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carol. 's Reviews > Night Watch

Night Watch by Terry Pratchett
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really liked it
bookshelves: fantasy, my-library-kindle, classic
Read 2 times. Last read December 22, 2021 to December 24, 2021.

In one timeline, I read this in 2015 and it was a total miss even though I had an affection for the character of Sam Vines. It quite possibly had to do with an attempt I was making to understand Pratchett and appreciate him as much as his fans do by reading the series in order.

In another timeline, 2021 to be exact, I started re-reading with an enthusiastic book buddy, trading off a hyper-Pratchett-esque indy book that was exhausting me with Three Stooges antics and fourth wall-breaking asides.

In the second timeline, a mere six chronological years, one pandemic, and approximately four hundred emotional decades later, I realized what a lovely--yes, you read that right, I called Pratchett 'lovely'--meditation on aging, responsibility, consequences, and history this was. It is very much a swan song of a book, an ode to prior characters who often make brief but important appearances, whether in their young or aged selves. It is a book that will no doubt land better with the aged reader who can viscerally feel Vimes' perspective:

"You’re not me, he thought. I don’t think I was ever as young as you. If you’re going to be me, it’s going to take a lot of work. Thirty damn years of being hammered on the anvil of life, you poor bastard. You’ve got it all to come."

I realized as I was reading Pratchett that my earlier book was so focused on being funny that it failed to contrast or highlight with an emotional counter-point. Here, Pratchett has the occasional extreme such as farcical bragging or ridiculous incompetence, but also contains all these other emotional notes and sad histories.

Surprisingly, there's also quite a bit about political unrest and revolutions, particularly unsettling in its accuracy to a tumultuous 2020.

“No. The *protest* was over the price of bread, said Vimes’s inner voice. The riot was what happens when you have panicking people trapped between idiots on horseback and other idiots shouting “yeah, right!� and trying to push forward, and the whole thing in the charge of a fool advised by a maniac with a steel rule.�

Bringing to mind all the protests of 2020.

"People said things like “Quite possibly we shall never know the truth� which meant, in Vimes’s personal lexicon, “I know, or think I know what the truth is, and hope like hell it doesn’t come out, because things are all smoothed over now.�

Bringing to mind the lack of accountability post insurrection.

But the most insightful commentary on politics was yet to come:

“Vimes had spent his life on the streets and had met decent men, and fools, and people who’d steal a penny from a blind beggar, and people who performed silent miracles or desperate crimes every day behind the grubby windows of little houses, but he’d never met The People.

People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed, in any case. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. And so, the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn’t that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people.

As soon as you saw people as things to be measured, they didn’t measure up.�


If that doesn't say something about all groups, than you didn't read it very well.

A quite excellent, if occasionally melancholic re-read, at least from the 2021 timeline perspective. May we all return to the timeline where there's someone we love (but I'll pass on the baby).


Many, many thanks to Nataliya, her enthusiasm and her insights!

The first timeline review: (spoiler for length, not actual spoilers. (view spoiler)
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Reading Progress

May 4, 2015 – Started Reading
May 4, 2015 – Shelved
May 8, 2015 – Finished Reading
December 22, 2021 – Started Reading
December 24, 2021 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-42 of 42 (42 new)

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message 1: by Beth (new) - added it

Beth If nothing else, your review calls the lie to people who say that you can grab any ol' Discworld book.


message 2: by [deleted user] (last edited May 11, 2015 07:17AM) (new)

This was a book where I got bored with Discworld and never looked back.


carol. Beth--I agree. I think at the very least, one needs to make an effort at starting at the beginning of the sub-series. Since the world has about 40 book, I think true fans have been reading a loooong time and forget how much they know about it.

Evgeny--I was never that impressed, but I remember liking the Same Vines book(s) I read in the past. On the whole, though, they mostly miss me.


Carly I think you can get away with reading the previous books in the subseries, but despite my belief in reading things in library availability order, not even I think this one can be read on its own. But I think you can get away with the 4-book subseries. Otherwise, it's like trying to start the Castor books with Thicker Than Water, or starting Narnia with Last Battle, or TDF with Ghost Story. If you don't already know the characters, there's got to be a lot of wtf when you meet their past selves.
Sorry it didn't work for you.


carol. No worries. It was a particular disappointment bc it was a group read and fans kept insisting it stood alone. It was less 'wtf' than 'I think the author is trying to be portentous but I don't know how.'


