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The Girl Who Played With Fire by Stieg Larsson
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Much later. After such insistence on preserving my idea of my father, my memory of our last meeting, this happened a couple of Fridays ago. I opened up some photos taken by my brother and there my father is, dead in his coffin. I must confess to being quite distressed. And I still don't understand why on earth is this something to preserve? I don't get it one little bit.


----------------
Hooked. Totally, completely, utterly hooked. I read this book yesterday during lunch even though I was with two perfectly nice interesting people.

And then today. Today we cremated my father without any ceremony, but first there was what they call a ‘viewing�. I so didn’t want to do that and still have absolutely no comprehension whatsoever as to why one would want to look at a dead body. So while the others did their dead body thing I sat in the lounge area with my nose buried in Stieg. And, although, it would not be true in the least to say I didn’t go next door to look at my dead father because I couldn’t put the book down, the fact is that people kept coming in to talk to me, like…I don’t know exactly�.but maybe like they thought that this would create some link between me and whatever was happening next door, like maybe they were worried I’d feel left out and what I wanted to say to them was ‘Can’t you see I’m reading?� ‘If I miss you all, honestly, I’ll drop by next door, I will, really.� I didn’t, doubtless you will be relieved to hear. Instead I chatted amiably to whoever wanted to interrupt me. But. I so wanted to say ‘go away�.

And there I find myself having to put my book down for a bit to talk to my aunt, thinking why do I have to do this, my aunt probably doesn’t even like me. My mother has two sisters, one’s a nun, and hence she’s an absolute trooper, but the other one seems a little fragile to me in some way that I can’t connect to. And I know it is all my dead father’s fault. I almost went next door to remind him of that. It was like this.

We’d been separated for many years from both sides of my family, but as a grownup I did start seeing just these two sisters again now and then. The first time my aunt Rosemary was with a bunch of nuns including my other aunt. Paul introduced me to them ‘This is Cathy, my eldest, she is a divorcee who plays cards for her living.� All true, if you want to put it like that. My father said it with great relish and satisfaction, I might add. Not with a long mournful face, shaking his head. Not like, what am I doing to do with her? More like he’d just bought a red car and didn’t everybody know they go faster? He loved shocking people. But I do think the only person who might have been the least bit shocked is Rosemary. And ever since when I see her, I feel like she looks at me in some slightly dubious way. Like I’m a riverboat gambler. Or a scarlet woman; that it follows in some way from being a divorcee who gambles that one is a certain colour as well.

And the thing about scarlet is that it is one of those colours that is bigger than others. I was wearing a black party dress today with just the tiniest bit of scarlet on it, but it feels like more. It’s a colour that stands out. In the literal definition of the word I’ve never been a scarlet woman, but I have certainly done things for money in my life that don’t feel much different. There too, it’s a bit like the dress. A little bit of scarlet goes a long, long way.



There is a most earnest statistical analysis of this book that will come later on the weekend when I’ve finished. It’s about breasts and punctuation and honestly, it will be a serious, weighty contribution to the understanding and critical analysis of this book.


Update. To keep you interested while I'm still preparing my groundbreaking statistical analysis.

Oh. Reading Paul’s comment I’m thinking okay, I need to put a bit more about this book here. So.

I happened to recall, earlier today, a conversation I had twenty years ago when I was living in Sydney. The phone rang and it was an acquaintance, John. A bit of chitchat and he says ‘Remember you said how much you were into mangoes.� DidI? I was slightly taken aback. ‘Yeah, yeah. Last time I saw you, you were talking about them.� I cast my mind back. It was a Victory Dinner after a bridge tournament. We’d snuck outside and shared a few joints between courses. But what on earth would have made me say that? Was I so wasted? ‘Well, John, I’ve never been averse to a nice mango…�.

He was really being quite intense about the whole thing, ‘I wondered if you wanted me to send you some. Send you some mangoes�. This was really getting a bit silly. For heaven's sake, I lived in Sydney. I merely had to put my hand into the outside air and a mango might fall into it.

