it was amazing
bookshelves: 5-star-fiction, fiction, futurism

I became interested in this novel after I learned that Orwell read it before starting work on �1984�. Having now read “We�, I might re-read Orwell’s masterpiece.

The edition I read had a translator’s note, which explained that Zamyatin used certain sounds in language to convey certain concepts, and that this plays a significant role in the original. That seems to me to pose more than the usual issues for a translator. In addition, Zamyatin’s future society, called in this version “The One State�, is run on mathematical principles, and contains numerous references to such. Individuals are called “ciphers�, conveying the message they are no more than bits of code, that combine to make up the wider society. There are also chunks of the novel where the lead character, a male “cipher� called D-503, has dreamlike or hallucinogenic experiences. Lastly, Zamyatin frequently uses a style of broken dialogue, from which the reader has to infer meaning. We got lots of extracts like “I must not…I somehow have to…� or “I don’t want…you understand…I don’t want to…I agree to…� The overall effect is that the book is written in a, shall we say, distinctive style.

The plot centres on a relationship between D-503 and a female called I-330. Parallels have been drawn with the lead characters from �1984� and I would agree there are similarities between I-330 and Julia, although personally I thought I-330’s character was not as well-developed. D-503 though, is a different sort of person from Winston Smith.

I found the story compelling, and towards the end read on eagerly to find out what transpires. For all that, it was probably the setting of the book that interested me most. The life of The One State is governed by a “Table of Hours�. People are woken at the same time, work the same hours, eat meals at the same time, go to sleep at the same time, take compulsory exercise at the same time, attend lectures at the same time, etc. This was very much the sort of society that people like Mao Zedong and Pol Pot aspired to, and I think Zamyatin, writing in 1921, was very perceptive in seeing this form of society as a potential endpoint to communism. Within the Table of Hours though, there are two “imperfections� - two hours in every 24 are allowed for personal activities. One of these is for the purposes of sex. Ciphers are allocated “sex days� and cannot refuse a request from another person, as everyone must be treated equally. Again, in our present day I have seen Internet arguments that are quite close to this position.

Another difference between this novel and �1984� is that Ingsoc London was not just repressive but also a place of squalor and poverty. By contrast, The One State has eliminated crime and poverty, though at the cost of the elimination of individual freedom. One of the major themes of the book is whether humans actually prefer order to freedom. I have shared highlights to illustrate.

One thing that did strike me is that the police force of The One State was considerably less effective than Orwell’s Thought Police. Maybe this was a reflection of Zamyatin’s time. When the novel was written, the terrifying efficiency of the NKVD or the Gestapo was still a decade or so in the future.

The unusual, and sometimes clunky, style of this novel means that it won’t be for everyone. It was a great choice for me though.
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Reading Progress

December 4, 2020 – Started Reading
December 4, 2020 – Shelved
December 6, 2020 –
page 89
39.38%
December 9, 2020 – Shelved as: 5-star-fiction
December 9, 2020 – Shelved as: fiction
December 9, 2020 – Finished Reading
December 12, 2023 – Shelved as: futurism

Comments Showing 1-15 of 15 (15 new)

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message 1: by Beata (new)

Beata A most interesting choice, Ian :)) Looking forward to your review :)


message 2: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian Beata wrote: "A most interesting choice, Ian :)) Looking forward to your review :)"

Yes, thanks Beata. I'm about half way through it now. A strange novel. As usual I have lots and lots of thoughts, which I am going to have to try and assemble into some form of coherent comment.


Orhan Pelinkovic Ian, you really caught my attention with your excellent review! What a interesting book and style of writing. I am not proud to say that I haven't heard that this book exists. What do think, did Orwell 'steal' Zamyatin's idea and more?


message 4: by Ilse (new) - added it

Ilse Great review and fascinating analysis, Ian. The novel has been sleeping on my shelves for years and I am curious to discover how the distinctive style has been translated into Dutch. Like Orhan, I wonder in which degree Orwell acknowledged being influenced by 'We' - as I believe quite a few other dystopian novels were. Was Zamyatin able to have it published in 1921 and did he pass the purges unharmed?


message 5: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian Orhan wrote: "Ian, you really caught my attention with your excellent review! What a interesting book and style of writing. I am not proud to say that I haven't heard that this book exists. What do think, did Or..."

Thank you so much Orhan! I only discovered this book, via GR, a couple of years ago, and I felt the same way as you. ŷ has a way of highlighting my ignorance of world literature.

It's a long time since I read 1984, and I plan to reread it now. Orwell not only read but also reviewed "We" so he may well have taken the broad idea of a future dystopia from it. Overall though, there are many differences between the two novels. At the opening of "We", D-503 is a happy and integrated member of The One State, or at least he believes himself to be. Winston Smith, on the other hand, starts off as a rebel, if only in his own mind.

One feature I didn't mention in my review was that there are elements of humour in Zamyatin's novel. For example, The One State, being obsessed with order, regards railway timetables as the "great literary epics" of "the Ancients". I don't recall anything that light-hearted in "1984".


message 6: by Ian (last edited Dec 09, 2020 01:28PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian Ilse wrote: "Great review and fascinating analysis, Ian. The novel has been sleeping on my shelves for years and I am curious to discover how the distinctive style has been translated into Dutch. Like Orhan, I ..."

Thank you very much Ilse!

