The Emma M. Lion Appreciation Society discussion

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The Q
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Feb 26, 2023 04:36PM

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Good point. On my re-read, I did notice that the Angel/Boy Blue situation provided a springboard for Arch and Quincy to have a discussion over dinner (their first real conversation of any length, I think?) about the poet who went from being a cynic to a believer in love.
Which, swoon, that was a great conversation.
Which, swoon, that was a great conversation.


That is an insightful take on Arch’s arc. It really did give the character depth.
Never too soon to start rereading!
Emily wrote: "I loved Quincy's development, but I admit that about halfway through, I was afraid that Arch was just too perfect... handsome, clever, and rich, not to mention kind and patient! But I loved how he ..."
I'm re-reading, and it's all even better the second time through--I'm going quite slow and just lingering around in Rhysdon day by day. I think I'm going to have a Beth Brower book going on repeat from here on out, no matter what else I'm reading. They're a whole vibe that I just crave.
For me, I think when Arch became human was when Quincy showed up at his house with business papers and she got immediately wrong-footed by all the high-society crowd -- Arch had these moments of petulance, of not wanting to smooth the way. It felt like his times of (understandable) impatience, like that, brought him and Quincy to a slightly more even playing field.
I'm re-reading, and it's all even better the second time through--I'm going quite slow and just lingering around in Rhysdon day by day. I think I'm going to have a Beth Brower book going on repeat from here on out, no matter what else I'm reading. They're a whole vibe that I just crave.
For me, I think when Arch became human was when Quincy showed up at his house with business papers and she got immediately wrong-footed by all the high-society crowd -- Arch had these moments of petulance, of not wanting to smooth the way. It felt like his times of (understandable) impatience, like that, brought him and Quincy to a slightly more even playing field.
I'm up to Chapter 25 (46%) in my re-read of The Q, and I'm connecting to the unsaid details so much more this time through. On my first read, I was still feeling pretty skeptical of Quincy at this point, and not quite sure what to make of Arch. The passage in the cathedral completely went over my head the first time. I didn't even try to parse it out.
"Did I interrupt something? Were you asking God for deliverance from The Q? Or--"
"No." Arch leaned forward, resting his elbows on his knees as he craned his neck, eyes moving around the windows as if they were familiar faces to him. "I was--never mind. I was sorting a difficult problem."
Okay, first of all, this beautifully mirrors the scene in the train station, which is Quincy's thinking place. So now we have a thinking place for Arch, but it's not exactly like Quincy's place of numbers and power and perfection. His thinking place is full of light and full of human stories.
This fits in with what Mary says to Quincy later, "The way you are with your numbers is the way James is with people. Very astute and concerned. So, when something turns into a puzzle without a clear solution, it vexes him. He can't control everything, and he sometimes has the mistaken notion he should."
😭 the commitment to character in this book is just *chef's kiss*
That and the fact that Quincy and Arch are simultaneously different and the same. So beautiful.
Anyway, back to the cathedral. What was the problem Arch was working out? To some degree, it was Quincy herself, right? I think so. Because in the next chapter, he invites her to his home for that lovely informal dinner.
The evening starts with Quincy alone with Arch's father, a stranger to her, and no Arch or Mary around. Why?
Then there's the most beautiful violin anyone has ever seen laying temptingly nestled in its velvet case within her line of sight, and which Lord Arch won't say belongs to him. Why?
I mean, once Arch reveals (view spoiler) , it's really obvious to me and incredibly touching that Arch is 100% on Quincy's side and knocking himself out trying to help her.
Combine that with their little aside, "Good. I'd hate to think you invited me out of pity."
"Never for pity; always for the company."
and I. Am. Dead. These two belong together, and I didn't quite get it for a long time on the first read.
Annnnd I also completely missed putting the pieces together that they serve a mint-flavored soup (?) which sounds weird and which they've clearly never had before, but which is actually Quincy's favorite flavor, so, oh my goodness, I think Arch asked his cook to put mint in the soup just in case Quincy came over? Random and absolutely adorable.
