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karen's Reviews > Labyrinths: Selected Stories & Other Writings
Labyrinths: Selected Stories & Other Writings
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karen's review
bookshelves: littry-fiction, my-summer-of-classix, books-everyone-loves-but-me, hey-shorty, not-a-polyglot
Jun 23, 2009
bookshelves: littry-fiction, my-summer-of-classix, books-everyone-loves-but-me, hey-shorty, not-a-polyglot
why haven't i read borges before?? no one knows. and he was always pushed upon me - "how can you like marquez if you haven't read borges??" "you like donoso - you should read borges." "machado is good, but you should read borges." so - fine - i did. and i am utterly underwhelmed. so there. i am learning during my "summer of classix" that most of the books i have for some reason or another overlooked were probably overlooked for a reason. i naturally gravitate towards what i like - and i seem to have a filter that prevents me from picking up too many books i don't. when i force it, this happens. and i liked some of the stories. but borges isn't for everyone (although scrolling down my "friends who have read" list, it looks as though all my friends gave it five stars.) and i'm not accusing you bitches of inflating your ratings, but i have the sense with borges that some people are guilted into liking him. or pretending that they like him more than they do because he's borges. but i won't be. because i am not ashamed of my intellectual shortcomings. i embrace them. i am incapable of abstract thought. fact. as hard as i try, that whole achilles/tortoise thing? does not compute. so all of this hexagon spiraling into hexagon on top of hexagon... i feel like i am back in college (where every single person i ever knew had a copy of this book. and was a stoner.)but this is classic stoner thinking-chains. reflections, labyrinths, it's perfect for that kind of mindset. "dooood, imagine we were in a hexagon right now??" and i know this makes sense to some people with philosophical and theological mindbents, but for me its almost pain. there were about 6 stories i liked, but the first few almost made me weep with trying to find the value in them. sorry, borges. we were never meant to be.
mmmmkay - it seems that there are those who think it would be valuable "in a book review" to list the stories i did like. so: the shape of the sword, theme of the traitor and the hero, death and the compass, the secret miracle, three versions of judas, story of the warrior and the captive, emma zunz, the house of asterion, and the waiting. more than i thought i liked, but still - a sad minority.
mmmmkay - it seems that there are those who think it would be valuable "in a book review" to list the stories i did like. so: the shape of the sword, theme of the traitor and the hero, death and the compass, the secret miracle, three versions of judas, story of the warrior and the captive, emma zunz, the house of asterion, and the waiting. more than i thought i liked, but still - a sad minority.
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June 23, 2009
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June 26, 2009
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Comments Showing 1-50 of 100 (100 new)
i didnt read that one yet... ill keep you posted...
well at least we don't have to worry about the end of the world anymore. i still don't get the stoner appeal, but then again i can remember all the stoner philosophy students back in college who are part of the reason i fucking hate most philosophy students (not counting myself or greg) and i can picture them going on about the hexagons...i guess i wasn't underwhelmed because i know nothig about literature and didn't expect there to be anything about philosophy in borges, so when i read him it was kind of a fun surprise, but i never thought it was supposed to be anything mind blowing. i like how the stories are almost non-fictional, more like lies than fiction.
I guess I should have known he wasn't for you. Sorry for pushing him on you....
its okay - there were a handful of stories i liked - i guess the ones that were less like lies...
I commonly find the same thing. I think people naturally gravitate toward what they like. When I buy or pick up a book at the library based solely on title or cover I tend to really like it,when I read a book for a logical reason,I end up disappointed or moderately bored. I am not in your friends who reviewed borges because I have a couple of his complete books that I haven't finished, although I really like him, but it was because I thought the nonfiction/fiction style was really interesting. But the stories I read were also out of a universal history of iniquity.
me too. i found this book at work and liked the cover and what little was written on the back and decided to read it. soon i'm going to write my own review and hopefully karen won't think it's stoner crap. i can't be a stoner because i need to have quick reflexes for stopping pucks and punching annoying stoners.
