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Mike's Reviews > Sin City Volume 1: The Hard Goodbye

Sin City Volume 1 by Frank Miller
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Thematic BuddyRead with that gang we shouldn’t even be admitting to belonging to (but somehow proudly emblazon it wherever we go), the .

Criteria: An embarrassing amount of jugs on display

Yes, Miller had a real talent for drawing...


[Composition]


[it's almost balletic]

...even if he spent a remarkable amount of time focusing on the female nipple...














[I mean, seriously Frank. Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]

And no, I can't approve of the throwback-to-unapologetic-misogyny times.





For the most part this is less "great noir homage" (cf. Brubaker/Phillips) and more "cliche-ridden tripe" - he executes the basic maneuvers but lacks any finesse:





Given that Miller in Act One, bathes women in the Male Gaze and zealously populates the 'world' with distasteful caricatures of 'independent' women, it's hard to believe Miller sees women as a species as equal to men, or ever would put in the effort to portray them as such.

(Note: there's only one type of woman who's worth respect, the nurse:)


[spoiler: Miller's mother was a nurse]

I ask this question every once in a while, 'cause I'm genuinely curious: if a writer consistently and deeply takes on a slur/bigotry-ridden tone in their writing, is that just an ironic distance thing, or do they actually enjoy embodying and proliferating this kind of prejudice and hatred? Every writer has a blank canvas upon which to spatter their imagination - if they continue to choose a specific subject matter time after time, is that choice, compulsion or just random chance?

I ask the same thing of Garth Ennis, who 'liberally' garnishes his hilarious writing with homophobic slurs. It makes me pause when I keep coming across this kind of streak (and with Ennis, it's a lifelong thing). In his case, he's a good enough writer (see some of his less-exaggerated over the top works to get my meaning) that it makes me wonder whether he's being ironic/holding up a mirror to society, or if he's just a bigot and enjoys expressing it. Occam's Razor or artistic commentary?

Looking at the twisted wreck of a man that Miller became in later life (the later books like All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder, Vol. 1 & Holy Terror, his ), and comparing it to the dark/fascist hints in his earlier works, it's hard for me not believe that the later man was always in Miller and just was amplified after 9/11 - set free to fully embrace his angry/fearful/under-empathetic personality.

IIRC, in later Sin City books, the best a woman can be is the gang of murderous prostitutes.

Marv on the other hand is Miller's libertarian ideal: the ubermensch, fighting against the forces of order and oppression, overcoming them all with the super-strength and iron resolve of a Man who knows he's right when all others say he's wrong.

Marv looks like just a twisted, flat copy of Batman - the Batman Miller wanted to write, the Batman he's finally fully realized years later in Holy Terror:






[Put a pointy cowl on the guy and give him a giant penny]

Are there people in the world like Marv? Or Goldie? Or the dirty cops, or prostitutes, or Angry unsanctioned racist not-batman? Of course. Welcome to a planet of 7 billion. I guess that makes Miller an historian, a sociologist, a cartographer of the disgusting wasteland of humanity.

Very egalitarian and progressive of you Professor Miller.

Is Miller notable in comics history? Of course. He's taken steps that dragged comics out of the technicolor 70's and into the dark 80's. We gained an art form that took on adult levels of anger, violence and sad disappointment.

Does he deserve a place on the current shelf of "best comics creators"? That's for each of us to decide. Not hard to see where I stand on the matter, but I'd be an ass to assume mine is the only opinion that matters.

At least the climactic confrontations were fun.



Four stars for some generally great art, minus two stars for a sad little tale from a sad little shell of a man, aspiring to become the more powerful, brave, righteous, merciless man that he drew.
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Reading Progress

September 10, 2016 – Started Reading
September 10, 2016 – Shelved
September 17, 2016 – Finished Reading
September 18, 2016 –
page 208
100.0% "ooof."
September 20, 2016 – Shelved as: re-read
September 20, 2016 – Shelved as: creator-owned
September 20, 2016 – Shelved as: unintentionally-hilarious
September 20, 2016 – Shelved as: more-miserable-than-i-forgot-it-was

Comments Showing 1-18 of 18 (18 new)

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message 1: by Jeff (new) - added it

Jeff Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]

This is why the nudie pen is timeless...


