Sign in with Facebook
Nataliya's Reviews > The Waste Land
The Waste Land
by
by
You guys. YOU GUYS. So this is where all those lines come from? “April is the cruelest month�, “I will show you fear in a handful of dust� and “Consider Phlebas�?
Well, damn.
I was a science major in college, and took humanities courses for fun, but neither one of my two required English classes covered this poem. And so I missed out on deep analysis or even just not too deep explanation. Because I just read it four times in a row � and no, I don’t get it. I tried to read some annotations, and I just don’t get it. I even found three different Russian translations of this poem hoping that a different language would help elucidate meaning. And still no luck � even after resultant seven(!!!) times reading it. Individual bits make sense (sometimes) but the big picture, the gestalt, escapes me. Unless it’s not supposed to come together, in which case I’m cool.
I may be a tad suspicious of poetry that requires extensive annotations to get it. Apparently the poem alone is under 20 pages but there is a 320 page book with annotations for it??? I can just picture Eliot rubbing his hands together and giggling in the supervillain-like manner over the image of generations of English scholars mining the poem for meaning.
But hey, the opening four lines are just amazing; there’s absolutely nothing about them that isn’t perfect:
I mean, I don’t even care that reading it seven times in a row, in two different languages, left me confused. Those four lines with that rhythm and cadence and whatever that literary trick of ending those lines like that � those alone are worth it.
Oh, and this one caught my attention:
Yeah. Beautiful. And frustratingly difficult.
But now I can feel all smug knowing where the quotable lines come from, even if I still have no clue about what it actually *is*.
Star ratings? These are meaningless here. So 4 stars for 4 perfect opening lines.
—ĔĔĔĔ�
Also posted on .
Well, damn.
I was a science major in college, and took humanities courses for fun, but neither one of my two required English classes covered this poem. And so I missed out on deep analysis or even just not too deep explanation. Because I just read it four times in a row � and no, I don’t get it. I tried to read some annotations, and I just don’t get it. I even found three different Russian translations of this poem hoping that a different language would help elucidate meaning. And still no luck � even after resultant seven(!!!) times reading it. Individual bits make sense (sometimes) but the big picture, the gestalt, escapes me. Unless it’s not supposed to come together, in which case I’m cool.
Ahhh, that’s a good line.
I may be a tad suspicious of poetry that requires extensive annotations to get it. Apparently the poem alone is under 20 pages but there is a 320 page book with annotations for it??? I can just picture Eliot rubbing his hands together and giggling in the supervillain-like manner over the image of generations of English scholars mining the poem for meaning.
But hey, the opening four lines are just amazing; there’s absolutely nothing about them that isn’t perfect:
“April is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.�
I mean, I don’t even care that reading it seven times in a row, in two different languages, left me confused. Those four lines with that rhythm and cadence and whatever that literary trick of ending those lines like that � those alone are worth it.
Oh, and this one caught my attention:
“And upside down in air were towers
Tolling reminiscent bells, that kept the hours
And voices singing out of empty cisterns and exhausted wells.�
Yeah. Beautiful. And frustratingly difficult.
But now I can feel all smug knowing where the quotable lines come from, even if I still have no clue about what it actually *is*.
Star ratings? These are meaningless here. So 4 stars for 4 perfect opening lines.
—ĔĔĔĔ�
Also posted on .
Sign into ŷ to see if any of your friends have read
The Waste Land.
Sign In »
Reading Progress
February 4, 2021
– Shelved
February 6, 2021
–
Started Reading
February 6, 2021
–
Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-48 of 48 (48 new)
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
John
(new)
Feb 06, 2021 01:08PM
Unfortunately I did have to read it for an English lit class, and that really took most of the fun out of it ("there will be a quiz..."). I'm impressed that you researched different translations--I wonder what the translators got out of the poem!
reply
|
flag
John wrote: "Unfortunately I did have to read it for an English lit class, and that really took most of the fun out of it ("there will be a quiz..."). I'm impressed that you researched different translations--I..."So maybe it’s good then that I didn’t experience this for an English class � although some insight and explanation probably would have helped and after the first read through I was just like, “Huh???�
The three different translations were actually interesting and highlighted different bits of the poem fragments. The Lil and Albert section was particularly interesting in translation, and when I went back to the original after the translation, I noted more details.
Kerry wrote: "T.S.Anon"Huh?
Hard to understand cryptic writing given to over extensive "interpretation.'
Kerry wrote: "Hard to understand cryptic writing given to over extensive "interpretation.'"Ah, I see. It looks to be enough interpretation to fill 300 pages of commentary, but I don’t think I’d have enough stamina for that.
Love this review Nataliya =) (Especially how you instantly picked out the “Consider Phlebas� line—nerding out on sci-fi, I’m here for it!)
