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I'd like to know what you would like to be able to find. So much of what's on the fantasy bookshelves seems repetitive and derivative. Every book is set in the author's imaginary world, and features a simplistic, childish map at the beginning with obviously and badly invented place names; good characters have vaguely Celtic-sounding names; there are always elves, dwarves and all too often orcs or some race that sounds like that.
I, personally, would like something different when it comes to fantasy, by an author not afraid to break the conventions.

What do you all think?

I can't remember the last time I read a fantasy book with elves or dwarves or orcs in it.

I'm not a fan of the ASoIaF trend of the less fantasy elements a series has the better it's received. However, as I get older I find I want to read about "real" characters with complex personalities. I don't really like the cookie cutter boy discovers world themed fantasy anymore.

Scott wrote: "I'd like to know what you would like to be able to find. So much of what's on the fantasy bookshelves seems repetitive and derivative. Every book is set in the author's imaginary world, and feature..."

Try Brandon Sanderson's 'The Way Of Kings'. Very original and refreshing. One of the best novels I have read in a long time.

Have you read the Malazan books? Anything but simple and familiar.

I don't think it's true that fantasy is repetitive. If the writing and characters are good, I never get tired of the world. Fantasy has much more depth than say, paranormal or YA, or the general fiction books. There's just so much that can happen in a fantasy novel that you won't see anywhere else. And I love maps. :)

It would get tiring if the authors you're picking just aren't that good.

I love the elves in the fantasy genres much, much better than in paranormal. Have you read Juliet Marillier? DAUGHTER OF THE FOREST is what I would start with.

What exactly are you asking? Are you looking for recommendations? Asking us to defend our genre of choice? The orginal question, meaning to or not, does come across as condescending.

All art is derivative & writing is an art, but I certainly think there is plenty of wildly different fantasies out there even among similar subgenres.

You can also find a ton of stuff - mostly popularized crap - that is extremely similar, but it's been that way for a long time. Many of the old space operas were practically indistinguishable, as were a lot of the detective & adventure stories of the early 1900's. Now it seems to be urban/paranormal/romance fantasies.

I think whatever is popular tends to get written into mush. I enjoy reading a lot of it, but don't consider it great literature. I find it difficult to remember details or even differences between Sookie, Anita Blake, Mercy Thompson, Kitty Noville & the many other paranormal heroines, but I do find them entertaining & relaxing to read.

I think it works that way with popular authors, too. Some tend to get caught up in publishing the next book, not writing great stuff. It might be entertaining, though. Clancy, Butcher & Piers Anthony make that list, IMO. I've enjoyed their stuff in the past & will still occasionally pick up a book by them, but I don't expect much any more.

Some authors don't give in to the publishing craze. George R.R. Martin is one who seems to keep his quality up, although his publishing rate just upsets all his readers. We can't have it both ways, though. Quality & speed are often at odds.

I read outside the popular authors fairly often. There are some excellent & very poor writers here on GR that are self or small press published. That's where having friends here really comes in handy as they can turn me on to good, little known authors. I've also had chances to proofread some very good stuff by new authors, but have also read quite a few books that aren't quite there yet.

As to what type of fantasy I LIKE to read... Well, it depends on my mood. Sometimes I don't want to read fantasy at all. Other times I just want to relax. Sometimes I want something more challenging or fulfilling. Luckily, I have a large TBR pile, a lot of friends here with similar tastes reviewing books, & accounts at Amazon, PaperBackSwap, & BookMooch to feed me whatever I want.

I think the trouble comes in when we try to fit something into a genre. It makes writers feel as if there are certain aspects that must be in a book for it to qualify as "fantasy." Just like readers expect certain things if they pick up something labeled "fantasy."

I try to judge what I want to read next by the story, the characters and even the cover. I try to avoid only reading something by what it is labeled.

Jim wrote: "All art is derivative & writing is an art, but I certainly think there is plenty of wildly different fantasies out there even among similar subgenres.

