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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day's Reviews > The Idiot
The Idiot
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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day's review
bookshelves: fiction, reviewed
Oct 03, 2011
bookshelves: fiction, reviewed
There are many reviews of this book making out that Prince Myshkin was Christ-like, a truly good man who lived for the moment. A holy idiot, or more accurately, wholly idiot indeed is what he really was. Why did they think Dostoyevsky entitled the book, The Idiot if he meant 'The Man who was Innocent and Really Good" or "The Man who was like Jesus"? The title wasn't any kind of irony, it was about an idiot.
Prince Myshkin had spent years in a sanitarium for his epilepsy and returns to Russia where he trusts untrustworthy people, falls for all their plots where he is the patsy, and falls in love with a rather uppity girl who returns his affections and then when it comes to the moment, chooses another woman for all the wrong reasons and thereby ends up rejected by both.
He is the very definition of an idiot, he never, ever learns and what intelligence he has he doesn't put to working out the truth of a situation and what he should do to benefit himself. He always falls for the next plot, the next plan, the next person with a glint in their eye for how they can use him to further their own ends. And he goes just like a lamb to the slaughter.
Sadly, the debacle, written in a time when not even the word 'neurology' had been invented, let alone the science, is rather idiotic. On getting drawn into a crime committed by a man mad in every sense, crazy and angry, his epilepsy degenerates into a mental illness so deep he crosses over into another land. Bye bye gentle idiot. I was glad to read of you, I'm glad I didn't know you.
Prince Myshkin had spent years in a sanitarium for his epilepsy and returns to Russia where he trusts untrustworthy people, falls for all their plots where he is the patsy, and falls in love with a rather uppity girl who returns his affections and then when it comes to the moment, chooses another woman for all the wrong reasons and thereby ends up rejected by both.
He is the very definition of an idiot, he never, ever learns and what intelligence he has he doesn't put to working out the truth of a situation and what he should do to benefit himself. He always falls for the next plot, the next plan, the next person with a glint in their eye for how they can use him to further their own ends. And he goes just like a lamb to the slaughter.
Sadly, the debacle, written in a time when not even the word 'neurology' had been invented, let alone the science, is rather idiotic. On getting drawn into a crime committed by a man mad in every sense, crazy and angry, his epilepsy degenerates into a mental illness so deep he crosses over into another land. Bye bye gentle idiot. I was glad to read of you, I'm glad I didn't know you.
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Comments Showing 1-50 of 78 (78 new)
message 1:
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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day
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rated it 4 stars
Jan 23, 2012 06:18AM
I don't think I'm literary enough to notice the difference between translations but thanks for the tip, I'll keep it in mind for the future.
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one of the very few books i stopped without completing... the guilt still gnaws me.
"... the guilt still gnaws me."Lol, that made me snork my coffee.
Here we go again. Another Christian comment by someone who just joined and has only added books today, has made no comment anywhere but makes straight for this book to leave me his Christian opinion. Jeeez... Trolls!
Where's the crazy Christian? :(
I am wondering the same thing as Capsguy
message 7:
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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day
(last edited Mar 10, 2012 02:21PM)
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rated it 4 stars
I just delete him/her and their remarks all the time. I don't feel like giving them a forum. The troll likes to write on quite a few of my reviews. I don't have a very big list of friends and I didn't think this remark would be seen outside of it - most of them know about the troll.
Why doesn't anyone want to troll me? :(
LOL
That's what Dostoyevsky meant by this title: how mediocre minds look at the really pure, kind and innocent person and call him an idiot because they just aren't able to understand him and his beautiful soul. And he IS a Christ-like character.
Nice to know you'd rather delete my comment than have a dialogue, Petra X. I'm not a Christian, I'm open-minded and willing to see the book from the perspective it was meant to be seen. Why do you think there was so much religious imagery throughout the novel? Stop treating Christianity like a disease that should be ignored at all costs, it just makes you come off as closed-minded as the worst religious extremists.
Dasha says it well. I don't remember quite what I said, but know this: there are people you know or whom you may ignore who know more about you than you'll ever know about yourself, but because you're too caught up in how they appear on the surface (perhaps because they're Christian, or a "pushover"), you don't take the time to appreciate their insight. Let that thought sink in. You've probably run into some Myshkins in your life.
