欧宝娱乐

Just remember Dennis, that the authors of the bible dont normally have professional liturature in mind, but are simply recalling accounts as not to lose them in the stream of time. If I was being chased by a 5 legged monster, I wouldn't recall it in my journal with metaphors and alliteration in mind.

I disagree that the Bible is a history of events. I would call it more of a work of reverse speculative fiction.

The fact that you labeled the bible fiction single handedly resulted in your one star rating. I see the bible as history, the end. We can't argue our opinions here with the hope of coming to some common agreement because we're not arguing the same thing.

And oh. Try doing some research next time; the bible does have different authors. Just a tip.

Wouldn't you label such "holy" books as the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and the Bhagavad-Gita as fiction?

The purpose of my review was to consider the Bible as literature, stripped of all its religious trappings. The viewpoint is that of the hypothetical reader who is completely unaware of Christianity*. As literature, it fails. As a holy and sacred text, it clearly excels. Both of these reasons help explain the legions of people who love it and devote their lives to it without ever having read it?

P.S., Yes. I am aware that the Bible was compiled from writings of several authors. The "authors seem to change" bit was a jibe at the misconception that the Bible is God's "Word".

It would depend on my beliefs. Once again, difference of argument.

Your opinion doesn't strike any thought in me because you've only presented conclusions based on nothing. It's like listening to a conspirator sharing his/her theories that are unfortunately based off inconsistancies. Psalm and Isaiah are beautiful pieces of literature that I, and even many atheists/non-believers happen to enjoy.

The reasoning for your conclusion of why "legions" of people believe the bible doesn't add up. How can the Bible, failing at literature, help explain why people follow it without having read it? I detect a lack of logic...

Last, what is your cause for thinking that the word of God, claimed by the Bible's authors, isn't the word of God? Interesting...

This is not a "difference of argument". You responded to my review of the work with the assertion that the authors of /Bible/ were simply keeping records and that I shouldn't compare it to the rest of literature because of that. That's ridiculous. Just because it's badly written doesn't mean it's not literature.

Then you implied that because I don't believe in /Bible/ as scripture, that I am not qualified to offer my opinion of it, but for some reason, *you* are qualified because you see /Bible/ as a history, "the end".

Do you not see the fallacy of your argument? Whether I think /Bible/ is fiction or not, it doesn't change the actual words on the paper.

Never once did I say it's not literature. Go back and look. Never once did I say or imply that you couldn't offer your opinion of the bible, go back and check. And I certainly didn't qualify myself with it, or imply this.

This conversation is going nowhere. You don't respond to my questions, or back your opinions with support. The only thing you truly answered was how you can believe that the authors didn't write down the word of God, and intend his word written un-changed, and the tip on how there are different authors. Your style of arguement leaves me with nothing to go off of, and puts me in an unfair position where I must continue to defend my prose from your new accusations, and so on, and so forth, etc etc. Enough is enough.

You said, "The fact that you labeled the bible fiction single handedly resulted in your one star rating. I see the bible as history, the end."

What does that mean if not, You don't believe in the Bible, so you can't really rate it? The implication is there, that my opinion (e.g. my "rating") is invalid because I don't see the Bible as history.

And I apologize, I mis-spoke. That sentence should read "Just because it's badly written doesn't mean it's not *comparable* to other literature."

As for supporting my argument, I'll spell it out for you: Few Christians have read it cover-to-cover. Even fewer people have read it for pleasure. Yet a great many people believe it is the inerrant word of their god. Hence my statement that it fails as literature (for all the reasons stated in my review), but is excellent as scripture.

And as for answering your questions: There is no evidence that the Bible is the word of god as claimed by its authors, and quite a lot of evidence that the Bible was written in an entirely worldly fashion.

...are you kidding me

I assure you that I am not kidding you. If you believe such things, it is not likely that you'll see it any other way.

Here's a review of a Gallup poll that surveyed American Bible-reading habits.



It shows that while most Americans own at least one copy of the Bible, they are ignorant of the contents.