And suddenly the penny dropped. He wasn’t talking about mangoes. He was talking about Northern Territory’s finest. He was asking me if I wanted him to send me some dope. Of course! He just didn’t want to say, on the telephone. I was with it. ‘Oh, Mangoes…sorry John. You’re right, I do still love mangoes. Great idea, please do send me some.�

Later that night I told Michael about the whole exchange. He was in complete agreement, clearly John was sending us dope. We are expert bridge players, after all. Like we can’t analyse a situation like this. Like it wouldn’t be obvious in a Stieg Larsson book, what we were really talking about.

A week later a box of mangoes turned up.

Michael, with the desperate conviction of a drug addict, took the box apart and then each mango, still sure he was right. Me, I figured straight away, we weren’t in a crime thriller after all.


-------------------------------------------------------

The last word on this book.

Okay. I’ve, um, read the book now, so here goes. A book review. After a bit of an argument early on with somebody who had read this, I decided to keep some stats. But just as I figured this book was all about the new, busty Salander and the story line was going to be dominated by people sucking on silicon, (people, sic; dykes, yawn), she disappears from the story altogether! What a device. What a piece of creative trickery by the Stieg. What a way to skew my statistics.

You will find her tits on pages:

15/16
27/8
75
85
92
103-4
106-8

and then � well, she’s scarcely in the story for the next few hundred pages. So, although I began the story positively indignant that the superhero had a self-esteem problem that could be resolved by a bit of body mutilation, after a while the whole issue vanished along with the rest of her. I simply don’t understand why Salander would behave in such a tediously average way. I was ready to be really disappointed with this direction (pp. 106-8 is when her friend Wu points out to her that she is hung up about, and obsessed by, her body) but I’d forgotten it soon enough. In fact I wondered if the Stieg got rid of her just so as he didn’t have to find anything more to do with these new possessions of hers.

Setting aside the whole pretend breasts thing, do I have to say anything else about the book? It’s fun, un-put-downable, just like the first one. A dissertation it does not require.

I was disappointed with the chess, p. 143 which is badly done. Although this doesn’t matter in a sense, because none of us know enough to care, if you extrapolate from that, you get to the book itself. If you happen to be in the general field of murder mystery conspiracy, journalistic exposes, police-procedurals etc and think this book is badly done, does that mean it’s badly done? If we all don’t know and don’t care, then it isn’t badly done, is that right? It’s believable because it’s believable. This is just a hypothetical, nothing in particular to do with the book itself.

I hope somebody understands what I’m saying here because I’m not sure I’m with the plot…even though it’s mine. Maybe this is a better way of putting it. If somebody with a modicum of chess knowledge says the chess is badly done we don't care for obvious reasons. But if a crazed killer said to you 'Nup, sorry, that is just so unbelievable the way...This book is just so not like it is.', wouldn't we care then? Yes? No?

On the usage of the comma in relationship to ‘and�, a source of some discussion recently as I'm confused by how often it is used and why.

p.270 We have the sentence ‘But we do have to stay on top of what the police uncover and worm out of them what they know.� I had to read that a couple of times before I understood it meant: ‘But we do have to stay on top of what the police uncover, and worm out of them what they know.� I thought it meant that the police were uncovering and worming, though of course that sentence doesn’t make sense.

Then, what about these:

p. 231 ‘They had heard no sound from the apartment, and nobody had answered the bell. They returned to their car and parked where they could keep watch on the door.�

Why? Why a comma before the ‘and� in the first of these back-to-back sentences? And if so, then why not in the second?

