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How blunt Sir..that's what a criticism should be..the writer is not our cousin, so we can show sympathy..your reviews are always results of deep reading..

Thank you Manu! I should add that I greatly enjoyed this book, even it it is the purest nonsense.

Manny wrote: "Thank you Manu! I should add that I greatly enjoyed this book, even it it is the purest nonsense." Most welcome Sir,these days we enjoy pure nonsense more than the real literature because even people like Ian McEwan who are known as literary can give a severe headache sometimes..serious literature is in old ripened age, sometimes someone says something out of dulling memory..involuntarily..

It is as much nonsense or true to the real world as all the Akiro Kurosawa films or Yukio Mishima books that portrait the Japanese samurai in a similar way.
Having studied Japanese and lived in Japan, I always found this to be an entertaining western look at the same stories which have been told for the last 400 years i Japan.

I thought Clavell took it even further, but I could be wrong! Or maybe the Japanese friends who had seen the TV series were being unnecessarily harsh...

putting the TV Series in a critique of the book?
I found that the Honor System for Seppuku was held in high accord; am I mistaken?
There were severed heads and ceremony for seemingly just cause; although, my memory is aged 21 years.

Well, my Japanese informants tell me that it's seriously exaggerated...

Just because a person is from Japan does not mean they know whether or not the book is historically accurate . They would have to live in the time this was written to know that . Still good review of the book. Even though I loved it

They sounded pretty sure of their facts, but what do I know? :)

In the movie , Aishwarya Rai appears as a kalarippayattu warrior from Kerala named Mira in fifth century Europe. So something has been done to redress the balance in favour of the East, Manny.

Of course, we have no evidence that Kalarippayattu was existing at that time. Kerala, as a state, most definitely was not. And any girl from the region is unlikely to have been called Mira, as the name became popular only after became an icon all over India.

But as Justin said above, just because I am from Kerala I need not know whether the above facts are historically accurate, as I would have to live in the fifth century to be sure of that. But I would humbly suggest that it would apply to the author too.

Did James Clavell live in 16th Century Japan, at any time in his career, I wonder?

"commit seppuku at once !
gladly sire "
I suppose dialogue like that is hard to understand from a certain viewpoint and maybe Clavell exaggerated, but by all accounts he was a fascinated with Japan and studied its history and customs deeply

I'd love to read the adventures of A Samurai in Shakespeare's London, Manny!

Ah, but this was at least somewhat based on the true events surrounding Tokugawa Ieyasu and the foundation of the shogunate.

Manny - Another reviewer posted this link that I found interesting concerning the accuracy of Shogun:

Eight academic scholar of Japanese history, culture, language, and literature contributed individual essays to a paper entitled “Learning from Shogun.�� The scholars point out the “Western fantasy�� of Shogun versus reality; but the fantasy was based on actual events and individuals, e.g., Blackthorne was based on William Adams; Mariko was based on Hosokawa Gracia; Toranaga was based on Tokugawa Ieyasu; Buntaro was based on Hosokawa Tadaoki, etc. The scholars agree that Shogun is basically a Western romance fantasy and facts are embellished, but overall, they seem to agree that as a historical fiction, Shogun is a fairly accurate depiction of feudal Japan in the 1600.

Thank you Daniel, I'm going to have to check that out! I was aware of the links with real historical figures, but my Japanese informants were very sceptical about the Samurai code of honour as depicted here. Though what do I know, I'm just an ignorant gaijin...

Manny - The scholars in “Learning from Shogun�� noted that the samurai code of honor, as well as what defines a “samurai,�� has changed. In one of the essays entitled "Life versus Death", one of the scholars noted that in feudal Japan of the 1600’s the “samurai preference for death over dishonor was an impressive reality at the time. �� He further noted that “If anything, Shogun underemphasizes the specific practice of seppuku, or ritual suicide by disembowelment (known more commonly in the West by the less elegant term “harakiri��).��

Well, it's possible that my Japanese friends had it completely wrong. All I can say is, their polite sneers were very convincing.