While this is true about many christians, I'm sure you're bright enough to understand (or at least i hope) that i'm not responsible for other christains. If this fact alone is responsible for you not following the bible, then i'm sorry; there is nothing I can do for you. You are lost intellectually, and spiritually. For your link, I don't need any more proof or support of this claim, nor does anyone.

I didn't respond with "are you kidding me" from reading your little factoid. I said it because you said that "There is no evidence that the Bible is the word of god as claimed by its authors". Either you are the biggest Idiot on God's green earth to not catch the authors witnessing the word of God, through description and/or revelation, or you are a creditless tagalong who argues the bible's meanings without ever have reading it, and thus like the rest of the world's atheist critics on the internet. Look around.

The world is going down a path of destruction. A path vividly explained in revelation. 6 million jews destroyed out of 9 million. Sounds like a prophecy being fortold in modern day. look it up, old testament. Israel became a nation again, and nations are turning against israel. Prophecy. Our world is coming to an end. A savior will come, and he will govern over all things. The inevitable was put into action long before we were born, and there's nothing you or I can do to change that.

I don't want or expect a reply back from you. You know what I believe, I know what you believe, and It's quite clear there's not going to be any conversion. It was my mistake trying to argue religion in a forum like this, for we both know that nothing will be settled. It was ,though, somewhat facinating to recap on how men and women with your thoughts and ideas support themselves, but it got old trying get you to see my side of things. It was nice talking.

I wasn't asking for your help. I was responding to your complaints with my review, which *you* came *here* to voice. I am not interested in "converting" you to atheism, and if you started this with the intention of converting me to Christianity with your asinine non-arguments and insults, you should reevaluate your rhetorical skills.

You make the mistake that many Christians make: attempting to use the Bible to validate itself. Furthermore, what you see as fulfilled prophecies, many see as vague coincidences, cherrypicked from among the many prophecies told in the Bible. People from every age have been utterly convinced they lived in the end times. What makes you special?

Merry Christmas Dennis

And a Cheerful Apocalypse to you.

After it, there will be nothing but cheer

And in this cage, you can see an average specimen of the Preterist Apocalyptical.

...right...

Wait. When looking through your review and our conversations for the last time, I came across this in your second comment,

"Yes. I am aware that the Bible was compiled from writings of several authors. The "authors seem to change" bit was a jibe at the misconception that the Bible is God's "Word"."

Just for an ending note, I thought the purpose of your review was to "...consider the Bible as literature, stripped of all its religious trappings"

I'm sorry Dennis, but you can't really do that with religious criticism in your review, but nice try; gotta give you credit for your mostly accurate acount of the bible. Better luck tomorrow.

"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is".

~Albert Camus

Great review! Don't let the proselytizers get you down. :-)

Dave. There is no religious criticism in my review. My responses to your comments do criticize religion, but let me point out again that it was you who brought religion into the discussion. I am merely responding in context.

As to the Camus quote: I rebut that I simply prefer to be good to others out my own volition, rather than because I'm afraid of the consequences. Camus' sentiment is that of a frightened and intimidated child.

Thank you, Charity. I appreciate the support!

Nice review Dennis! I hadn't heard about this book before, but I might have to check it out.

I inserted the quote by Camus more for your understanding of me, than a religious attack on you.

I guess I will have to take your word for it; you really aren't criticizing religion.

But, what you do happen to accomplish is over-generalize the average christian viewpoint, and its origin. Fine by me, but inaccurate standing on the assumption most christians own bibles but do not know the contents. Mass judgement => Oversight.

I'm happy i'm saved. I wish you were too. That's all i've got left to say here.

~I will forever walk fearless



"Empty House Far Away
Lost In Lonely Space
You Know You麓ve Felt The Same

From The Shallows In Love
To The Depths Of Yours Scars
You Know You Want To Change

In The Rafters A Vate,
Fixed And Spinning Late
There Is A Certain Fear

Even Light With Control
Lights Outside Our Homes
Wait For Every Tear

So Exit The Fall
And Now It's Over
Your Learning. It's All, Before Your Heart

I Found A Way Out Trough Everything I've Known
I麓m Walking Fearless With My Faith Down And All That I Own
Don't Take My Picture Cause I Won't Be There Standing Alone
I'm Living Fearless so fearless like everyday's my own

Steady Hands In The Plane
Calculated Ways To Call It Ailing In

Figure Hearts Far Away When You Work So Late
From A Distant End

Call It What You Want
Call It Just A Game
Call It Insane
All Of These Voices"


~Falling Up

I should've been more suspicious of the quote, since Camus declared throughout his life that he did not believe in God. It turns out that Camus never said that, but for some reason, the quote is widely attributed to him.