You can also find a ton of stuff - mostly po..."

I'm pretty much with you on this, Jim, and my moods and needs change and what I like or want to read are dependent on on them. Sometimes I just want a classic fantasy with orcs and elves and dwarves, but with new characters and stories. Sometimes, I want to read an award winning literary fiction. Or sometimes I feel like reading an established or dead author in toto. Almost any time I can read an old or new space opera.

For fantasy, I like most but paranormal romance.

I'm not a big one for pigeon holing books by genre, either. Unfortunately, it's something I often have to deal with when buying books. IMO, 'fantasy' can cover most any kind of fiction including, but not limited to SF, romance, detective, adventure & S&S. Most of my favorite books are on a gray line between all of those genres. I believe that the 3 I'm thinking of (Lord of Light, This Immortal, & The Einstein Intersection) are all classified as SF, though.

Scott wrote: "I'd like to know what you would like to be able to find. So much of what's on the fantasy bookshelves seems repetitive and derivative. Every book is set in the author's imaginary world, and feature..."

I think you need to widen your fantasy horizons. I rarely read anything like that. Try Carol Berg or Janny Wurts or C.J.Cherryh's Fortress series. All stretch one's ability to think, and have brilliant writing styles.

hmmm...I like fantasy books with dwarfs, Orc's and heaps loads of magic etc. I also read other types of fantasy that doesn't mention a dwarf etc at all. Of course there is alot of rubbish in genres of fantasy (as with any other) but its the be expected, styles come and go and tastes change. I feel the fantasy available out there is just right, you just need to pick up the right books to find the ones that you really think break your personal mould in the genre.

I can't remember any orcs or dwarfs in my fantasy. Guess I've been lucky.

As long as the book is well-written and contains a good story, I don't mind elves or dwarves.

Sandra, I've never heard of Carol Berg and as the other two mentioned are favs, do you have a good starting point for her?

Helen wrote: "As long as the book is well-written and contains a good story, I don't mind elves or dwarves.

Sandra, I've never heard of Carol Berg and as the other two mentioned are favs, do you have a good ..."

I'm not Sandra, but I am a Carol Berg fan. She does a standalone you could try Song of the Beast. It's good, but not her best. I really liked her lighthouse duology, Flesh and Spirit#1 and Breath and Bone#2. Excellent books there.

She also has a trilogy I love - The Rai-Kirah trilogy:
Transformation#1, Revelation#2, and Restoration.

Her newest is the Collegia Magica starting with The Spirit Lens. The second book is out and the third is scheduled to come out in January next year I believe.

I'd recommend the Rai-Kirah trilogy or Lighthouse Duo. Of course everything I've read of hers has been excellent. Depends on how much you want to invest in the books. The first Rai-Kirah book stands well on its own, but Flesh and Spirit and Breath and Bone are very connected to each other.

Enjoy your foray into Carol Berg. She's a treat!

Helen wrote: "As long as the book is well-written and contains a good story, I don't mind elves or dwarves.

Sandra, I've never heard of Carol Berg and as the other two mentioned are favs, do you have a good ..."

What Amelia said.

I'd like to read brilliant epic fantasy. Unfortunately, I don't think any has been written since Tolkien. [There's been lots of enjoyable-if-you're-into-it epic fantasy, and some actually-quite-good-really epic fantasy, but no seriously-brilliant-by-any-standards epic fantasy. At least, I've not heard about it]. You know, books with an epic scale, and possibly even dragons and elves and dwarves and whatnot, but that can appeal on all levels, literary as well as popcorn.

So far it seems that the writers who have been able to inject that literary touch have avoided epic fantasy like the plague and stuck to weirder, more novel ideas, which is fine, but a shame. Hopefully it's only temporary. I think that modern fantasy authors represent a step in the right direction - with at least nods in the direction of depth and complexity as regards theme and character - but still have a long way to go.