Why did you even pick up a Dostoyevsky novel if you weren't willing to contemplate it philosophically? Fyodor would make a point to shout your ears off if he were alive to read this.
here's a point that i'd particularly like you to consider, "Sam": WHY DON'T YOU STOP HARRASSING PETRA BECAUSE YOU ARE COMING ACROSS AS A FUCKING CREEP. you seem like an intelligent and sensitive sort. surely you understand that people should feel free to state their opinions in a review, and elsewhere, and not feel as if they are being harrassed because of those opinions. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ENGAGE WITH YOU. simple as that. is that truly so hard to understand? must you force yourself into a situation where you are clearly not wanted? the world is a big place... can't you find other things to occupy your time?
I really must get round to reading this book. In terms of the debate about purity, Christlikeness and the like; I am with Petra here. There is a significant difference between innocence and stupidity. Even the Jesus of the Bible was not a nice or trusting person because he appeared to understand human nature, he was self aware; not stupid. Petra is right; Dostoyevsky was I think satirising the holy fool figures which Russia had a surfeit of at that time. So Sam; if we are having a debate about what Fyodor would have said if he read this review; in my opinion he would have pressed the like button on Petra's review. Sam, if you think Petra's review does not contemplate the novel in a philosophical way, then in my opinion you have a limited and inadequate view of what philosophy actually is.Dasha; entering into debate is not about accusing someone of having a mediocre mind and then using the "because I said so" argument. Reasons and reasoning are required.
Sam, I don't think you are in a postion to try psychoanalysis on someone you do not know because the "insights" will have a tendency to say more about you than them.
Great review Petra
Love your reviews. sorry you're being trolled.
Why does this trend keep on? None of the xians come after me, I guess my hostility keeps 'em off, but the folks who think my opinion is wrong have been crawling out of the woodwork this summer. Not all of them trolls like Sam, either, the friends of friends and former friends in goodly number.Don't get it. Sad that it's hitting you when your resistance to foolishness is lowered.
Thanks all for your support.Richard - I think they might be the same people, just a few. Sock puppet accounts.
Trolls and idiots like the two on here (I have deleted pre- and additional comments from both of them although now I wish I'd left them) who insist they are right and have exactly read the mind of the author and everyone else is wrong and needs to be taken to task have a strange view of what reviewing a book is all about.
Why anyone would want to compare Jesus to an idiot who falls for people's schemes and makes all the wrong decisions is beyond me anyway. They can't hold him in very high esteem.
Great review; Mysha nailed.Shame about the troll.
i am going to steal that image Bettie. i think it will come in handy!
Wow, all that over a reasonable, well-written review? I'm sorry you're being hounded, Petra. It's ironic that someone who calls himself "open-minded" seems so dead set against other reviewers bringing their own perspectives to their reading experiences.Also, re: comment #15--one of the many reasons I'm such a fan of mark monday's!
Wendy Darling wrote: "Also, re: comment #15--one of the many reasons I'm such a fan of mark monday's! ..."Mark is the only good Monday! (I wasn't the first to say this but there's no reason I shouldn't quote another fan of his!)
It's not just here. I have one/several commenters who flame me regularly on many reviews. They also bring up Christianity. Often they are just-joined members or old members with like two books, so I wonder who 'they' really are.
Oh yeah, I get trolls all the time. Sometimes it's a newbie with poor social etiquette or a sock puppet, but regardless--it's still the behavior of a jerk. We've all probably said things in the heat of the moment we might regret, but when you've gone on the offensive, there's no excuse anymore when the behavior is both repetitive and insistent.
What do you do with trolls and their comments?
thanks Petra & Wendy! aww, you guys are the best.Petra, as far as what i do with trolls (big caveat: Wendy has far deeper experience with trollish evil than i do... i have much empathy for her and for you on this. and i used to be rather la-di-da about the topic. no longer!)...
one of two things: if they offend me and i am feeling impatient and busy, i just delete each and every one of their comments and respond to none of them; if i am feeling bored and sadistic, i engage in a brutal and personalized war of flames - often involving other GR friends who chime in and including personal messages sent from me to the offender - until finally they run away. sometimes they delete their entire account, to my sick and smug satisfaction.
i don't recommend the later option to you! i am able to call on my Inner Asshole during such times. however i rather doubt that you have an Inner Asshole. which is a good thing!