True, I don't have facts and figures to back up my opinion that few Christians know the Bible well, but you also lack the same to support your counter-opinion, so we'll call that a wash. What is true in my opinion, however, is that many Christians do believe it is the inerrant word of God, which is the scary part, and the part relevant to my assertion that /Bible/ fails as literature.

Literature encourages thought and analysis. Scripture encourages (even commands) blind and unexamined acceptance. Which sounds more like the /Bible/ you know?

It was not posted with the fiction, because it is not fiction. God established the the Bible as the written logos. God is the living logos. God is the Word He preached and the Word He gave us. John 1:1 its says, "the word was with God, and the word was God." So there for the this book is not fiction it teaches a way a life that has a goal of bringing God all the glory through how we live

People can not devote their lives to God, and not read His word. John 1:1 God is the Word!

And here I was, thinking all along that the Bird is the Word.

I mean, everybody knows about the Bird!

Did you hear?

Thank you. And not just from a literary stance.

/one side that is rooted in reason and the other that is rooted in blind acceptance /

I disagree that it is 'blind acceptance.' These are judgemental and arrogant words. You are assuming that Dave or whoever has not reached the conclusion of God through a rational process of thought. You have no knowledge of the physical and spiritual journey that a person of faith has come through to reach their belief. Rational scientific thought and faith can exist side by side.

Scientific thought and faith cannot exist side by side. It seems instead that once logic declares a point, after much flailing and gnashing of teeth (from the Copernican revolution to the soon to be extinct intelligent design 'theory') then faith is begrudgingly changed to fit with known data.

Faith is the dead weight hindering scientific and logical progress.

Faith is not limited by a set of rational principles. You seem to put all people of faith in one conveniant box. I think evolution is a very good theory and most probably correct. I also believe that God created the universe and the earth.
Do you think that it is bias of you to only admit the negative influence that christianity has had on science and knowledge? You are unwilling to admit the positive effect that the church has had on society and the gaining of knowledge.

Your understanding of faith is not complete.
'INCONCEIVABLE.'
'You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.'

Wow, these statements, posted on some website, aren't forcing anyone to rethink their positions, just think of better ways to defend them. The internet, I guess, is a really good way to get a bug up your ass about things you disagree with.

So y'all keep arguing. I gots better things to do, like, live. And Alex, faith is the most bullshit answer for anything out there.

Much Love,

Mike

Mike.
I was not sure if you recognised the inconceivable quote from 'the princess bride.' very poor quip I know:)

I personally have been caused to question my faith after chatting with people on other sites. Because they actually had some interesting points to talk about. But then they had done alot of research and I was interested in learning something new.

With regard to Faith... Have you heard of Dr Francis Collins the head of the Human Genome Project, one of the worlds leading scientists. He is also a man of 'unshakable faith in the scriptures.'
A man who works at the cutting edge of DNA, and believes that faith in God and faith in science can coexist.
Just like CS Lewis one of the greatest essayist in human history, a legend of rational thought he also came from a Atheist point of view to a faith in God.

These men were not satisfied to put up a wall in their brains built on the foundations of such statements as 'faith is bullshit.'

'Love is all around I feel it in the air.'

Alex

P.S. Francis Collins recently wrote a book called 'The Language of God' were he makes his case for God and Science. Might be worth having a look at.

The holy bible IS fictional but...moving on. As a physicist (sorry to be an occupation dropper) I fail to see how being open to WHATEVER religion makes any of them more true. I stick by the most likely thing, therefore, the more ridiculous the claim, the more evidence is required.

And I'm curious, does Christianity condone gods choice in the Second book of Kings, Chapter two, verse twenty three? I'm not all that into killing small children for mockery, but I guess God is. Forgive and forget?