I think too much of the fantasy (especially the big, fat fantasy novels) is too constricted. You have an entire multiverse to play around in; why is everything confined to a single (vaguely 14th Century European)continent on a single world? That's one of the things I love about Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion books -- all those different intersecting layers of realities and all the movement between them. Or something like Michael Reaves's The Shattered World where characters sail flying boats between floating shards of a planet.

Not that I dislike the more conventional stuff; I'm just always on the lookout for alternatives.

I agree, Joseph. There's way too much medieval stuff (says me who's just about to release one that's just that!), but it seems to be what readers like because they know it. You're right, though, fantasy allows a writer to experiment with totally different worlds. The difficulty then is making them understandable and totally believable.

There seems to be a belief amongst new fantasy writers (from what I've seen on writing forums) that there are rules to fantasy (eg. dragons must breathe fire). There are no rules except that the world must make sense and follow it's own rules consistently. Being a fantasy writer is like being a god of your very own universe. There are some really good creations out there if you look.

I love the medieval stuff because I love medieval history but I don't read it all the time. I have many different types of fantasy on my shelves. I read whatever I am in the mood for at the time and I'm not apologizing to anyone for liking big fat epic novels.

I love medieval. That's one of my favorite things about fantssy, but it has to be authentic or I get in a mood, similar to The Incredible Hulk. :)

Lisa wrote: "I love the medieval stuff because I love medieval history but I don't read it all the time. I have many different types of fantasy on my shelves. I read whatever I am in the mood for at the time a..."

:D lol

Wastrel wrote: "I'd like to read brilliant epic fantasy. Unfortunately, I don't think any has been written since Tolkien. [There's been lots of enjoyable-if-you're-into-it epic fantasy, and some actually-quite-goo..."

I agree that LoTR is a classic. I've read it quite a few times & it seems most have, but I don't like the idea that it is the ultimate fantasy. I think Martin's 'Fire & Ice', Donaldson's 'Thomas Covenant', & Janny Wurts has several that are all right up there. I might also include Zelazny, Brust, McKillip, & Modessit. They've all brought a lot into the genre, written complex, cohesive worlds, & done so very well.

It's true that none of the above spent their entire life working on a single fantasy world. There, everyone has to bow to Tolkien, but in many ways his characters & world were somewhat mundane compared to some of theirs. They've expanded the realm of epic fantasy in ways he never could have imagined, IMO.

I'm probably one of the few fantasy readers who's never read Lord of the Rings. I've seen the movies several times, and nothing in them made me want to run out and get the books. It's probably a decent enough world, but nothing stands out for me. Mediocre screenplay? Or was there just not much to work with?

I've read people whose worldbuilding is so much better.

I do want to try Patricia McKillip, but her ebooks are overpriced, and I don't do physical books anymore.

My husband and sons are huge fans but I have only seen bits and pieces of the movies.

If the Lord of the Rings movies don't do much for you the books probably wouldn't either. The movies are very faithful to the source. I love both the books and movies but to be honest I have read books that I've enjoyed more. They are sort of...old fashioned? Stiff? Formal? I also think that they are too familiar. Even if you have never read a fantasy book in your life chances are you've heard of Lord of the Rings. And almost every fantasy author was inspired by Tolkien. Without these books we might not have fantasy as we know it today.

And maybe it's because I'd read the Wheel of Time series before I'd seen the LotR movies. I had so much fun with that series that it took awhile before anything else impressed me.

I'd never really heard of the books to be honest, but when I heard about the movies, I bought The Hobbit and attempted to read it.

But when I saw the Interview with a Vampire movie, I was so intrigued with the world and characters that i just had to know more, and when I realized it was a series, I was like a kid in a candy store. And the books were so much better than the movie, and the world came even more alive for me.