------------------------------------------------------------------
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Reading Progress

December 31, 2009 – Shelved
February 15, 2010 – Started Reading
February 15, 2010 –
page 15
2.98% "Please. I'm going to open my eyes and read that bit again. Please don't tell me she's bought a pair of breasts."
February 17, 2010 –
page 211
41.95% "I'm wondering when Michael gets to play with the new tits? Will I keep reading once I know what he thinks of them?"
February 23, 2010 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 65 (65 new)


notgettingenough Oh but she has. She's gone and mutilated her body just like any ordinary fuckwit would. I'm unspeakably disappointed.

And I don't get it. Autistic people, as I'm told she is one of, buy breasts? Care about the exact measurements of their tits? Care what other people think of the exact measurements of their tits? Feel like whole people if they have bits of silicon shaped like baseballs stuck on their chests?

I must say, I'm not just disappointed that this heroine turns out to be so dismally ordinary. I'm also confused.


Manny I'm sorry your father never got to read this review. It sounds like he would have enjoyed it.



notgettingenough Manny wrote: "I'm sorry your father never got to read this review. It sounds like he would have enjoyed it.
"


My father hated funerals and hence wanted nothing of the sort. I can only hope that he approved of my sitting and reading in preference to looking at his body. It seemed like it was in the spirit of what he might do himself.


Kristi  Siegel notgettingenough wrote: "Manny wrote: "I'm sorry your father never got to read this review. It sounds like he would have enjoyed it.
"

My father hated funerals and hence wanted nothing of the sort. I can only hope that he..."


I'm sorry for your loss as well. Fathers. Daughters. I wonder if fathers know their power.

Your writing is exquisite.



message 5: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant I'm with you on the dead body viewing thing. It's very peculiar that in some areas of Western culture it's not something anyone would ever dream of doing, and a few streets over it's something no one would dream of not doing. Very strange.

Onto another point - I think I have figured out what you're doing. You are gradually writing your autobiography under the guise of book reviews. It's a great idea and I hope you continue. I could see that that would make a book in itself, eventually. Which i would buy. And not just from Amazon second hand.


message 6: by Whitaker (new)

Whitaker I'm sorry for your loss. And I was deeply moved by what you wrote.


message 7: by notgettingenough (last edited Feb 20, 2010 11:57AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

notgettingenough Paul wrote: "Onto another point - I think I have figured out what you're doing. You are gradually writing your autobiography under the guise of book reviews. It's a great idea and I hope you continue. I could see that that would make a book in itself, eventually. Which i would buy. And not just from Amazon second hand."

Gee Paul, I won't say it isn't tempting. Write my autobiography, publish it and sell a copy direct to a man who just isn't usually that fussy, I'd have to say, about where his books come from. (Note to Whitaker: should that be 'about from where his books come'?)

I hate autobiography.

In fact some months ago, soon after my father had his first big-time cerebral haemmorhage (did it take me hours to learn how to spell that at the time) he had a vision for a book he'd written in his head. A C-H can do really quite interesting things to your brain. In this case Paul had decided that a 1950s footballer and Bob Dylan were one and the same. He was lying in hospital, barely conscious, but working out where to hold the book launch.

My sister was slightly freaked out about it. Me, I'm thinking thank Christ he's forgotten about his autobiography. He was only into volume two and still hadn't left his own childhood, but. Soon enough he'd be up to mine, and - what a dreadful thought.

So, if it's all the same to you, I think I'll just stick to book reviews...this is the book review, the whole book review and nothing but the book review, I swear to God.



notgettingenough On the other hand...since it seems to be a source of interest:

My day. I've taken an unusual bus trip with a young wedded couple who met and fell in love while they were both incarcerated in the same lunatic asylum. Later on in the day I was ripped off and stabbed.