Carly Heh. I'll be pn the lookout for general portentousness.
Well, I'd say over half the cast are known from other books in the subseries. So while running into Young CMOT Dibbler or Reg Shoe is pretty much fanservice if you've read the subseries, it's 'why is this random character popping up' otherwise.
Odd choice for the group read...I would have suggested a true standalone, like Monstrous Regiment or Going Postsl. And even then, I'm not surprised Pratchett isn't a great fit for you in particular.

....btw, did you know the next book is called Thud, or was it an amusing coincidence?


carol. Re: portentousness: For instance, I could tell that the spy was supposed to be significant (as was the madam??) but it wasn't until the end that I understood. Even so, I felt like I was missing a backstory as to why it was worth following.

Yes, I have a love-hate relationship with group reads. I remember liking the one or two Sam Vines when I read them a million years ago, basically disliking the DEATH one after about six chapters (repetitive), and sort of liking the witch ones (I remember the Phantom of the Opera spoof). He's vaguely amusing in the right mood, but not my optimal read. I can't say that too loudly, though :)

I can't remember how I knew about Thud! Maybe seeing others' reviews? So I then looked it up to make sure it was a title.


carol. And, hey! Nice to see you again!


Carly Yeah, that's a case of who, I think...it's a cameo appearance of a character who is very significant in the other books.
Meh. I just realized there's also a dependency on Thief of Time. Admittedly I hadn't read it when I first read this and no great harm done ot my experience, but there it is.

Cheers...I'm around, usually read thru my feed once a week or so. I hope you're enjoying your general book haul more than this one.


Carolyn Coulter I agree that this book does not stand alone. If you don't know this series, then yes, you won't enjoy it as much as die hard fans. Those of us who have devoured everything Pratchett wrote the minute it came out will. It also helps to be a fan of the Vimes/Watch books. If you are, this is a great addition. I happen to be both so this book was awesome for me.


Barbara Brien Interestingly, this was my favorite of the Vimes / Watch arc - until Thud! came out, now Thud! is my absolute favorite. Maybe you have to grow with Vimes to get some of the subtext; I know Thud! wasn't my favorite until the second time I read it.


message 12: by Ms. Smartarse (last edited Dec 12, 2017 12:07AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ms. Smartarse I'm inclined to think that not reading all previous City Watch books (in order) is a big part of not liking it. I'm still not finished with it, but a lot of its appeal stems from cameos of recurring characters (eg: Nobby, Reg Shoe, and my personal favorite young Vetinari).

I read Thud! as my first novel of this sub-series, and found it rather meh! as well. I eventually decided to read all the City Watch books in order, and it made a HUGE! difference.
I haven't (yet) reread Thud!, but I'm thinking of doing so, if only to see how differently I perceive it now.

I'm still on half-way through this one here, but I love all of Vimes' keen mob-psychology and dark humour. Granted, there's plenty of it that also leaves me completely baffled. :P


carol. Ah, Ms. Smartarse, thanks for sharing your experience with both the book and the series. I'm glad City Watch went better the second time through. I'm sure reading more quickly in order (instead of months/years apart) would work better for me as well.

I confess, most of the time Pratchett eludes me. Is it the Britishness? The obvious allegories? I don't know. I did like the Guards the best out of all I read, perhaps because it plays so well with the Band of Misfits trope I enjoy (see also Phule's Company).


Ms. Smartarse Hah, to be fair, I did actually read the books several months and years apart... but, at least I had a continuity. Granted, it also helps that I started reading them after I took up reviewing, so I'd get to reread my reviews here to jump-start my memory about certain happenings. :P


carol. Isn't that the truth, that the ol' memory needs a little 'jump-start' sometimes? I hate it when I find my really old reviews that were very short, because sometimes it isn't enough to remember the whys.


Diane Cranson I think too that if people read Pratchett because they expect humourous writing, they'll be disappointed, or at least nonplussed. Sure, there's plenty of humour, however I think Pratchett is a great observer of human behaviour and a great satirist. He's been compared with great satirists like Swift and Dickens, and I agree. I also think of him as being similar to Shakespeare. He's extremely skilful at holding up a mirror to life, but in an extremely humanist (if that's a word) way.


Ritesh Kukrety *nods agreement with what Diane Cranson says*
*Googles the word humanist and notes down Google says it's fine. Kurt Vonnegut is also a humanist*
*Rages silently at 'Vines'*


Left Coast Justin Splat.