Karen, very recently, as a consequence of the bullying, ejaculatory praise of Borges found on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ and elsewhere, I read Borges' Ficciones. And while I thought many of the stories contained interesting and compelling ideas, I found that also to be their liability... They were idea-based, cerebral, arid, clever maybe, but not at all alive: merely theoretical. At first I felt guilty about my own reaction; no, I didn't dislike Borges -- no, not at all -- but I was hardly ready to join this strange cult of Borges admirers who terrorize uninitiated readers, like the gang from A Clockwork Orange, battering them (i.e., us) over the head with their embarrassingly superlative praise for the man and their unrestrained contempt or condescension for anyone who has not yet read him. (I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I had the same experience with Murakami and Bolaño.) And I completely agree with your premise, by the way: Some people feel genuine heartfelt passion about Borges, I'm sure, but I think lots of people like him because they're supposed to. The power of suggestion is a powerful thing, and I think this kind of writing (or the idea of liking this kind of writing) holds a strong appeal for people with "intellectual" aspirations.
phew. thank you for your affirmation. (i didnt like murakami either, really. but i only read two.) and i dont mind challenging books - i like infinite jest, i like some john barth - i just dont like this. again - the stories that were more narrative i liked, i just wasnt crazy abut the "lets take this idea from philosophy and run with it and pretend its a story now" part. and i do look forward to michaels review. i like to see what hes doing, since he wasnt at work...what else is there?
hey! you didnt review it!! you gotta review it, david, you have to knock those romance ladies from the top of the goodreads.com reviewer positions.
In my five star defense, I can't get enough of someone who can take this idea from philosophy and run with it and pretend its a story now. But I also found that I could only take Borges in small doses, one story on top of another an another and another is a bit much. What do you(Karen, David, whomever) think of Borges in comparison to Calvino?
i like calvino, but i can see cosmicomics being easily compared to borges. (thats the one calvino i read that i didnt like, interestingly enough...) and i know your love of borges is genuine. lord knows you love philosophy...
Is Calvino someone I'm supposed to like too? Because he and Borges are authors I stumbled upon while wandering Karen's aisles, kicking out sitters.
Everyone knows the grade school physics experiment where you place your hand in a bowl of room temperature water: it feels cold if your hand was previously in hot water, hot if in cold water. When you're used to reading the dry, theoretical/philosophical writing Greg or I take an almost masochistic pleasure in (think Critique of Pure Reson, or Being and Time--not that I subscribe to either those philosophies), Borges' writing can be lively and fun. But if you approach it from the side of good narrative fiction or drama, you will be disappointed. But don't mistake me for one of those evangelists; I don't care who reads him. I stubbornly reject anything people push on me, at times to my own detriment.
Everyone knows the grade school physics experiment where you place your hand in a bowl of room temperature water: it feels cold if your hand was previously in hot water, hot if in cold water. When you're used to reading the dry, theoretical/philosophical writing Greg or I take an almost masochistic pleasure in (think Critique of Pure Reson, or Being and Time--not that I subscribe to either those philosophies), Borges' writing can be lively and fun. But if you approach it from the side of good narrative fiction or drama, you will be disappointed. But don't mistake me for one of those evangelists; I don't care who reads him. I stubbornly reject anything people push on me, at times to my own detriment.
I think I could explain the achilles and the tortise to you in a way you'd understand. there really isn't that much to it. Mike hit it on the head, after reading an 800 page dry book about Being and Time, a 5 page story that presents a philosophical problem, with a bit of a story seems quite delightful and fun, sort of like philosophical junk food.
Mike your experiment idea almost works except for the fact that sometimes people get really weird and get bored with narratives that aren't philosophical. I didn't really get Bolano.
I really enjoyed The Critique of Pure Reason (Being and Time less so), but still (for me) Borges did not fare well (as lively and/or fun) by comparison.
I personally don't think that the people who like the critique of pure reason like being and time, but perhaps I am bias being that I only like philosophy that uses valid forms of logic.
Sorry, I didn't mean to convey that liking either of those or any other books in particular should foretell a love of Borges. I'm glad there are smart (I won't say "intellectual" because that seems to have become a semi-insult in this context) people like Karen and Dave who aren't in love with him. I was disturbed to learn about the cult following in Karen's review. It's the same reason I avoided Nietzsche for so long, too long (and probably why I still resist Bob Dylan, though his whiny voice isn't helping). But I fear this discusion is only prolonging the traumatic memory of a read that made Karen weep in pain, so I'll add nothing more...
...except that I guessed The Shape of the Sword was one of the ones you liked. I liked it too, of course. "Now despise me."
...except that I guessed The Shape of the Sword was one of the ones you liked. I liked it too, of course. "Now despise me."
Thanks Karen for your honesty....i was thinking exactly the same thing: Borges is one of those authors one is always pressured to like and one starts feeling humble about not enjoying him as much as all others....but i'd give the same rating you've given - i admire Borges' intellect, but i can't warm to his stories - too dry and kind of inhuman, too theoretical to inspire much love in me....
i want to, because he is the foundation upon which so many things i like are built, but he just leaves me cold. shrug.