Religious indoctrination can convince regular people to do all manor of mad things. In the case of feudal Japan, they used Buddhist tenets of rebirth to convince people that dying with honor meant being reborn into a better life--and dying with dishonor one far worse. That's really all it takes. If one believes that death is not the end, why is it hard to believe that they would eagerly take their own lives if it meant just rewards in the next? Christianity only dodged this by making suicide a sin, otherwise who wouldn't kill themselves for a quicker trip to heaven?

It's interesting to see that the people who construct religions also need to put in last-minute hacks to get the software to do what it's suppose to.

I’m always going to trust Japanese people in regards to their own history over white people, even if they’ve studied it.

I read books written in English about Chinese history by white “experts,�� and it’s laughable how shallow it is.

Embarrassing that we're still living in that Victorian mind-set, isn't it?

Manny wrote; "Japanese people tell me that it's all nonsense."

Must have missed where this was called something other than fiction. But, hey, those hundreds of year old Japs never lie.

"I wish a Japanese author would return the compliment, and write a similarly bogus historical blockbuster about a Japanese hero visiting Europe during the late 16th century"
Well there is such a book by Shusaku Endo named The Samurai

Interesting! I had never heard of this book. Though looking it up, it doesn't seem to be quite the East/West mirror-image that I am searching for...

I read the first 50 pages of it in a book-store but did not buy it.
It is clearly not the same mirror plot as Clavel's, this being an official expedition from Japan to Europe, and it appears more meditative than adventurous.

I just finished it and loved it but I also agree with. But I forgive it because it was such a well told story.

It's actually pretty consistent with hagakure which was written in this time period. Although seems unbelievable today was actually common or at least perceived to be common at the time.

It's possible that my Japanese informants were wrong, though they seemed pretty sure of themselves.

I do indeed know about the link to the real Ieyasu, though some people have told me it's on the tenuous side and Clavell has considerably improved the story...

I'm embarrassed to admit that I never doubted the serial-seppuku in Shogun.

It's interesting that none of the academics, who contributed to Learing From Shogun, addressed its extreme treatment.

(though it's possible I overlooked any objections)

OK, I checked. It seems I'd forgotten. Henry Smith stated (p 94-95):

"If anything, Shogun underemphasizes the specific practice of seppuku, or ritual suicide by disembowelment"

and goes on to say:

"we really know very little about the history and psychological structure of what is after all a very bizarre custom."

"In actual practice, seppuku tended with time to become more and more a matter of formality, with the cutting of the abdomen abbreviated or even eliminated, and death coming with decapitation by the second...This was particularly true during the Tokugawa period, when seppuku became essentially a form of execution reserved for members of the samurai class. Yet the fact remains that the practice survived for many centuries, and Western eyewitness accounts from the nine-teenth century confirm that samurai were indeed able to disem-bowel themselves without flinching. Seppuku survived as a tradition in the modern military class and was given a spectacular revival in the rigorously traditional suicide performed by the writer Mishima Yukio in 1970."

"Given its uniqueness and long survival in practice, seppuku perhaps deserves closer attention by scholars of Japan."

None of this speaks to what "Japanese people" said about the frquency and circumstances of the act - though it seems that Smith believes that Japanese study of it is lacking.

Anyway this is availble here:

Interesting! Though based on seeing Paul Schrader's Mishima, I have my doubts about

Seppuku survived as a tradition in the modern military class and was given a spectacular revival in the rigorously traditional suicide performed by the writer Mishima Yukio in 1970.

In Fall 1999, my son's high school world history teacher assigned this to his class. During the Open House one month into the first semester, the teacher made a point to praise the book. I read it, but was not taken by it but probably bought the "facts" as well.

My understanding is that "Memoirs of a Geisha" is also full of nonsense

Edward Said wrote about the western susceptibility to mythical concerts of "Orientalism" per the Middle and Near East. Perhaps the Far East, as well.

Manny wrote:



It's possible that my Japanese informants were wrong, though they seemed pretty sure of themselves.


Interesting! Though based on seeing Paul Schrader's Mishima, I have my doubts about

Seppuku survived as a tradition in the modern military class and was given a spectacular revival in the rigorously traditional suicide performed by the writer Mishima Yukio in 1970.