Mike Jeff wrote: "Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]

This is why the nudie pen is timeless..."


Hasn't it worn out or broken by now? That death grip isn't easy to keep under control during...moments.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Am I the only one that feels trippy as balls right now


Anne Jeff wrote: "Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]

This is why the nudie pen is timeless..."


You stole my line!


message 5: by Jeff (new) - added it

Jeff Kat Stark wrote: "Am I the only one that feels trippy as balls right now"

Yes. Yes you are.


message 6: by Jeff (new) - added it

Jeff Anne wrote: "Jeff wrote: "Porn wasn't *that* hard to acquire in the 80's...]

This is why the nudie pen is timeless..."

You stole my line!"


You keep stealing my Pinterest pictures...


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

you have a pinterest?!


message 8: by Jeff (new) - added it

Jeff Anne lured me there with promises of Power Girl gifs....


Jedhua Ouch. Well sorry I recommended this, Mike. By now, I think I've learned enough about your tastes than to make such a mistake a second time. But since it clearly seems you're not much of a Miller fan � apparently even less than I am � I would be curious to know if you still stand behind your 5-star rating of . And if so, why? Was it really *that* much better than this?


message 10: by Mike (new) - rated it 2 stars

Mike Jedhua wrote: "But since it clearly seems you're not much of a Miller fan � apparently even less than I am � I would be curious to know if you still stand behind your 5-star rating of The Dark Knight Returns . And if so, why? Was it really *that* much better than this?"

I don't exactly know what to do with that. My original review (and early-teenage lasting impressions) are like a vestigial tail of my early comics reading life. Do I go back and revise my ratings for similarly-aging reviews? Do I risk alienating yet another remaining contingent of comics folks I like that aren't on board with conflating "artist and art", or who rate comics based on how they'd respond to them now, vs how they originally liked them?

I still very much know I'm *affected* by DKR - it left an indelible impression - but I find it exhausting and sometimes uncomfortable to read, for reasons I'd have a hard time articulating without sounding like some namby-pamby SJW-wannabe. It's exhausting constantly defending my opinions that distasteful people's art is just hard for me to read, and when folks like Sam attack me and try to force me to admit I'm just a prat in adult's clothing, I feel like giving up because there's no way to convince someone who *wants* to believe I'm an ass (and attacking one of their precious beloved treasures) that my opinion is just as valid as theirs, *and* doesn't threaten their right to have their own different opinion. Sorry Sam, but the last comment on that Miller review does nothing to engage me, mostly puts me off the whole damned discussion.


message 11: by Jedhua (last edited Sep 23, 2016 04:39PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jedhua Mike wrote: "Jedhua wrote: "But since it clearly seems you're not much of a Miller fan � apparently even less than I am � I would be curious to know if you still stand behind your 5-star rating of The Dark Knig..."

Sounds like you might be getting me confused with Sam, bro; and I hope I'm not reading too much into the comment and mistaking your (perhaps understandable) exasperation with defensiveness by saying this. Now I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I know the guy very well, but he does seem like he could be a little confrontational � or at least legitimately perceived so through his word choice. But I suspect what's similar about the two of us is that we're not afraid to challenge people's opinions, and love to engage in these kinds of artistic disputes. And I can't speak for Sam, but I'm personally someone who doesn't tire very easily during the course of debate, so I can truck on indefinitely � at least up until the point where I figure the other party is becoming hopelessly hostile, defensive, or egotistical. I don't get the impression most people are built this way, so I figure I'm probably very weird in this regard.