"Did I interrupt something? Were you asking God for deliverance from The Q? Or--"
"No." Arch leaned forward, resting his elbows on his knees as he craned his neck, eyes moving around the windows as if they were familiar faces to him. "I was--never mind. I was sorting a difficult problem."
Okay, first of all, this beautifully mirrors the scene in the train station, which is Quincy's thinking place. So now we have a thinking place for Arch, but it's not exactly like Quincy's place of numbers and power and perfection. His thinking place is full of light and full of human stories.
This fits in with what Mary says to Quincy later, "The way you are with your numbers is the way James is with people. Very astute and concerned. So, when something turns into a puzzle without a clear solution, it vexes him. He can't control everything, and he sometimes has the mistaken notion he should."
😭 the commitment to character in this book is just *chef's kiss*
That and the fact that Quincy and Arch are simultaneously different and the same. So beautiful.
Anyway, back to the cathedral. What was the problem Arch was working out? To some degree, it was Quincy herself, right? I think so. Because in the next chapter, he invites her to his home for that lovely informal dinner.
The evening starts with Quincy alone with Arch's father, a stranger to her, and no Arch or Mary around. Why?
Then there's the most beautiful violin anyone has ever seen laying temptingly nestled in its velvet case within her line of sight, and which Lord Arch won't say belongs to him. Why?
I mean, once Arch reveals (view spoiler) , it's really obvious to me and incredibly touching that Arch is 100% on Quincy's side and knocking himself out trying to help her.
Combine that with their little aside, "Good. I'd hate to think you invited me out of pity."
"Never for pity; always for the company."
and I. Am. Dead. These two belong together, and I didn't quite get it for a long time on the first read.
Annnnd I also completely missed putting the pieces together that they serve a mint-flavored soup (?) which sounds weird and which they've clearly never had before, but which is actually Quincy's favorite flavor, so, oh my goodness, I think Arch asked his cook to put mint in the soup just in case Quincy came over? Random and absolutely adorable.
Also, why does Quincy say that she finds their odd little room full of strange knick-knacks "clean"?
It's an unusual word choice. I'm wondering if she feels that navigating most social occasions is "messy," but not this one. There's space enough for her to unfurl a little bit. And so she's metaphorically saying that the room's décor feels... clean.
I'm not sure, though. And if anyone were to suggest to her that she was using a metaphor, I'm sure she'd roll her eyes...
This exchange is also (I think) the first time Arch calls her Quincy, although he reverts back to Miss St Claire quickly enough
🥹
It's an unusual word choice. I'm wondering if she feels that navigating most social occasions is "messy," but not this one. There's space enough for her to unfurl a little bit. And so she's metaphorically saying that the room's décor feels... clean.
I'm not sure, though. And if anyone were to suggest to her that she was using a metaphor, I'm sure she'd roll her eyes...
This exchange is also (I think) the first time Arch calls her Quincy, although he reverts back to Miss St Claire quickly enough
🥹
Chapter 26 ponderings
The beginning of Arch and Quincy's breakfast tradition is such a beautiful thawing between them. And there's some interesting foreshadowing in this chapter that I didn't catch the first time through.
"Where did you get this?" she asked.
With a smile and a nod towards the extra stool behind the counter--which Quincy lifted over the counter to his waiting hand--Arch answered only as he opened the parcel.
"Pandora," he said.
"What?"
"I got this from Pandora. I'm afraid that if I open the box, I will start something rather dangerous."
Wonderful.
This chapter also includes one of the many little unexplored rabbit holes that Beth Brower seems to enjoy tossing out... Arch draws Quincy's attention to an article in The Times entitled "The Q, Quincy St. Claire & The Perfect Marriage of Profit and Poetry." First of all, that's a fantastic (also foreshadow-y) title. Second of all, Arch seems to really want Quincy to read it and even seems a little sensitive to her reaction.
"What was Priest thinking! I'm going to haunt him for this."
"Why?" Arch asked, seemingly giving more attention to his croissant than to Quincy.
Hmmmm. So, who wrote this article? And what was its angle? Besides, you know, the "perfect marriage" of "profit and poetry." Gah, I do love that title, in view of what develops later.