My yesterday. Cardsharp hustler again. Introduced to people at a party and Charlie, my sister-in-law's father says straight away 'Tell them what you did in Sydney.' Said with a big smile on his face. 'You mean the cards, don't you?' 'Yes', he says eagerly. 'Charlie, just how far do you want me to go? Do I mention the tight red dress with a zip all the way down? The cigarettes, the drugs, breakfast at noon and dinner at midnight? Am I doing hamburger with the lot here?' And there I was thinking it was only my father who got over-excited.


message 9: by Whitaker (new)

Whitaker Oh dear, I hope you're okay. Or at least better.


notgettingenough Whitaker wrote: "Oh dear, I hope you're okay. Or at least better. "

You are so sweet, Whitaker. Nobody else cares. I'm fine. I can't tell you how I got stabbed as it is too embarrassing. But I can tell you where. It was on the bus. Oh...did you think I meant which bit of my body where?! My thigh. All my lingerie modelling's been cancelled for now...




message 11: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant What was this stabbing incident? This is very disturbing. Do you live in the very roughest part of your city where this kind of thing is a frequent ocurrence? This is a most disturbing turn of events.


notgettingenough Paul wrote: "What was this stabbing incident? This is very disturbing. Do you live in the very roughest part of your city where this kind of thing is a frequent ocurrence? This is a most disturbing turn of events."

You're not going to get me that easily this time. After I laid tossing and turning last night worrying about the bridge tutorial. Only to find out you were joking. You didn't throw it out at all, did you.

Um. You do HAVE a bridge tutorial. I mean, you didn't make up the whole idea of one, did you?


message 13: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant Well... ummm... not... as such


message 14: by Alan (new)

Alan wtf? My life is far too ordinary to take in the turn of events here. You cremated your father on Friday and on Saturday you got stabbed on a bus trip with two married ex-lunatics, before going off to a party? Didn't you have to go to the police station in between and give a statement and then go and lie down a bit?
I like the mangoes story (I like all your stories). I would have done a Michael...


notgettingenough Alan wrote: "wtf? My life is far too ordinary to take in the turn of events here. You cremated your father on Friday and on Saturday you got stabbed on a bus trip with two married ex-lunatics, before going off ..."

Oh, I can see my story needs some clarification. You can see why I don't write fiction. My one sortie into it I somehow ended up with two men called Gordon and George. Unfortunately it got published - obscurely, I promise you will never find it, even if you look. Somebody read it and said to me 'You got Gordon and George mixed up', a charge I vigorously denied...oh, but I had, I discovered when I made myself read it again.

I guess the moral of the story should be name your characters more carefully. I took is as a message from God that I should stop writing fiction. So, I hope you don't think that story about mangoes is made up. Not one word.

But about the bus trips. We are talking two separate bus trips here. The first was with the kiddies, the second was the stabbing. And, look, I really don't want to say exactly what happened in the stabbing, but I stabbed myself, okay?



message 16: by notgettingenough (last edited Feb 22, 2010 03:38AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

notgettingenough Re having stabbed myself. Do you think it is possible to have an immaculate stabbing in the way there is an immaculate conception?

I was wearing one of my favourite dresses and in stabbing my thigh, naturally my dress had to be stabbed through as well. Sorry, Trelise Cooper. Your dress got stabbed, what can I say. The amazing thing is that although I have most clearly been stabbed in the thigh by something that is about the thickness of a knitting needle, I'm just saying, about that thick, I'm absolutely not saying I stabbed myself with a knitting needle, okay; having done that, as far as I can see, the dress is totally unstabbed. I have a hole complete with blood in my thigh and yet my dress is immaculate.


message 17: by Alan (new)

Alan splutter...sorry I had to laugh...stabbed yourself. Not quite as disturbing then (but the 'ripped off...'?).
Is your fiction beyond the scope of google? Did you use a nom-de-plume?
No I didn't think the mangoes story was made up. That would be a minor episode in your rich life.



message 18: by Alan (new)

Alan our last comments crossed.. can I ask what you stabbed yourself with, then?


notgettingenough Well. I will say I had my knitting bag with me. That's all. And, if you think that's not a dangerous thing to do, a woman in the US last year fell and a knitting needle ended up in her heart. She survived, but.


notgettingenough Alan wrote: "splutter...sorry I had to laugh...stabbed yourself. Not quite as disturbing then (but the 'ripped off...'?).
Is your fiction beyond the scope of google? Did you use a nom-de-plume? "


It was long, long ago, before the advent of the internet. It was a story revolving around bridge, it was truly dreadful even without giving the characters the wrong names.


message 21: by Oriana (new)

Oriana I am nearly overwhelmed by this (as someone said above) exquisite review, not to mention the hilariously bizarre discussion that follows. Amazing! Fantastic! This is why I love GR.