Traci, I think you didn't like Eye of the World? That book was just setting things up, and when I recently reread it, admittedly, I was thinking, where are the characters I love? It wasn't as good as the rest of the series, but still a great read. The characters were a little stiff, but I'm sure you'd like The Great Hunt. :D

I did attempt a reread of Eye of the World and didn't like it. But I loved the books when I was younger. I stopped around book four and wanted to continue so I could finish it next year when the last book comes out. But since my last review I've bought Eye of the World on my nook, it was only $2, and plan to read it again. I'm hoping I was just in a bad mood to do a reread. Or maybe there was another book I wanted to get to...but because I loved it so much when I was in school it's getting another chance.

I'm just now reading The Lord of the Rings and thoroughly enjoying it. It's very charming.

I hated The Eye of the World, couldn't stand the stupidity of the characters, and wasn't interested enough to find out if they grew up or not. Several people told me they really don't.

Janny Wurts Wars of Light and Shadow is so much richer, deeper, complex. Characters are richer and they grow and change. Events have an impact on them. The magic is phenomenal. There are some similarities to the Middle Ages, but it is only faint.

Sometime I'm going to work my way to reading Janny Wurts. I'm devoting this coming year to epic series that I've been meaning to start/finish. I'm afraid though that The Eye of the World might be a book I enjoyed when I was as young as the characters but will be unable to connect with now...but like I said. One more chance. I'd really like to finish it.

What I really want is a thinking man's, or woman, popcorn entertainment, dragon slaying, magic slinging, gods plotting, action filled, epic fantasy.

Of course, all this talk of medieval fantasy reminds me that it's been several years since my last Lord of the Rings reread; must remedy that soon.

And Traci, what you described: ...thinking man's, or woman, popcorn entertainment, dragon slaying, magic slinging, gods plotting, action filled, epic fantasy. sounds like the Holy Grail.

Malazan.... reading this series seems like an answered prayer. :)

I love to read most all types of fantasies. My favorite types are the series. I look forward to reading about a character that I can get hooked on. I enjoy reading medieval and supernatural fantasies most.
I really have gotten stuck on Michael J Sullivan's Riyria Revelations. I'm pretty much biting my nails waiting for the sixth one to come out. I just finished Penelope Fletcher's Rae Wilder Series and I am waiting for the third installment of Kara Thorpe's Family Lies series.

What fantasy I like to read really depends on my mood. I enjoy every subgenre of fantasy. Magical or non-magical. I think urban fantasy is my least favorite, but I still read it every once in a while if I'm in the mood for it. I might like reading adventurous fantasy the most, so the more of that there is, the better. As long as it's not too cheesy. But sometimes I don't mind that either. It also has to move at a good pace and not plod along. But no matter the genre, I want it to be memorable. I want to remember that great book I read for years. The weird part is there are some bad books I've read that are also memorable lol.

Traci,

I've had a similar problem with Robert Jordan's series. Now I loved Eye of the World so much so that I jumped right into reading the rest of the series. However around book 6 or 7 I began to lose interest. The subplots and characters were going in directions I just found uninteresting.

In a recent WoT discussion, I've been promised that the later books make up for the slowness of the middle ones and so I'm going to give reading it another shot. I hate to leave a series unfinished.

There are some bad books with memorable characters that I still love. The Hickman/Weis Dragonlance series. Imo, characters are the most important part of any book. If I can't care about the players I don't care about the world. No matter how beautifully constructed it might be.

Thanks Amelia, I shall check them out.

Honestly I haven't read Brooks, Feist, Weis and the like, so I'm sort of wondering... Who are these "generic, cliche" writers that everyone always talks about. I mean those 3 are names I often hear for using some tropes typical to fantasy but who else? I'm much more familiar with the Martins, Rothfuss, Abercrombies of the world who are all about twisting genre conventions.