Chapter 28 Ponderings
This is when Crow goes back to being just a friend--although I, for one, always had a bit of trouble understanding the dynamic between him and Quincy. I don't seem to have a very clear idea of his personality or what he wants. I guess when I hear "smuggler," I think "pirate," and all I can bring to mind are caricatures.
Clearly Crow needs his own book so that I can see him in something more like 360 😉
The beginning of Arch and Quincy's breakfast tradition is such a beautiful thawing between them. And there's some interesting foreshadowing in this chapter that I didn't catch the first time through.
"Where did you get this?" she asked.
With a smile and a nod towards the extra stool behind the counter--which Quincy lifted over the counter to his waiting hand--Arch answered only as he opened the parcel.
"Pandora," he said.
"What?"
"I got this from Pandora. I'm afraid that if I open the box, I will start something rather dangerous."
Wonderful.
This chapter also includes one of the many little unexplored rabbit holes that Beth Brower seems to enjoy tossing out... Arch draws Quincy's attention to an article in The Times entitled "The Q, Quincy St. Claire & The Perfect Marriage of Profit and Poetry." First of all, that's a fantastic (also foreshadow-y) title. Second of all, Arch seems to really want Quincy to read it and even seems a little sensitive to her reaction.
"What was Priest thinking! I'm going to haunt him for this."
"Why?" Arch asked, seemingly giving more attention to his croissant than to Quincy.
Hmmmm. So, who wrote this article? And what was its angle? Besides, you know, the "perfect marriage" of "profit and poetry." Gah, I do love that title, in view of what develops later.
Chapter 28 Ponderings
This is when Crow goes back to being just a friend--although I, for one, always had a bit of trouble understanding the dynamic between him and Quincy. I don't seem to have a very clear idea of his personality or what he wants. I guess when I hear "smuggler," I think "pirate," and all I can bring to mind are caricatures.
Clearly Crow needs his own book so that I can see him in something more like 360 😉
Chapter 31 Ponderings
"Let the Cider Press Be, Quincy"
Chapter 31 is one of my favorite chapters. We get sparse but evocative descriptions of a glorious fall day; Arch abandons his usual guarded calmness in favor of declaiming sentimental poetry over the edge of an oceanside cliff; and Quincy is willingly unwillingly along for the ride. It's just... lovely.
"A walk," he said as if she had not left the room at all.
"Does this fulfill a requirement?"
"Just the requirement of every human soul."
By the way, I'm pretending that "fall" is the proper term in Rhysdon-based English... even though my brain tells me that since they're geographically close to Britain it should be "autumn".
That's why it's so handy that Rhysdon is a fictional place. If there's anything in the writing that ever seems off to me, I just chalk it up to Rhysdon custom 😆
And of course, we have these immortal words from Quincy: "Is all poetry this long?" What a little troll she is 😏 I feel like she's almost playing a part here, though--she's saying what her persona demands, and what she knows will needle Arch... but yeah, she's totally (sort of) enjoying it.
Question: Quincy wonders how Arch knows that she plays her violin late at night to settle her mind. How does he know that? He admits to wandering the streets of the southeast part of the city when he can't sleep. But I would be willing to bet his perigrinations have sometimes brought him up Gainsford Street, where he's been able to hear the strains of her violin music... and I'm pretty sure he can intuit the rest.
"Let the Cider Press Be, Quincy"
Chapter 31 is one of my favorite chapters. We get sparse but evocative descriptions of a glorious fall day; Arch abandons his usual guarded calmness in favor of declaiming sentimental poetry over the edge of an oceanside cliff; and Quincy is willingly unwillingly along for the ride. It's just... lovely.
"A walk," he said as if she had not left the room at all.
"Does this fulfill a requirement?"
"Just the requirement of every human soul."
By the way, I'm pretending that "fall" is the proper term in Rhysdon-based English... even though my brain tells me that since they're geographically close to Britain it should be "autumn".
That's why it's so handy that Rhysdon is a fictional place. If there's anything in the writing that ever seems off to me, I just chalk it up to Rhysdon custom 😆
And of course, we have these immortal words from Quincy: "Is all poetry this long?" What a little troll she is 😏 I feel like she's almost playing a part here, though--she's saying what her persona demands, and what she knows will needle Arch... but yeah, she's totally (sort of) enjoying it.