However, I remember in a comment for your review of Incognito, you said to me (and I quote): "Keep the genuine responses coming, and bring a good snark game. We play touch football style around here." So I read that to mean you felt similarly about constructive criticism and critical discourse. I don't mean to harass or bore you, Mike, but just know that I do have some thoughts about both you and Sam's comments, and see some problems with both. And by now I hope it goes without saying that I'm willing and eager to share them if either you or Sam are interested.


message 12: by Anne (new) - rated it 4 stars

Anne Didn't we have a similar discussion in the clubhouse about art vs artist? I came down firmly on Mike's side (if I find the artist despicable I can't enjoy their work), but several of our friends said they were able to disengage their personal feelings and just take the work for what it was.
I recently read (for the 1st time) TDKR, and thought it was pretty good. I imagine if I had read it years ago, I would have loved it.


message 13: by Mike (new) - rated it 2 stars

Mike Yeah, I was mostly talking aloud dude, sorry if I seemed on the attack. I have no good answer to leaving the 5-star on DKR (the unemotional side of me says it would only rate 2-3 stars according to my current standards of comics I look forward to reading - somewhat like the "Going Out The Door" test that Sims and Wilson apply to comics in their War Rocket Ajax podcast) (and the "tired of being lambasted for shitting on the Gods of classic comics" side of me just wants to not draw attention to myself without a long drawn-out and probably hard-to-justify rationale).

I'm usually pretty indifferent to people's derision of me, but (1) your opinion is worth earning and (2) my opinion of Miller, Moore and other ancients of the art form is pretty shallow/disrespectful to the point where people yell at me for not getting down on my knees and blowing them just on principle.


message 14: by Jedhua (last edited Sep 23, 2016 06:29PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jedhua Mike wrote: "Yeah, I was mostly talking aloud dude, sorry if I seemed on the attack. I have no good answer to leaving the 5-star on DKR (the unemotional side of me says it would only rate 2-3 stars according to..."

What exactly do you mean when you say my opinion is "worth earning?" Maybe I'm confused or something, but how does one earn an opinion (grammatically speaking)?


message 15: by Mike (new) - rated it 2 stars

Mike I respect your opinion


Jedhua Mike wrote: "Yeah, I was mostly talking aloud dude, sorry if I seemed on the attack. I have no good answer to leaving the 5-star on DKR (the unemotional side of me says it would only rate 2-3 stars according to..."

Well I'm glad to hear you say that � objectively speaking � TDKR is probably somewhere in the ballpark of The Hard Goodbye in terms of rating. That sounds reasonable and consistent, so that alone addresses most of what I wanted to say. But I have one last question for you (and Anne?), because this whole debate about artist vs art seems a bit confusing. For me, a reviewer should be allowed and expected to express (rather than "disengage") personal feelings in their reviews, because anything less would fundamentally miss the point of the reviewing process. The only danger of personal feelings comes in when your perception of the genre or writer causes you to judge an aspect of their work before you can finish it and look at the picture fairly and holistically. The fact that Miller is an asshole has no intrinsic bearing on the quality of The Hard Goodbye or any of his other books as *standalone* works of fiction. But as an asshole, he's of course more likely to reflect distasteful themes in his books, which in turn could separately diminish each of them in quality.

Looking across Miller's work, his propensity toward pronounced machismo, misogyny, and female objectification should be undeniable. Some of his books are more blatant than others, and people will naturally vary in their sensitivity/enjoyment toward these characteristics. From where I'm sitting, this review brings to light several examples of all three characteristics shown in this *particular* book, so your (Mike's) own general disgust with Miller really didn't even come into it. So while I don't think anyone should expect writers to entirely avoid portraying these negative subjects in their writing simply because they're frowned upon � since they all occupy an important place in the world around us, and are worthy of exploration � the presentation certainly still matters. And not just in a moral sense, but in an artistically critical sense as well.


message 17: by Mike (new) - rated it 2 stars

Mike Fair enough Jedhua, and on the basis I didn't feel worse about myself after reading your response, I've copypasta'd my thoughts over to that review and slammed the rating back to the floor where it belongs in my catalogue. Thanks!


Jedhua Mike wrote: "Fair enough Jedhua, and on the basis I didn't feel worse about myself after reading your response, I've copypasta'd my thoughts over to that review and slammed the rating back to the floor where it..."

Just glad I could help you sort that one out, Mike.


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