David Eddings, R.A. Salvatore, Robert Jordan, Terry Goodkind,...
IMO, you can add these writers. It was a style of writing popular in the eighties and nineties that was heavily influenced by Tolkien. It's what I call the Star Wars plot. A small town, or farm boy, with a mysterious history, gets involved in a big scale war and becomes a hero.
They're generally more action-y than recent fantasy. Magic, sword fights, dragons, orcs, and all the other stuff people tend to think of with fantasy.

Same here. I'm reading the fantasy I want to read. The only small town boy becoming a hero and starting a war I've read is Jordan. It's not in every book I read.

I've been reading mostly women epic fantasy, because they bring the emotional connection to the characters I need, while also writing excellent books.

Katharine Kerr, IMO, is doing something unique, and very ambitious. All my authors are different, and are not just following the typical Tolkien formula.

Nicki wrote: "...These days the internet makes it easier to find the authors who are doing what it is you want to read, and obtaining the books is at the click of a button...."

I couldn't agree more. I've almost always lived out in the country. As a kid during the 60's, 70's & even the 80's, access to books was severely limited. I tried to find all the books in 2 trilogies for over a decade - all I could find was the 2d book of each. (The Silent Warrior trilogy by Modesitt & Anthony's Battle Circle trilogy. The worst part was the 2d book was the best of each, by far.) Talk about frustrating!

The only library we had semi-regular access to in the 60's was the school's library & a book mobile that came by every 2 weeks - IF Mom wasn't too busy to take me. Libraries didn't share as much between themselves then (we had an abridged card catalog to choose from) & the librarians were very judgmental about what was appropriate for kids to read. Few others liked to read fantasy & SF, too. I used to treasure the rare occasions when we'd go into a bigger town where there was a book store.

I still clearly remember buying my first copy of the Hobbit & the LoTR. I think it was 1969 or 70. I had some money from my birthday - a whole $5, a huge amount for me, a 10 year old back then - & they were available for $1.25 each. I waited in line & got to the counter only to find out I didn't have sales tax - another quarter - & had to run to find Mom to beg that off of her.

So anyone that bemoans what's available now is a whiner!   ;-)  

Seriously, there's never been such a wealth of books available to us. A lot of it might be dreck, but it always has been. With a good set of friends here on GR & a cheap ereader, anyone can read to their heart's content even on a small budget.

I still say that the "generic" fantasy books isn't something to apologize for. I loved them when I was younger and still get in the mood for them from time to time...
And I forgot to mention that another influence for thses books were the sword and sorcery books that came out after LOTR but before the eighties.

Traci wrote: "I still say that the "generic" fantasy books isn't something to apologize for. I loved them when I was younger and still get in the mood for them from time to time...
And I forgot to mention that a..."

I think this is important too. I was into the gateway drug books in the eighties, which is when they were coming out. My reading and tastes have branched out a lot since then, but I remember loving some of those books (Eddings particularly comes to mind) when I was a younger teenager.

Some of those eighties books I can read again and still love - the stories and my nostalgia make them hold up for me. Some I absolutely can't.

But I've kept my copies of several of them (again, the Eddings comes to mind) beacause I have a 7 year old son who is an avid reader. I'll be offering him some of those books as his own gateway drugs as he gets a bit older. They may not be what I want to read now, but they still have their place.

Traci wrote: "David Eddings, R.A. Salvatore, Robert Jordan, Terry Goodkind,...
IMO, you can add these writers. It was a style of writing popular in the eighties and nineties that was heavily influenced by Tolkie..."

Ya, Salvatore and Goodkind seem to be right, even though I haven't read them. Eddings I'm not sure counts, since he is meant for children IMO. He is a good start for fantasy for a kid, just so you know the typical fantasy template and when you get older, you than read the more complex stuff and recognize the tropes being played with.
Jordan does have the typical plot but I think he has some more complex elements as well.

Sheriffkilla wrote: "...Eddings I'm not sure counts, since he is meant for children IMO. He is a good start for fantasy for a kid..."