I have little to add, but, if I may be so bold, I can answer your grammar question. You said:

p. 231 ‘They had heard no sound from the apartment, and nobody had answered the bell. They returned to their car and parked where they could keep watch on the door.�

Why? Why a comma before the ‘and� in the first of these back-to-back sentences? And if so, then why not in the second?


It's because the first sentence has a subject (and nobody had answered) in the second clause, and the second one doesn't (and parked where), it is still using the they from the first clause. Does that make sense?


message 22: by C. (new)

C. oriana wrote: "I am nearly overwhelmed by this (as someone said above) exquisite review, not to mention the hilariously bizarre discussion that follows. Amazing! Fantastic! This is why I love GR.

I have little t..."


I would just have said 'because it sounds right'.


message 23: by notgettingenough (last edited Mar 07, 2010 03:44AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

notgettingenough So, ripped off....a couple of Sundays ago I was in Adelaide and went to a fringe show called Weights. It was a monologue, true story, about a guy in a NY bar being shot in the eye by a stranger. Loses one eye, blind in the other. Life gets better than it was.

Okay...I know this is supposed to be inspirational, but. It seems to me the point is that his life was indescribably shitty before that. It seemed to me that in order to look on the bright side of this, should it ever happen to you, have a really crap life first. That's the message, the moral. Only get shot in the face by a stranger in a bar if you've had a completely disgusting time first. As messages go, I don't find this one completely useful.

After the show my friend Noela said to me 'Wasn't that amazing, how that guy was blind?' Sometimes my friends make me look bright. 'Helllooo Noela. This was a play we just went to. That man was an actor. He was pretending to be blind.' Then I complained about his compulsion to get a paper towel out of his pocket and wipe his head and face down all the time (he was big black bald dude). She said but it's hot under those lights and I'm like 'Noela, if it had been Romeo and Juliet we were watching they would not have been pulling out paper towels every time they got a bit hot.'

So that night I wrote to Guy Masterton, who put the show on, and inter alia said although Weights was 'okay' what was with that nervous compulsion to use paper towels all the time.

Well, Guy wrote back and I quote:

I can completely understand your feelings regarding Weights, but for me the entire power from that piece is watching the man tell his own story. He was not just a blind man. He was the man of the story. When you consider that he has no sight at all - it is completely black and his movement and positioning on the stage is entirely technical as he feels his way through ropes under the carpet and the heat of the lights out front- he has much much more to deal with than most sighted actors. He also does not wish to have sweat dripping into his eyes which hurts him, hence his compulsion to wipe himself down.


Maybe you heard me groaning at the time I first read this. I've written letters that have had better endings.

I know, I know. You all think I'm supposed to feel bad now, but I don't. What I felt was a bit ripped off, really. I'd paid good money to see an actor playing a blind man and instead I got a blind man pretending to be an actor.

James, however, has made me feel a bit better about the whole thing, talking to him last night. He said 'But the guy made you think he was an actor playing a blind man. So he must have been quite a good actor....' I guess these is a point to that, isn't there?

Then he asked me if I'd told Noela. Hmmm. I just can't make myself do that.

