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Caroline's Reviews > 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos

12 Rules for Life by Jordan B. Peterson
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Peterson is an incredibly Marmite-y figure at the moment. Half the world curse him as an alt-right, anti-feminist ranter, whilst the other half welcome him as a breath of fresh air. He puts backsides on seats, giving talks to audiences of thousands of people. He has now given up his academic career as professor of psychology at Toronto University, to write and to tour the world giving talks to the public.

I found this book Marmite-y too, not in the sense that I loved or hated it, but rather in the sense that I kept agreeing and disagreeing fairly vehemently with his ideas - to the extent it was a rather bumpy read. A lot of the book is encouraging people to be their best selves, with self-help and how-to-live-your-best-life aphorisms, which I found helpful. On the other hand I found the dichotomy he created between Order and Chaos to be a bit odd, and the way he described 'order' as masculine and 'chaos' as feminine to be even more odd.

He is provocative. I was interested in what he said about hierarchy, and that being the natural state of society amongst humans, from our early history down to today. He didn't say much though about ameliorating this state of affairs, but rather that we should accept that people are hugely diverse in their talents and abilities, and in the levels of success they will achieve. In a culture where guilt is often regarded as neurotic, he argues that without the experience of guilt we would be psychopaths. He believes that cultures evolve over vast stretches of time, and that in jettisoning old traditions we can cause problems. "We tinker with our ways of social being without appreciated the long term effects." One of the major themes in the book is that he is adamant that people should speak the truth at all times, which gave me something to think about. I would have found it helpful if he'd elaborated on that some more.

He refers to the Bible on several occasions, he says it was "thrown up, out of the deep by the collective human imagination." He goes on to say that "its careful and respectful study can reveal things to us about what we believe and how we do and should act that can be discovered in almost no other manner." At several points in the book he uses Bible stories to illustrate what he sees as human or psychological truths, (and I think he has done a series of lectures based on the Bible too.)

I can easily see why some people love or hate Peterson's ideas, they are both original and provocative. However my main criticism of the book is pedestrian. He never says anything in ten words when he can use fifty.

I haven't taken my usual notes for the book - but Sean Goh's review gives some excellent notes for anyone who is interested.

/review/show...

Peterson's talks and interviews are interesting, and the best one I think was a podcast with Matt Ridley...

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February 22, 2021 – Shelved
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February 23, 2021 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-16 of 16 (16 new)

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message 1: by Ian (new)

Ian He makes a good point about feelings of guilt. Not sure about telling the truth all the time though.


Caroline Ian wrote: "He makes a good point about feelings of guilt. Not sure about telling the truth all the time though."

I think I would have preferred perhaps an inclusion of the importance of listening to other people's understanding of the truth too. Plus I am not a fan of brutal honesty. A bit of tact can go a long way.


Jeanette (Ms. Feisty) It made me laugh to look up "Marmitey" and find that it's a word in actual use. We don't eat Marmite here in the US, but I don't think I would like it.
If he thinks order is masculine and chaos is feminine, he's living on a different planet!


message 4: by John (new)

John Kaufmann I have been reluctant to give this book a try. I listened to a podcast interview with him, and watched an interview on YoutTube, and thought he was angry and in-your-face feisty. I've had enough of that over in politics the last several years.


Caroline Jeanette (Again) wrote: "It made me laugh to look up "Marmitey" and find that it's a word in actual use. We don't eat Marmite here in the US, but I don't think I would like it.
If he thinks order is masculine and chaos is..."


Oh wow, I didn't know that Marmitey was a word either, I thought I'd just made it up (the concept of Marmite being a love-or-hate product is a common understanding over here.) But you're right - I just googled it, and there it was! I'm am one of the Marmite lovers BTW. Spread thinly on buttered toast it is extremely yummy.

Yes, the Order/Chaos, Masculine/Feminine thing was very odd to me too.


Caroline John wrote: "I have been reluctant to give this book a try. I listened to a podcast interview with him, and watched an interview on YoutTube, and thought he was angry and in-your-face feisty. I've had enough of..."

Yes, you're right, he can come across as being heated and sometimes angry. Plus he has some quite provocative ideas. I'm glad I read the book though.


Jeanette (Ms. Feisty) Caroline wrote: " I'm am one of the Marmite lovers BTW. Spread thinly on buttered toast it is extremely yummy."