Nevermind. Listening to NYT podcast that discussed Qanon and how much effort and discussion is given to its understanding by followers of the... postings. While Eliot is not a the same as internet jabber, the wtf are you talking about aspect may be the same. But this is much too complex, so nevermind. Eliot sounds too complex for me. Thanks for your wonderful reviews. Always a pleasure.
So this is where all those lines come from?That's how I feel when I read the Bible. I never realized our literature's debt to the Old Testament until I actually read parts of it in adulthood.
Poetry is not intended to make any sense. It is the dirty secret poets keep. Their superior smirks and condescendingly arched brows are signals to the hoi polloi that They Are Deep.Never mind, you've read it now. You don't ever have to again.
Kerry wrote: "Nevermind. Listening to NYT podcast that discussed Qanon and how much effort and discussion is given to its understanding by followers of the... postings. While Eliot is not a the same as internet ..."I prefer to remain as ignorant of the rabbit hole that QAnon is as possible. But isn’t it amazing how attractive conspiracy theories have always been to people? What exactly in our psyches gets all excited at the ideas of huge secret conspiracies?
Kevin Lopez wrote: "Love this review Nataliya =) (Especially how you instantly picked out the “Consider Phlebas� line—nerding out on sci-fi, I’m here for it!)"
Consider Phlebas has been on my radar for a while.
Maybe this poem is a sign that I should finally read it?
Left Coast Justin wrote: "So this is where all those lines come from?That's how I feel when I read the Bible. I never realized our literature's debt to the Old Testament until I actually read parts of it in adulthood."
I’ve read the children’s version when my age was in single digits, and never got through the nonabridged version. But thanks to Google I can refresh my memories when anything I read references a biblical story.
Richard wrote: "Poetry is not intended to make any sense. It is the dirty secret poets keep. Their superior smirks and condescendingly arched brows are signals to the hoi polloi that They Are Deep.Never mind, yo..."
Hehe, I suspected that.
But seriously, I liked Russian poetry � Eugene Onegin is really good. But modernist poetry � that’s a whole different beast. Regardless, those 4 opening lines are pure beauty and deserve all the love. Even if the rest of the poem eludes my mental efforts.
Kevin Lopez wrote: "I’d say it is!"And I just found out that my library has an e-book copy. It’s meant to be! So many books, so little time...
Nataliya wrote: "But isn’t it amazing how attractive conspiracy theories have always been to people?"Funny you should mention that. Michiko Kakutani selected the book, The Paranoid Style in American Politics and Other Essays as one of 100 plus books to read in her new book, Ex Libris: 100+ Books to Read and Reread. This 1964 book apparently traces this conspiracy history in America (I.e. ...ever hear of the Know-Nothing Party from 1855?). Kakutani writes, "Hofstadter's work uncannily anticipate the birth of the Tea Party movement and the populist, anti-immigrant nativism inflamed and exploited by Donald Trump."
The Waste Land in a nutshell. I've actually spent a lot of time thinking about this:Society is going to Hell (viz toothless old crones in bars, zit-faced couples fucking in canoes along the polluted Thames, Central European royalty have fallen on hard times, death is stalking us around every corner)
Goddamn Jews;
The only hope is faith in God
(Note that I'm trying to explain it and not endorse it.)
Tying this all back to your preferred genre of science fiction, HP Lovecraft wrote a parody called "Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance"
Kerry wrote: "Nataliya wrote: "But isn’t it amazing how attractive conspiracy theories have always been to people?"Funny you should mention that. Michiko Kakutani selected the book, [book:The Paranoid Style in..."
Interesting. I guess paranoia sells.
Left Coast Justin wrote: "The Waste Land in a nutshell. I've actually spent a lot of time thinking about this:Society is going to Hell (viz toothless old crones in bars, zit-faced couples fucking in canoes along the pollu..."
Yikes, Justin. I think I preferred my “I have absolutely no idea� take on that. Yikes, that’s bleak.
"Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance"by He Who (For Legal Reasons) Must Not Be Named
Thanks for the rec.
chvang wrote: ""Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance"by He Who (For Legal Reasons) Must Not Be Named
Thanks for the rec."
Hehe, that’s very much appropriate.
Thanks! But mostly because I'm reading Waste Land yet again (hopefully not 7!), thank you (again). It's a moveable feast.
![[Name Redacted]](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1347082397p1/287915.jpg)
I think this might just be a matter of cultural differences. In the same way that, despite living in Latin America for years and immersing myself in the great literature and cultural moments, I still do not understand the fondness for puns...
[Name Redacted] wrote: "I think this might just be a matter of cultural differences. In the same way that, despite living in Latin America for years and immersing myself in the great literature and cultural moments, I sti..."Nah, I think it’s me not quite getting modernist poetry and not as much cultural differences. Those are usually not the issue; at this point about half of my life was spent in the US and I think I’m pretty well caught up. I think it’s Elliot’s flight of fancy versus my concrete reasoning.
chvang wrote: "Thanks! But mostly because I'm reading Waste Land yet again (hopefully not 7!), thank you (again). It's a moveable feast."It’s so short, it takes almost no time to read it even 7 times in a row. So at least that was good :)
I'm sad to admit that I still haven't tried to read The Waste Land. It was built up during my education as this great, incomprehensible poem, and I just had no desire to tackle it. That said, I adore much of Eliot's poetry (especially Prufrock, which is one of the few perfect poems ever written), so I don't know why I've been afraid of it all these years. I mean, I read Gothic fiction for fun. I should be able to handle the Waste Land . . .