Otherwise I can show you all the verses in which God states that he will one day call upon you to eat YOUR OWN children.

Waiting to hear back from you,

Love Mike

the bible is fictional. the "prophets" picked and chose what was to stay in the book and what was to be thrown out so none of it is completely honest or true. believe in whatever you'd like whether it be christianity or scientology but don't preach to people who don't want to hear and who will not change their beliefs for you.

and yes i know exactly what i live for. god is not the be all and end all of life for some people believe it or not. and don't tell me how life without a god is an empty one. my life is full to the brim thank you.

Hells yes! Can I get an Amen for all the uncanonized books? And for my sister in skepticism? Praise be, praise be...

Oh and I can't help but bring up that the prophets didn't pick any of the books that are in the standard bibles. They just rambled on about whatever, then hundreds of years later, a group of money grubbing, power hungry priests picked which texts were proper. That's why we don't have a book of Nicodemus or a book of Thomas. It kind of pisses me off that I can't remember when the council of Canon met. That would lend historic credence to my argument.

So, what exactly were their choices based on? Streamlining for the most effective brain washing. Any current day corporation would be proud.

ha. any time. i feel like the truly sad thing is that i'm quite young (and frankly, raised catholic... although i long ago threw out that title and belief system) and can see that there is absolutely no truth in this book. and yeah... i'm not really sure who picked and chose the different books to stay or leave the bible, only that it is evident that someone did. priests sound about right. i'm not sure if this happens in other religions... the "throwing out" of part of the holy book but i'm curious to know. it wouldn't surprise me if it was just christians.

exactly! brain washing of the masses. organized belief in spirits and a magical man and such. what next? santa?

Oddly enough, it isn't just chrisians that throw out stuff. It's actually very common practice, which makes sense that if you're religion can't appeal to the current populous they'll obviously move on to something that does appeal to them. For instance, the muslims haven't thrown parts of the koran out per se, but muslim scholars have had to come up with this hilarious idea. See, the beginning of the koran is very pacifist and peaceful in its stance but as it progresses it gets more and more violent. So the rule of thumb they came up with, for whatever ungodly reason, is that if there is a contradiction whatever was written later is right. Still kills me. For an interesting look at the Abrahamic religions I recommend Michel Onfray's Atheist Manifesto. Pure Gold.

thanks for the suggestion, sounds like something i'll definitely have to check out. and just out of curiosity do you consider yourself atheist?

Atheist, freethinker, Bright, whatever you want to call it. As a scientist, I maintain that the greater the claim, the greater the evidence required to substantiate it. And the evidence required for a super-duper being such as god is exponentially great. If someone claims they know for sure that he exists, they better be able to give me a better reason than "he speaks to me". The voices speak to the schizophrenics as well. Still doesn't make Me think that they're there.

As a scientist, I maintain that the greater the claim, the greater the evidence required to substantiate it. And the evidence required for a super-duper being such as god is exponentially great.
----
Truer words were never spoken. Of course the Christians all echo the rebuttal: "prove that God doesn't exist", failing to realise that the onus rests with them.
Religion has become so ingrained within our society that most of us don't really see how illogical the notion of a giant invisible man in the sky is.

It is fact! "MOST" hypochristians do not know what the "WORD" of YHWH says. Neither do most actually "DO" what the "WORD" of YHWH says, in fact most hypochristians are antichrist for they do not do what He said to do, and you either are with Him or against Him. They do not understand what Yahowshuwa the Christ was saying. The gospel to many people is foolishness and it is to the Jews a stumbling block. You have to be "CALLED" to really get the "WORD" of YHWH. It may not seem to be fair, but who can fight against the CREATOR of heaven and earth. What's more is that we are not privy to His inteligence and do not have the authority to question it. The "WHORE" may be false religion and the beast "science" will destroy it and this is the will of the CREATOR. They have eyes but do not see, they have ears but do not see, they are the JEWS then and they are the hypochristians today.

FATHER in heaven; please "miqra" more people unto the "KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH".