I'm generally not fond of yeasty flavors. As a vegan, I run across a lot of recipes calling for nutritional yeast ("nooch"), often as a sub for the flavor of cheese. I have to be careful not to use much nooch because I end up throwing the food away after it sits in the fridge overnight and develops that yeastiness.


message 8: by Caroline (last edited Feb 24, 2021 11:09PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Caroline Jeanette (Again) wrote: "Caroline wrote: " I'm am one of the Marmite lovers BTW. Spread thinly on buttered toast it is extremely yummy."

I'm generally not fond of yeasty flavors. As a vegan, I run across a lot of recipes ..."


Ah, okay, you're definitely not a prospective enjoyer of Marmite! I do like the term "nooch". Plus if its matures into imparting yeasty flavours that for me is a plus.


message 9: by Jenna (new)

Jenna ❤ ❀  ❤ This is an incredibly interesting review, Caroline! I was ready to add it to the tbr pile when your words "He never says anything in ten words when he can use fifty." stopped me.... after just sloughing through a needlessly long Victor Hugo novel, I don't think I have patience for more long-windedness.


Caroline Jenna wrote: "This is an incredibly interesting review, Caroline! I was ready to add it to the tbr pile when your words "He never says anything in ten words when he can use fifty." stopped me.... after just slou..."

Yup, the verbosity gets very irritating after a while!


message 11: by CanadianReader (new)

CanadianReader Sorry I missed this earlier, Caroline. He’s a controversial figure here for sure. He raised quite a ruckus at the U of T for refusing to cooperate with the Woke pronoun police—for which I give him credit. And apparently young people at a Canadian publishing house, can’t remember which one, were protesting the fact that the publisher had taken on his next book. He certainly isn’t wrong about identity politics and ideology hijacking academia. Having said all that, I find him dogmatic and hectoring. He has such an awful voice that I can’t bear listening to him for more than a few minutes.

I like that you highlighted some of his ideas. I quite agree: some examples were in order for his advocating truth-telling at all times. He seems quite a black and white thinker, and I suspect that’s his appeal to some.

I cannot say why people feel so threatened by him.


message 12: by Caroline (last edited Feb 28, 2021 12:12AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Caroline Canadian Reader wrote: "Sorry I missed this earlier, Caroline. He’s a controversial figure here for sure. He raised quite a ruckus at the U of T for refusing to cooperate with the Woke pronoun police—for which I give him ..."

I agree with much of what you said... I think the reason a lot of people find him upsetting is that his attitude towards women can be quite questionable and he does voice his opinions in quite heated tones. For instance he questions the liberalizing of divorce laws in the 1960s, instead advocating that couples stay together for the children, and he says words to the effect that women are attracted to strong men, as shown by the extraordinary success of Fifty Shades of Grey. I haven't read this book, but feel that I could happily argue against these points. I also think the whole Order/Chaos, Masculine/Feminine thing is questionable. I'm sure his attitude to identity politics also hasn't helped (although like you, I have sympathy with that.)

Most of the above refers to issues I felt negative about. There is a lot in the book that I liked as well, and he has a way of making you think freshly about all sorts of things - which is always a pleasure.


message 13: by CanadianReader (new)

CanadianReader He’s stunningly arrogant for thinking that he can speak for women. Fifty Shades of Grey, a book glorifying sadomasochism, as evidence of women’s attraction to strong men (as if that were strength). Give me a break. (I haven’t read it by the way! 😉) Liberalizing of divorce laws questionable? I had no idea. I think I was aware of his concern over children not having both parents, and I believe there is some evidence that boys in particular are more vulnerable.


message 14: by Caroline (last edited Feb 28, 2021 03:36AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Caroline Canadian Reader wrote: "He’s stunningly arrogant for thinking that he can speak for women. Fifty Shades of Grey, a book glorifying sadomasochism, as evidence of women’s attraction to strong men (as if that were strength)...."

Ha ha, you voiced your concerns brilliantly well, and I would wholeheartedly agree! I too have heard that children thrive best with two parents, and perhaps there are things that could be done in our culture to promote this - but I'm not sure that being in a family with one or two very unhappy or fighting parents is a good alternative.

I was interested in what you said about him being a black and white thinker, and how this could appeal to some people - I hadn't thought of that, but I think you're right.


message 15: by Am (new) - added it

Am Y Fantastic review! Thanks for the links!


message 16: by Caroline (last edited Apr 04, 2021 03:33PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Caroline Am wrote: "Fantastic review! Thanks for the links!"

You're welcome!


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