Guy went on to talk about how exquisite the poetry was, and it's true. There were some lovely lines describing the first time he makes love in the blind. He described the girl he was with as 'vulgar and ethereal' Yes, I decided when listening to that. Should I ever get laid again that's what I'm going to be. It sounded perfect.


message 24: by Alan (new)

Alan I have a blind person anecdote to add. I walk down the canal to work (unless it's raining) and have noticed a blind woman taking her dog out for a walk along the towpath. About a month ago she asked for help (icy towpath) and ever since I have walked along with her to my turn-off. She has said she's gone in the cut three times, but says it's safer to let her dog off the lead here for a run around than anywhere else(the dog chases ducks/other dogs in the park). Of course it makes me late for work so I complain to colleagues, and consider ways to avoid her. Then this morning I saw her ahead with another person helping her and i wanted to shout out 'hey! That's my blind person.'

Doesn't add anything to this thread I know.


Christy p. 231 ‘They had heard no sound from the apartment, and nobody had answered the bell. They returned to their car and parked where they could keep watch on the door.�

Why? Why a comma before the ‘and� in the first of these back-to-back sentences? And if so, then why not in the second?


To answer your question about commas, the first sentence in this example has a comma to separate the two clauses because they are independent clauses--they each have a separate subject and verb. The second sentence does not have a comma because the subject at the beginning of the sentence also applies to the second half of the sentence: They returned . . . and parked.


message 26: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant This review came up on the email list thing again and I was disappointed to see that i'd already voted for it.


notgettingenough Paul wrote: "This review came up on the email list thing again and I was disappointed to see that i'd already voted for it."

Sorry, Paul, I only added the picture. It seemed to go with the story, though it is hard to get the idea of that one little scarlet thread. But I'm a historian at heart, so it had to be done. And, of course, I should have unticked that 'Add to my Update Feed' but that is hard to remember.


message 28: by Doug (new) - rated it 5 stars

Doug Brooks Nice dress (your picture).
Enjoyed your .... well.... your writing.


David Cerruti - Since this thread started as a review of The Girl Who Played with Fire, I thought I’d recommend my favorite part of the Millennium series. It is The Girl Who Fixed the Umlaut, by Nora Ephron, in The New Yorker.




notgettingenough David wrote: "- Since this thread started as a review of The Girl Who Played with Fire, I thought I’d recommend my favorite part of the Millennium series. It is The Girl Who Fixed the Umlaut, by Nora Ephron, in ..."

Sniggering as I send it to everyone I know....


message 31: by Mawgojzeta (new)

Mawgojzeta This review, the replies, and the link to the New Yorker are quite a treat!


notgettingenough Mawgojzeta wrote: "This review, the replies, and the link to the New Yorker are quite a treat!"

Thank you! Though David's link is easily the best bit!!!


message 33: by Ian (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Wow, before reading this review, I wondered whether you were a real person.
Now, I understand that you are more real than any of us.
But I have to ask: if you're notgettingenough, where did the nicemango?
During the last drought of almost biblical proportions, the possums ring-barked my Bowen mango tree.
Of all my trees, it was my favourite, even more so than the persimmon.
I phoned my friends begging them to send me a case of mangoes, and they keep sending me bags of grass.
Queensland's finest.


message 34: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant Hey, Not, I just saw the movie and it was complete bollocks. Larsson must be some great writer if he can make a good novel out of such a poxy bag of old plot ideas. The villains were so cartoony and ridiculous I had to keep reminding myself that people I know & respect think this stuff is good.


message 35: by Ian (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Gee, you're getting fussy, Paul.
Isn't a girl and a gun enough for you?
Who cares about the plot, when the girl is HOT!


message 36: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant I checked the reviews & yes, I am the only person who disliked this movie. Others thought it was disappointing & so forth but they all had positive things to say. I am therefore content to stand alone.


message 37: by notgettingenough (last edited Jun 01, 2011 03:59AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

notgettingenough Paul wrote: "I checked the reviews & yes, I am the only person who disliked this movie. Others thought it was disappointing & so forth but they all had positive things to say. I am therefore content to stand alone..."