Question: Quincy wonders how Arch knows that she plays her violin late at night to settle her mind. How does he know that? He admits to wandering the streets of the southeast part of the city when he can't sleep. But I would be willing to bet his perigrinations have sometimes brought him up Gainsford Street, where he's been able to hear the strains of her violin music... and I'm pretty sure he can intuit the rest.
Chapter 44 Ponderings
I've been puzzling a little bit over this passage from the Fothergils' ball:
"You preach too much."
"Preach back. I can handle it. And, if I'm wrong, I can change."
"I don't want you to change."
A strange expression crossed Arch's face, a mixture of deep satisfaction and mystification. "But what is love if it's not wanting the best for the person you care about?"
"Not love," Quincy said as if she knew anything about it.
"You are trying to change for me tonight, trying to keep your sharp edges away from people, making an effort to act in a way different from the harshness to which you are accustomed, all because you know I would be grateful. How is that any different? I'm not asking you to cease being Quincy St. Claire, but have I not asked you to be a better version of Quincy St. Claire on my behalf this evening?"
I guess what's throwing me is that, in a lot of books, a character saying something like "I don't want you to change" is viewed as a positive thing, an affirmation of love.
And yet that's not quite how Arch takes it. Which makes sense, in light of his further words... except that I'm also waffling on who exactly we're talking about here. The conversation is mostly about how Quincy is trying to change, and yet Arch throws out the invitation for her to "preach back," and that he can change if he needs to. Up to this point we haven't seen any reason that Arch needs to change. But I guess what he's defending here � and what Quincy can't quite wrap her head around yet � is the idea that people who are committed to each other should be able to communicate about what each one needs from the other.
So far Arch has been more successful at doing this than Quincy... and so far she's been the one needing to make all the adjustments. But right in the midst of asking her to adapt at this party, I'm now struck by how he's taking a detour to throw out this invitation, this acknowledgement, that at some point she might need him to be different too. And that she should absolutely feel comfortable telling him that.
It's quite generous. I love it.
And, of course, as we know on a re-read, that is exactly what has to happen later on. She has to tell him how he needed to be different for her at a critical moment. For lack of that communication, they would founder.
That's it. That's what he's inviting, here at the Fothergils.
Sigh. So good. So foreshadowy.
I've been puzzling a little bit over this passage from the Fothergils' ball:
"You preach too much."
"Preach back. I can handle it. And, if I'm wrong, I can change."
"I don't want you to change."
A strange expression crossed Arch's face, a mixture of deep satisfaction and mystification. "But what is love if it's not wanting the best for the person you care about?"
"Not love," Quincy said as if she knew anything about it.
"You are trying to change for me tonight, trying to keep your sharp edges away from people, making an effort to act in a way different from the harshness to which you are accustomed, all because you know I would be grateful. How is that any different? I'm not asking you to cease being Quincy St. Claire, but have I not asked you to be a better version of Quincy St. Claire on my behalf this evening?"
I guess what's throwing me is that, in a lot of books, a character saying something like "I don't want you to change" is viewed as a positive thing, an affirmation of love.
And yet that's not quite how Arch takes it. Which makes sense, in light of his further words... except that I'm also waffling on who exactly we're talking about here. The conversation is mostly about how Quincy is trying to change, and yet Arch throws out the invitation for her to "preach back," and that he can change if he needs to. Up to this point we haven't seen any reason that Arch needs to change. But I guess what he's defending here � and what Quincy can't quite wrap her head around yet � is the idea that people who are committed to each other should be able to communicate about what each one needs from the other.
So far Arch has been more successful at doing this than Quincy... and so far she's been the one needing to make all the adjustments. But right in the midst of asking her to adapt at this party, I'm now struck by how he's taking a detour to throw out this invitation, this acknowledgement, that at some point she might need him to be different too. And that she should absolutely feel comfortable telling him that.
It's quite generous. I love it.
And, of course, as we know on a re-read, that is exactly what has to happen later on. She has to tell him how he needed to be different for her at a critical moment. For lack of that communication, they would founder.
That's it. That's what he's inviting, here at the Fothergils.
Sigh. So good. So foreshadowy.