I'm trying to get better about just deleting comments and moving on, Petra. But as much as I hate to see the nastiness on my reviews, I actually think it's good to have a record, both so fellow GReaders can keep an eye out if they want to avoid people like that, and for sock puppets or fan girls/associates acting on an author's behalf. After I was accused of "bullying" the author, the ridiculous comments on my review of The Selection were helpful documentation on my blog and on GR, so that people could see the timeline of how things unfolded and of my response to the behavior.I block people like a fiend now, though. I never used to, but it's honestly made life a lot easier. You tend to see the same names trolling (one on your Almaty-Transit review) or being unhelpful (I'm sure you can think of a few in the GR feedback forum).
I wish I could be more blase about it all, but I tend to take things to heart, so I'm afraid I get more worked up about trolls than I probably should. And when it comes to friends being bullied, I just can't stand idly by and watch it happen without saying anything.
Mark, by the way, usually dispatches his trolls with the perfect combination of pointy comments and good humor. I've a great deal of admiration for people who can handle things reasonably. I'm afraid there are times when my temper gets the better of me.
message 27:
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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day
(last edited Mar 28, 2013 06:47PM)
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rated it 4 stars
Wendy Darling wrote: "I'm trying to get better about just deleting comments and moving on, Petra. But as much as I hate to see the nastiness on my reviews, I actually think it's good to have a record, both so fellow GRe..."There is another side. I once liked a review and then wrote a comment disagreeing with it. I'm not a troll obviously. A whole bunch of people jumped on me. One after the other, including a moderator whose tag was 'mutherfucker'. They pursued me through groups and threads because they were sticking up for their friend who obviously didn't want anything but high praise for their review. Now some of these people are friendly to me and have offered me the same service, of really bashing anyone as a posse if they should troll me. No thanks. I don't like bullying from either side.
Dan wrote: "Did I come across all harsh about how you treat your furry fluffballs when I am so utterly candyflossy camp about mine? I'm so sowwy, weally I am, and if you just send me your adwess I'm going to send you some ickle pink booties I knitted specially for my Timmy, Tammy and TommyTomTom."Thanks, but no thanks. I find kitties in booties a bit stupid, but we'll have to disagree on that, as well.
Mike wrote: "I'm your second kittie lover! Gosh there are so many of us that just adore our little feline minxes and are happy servants to them. You know when I go fishing I actually save all the heads for my fluffy balls of fun. I bring them home, smelly as they are and I can tell you my little kitkats are just so happy. I'd do anything for them..."Yes. Right. My cat gets kibble, she's fine about that and it doesn't stink up the house like your fish heads!
Why can't this man be Christ-like and an idiot at the same time? ;)
I guess Dostoevsky wasn't as great believer as people say. He often writes about religion, but think about his characters, they are so immoral for Christianity. i think, Dostoevsky can love Christ and anti-Christ at the same time. To my mind, "THE IDIOT" is one of the powerful atheistic book in the world. It tries to show us the face of the real Christian and this real Christian is poor Prince Myshkin.
Analomadze wrote: "Why can't this man be Christ-like and an idiot at the same time? ;)"It is a fair question, but it is also disrespectful. I'm not a Christian (I'm an apatheist) but I don't really want to offend other people and a discussion on the lines of your question might well do so. So that's it .... unless you have more you want to say.
I don't want to offend someone. It's not my idea. To my mind it's Dostoevsky's approach. That's all.
Analomadze wrote: "I don't want to offend someone. It's not my idea. To my mind it's Dostoevsky's approach. That's all."Yes I agree, it is the author's approach and you interpret it one way and I another and that's how it generally is in books with any depth at all.
Great review, I had much thought the same way when reading the book..was so happy yours was the first review I read, it was very funny the way you put it too..loved it,thank you.
message 36:
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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day
(last edited Nov 20, 2013 08:21PM)
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rated it 4 stars
Taf wrote: "Great review, I had much thought the same way when reading the book..was so happy yours was the first review I read, it was very funny the way you put it too..loved it,thank you."That was nice of you. This review has been infested with trolls so a really nice comment made me S*M*I*L*E. Thank you.