I think if it is Swedish you aren't allowed to be completely negative (You'd agree, surely? Smiley face thing).

I needed to get some distance, the idea of the books and the movies back to back was too much. But my brother keeps seeing it and saying to me 'So, do you think they are really like that, the Swedes? I mean, you know now, you're living there.' And I say 'Well, Bernard, remember the last time we had this same conversation? I live in Switzerland.' 'Yes, but Sweden is in Switzerland, isn't it? Or is Switzerland in Sweden?' He always forgets which is in which. In his head. And I say 'Were there any little girls called Heidi in the movie? Or the book?' And he says no, and I say 'Well then, you see? Switzerland and Sweden are different places. Neither of them is in the other.'

He's a musician, you see. I don't think he can help it.

But he has certainly made me very interested in seeing the movies. I feel like it will give me an insight into what it's like being him.


message 38: by Paul (last edited Jun 01, 2011 04:29AM) (new)

Paul Bryant well, the first movie was okay, it has snap and crackle and obviously a great heroine; but there was a couple of very nasty sex/rape/torture scenes. The plot is where there things fall to bits - itwas just the old conspiracy gradually revealed with a big fat serial killer at the heart of it all... really, so what? Haven't we seen enough completely unrealistic serial killers in recent decades? (Seven, Saw, et boring al). And movie #2 was just a lot of thriller running about randomly and Darth vader I Am Your Father moments, well, frankly, my dear not, I was hoping for something more elevated. If you haven't read the book, movie #2 is bollocks. If you have read the book, I should imagine it's still bollocks because there are almost no scenes lovingly depicting sandwiches, which I understand play a very considerable part in this ouevre.


David Cerruti Paul wrote: "If you haven't read the book, movie #2 is bollocks."

True enough. I think that applies to all 3 movies. And on many criteria, all 3 books fall apart. But they are such guilty pleasures, people do get hooked. Once past the first chapter of book 1, I was hooked.


message 40: by Ian (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I'm not sure what can be gleaned from the films as we have seen them.
As far as I can remember, the three films have been shaped from six tele-movies.
So they have had to make enormous compromises about how to tell the story and what to leave on the cutting room floor.
I'm sure Daniel Craig wouldn't let the new producers make the same mistake.
I also felt that there was a point at which the novels ceased to be writing and became typing, probably somewhere in the second novel.
It was like a journalist telling a factual story about events that had happened in his head.
I had similar feelings at times during Harry Potter.
It wasn't really "writing", it was "story-telling", if you agree that there can be a difference.
I wanted the author to go beyond story or plot, but he didn't.
The political context was interesting initially, but it was still a plot device.
SPOILER QUESTION
Paul, have you read the third book or seen the third film?
Although the issue is handled mechanically in the films, I don't think I would say that he is just a regulation big fat serial killer.
Apart from the identity issue, he is more like an enforcer or Mafia footsoldier.
Besides, 90% of action, crime and thriller novels just use the same "poxy bag of old plot ideas", don't they?


message 41: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant yes they do and that's why I don't like thrillers or detective stories. I like police procedurals and true crime. True crime is a whole lot more believable. The thriller writers always like to soup up their stories to the point where they strain & then break this reader's willing suspension of disbelief, but they they use the Poxy bag of Tricks so incessently it becomes almost like a Brechtian alienation device. For a more focussed diatribe about this wobegone genre see my review of The Last Good Kiss.


message 42: by Ian (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I never read true crime, but I probably don't know what I'm missing.
To be really honest, all of the sexual tension ran out of this series, when you realised that:
SPOILER
Lisbeth was going to keep resisting Blomkvist's advances in the later books (because she had no sexual need for him).
Call this castration myth or whatever, but I just couldn't relate to a hero in whom the heroine found no sexual attraction or satisfaction.
A man needs a maid who needs a man.
I had to start relating to both characters as people, not actors in my own sexual fantasy.
Perish the thought.
From that point onwards, it was only half the fun.
Of course, I imagined that, even if Lisbeth wasn't attracted to Blomkvist, she would be attracted to me.
This is a variation on the old theme that a woman might only be asexual or a lesbian, because she hasn't met me yet.
Or you.