I have to take exception to that statement. My wife & I loved Eddings' Belgariad & Elenium & read them as they came out. Our kids were born during that decade & we'd been raised reading the LoTR, Zelazny & such. So, I disagree that his writing is for kids & it bugs me when I hear people express that opinion. We read what we enjoy when we find it.

There are more similarities than differences, IMO. I don't think Eddings' characters are any more or less 2D than Tolkien's & the story is about as complex, although Tolkien has a far richer world. Tolkien's style adds a grace that Eddings lacks, but I felt the latter had characters I could connect to better. I can't imagine Aragorn & Arwen sneaking off for a quickie or Gandalf getting the trots. The style raises them above such human frailties, dehumanizes them. Not necessarily a bad thing, just different.

Both have a simplistic good-bad theme, unlike Wurts' 'Light & Shadow' where there isn't any sterling character, just a bunch of very real humans doing their best & screwing up wholesale. Neither of the two is the wordsmith that Zelazny was nor did they have his ability for subtle humor. Both were chary of their main characters & resolved their stories, unlike George R.R. Martin's 'Fire & Ice'. Neither paid any attention to resources or economies the way Modesitt does in all his books. He's another that's done a great job of flipping good versus evil situations around.

It comes down to what kind of fantasy you like. Do you want real world characters or perfect (good or bad) people? Do you want good versus evil or societies almost as complex as our own where what seems good can turn into evil & vice versa? Are you in the mood for an easy, earthy style or high toned writing? The only right answer or 'better' writing - in these cases, IMO* - is up to the individual reader. Whatever works for them at the time is right.

*There is plenty of poor writing out there & that cancels all of the above. That transcends style, characterization & all the rest. For instance, as much as I loved Stasheff's The Warlock in Spite of Himself, his later books were so poorly written I couldn't read them. Eddings later books weren't nearly as well written as his earlier ones, either. His best written book wasn't fantasy at all, but The Losers, as I recall, although it's been a lot of years.

Jim wrote: "Sheriffkilla wrote: "...Eddings I'm not sure counts, since he is meant for children IMO. He is a good start for fantasy for a kid..."

I have to take exception to that statement. My wife & I loved..."

If we had a 'like' button in comment threads, I'd push it. I agree with Jim and many other posters. There is so much out there now that a reader can find books that tailor to their tastes.

I'm glad that we have such a huge variety in styles and subject. I like reading the older works and also the newer ones. Just because I like a book, though, doesn't mean everyone else will like that book. It's great to be able to choose what one can read. Then if you don't like a book, no one is forcing you to finish it.

Hmm . . . the last thing I read with elves or dwarves was one of the Discworld books by Terry Pratchett, and his are certainly not the typical fantasy.

Still, I think any kind of fantasy can be appealing or can get old depending on where and when you dive in. If you've never read classic sword and sorcery fantasy, the newer takes on it won't seem so cookie-cutter.

Jim wrote: "Sheriffkilla wrote: "...Eddings I'm not sure counts, since he is meant for children IMO. He is a good start for fantasy for a kid..."

I have to take exception to that statement. My wife & I loved..."

I didn't say Eddings sucks. I just said his novels were written for a younger audience. I like Shrek 1 and 2 a lot but it's still a kid's movie..

No matter what kind of fantasy you like, you can find it now. There's your typical farmboy makes good, there's your anitheroes, there's your destiny oriented, action oriented, magic oriented, elves and orcs, strange invented creatures in unique worlds, fantasy based on maths, magical systems galore, romantic and more erotic type themes involved. All you have to do is look. The spectrum is broader and more appealing than it's ever been with quite a few gems by many authors. What you like may not be what a next person likes. Take me for example. I love WoT, ASOIaF, Mistborn, WoK, Night Angel Trilogy. Just to name a few. All those I've enjoyed as much or more than I've enjoyed Tolkien. There isn't a single book or series that doesn't have its down points. The question is what you love and what works for you.