Jordan wrote: I suppose you could say that I'm just niave[sp] because I believe that Dostoyevsky made Mishkin an idiot because he didn't like KITTIES. But I know it's the truth. It really is. Mishkin didn't like KITTIES! It's too bad you really couldn't see that at all. I know I'm not supposed to make personal insults here so I'd better say I'm sorry and say it's me, it's me, I'm the idiot..."Well Jordan, after that little display of .... what can I say :-D
Just had another Idiot decide to comment. Someone who is a coward even on the internet and set up a sock puppet account just to comment. What a tit!
message 39:
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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day
(last edited May 25, 2014 07:26AM)
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rated it 4 stars
Within a few minutes of each other two 'people' decided to leave me negative comments. Two sock puppets, or more likely the same person with multiple troll syndrome! One calls me shallow in my interpretation, this from someone whose reviews read like this, "Stupid plot, absolutely ridiculous, lots of errors..." and "Hate this shit" (entire review). The other has proof (they found it on the net)of exactly what Doestoevsky meant, that she knows what he was thinking and therefore I am wrong, wrong, wrong. Funny how there have been so many interpretations of this book in the last 150 years but only she can find proof of what the author was thinking.
I-D-I-O-T-S
@Petra, I am impressed with your ability to retain your sense of humor & that you continue to write intelligent, well thought out reviews. Thank you.
Petra, it still baffles me; all this unreasoning, poorly argued and vitriolic attention that you get. It's an interesting, well-argued and balanced review. Instead of getting well reasoned resposes you get juvenile responses based on insult and personal prejudice. It's very odd.
Hahaha another sock puppet calling themselves "Who" (undoubtedly the same person as the other two sockies this morning) really getting personal. Apparently i am a yellow bowl of custard (euphemism!) for deleting comments. Well Sweetheart, "Who" and all the other names you use in your cowardly fashion because you don't want me to know your REAL screen name and why you are so freaky-deaky over me, this is like stalking you know! You don't have a credible presence on my review space. Therefore you don't have a presence. Byeee
message 43:
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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day
(last edited May 25, 2014 12:56PM)
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rated it 4 stars
Sandi - Protester of Goofreads wrote: "@Petra, I am impressed with your ability to retain your sense of humor..."Ta! Actually, imagining the trolls getting themselves into such a lather about what I have written and nearly falling over themselves in their anxiety to put me right, and let me know what's what, whose who and that they know better is amusing in itself. It certainly isn't upsetting. Some itty-bitty little comment by a self-important person who repeatedly changes their name isn't anything to be taken seriously. Their next step will be to either get another sock puppet account, or find another review of mine to spill bile over. There you go.
@Paul - some people have very little better to do on a Sunday afternoon, they should try reading a book. :-)
I would love to tackle this book some day! I've always been curious to read it. Great review.
Dostoevsky. How in the hell does one manage to get trolled for a 4-star Dostoevsky review? I think you should wear it like a badge of honor. You are one tough .... rock, sister...I mean... Ms. Bubbles Sockie P.
Sheila wrote: "I would love to tackle this book some day! I've always been curious to read it. Great review."It isn't a heavy book Sheila. We aren't talking War & Peace or Tolstoy lecturing us about the peasants here. It's amusing in a OMG Myshkin WAKE UP!!! kind of way.
Sckenda - I got trolled a lot on The Lorax too. Like here, by less people than you think as each one uses multiple sock puppet accounts. Kind of weird to get trolled on not liking a children's book.
I have deleted more trolls than you see here. Also about four or five essays that I can't be bothered to read let alone debate. Obviously they are disagreeing with me, and they might have valid points, but once I see a comment that is two-screens worth of scrolling, forget it, it is the work of someone really obsessed with the book/the review/me. I don't want to get into it with someone like that.
I just can't understand why people can't be respectful with other people's opinions, especially when it comes to something so subjective as literature. Imagine if you were talking politics...hell would break loose! I applaud your stoicism and your courage to speak out, Bubbles. Keep them your reviews rolling and f... the trolls.
Sam wrote: "...willing to see the book from the perspective it was meant to be seen..."Because everyone but Bubbles SockieP just knows exactly what the 19th century author intended?
Hmm...maybe we should also try to be willing to see the review from the perspective it was meant to be seen. A perspective I believe the reviewer means to be "my review of this book is..."
I have no doubt this book has garnered many reviews, both Christian and not, missing the Christian viewpoint or not ...
Please do write your own reviews if you want to disagree with this one.
Sorry you're getting trolled; but, I have to say it is a bit of a switch for it to be happening on a dead author's book.
message 50:
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Petra is wondering when this dawn will beome day
(last edited May 29, 2014 07:49AM)
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rated it 4 stars
D.A. -bully victims suffer more than a star rating on their commercial product wrote: "Sorry you're getting trolled;"I wrote this which might explain why I don't really care about trolls (and occasionally egg them on in the hope they will fall flat on their faces, which they do) but don't like them either.