Nan wrote: "I'm sad to admit that I still haven't tried to read The Waste Land. It was built up during my education as this great, incomprehensible poem, and I just had no desire to tackle it. That said, I ado..."Honestly, the only reason I decided to tackle it was that the lines from it were mentioned in Adrian Tchaikovsky’s Firewalkers. And even if it’s incomprehensible (and given an interpretation by a friend of mine, I’d rather it stay incomprehensible), I’m still glad I read it.
Hi! Glad you are looking at Eliot's beautiful but bleak poem. Good to remember that a lot of early 20th century western art was vastly informed by the first World War and the changing sensibilities and technologies at the time. Further reading:to wit: ' Widely regarded as the most influential poem of the 20th century, the 432-line poem is a work permeated by the shadow of the first World War. The title of the poem is a barely-veiled allusion to the devastation of the war; the poem itself, a metaphor for the devastated landscape of post-war Europe.
Its famous opening line, an ironic rewriting of the opening image of Chaucer’s prologue to The Canterbury Tales, contains a sense of what is to come in this sad, desolate work.'
happy reading!
Eric wrote: "Hi! Glad you are looking at Eliot's beautiful but bleak poem. Good to remember that a lot of early 20th century western art was vastly informed by the first World War and the changing sensibilities..."Thanks for linking to that article, Eric. It’s really interesting. It does give a bit of perspective.
It's a brilliant, brilliant, poem. It's chillingly relevant. I doubt if I'd ever stop interpreting it.
Darshana wrote: "It's a brilliant, brilliant, poem. It's chillingly relevant. I doubt if I'd ever stop interpreting it."You are welcome to share your interpretations. I’m curious!
^ Oh, I like that description! “Opaque poetry�. That’s quite fitting.
Ah, you're not being fair. "A Game of Chess" is a pretty straightforward story about a certain kind of relationship.
I think that what is being described is (most of the way through) quite straightforward -- the opacity is the what all these descriptions are trying to tell us. (Speaking for myself, not for Nataliya). I haven't figured out how Marie, in The Burial of the Dead, fits in, for example.
Manny wrote: "Ah, you're not being fair. "A Game of Chess" is a pretty straightforward story about a certain kind of relationship."There seem to be a few of those seemingly straightforward stories � but then the problem for me became seeing how they all fit into the larger structure. Then upthread it was suggested that all of this is Elliot’s lamentations about the amoral post-WWI times.
Basically � O Tempora! O mores!
Left Coast Justin wrote: "the opacity is the what all these descriptions are trying to tell us. (Speaking for myself, not for Nataliya)"You’re speaking for me as well here, I hope. Where all these fit in the grander scheme is the question.
Eliot had stalled on it until his father died. This prompted Eliot to finish it out of a sense of personal grief and depression, as anything else.
So many books, so little time...Story of my life!!
(@Kerry, thanks for the Michiko Kakutani rec!)
Michael wrote: "Eliot had stalled on it until his father died. This prompted Eliot to finish it out of a sense of personal grief and depression, as anything else."Good to know. It may explain the darker tone.
Kevin Lopez wrote: "So many books, so little time...Story of my life!!
(@Kerry, thanks for the Michiko Kakutani rec!)"
I wish I could figure out how to go without sleep so that I can have extra 6-7 hours of reading time every day.
When you find out let me know!
I agree 100% with this review!! LOVE the opening lines, have no clue what the whole thing is supposed to be about, but there are several lines that are very beautiful, and it's overall a pleasant reading experience.
Anne wrote: "I agree 100% with this review!! LOVE the opening lines, have no clue what the whole thing is supposed to be about, but there are several lines that are very beautiful, and it's overall a pleasant r..."I’m glad I’m not the only one :)
There is no whole thing. Seriously. The whole narrative s the lack of narrative. It is like a choir of voices, each on a different city, singing different songs, in different languages, but in the same melody. It is about the lack of a meaning in the West after WWI and how nothing unites us; the lack of a central narrative symbolizes the lack of a narrative for us, in the real world.
Andre wrote: "There is no whole thing. Seriously. The whole narrative s the lack of narrative. It is like a choir of voices, each on a different city, singing different songs, in different languages, but in the ..."That's not true. There's a very distinct structure and sequence to the poem.
If you actually want to get a sense of what's going on, I recommend Elizabeth Drew's chapter on the poem in her T.S. Eliot: The Design of His Poetry and Martin Scofield's in his T.S. Eliot - the poems