In the time of the Tsars, Zamyatin was a revolutionary and was frequently imprisoned, but he was one of those original Bolsheviks who was horrified at the repression applied by the new Soviet government. In the early 1920s he asked for permission to emigrate and perhaps surprisingly this was granted. Maybe his request was early enough to have escaped the levels of repression that came later. He died in Paris in 1937, apparently in poverty.

Although written in Russian, the book was first published in English translation in 1924. I understand it wasn't published in Russian until 1988.


message 7: by J.C. (new)

J.C. What a brilliant review, Ian. I wouldn't like this book because of the style and the decimation of language, but I can see how important it is. I think the touches of humour you mention that are not in "1984" were more likely to belong to an earlier period - and the idea that poverty will be eliminated. Orwell knew better - look at the poverty in the UK today - for some, actual destitution.
Thanks for enlarging my knowledge (as you always do!).


message 8: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian J.C. wrote: "What a brilliant review, Ian. I wouldn't like this book because of the style and the decimation of language, but I can see how important it is. I think the touches of humour you mention that are no..."

Thank you so much Jeanne! The number of people in Britain in absolute poverty is far reduced from 100 years ago, but society must keep working to reduce it further. I don't know how relative poverty today compares with a century ago- I suspect it may actually be greater today. People in relative poverty feel themselves to be poor, with all that goes along with that, even if in absolute terms they are better off than most people in history.

I plan to revisit "1984" early in the New Year.


message 9: by Anna (new) - added it

Anna Great review Ian! It has been on my TBR for a while now but your review makes me want to read it rather sooner than later. I read �1984� many years ago, probably not so long after 1984, when I could still clearly see the similarities between the “dystopia� in the book and the leaving, breathing reality in the country I was born in. Not so long ago, since it keeps surfacing in GR, I tried to re-read �1984� and gave up because now I can see too many similarities between the horrors of a thought controlled society and our current Internet powered reality. But still I keep being tempted, perhaps I will do as you did, read “We� and then try to revisit �1984�.


message 10: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian Anna wrote: "Great review Ian! It has been on my TBR for a while now but your review makes me want to read it rather sooner than later. I read �1984� many years ago, probably not so long after 1984, when I coul..."

Thank you very much Anna. People like me are lucky indeed that we can read read books like "1984" with a detachment not possible for someone who actually had to live behind the Iron Curtain.

I think your point about about the possibilities of the Internet is very perceptive. Earlier this year I read an article in "Wired" magazine about how American academic journals were removing back copies of publications that contained articles with results that conflict with modern thinking. One publication was removed because it contained a commentary that opposed affirmative action. The article in Wired wholly supported the removal of these articles, though I couldn't help being reminded of Winston Smith's job in "1984".


message 11: by J.C. (new)

J.C. Powerful points to Anna, Ian.


message 12: by Anna (new) - added it

Anna Ian wrote: "Anna wrote: "Great review Ian! It has been on my TBR for a while now but your review makes me want to read it rather sooner than later. I read �1984� many years ago, probably not so long after 1984..."

I can only agree Ian, that is exactly what I had in mind too. And please forgive me for taking such a long time between answers...
The free world doesn’t seem to be particularly keen on preserving its freedom of expression any more. Perhaps that’s because once you get used to it, it loses its charm, gets old and unattractive, and is taken for granted. And then, it is not much of a problem to give it up, since whoever knows what it is needed for anyway �? In that case, losing it, would perhaps be the only way to realize its value. But let's hope it doesn’t come to that.
Hope you’re enjoying Christmas although we are in such strange circumstances, wish you all the best!


message 13: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian Anna wrote: "Ian wrote: "Anna wrote: "Great review Ian! It has been on my TBR for a while now but your review makes me want to read it rather sooner than later. I read �1984� many years ago, probably not so lon..."

Yes, let's hope it doesn't come to that, although like you I have worries. Many young people in particular seem to think it would be desirable to live in a society where dissenting opinions are suppressed.

Thanks for the Christmas wishes Anna, and likewise, Compliments of the Season to you and yours.


Cecily Excellent review, especially your points about Zedong, Pol Pot and incel attitudes to sex.

"Having now read “We�, I might re-read Orwell’s masterpiece."
I'm pondering that decision: I fear Orwell's will feel a dark and unsubtle imitation.

I read the same edition of this as you did and, like you, found Randall's translator's notes very enlightening.


message 15: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian Cecily wrote: "Excellent review, especially your points about Zedong, Pol Pot and incel attitudes to sex.

"Having now read “We�, I might re-read Orwell’s masterpiece."
I'm pondering that decision: I fear Orwell'..."


Thank you very much Cecily.

I did re-read 1984 and I was still impressed by it. Different from Zamyatin's book in that Orwell did not extend communism into an endpoint in the far future, but stuck to creating a variant of real-life Stalinism as it still existed at the time Orwell wrote. It was a Stalinism taken to new heights (or should that be depths) by future technology, but a technology that was not that different from what already existed. Ingsoc London was a setting sufficiently close to real life as to be recognisable in a scary way - a warning that "this could happen in the very near future" that still seemed plausible during my teenage years in the 1970s. At least it did to me. Also it was only when I re-read it that I realised how much of 1984 was inspired by Orwell's experiences in Spain, and by real-life events like the Nazi-Soviet Pact.


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