I too am told I must read borges. I may be happy from the review to just call it a day and sleep well just with your opinion.
some people really dig him. i think he may be too clinical for your tastes. you like dragons.
Nice float, brissette.Hey! Comment no. 9 was written by an obsolete version of me.
ha! i was "fixing my apostrophes" from when i didn't used to use them.it's a good excuse though, huh??
go vote for all my reviews whose votes end in 9's, it's an ocd thing that troubles me, another reason for the float.
I know I'm intruding on a group of friends here, but I'm liking the discussion. I'm reading Labyrinths now and am of many minds. Almost all of the stories start off bland and impenetrable. So far, roughly half turn out to be interesting, while the other half end abruptly and on a repetitive note. I think I need to move on to something else for now and read the 2nd half in chunks.I found the comparison to Calvino interesting. Cosmicomics is my favorite of his, but the collection of short stories, "Numbers in the Dark" had a similar effect on me as Labyrinths and after years, I'm still reading that one in spurts.
come on in, we aren't friends at all!half of them have been deleted, anyway!
shove some ghosts out of the way.
i like calvino, but have never read numbers in the dark. i really liked if on a winter's night, and the cloven viscount....
Yeah, "If on a Winter's Night" is great. Haven't read the Cloven Viscount yet.I started Labyrinths because I was on an experimental fiction kick and I kept seeing it listed as experimental. But I really don't think it is. It's just munchies for thought.
it was fantastic inspiration for all the people i do love, but ultimately not for me
I wanna see if I can make a David/Borges hybrid -- *ahem* -- We're all obsolete versions of ourselves.Ta-dah!
*another goodreads invasion of a long drawn out discussion:i'm halfway through, and am supposedly educated in philosophy, but i'm still not appreciating this stuff that's so hyped up by my friends and strangers.
i'm trying to reflect on my disappointment - it might be because the short stories are pretty much exhausted by an idea - a philosophical paradox, etc. so, there's really no narrative. and i don't quite understand the motivations of the characters. i don't know if this makes me an uncharitable reader or not. i just finished abandoning joyce's ulysses because it became uninterpretable (will restart when i get a commentary...) but one thing i took from it was this focus on the banal things of life. borges, in this sense, is the anti-joyce. because his stories are populated by metaphysical pursuits going on for lifetimes.
with that said, my favorite so far is 'funes the memorious'.
confirmation! reaffirmation! relief!
part of me still wishes i could like borges and cortazar, but the rest of me is content to believe it's not me, it's them.
I got lost in an art installation once. It wasn't much fun.
hahahhhaha i'm sorry, but that is hilarious. did someone have to rescue you??
Yes and she was claustrophobic and had refused to go in initially.
holy shit - that is awful. i blame borges for this. dick.
That's what made me think of it. It happened in Spain.
Spain must be stopped.
The rain in Spain that runs gently in the plain will be diverted to France. Emmanuelle Beart can bathe naked in it for the enjoyment of Gerard Depardieu. Take that, Javier Bardem!
Yeah, I kinda zone out when people talk about Borges. But then I have a larger mental block about literature in translation. I don't wanna read some translator's idea of what a book might look like if it had been written in English.
yeah, but that would be too too limiting, and i am not about to learn 30 languages. i just have to cross my fingers and hope for the best.
Yeah I get that's irrational on my part. But I also believe there are more than enough interesting books written in English to occupy me for the rest of my reading life.
Non-English language must be stopped.
All foriegn books should just be made into Hollywood remakes.
(On serious note, I totally understand the angst about reading fiction in translation. Same with non-fiction. And the doubts only grow as the work becomes more and more ancient. Like, who the hell knows what the original drafts of Aristotle or The Bible really were getting at. Originally they may've been ultra-ironic jokes that the few literate people of the time could understand. Who knows??)
what about the seducer? that is one of my favorites.
Murakami translated Fitzgerald and Capote into Japanese. That must be interesting to read. I hate overdubbing in films. Translating is like that, only some voice actors are better than others.
Ha, maybe the Bible was actually the "Shit My Dad Says" of antiquity.I hope it's clear that my anti-foreign-language bias is not xenophobic but rather arising out of a formalist impulse: literature is nothing but words selected by an author to go in a certain order, and when you introduce a third party to interpret what might be a good way to re-order those words for another language...well, the book becomes a completely different object, almost a form of fan-fiction with the translator as the ultimate fan. I have no doubt that I'm missing out on lots of great shit, but I'm just not interested in reading something so fundamentally compromised.
my favorite so far is three versions of judas