Thanks for mentioning the film. The wiki article suggests an interesting, if extreme man.

On further reflection, your Japanese informants may well be sincere - though not necessarily reliable - 400 years after Iyeasu's consolidation of power.

(this is not to say Clavell is reliable, either - and I belive he did the usual disclaimer: "this is a work of fiction")

We imagine that we understand our ancestors - cultural and national. In the U.S., for example, the founders are characterized by some as "racist" - even though the concept (as we understand it) may have only begun to emerge then.

(Britian had yet to abolish slavery in 1776)

Japanese concepts of honor may well have been shaken by their surrender and subsequent occupation in 1945 (?)

There may well be an opportunity for "scholar at a distance" on this matter - Smith's short treatment suggests so.


Michael wrote:

Edward Said wrote about the western susceptibility to mythical concerts of "Orientalism" per the Middle and Near East. Perhaps the Far East, as well.

The Japanese, themselves, may also be susceptible to their own modern myths regarding their cultural/national past - and not just those concerning honor and its manifestations.

Again, in the U.S., we debate the notion of American Exceptionalism.

"Opponents" on this particular myth seem to exclude both the ugly and the truly exceptional about America.

In particular America has tried an "exceptional" modern political experiment. Not from whole cloth, however. Ours is a hybrid, which started "on the rock" well before the Mayflower Compact.

The central character of the novel is based on an actual historical character who is still celebrated in Japanese history to this day.

So the Japanese ppl who you talked to were samurai or peasants!?

"They sounded pretty sure of their facts, but what do I know?" I sound really sure about my facts when I'm talking out my ass all the time. It's part of being a lawyer. Moral: don't be overly-swayed by delivery.

"I’m always going to trust Japanese people in regards to their own history over white people, even if they’ve studied it."

Why? I'm not going to trust the average American's understanding of American history over a that of a German who has a PhD in the subject.

In fact, Manny, there was a japanese embassy in Europe (mainly Spain & Italy) in the XVIIth Century. Their story may be interesting for a book!

Thank you Daniel! After briefly skimming the Wikipedia article, it seem to me not impossible - what am I saying, virtually certain! - that Tsunenaga may have made an earlier trip to Europe when he was an adventurous teen, organising the defeat of the Spanish Armada, helping William Shakespeare to write several of his best-known plays, and translating the so-called King James Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English via Japanese. We need a 650 page novel which explores this in more detail.

All your Japanese friends that lived in 17th century Japan told you this book was inaccurate? Sounds legit!

Every single one of them, it was unanimous. You can't ignore evidence like that.

Aw is it not historically accurate? I was hoping for a book about samurai with accuracy

In my Japanese history class my teacher told me it wasnt especially uncommon for samurai to sneak and defect to the other side if the battle looked hopelessly outmatched. Most of modern samurai myth is the result of Japanese ww2 propaganda stemming from some samurais book in the late 1800s who had never saw combat and was himself referencing works from several hundred years prior.

To be frank I'm too lazy to look up and cite all this so take it with a grain of salt, though it should be easy enough to fine.

I mean to say I agree with you and your friends assertions about seppuku

Clavell was Australian. No reason why the Japanese would write about Queen Elizabeth and the Spanish Armada.

Nathan, I somehow missed your comment. Pleased to hear that it's (almost) officially nonsense!

Sala, all I'm doing is suggesting a marketing opportunity for an enterprising Japanese author of clunky bestsellers. And given my recent discovery that Shakespeare was Italian, why shouldn't the defeat of the Spanish Armada have been the work of a Japanese citizen?

Oh, I loved it too! Just embarrassed to find how many liberties he'd taken.

It's actually a fairly accurate representation of the life of William Adams (exaggerated yes). Stranded in Japan in the 1600s, first Englishman in Japan, forbidden to leave by the Shogun, rises to the highest ranks in the Shogun's court, and builds ships for the Shogun.

So, Whitewashing? Again?

I'm just quoting what Japanese people have told me.

So you gave a book you "greatly enjoyed" only 3 stars just because your japanese friends told you a fictional book was not historically accurate?