Manny Ian wrote: "I'm not sure what can be gleaned from the films as we have seen them.
As far as I can remember, the three films have been shaped from six tele-movies.
So they have had to make enormous compromises about how to tell the story and what to leave on the cutting room floor."


Having seen the uncut versions, which for some unknown reason are only available in Scandinavian languages, I can confirm that they are much better. The tempo is agreeably slowed down so that they feel like the books, and there is proper continuity.

I agree that the story in #2 is rather weak, but I don't like them for the story, rather the people and the atmosphere, which I think comes across well in the long versions.

I would be hypocritical if I didn't add that I thought the lesbian sex scene was smokin' hot.


message 44: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant It appears to be a universal inflexible rule of human sexuality that the great majority of men enjoy a smoking hot lesbian scene and yet the gender-reverse appears not to be true. I never did yet hear an explanation for this and I wonder if this broadminded concatenation of the learned here gathered could venture forth.


David Cerruti "Never judge a book by its movie." - J. W. Eagan


message 46: by Ian (last edited Jun 01, 2011 03:45PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Should we go there?
OK.
I used to have a personal, untested theory that homosexuality and homosexual love is much more grounded in an aesthetic appreciation of the male form, yourself or your ideal self, and therefore is more narcissistic.
We seek the self in the other.
It is basically self-love.
Whereas I don't feel that lesbianism was originally so self-obsessed or concerned about finding the self in the other. (It might have changed as it has broadened.)
Women seem to be genuinely interested in the other in their own right.
And therefore the pleasure and satisfaction of the other as a goal.
Lesbian sex might therefore be more "sharing" or concerned with the satisfaction of the other, whereas I would venture to say that this idealised (and potentially or probably wrong) vision of gay sex might be more concerned with your own pleasure.
In other words, it is mutual or simultaneous narcissism, whereas lesbian sex is mutually other focussed and the pleasure derives from the pleasure of the other.
So men watch lesbian sex, so they can imagine finding themselves in the other (so to speak), pleasuring them and therefore pleasuring themselves.
Whereas when women watch gay sex, they just see two male narcissists pleasuring themselves (i.e., each pleasuring himself rather than the two pleasuring one another).
I developed these theories in the 80's, when there was a lot more promiscuous gay sex going on (apparently), and it doesn't really apply to the sort of relationships my gay friends have now, at least at a social level, I don't know what their sex is like.


message 47: by Ian (last edited Jun 01, 2011 04:03PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Good quote, David.
Manny, I'm glad we can come to you for a few uncut insights.
I too put up with a fair bit in the books and the films, because I liked the people and the background of journalism/ politics (more so than I liked "The Imperfectionists).
Also, Manny, I don't know whether you're into music, but next time you're in Sweden, could you go and see a Soundtrack of Our Lives concert for me?


message 49: by Ian (last edited Jun 01, 2011 07:40PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Led Zep on the soundtrack of the trailer?
I hope they haven't runed the book.
I just realised it's a cover by Karen O of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails.
I was just listening to a podcast with Philip Pullman and he quoted an exchange with James M. Cain about the film version of his book "Double Indemnity".
A journalist asked, "Aren't you worried about what they've done to your book?"
He replied, "They haven't done anything to my book. It's still there, exactly the same, over there on the shelf."
(Quoted from memory.)


Catie Kelly About the "pretend breasts" thing -- I was also really bothered by that element, but a friend pointed out to me that Lisbeth had a clear view of her own body as "childlike" before the operation, and that considering her past, she of all people had an understandable desire to not have people to perceive her as childlike anymore, or to have to think of herself that way either... still weird, yes, but see it that way made what she did FAR more understandable for me.


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