This mike is annoyed. And you sound like some weird extremist of some sort. Especially with all those capital LETTERS!!!!! And describing science as a beast? Shame on you. Science has given us airplanes and telescopes and cars. Oh yeah. And modern medicine. Do you not use modern medicine and doctors? Wouldn't surprise me if you didn't but now I have to ask, what has religion given us? Well, the inquisition. The salem witch trials. Oh, Jerry Falwell and plenty of catholic priests. This list is looking pretty thin. Love Mike

P.S. Yahweh, Yahweh, Yahweh, Yahweh. I'm allowed to spell it because I'm not burdened by some crazy vengeful deity.

That is exactly what I said, hypochristians have brought about many many "MANY" evils and still do for they work for their father the devil. False religionZZZ have done so much hurt in this world for are cursed. But that has nothing to do with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for He does not agree with them either for they do not do what He says.

I do not spell out YHWH for I am not sure of the exact spelling (Hebreww vowel pointings) of the Tetragramaton.

This world was far better off without all that "STUFF" and did without it for thousands of years. How many people were killed by drunk drivers in the horse and buggy days. Bombs are wonderful arn't they? The garbage dumps are great! Have you had your water tested lately? We would not need most of the medicines that don't even work anyway if the advances of science would not be polluting everything. A lawsuit comes out for almost every kind of drug that is made years later when they are found out to harm people in other ways. If we ate natural foods and without excess we would need less drugs to fix the diseases associted with those bad habits and unnatural food preservations.

What's most important issue has to do with the lack of knowing the CREATOR and without eyes to see and ears to hear a person will not come to the "KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH". True "WISDOM" is to fear the Lord and True "KNOWLEDGE/UNDERSTANDING" is to depart from evil.

FATHER in heaven; let Your kingdom come and soon, PLEASE!

i found this review through a friend that bashed it since she's a christian.... and i myself didn't bother to read the review.

the review is true hilarity, i love it. rolling on the floor about the bookmark bit.

Wow. I don't normally become someone who personally attacks, but I am sorry. I have to.

What unmitigated ignorance you possess and espouse. What the fuck is a hypochristian, aside from a word you or one from the heaven's gate cult made up. And I don't know how to spell Yahweh properly or improperly becuase I don't care.

And your ridiculous issues with drunk driving deaths and lawsuits about medicine. Germs, like the plague, destroyed 1/3 of the european population. Entire cultures, that could have contributed so much beauty to this world, were destroyed by, not only disease but religion as well. It's the reason only four Myan manuscripts exist today. On TOP of ALL OF this, FUCK natural FOODS. I'm still LOOOKING FOR some sort OF explanation for what a NATURAL FOOD IS. PLEASE, explain it TO me.eee.zzz.ppp.
And just to let you know, Knowledge and Truth are bullshit concepts. As well as A CREATOR. I'm not entirely sure what EVIL you think that the general populous partakes in, but in summation you're BULLSHIT.

FATHER in heaven; let Your Vengeance strike me down if I speak untruth about your nonexistence.

Oh wait, still here.

Love Mike

You may call it ignorance or , but others would call it faith.

I am unfamiliar to the heaven's gate.

The term "hypochristian" is pretty much self explanatory.

You are so correct when you said "hypochristians" (or religion in your terms) killed many people.

I hope the Myan calendar is correct.

Natural foods in my definition are foods that have not been chemically altered in one way or other. You know: pesticides, incecticides, fertilizers, hormones, anti biotics, additives, unethical methods in animal husbandry such as factory farms and making herbivores eat flesh (madcow); you know little things such as these. For they are the causes of much disease.

If you want to know what the sins of the world are; read the Bible; the commandments, the laws of the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and me.

I know that there is a CREATOR, and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob seems to me to be the most obvious choice. Why; because there is so much vile hatred and restistance to His ways that He has to be the One.

mike; what sins do you currently have in your life that makes you hate the authority of the CREATOR and His rules? I hope that you do not have as many sins as I used to have.

FATHER in heaven; if you will not "CALL" mike; please answer his prayer soon. In Yahowshuwa Your Son's name do I ask. amen

Mike;

I quickly pulled up heavens gate on the internet, and I remember now what they are. You know, you have a pretty interesting sense of humor.

mike4YWHWH