Nataliya Ah, Justin, she’s rereading it now. Her not liking it before was a glitch in the Matrix. It shall be rebooted now.


message 20: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo Sorry to see this! I haven't made it this far #29 yet.


message 21: by Alfy (new)

Alfy I’m a big fan of the Discworld novels, have been soft a long time, and I have to say, I found Nightwatch to be unbearably boring.

It’s not all great in these series, I think there’s a golden age of the Discworld sandwiched between the rather inelegant beginnings and the overly self-referential latter novels, and the buns of that sandwich should really be left to the forgiving fans.


Melindam I am glad you gave this another chance and enjoyed it at that. :)


Michelle F Hooray for enthusiastic buddy-readers! Pratchett is fannntastic. I’m so glad you enjoyed this go-around :)


message 24: by Dan (new) - rated it 4 stars

Dan Schwent Four hundred emotional decades later is right. Old Pratch really understood people.


message 25: by Nataliya (last edited Jan 18, 2022 12:18PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nataliya Oh Carol, this review is perfect. Lovely, one may say. “Four hundred emotional decades later� � isn’t that so sadly true. (And on that note, I’m very thankful for gnat other book providing comparisons here; it was good for something!)

Terry Pratchett really *got* people, didn’t he?


carol. Nataliya wrote: "Ah, Justin, she’s rereading it now. Her not liking it before was a glitch in the Matrix. It shall be rebooted now."

Alternate timeline 😁😂


carol. Alfred wrote: "Sorry to see this! I haven't made it this far #29 yet."

Don't do it! That was part of my mistake in the first timeline. Just read in groups of subject/theme--Death, Granny, Sam Vines.


carol. Alfy wrote: "I’m a big fan of the Discworld novels, have been soft a long time, and I have to say, I found Nightwatch to be unbearably boring.
.."


That's okay! I think at my advanced age, and with the resonance from our very own attempts at riots and revolutions in America this past year, it had a lot of pertinent thoughts.


carol. Michelle F wrote: "Hooray for enthusiastic buddy-readers! Pratchett is fannntastic. I’m so glad you enjoyed this go-around :)"

Thanks, Michelle! It was lovely to have Nataliya cueing me in on some series references, etc.


carol. Dan wrote: "Four hundred emotional decades later is right. Old Pratch really understood people."

He really did.

The last six chronological years was a very, very long time. Dog years didn't even begin to cover it.


carol. Nataliya wrote: "Oh Carol, this review is perfect. Lovely, one may say. “Four hundred emotional decades later� � isn’t that so sadly true. "

Ha! Thanks for appreciating my little 'lovely' reference. And thanks again for being such a stellar reading buddy~


message 32: by Sarah (new) - added it

Sarah Such a thoughtful review, Carol. Adding to my list -


message 33: by Beth (new) - added it

Beth I've been trudging through the series in order off and on for a few years, #10 being next. At least six of them didn't bring on a response more enthusiastic than "yep, that was a book I read, all right." Reading reviews like this makes it very tempting to skip to the ones my friends say are half-decent.


Erika Pensaert Ah yes, the People 🙂
I'll definitely reread this one soon.


Morphing_kashi I am glad you enjoyed it more the second time around. Was tempted to unlike your review so I could like it again.


carol. Beth wrote: "I've been trudging through the series in order off and on for a few years, #10 being next. At least six of them didn't bring on a response more enthusiastic than "yep, that was a book I read, all r..."

Beth, your experience sounds like mine. I found the Sam Vines books most entertaining. I tried the in-order and that was a bust. But I definitely liked this more as a one-off than trying to make it part of a set. Best of luck!


carol. Morphing_kashi wrote: "I am glad you enjoyed it more the second time around. Was tempted to unlike your review so I could like it again."

Sweet, Morphing_kashi. Thank you!


carol. Erika wrote: "Ah yes, the People 🙂
I'll definitely reread this one soon."


Lots of really good nuggets in here!

Sarah wrote: "Such a thoughtful review, Carol. Adding to my list -"
Thank you, Sarah! I hope you enjoy it.


message 39: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo The effect a pandemic and several years of hindsight can have on re-reads...


carol. Yes. Profound.


message 41: by Bee (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bee Ahh Carol I'm so glad you sunk your teeth into this gem. It is my all time favorite of his. It catches me right between the ribs. Such dark commentary in such a dark time. The laughs make for a soothing balm as the blade snicks the skin.


carol. I can see why, Bee! A lovely way to describe your reaction to it.


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